General Assembly.

Lyttelton Times, Volume X, Issue 607, 1 September 1858, Page 4

General Assembly.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

Fbiday, July 30, 1858. IN COMMITTEE ON THE TARIFF. The House met at 12 o'clock. Present—the Speaker and 20 members. Mr. Richmond said it would not be necessary to occupy the time of the committee with any elaborate explanation of the nature of the proposed alterations. Tbe tariff of 1856 was meant to be an advance towards the Australian tariffs, of which, as everybody knew, the principle was to raise the whole Customs Revenue from a few specified articles, leaving the unenumerated articles duty free. Under that system, ireedom was the rule, and taxation the exception. It was, however, not possible as yet in this colony fully to adopt that principle, and, in 1856, the tonnage rates had therefore been added, to make up the requisite amount of revenue. These rate 3 had produced in 1857 in round numbers, £33,000 out of £132,000,' or 25 per cent. This was a considerable proportion of the entire Customs Revenue, yet it ought to be regarded as only in aid of the receipts on the specified articles. The present proposition would free from duty all those bulky and less valuable articles upon which the tariff of 1856 had pressed with the greatest severity. But to afford such relief, you must either give up revenue—which the colony could not afford—or an increased stress of taxation must, fall upon some in the list of duty-paying articles. From what articles then could the requisite amount be best raised P In framing a tariff, various, and often opposing considerations had to be adverted to. Your duty should be, if possible, easy of collection, and, as included in this principle, should not be of a nature or amount to offer too strong a temptation to the smuggler. Augmentation of a duty must be kept within such limits as not to defeat its own purpose by checking consumption. As between the several classes of society, taxation should be so adjusted as to throw the greatest burden on those who could best afford to pay, it being a self evident proposition that, whilst superfluity admits retrenchment, a bare subsistence doe 3 not. Fortunately the application of this last principle did not in a young colony present the same difficulties as in old countries. Jack was here as good as his master. As regarded the articles consumed and the ability to pay, the settlers of New Zealand stood very much more on a level than the different classes of English society. Now and then, indeed, men not capable of original thought, and who consequently could do no more then utter certain hackneyed sentiments they had brought from the old country, without reflecting on the utter inapplicability of those notions to our actual state, did raise a parrot cry, and set themselves up as exclusive patrons of the poor man. But the fact was, in the colony, we were all gentlemen. It was no*, necessary in New Zealand to distinguish between class and class. It was, hoAvever, an indubitable principle that luxuries, not necessaries, should bear the brunt of taxation; and in proposing the resolutions now before the committee the Government had steadily kept this principle in vieAv, although the principles to which he had adverted, had, of necessity, limited its application, He would now briefly indicate the nature of the proposed changes, leaving more particular discussion on the several items to be taken as they were read. In lieu of the old tonnage rates of 3s. and Is. per cubic foot, it was intended to create two new classes of dutypaying goods. The first class, comprising silk, cotton, linen, and woollen manufactures, drapery, haberdashery, hosiery, millinery, boot 3 and shoes—(all formerly "subject to the 3s. duty)—-with the addition of oilmen's stores— (formerly subject to the Is. duty)—would be subject to a duty of 4s. per cubic foot, measuring outside the packages. The second class would comprise cutlery, hard-ware, plated ware, hollow-ware, ironmongery of all sorts, and also candles aud soap; and be subject to a duty of 3s. per CAyt. FolloAving the Australian example, the^ free list would comprise - all unenumerated articles, and also a few articles specially excepted from the two duty-paying classes. Agricultural implements, carts and drays, household furniture, glass and earthemvare, ship chandlery, and other goods on which the old tariff had pressed would now be exempt. Of course, the altered tariff would be subject to some of the objections which had been taken to it in its original form. Articles of very different values were included under one head. Silks and blue shirts were still subject to one and the same rate of duty. The reason was, that if the more costly articles in a draper's package were to be charged with rates proportionate to their value, there would be the old evil of summarising, the old vexation of complicated entries, and the certainty of evasions in numerous cases. He believed it was an absurdity to treat these questions as questions between class and class. All classes $ consumed luxuries in this country. Then, if it was not a question between man and man, it was purely ridiculous to talk, as some people did, about the injustice of charging one article with a 'higher duty than another. It was, forsooth, most unjust to a lump of whiting, or a bath brick, to chargo it as much as a clock, or a watch was charged. He now came to the list of specified articles, viz : —Ale, Cigars, Coffee, Spirits, Sugar, Tea, Tobacco, and Wine. Such a free list as the new one conld not be afforded

without increase under other heads. To make good the loss to the Revenue by the changes he had detailed, he proposed to take an additional id. per lb. on sugars, 3d. on tobbacco, Id. on tea, and Id. on coffee. The proposed tax on sugar was higher than that levied at Melbourne and Sydney, but as compared with the taxation of the same articles in the North •American colonies, it was very moderate. [The honorable here cited from the tariffs of Canada, New Brunswick, and Nova Scotia in support of his statement.] It had tbe advantage of bearing very equally on different parts of the colony. It would be found that the North and 'South contributed very equally. These additions, it was calculated, would keep the revenue up to the existing amount. Thus far, then, the Government propositions involved no increase of taxation. They only effected a re-adjust-ment of the old burdens, which would, he believed,be equally acceptable. Butit was absolutely necessary to provide for the construction and repair of barracks, which the Imperial Government had determined to exact from the colony. The estimates they had voted for this purpose, last night, amounted to £5000; and this could only be met by increased taxation, for the Government was not prepared to reduce the proportion of the ordinary revenue payable to the provinces. , Ministers had done their utmost in remonstrating against the imposition of this burden upon the shoulders of this young and struggling community, but in vain. It had been demonstrated to the Home Government that the ordinary revenue of the colony barely sufficed to meet the expenses of the ordinary departments of civil government, including those in charge of the provincial governments. But the Home Government refused to recede, and backed their demand by threatening the withdraAval of the troops. He desired to impress this on the committee, because it was a matter so liable to be misrepresented. Ministers were not coming down with a proposal of increased taxation to meet the cost of their own administration. It was purely this foreign demand which necessitated such a step. The required amount it was proposed to be raised by an addition of Is. per gallon to the duty on spirits. This, on the consumption of 1857, would yield between £6000 and £7000. The Government would gladly have proposed an increase of 2s. per gallon, which would have enabled them to dispense with the greater part of the proposed. addition on sugar, but could not venture to stake the revenue Avholly upon the produce of an increase of duty upon this one article; because he could not shut his eyes to the fact that the smuggler might disappoint their expectations of an increase of revenue, if they so far increased his temptations. Before he sat down, he must say one Avord as to the duty on wines. As to this article, ministers felt that any augmentation of duty from it, tending to limit consumption, would prove illusory as a source of revenue. They would be very glad to increase the charge, and had considered the expediency of adding Is. per gallon; but looking to the present high rate, they were fearful that the experiment might fail. He had now given an outline of the proposed changes, and should reserve further observations until the several items were proposed.

Mr. Clifford moved, that the petition of the inhabitants of Wellington, on the subject of the Tariff be now read—read accordingly. The honourable member said, he rose to support the prayer of that petition. He was sorry to find from the speech of the Colonial Treasurer, that notwithstanding the fine description as to how duties ought to be levied, it was the intention of the Government in the formation of the new Tariff, to look more to the convenience of the Importer and the facility of collection, than to the interests of the inhabitants generally, the plan the Government proposed to adopt, Avas to increase the duties on articles of large consumption, and take it off those of less. The Colonial Treasurer had stated that there was no such difference between any class in New Zealand as to make that a matter of consideration in the levying of duties. (He Mr. C.) was happy to acknoAvledge that there was no pauper class at present in the country, and that there were fe\v to whom the increased Tariff Avould act as a bar to obtaining the article required. But it must be remembered New Zealand Avas comparatively speaking almost uninhabited; that the Waste Lands of the Country Avere yet to receive thousands of the poorer classes of our country-men, and it was important that at any rate, for some time after their arrival, they should have the opportunity of getting Avhat Avere generally considered the necessaries of life, at as cheap a rate as possible. He believed that a sufficient revenue might be raised by increasing the duty on several articles of luxury, and thus prevent the necessity of the large increase, proposed on such articles, as Sugar which he found was raised 100 per cent.; Coffee, 60 per cent.; Tea, about 25 per cent.; Spirits and Tobacco, about 15 per cent.; Avhile little or no increase was made on Silks, and other articles.of luxury, for the small increase per square foot, on such valuable articles was hardly Avorth mentioning. (Mr. Stafford) the hon. members remark's apply to the recommendation of the Wellington Chamber of Commerce.) Mr. Clifford begged the hon. member's pardon, it was no such thing. He had just made the calculations from the proposed neAV Tariff which he held in his hand. Ministers must remember that by increasing the duties so largely^ on certain articles, they might only be decreasing the domand, and thereby positively injuring the revenue to say nothing of the additional incentive to smuggling. He need not describe the great facilities that existed in New Zealand for that purpose. Hon. members had only to look out of thoir Avindows of tho house at the various creeks and bays of tho Waitemata, aud to remember tho Whaling

vessels, and coasting crafts, frequenting all the coasts of New Zealand, to be aware of the utter impossibility of checking smuggling, as soon as the amount of duty on any one article, made it a profitable transaction to run the small amount of risk incurred. The demoralization consequent upon such a state of things was also to be considered. These arguments referred more to Spirits, than to Wines in consequence of the greater profit to the smuggler on the introduction to the former. If a more equable scale of duties could be introduced, he should feel inclined to recommend that Sheep Wash Tobacco should be taken from the free list. He noticed the laugh of the hon. Treasurer, Avho evidently supposed him now to be doing a little claptrap. He assured him it was no such thing, the Sheep farmer would Avillingly pay a moderate duty on Sheep Wash Tobacco, if duties were lowered on Tea and Sugar, more particularly as_ he would then get rid of the stigma of being protected by class legislation, an assertion too often hazarded without cause. From the present state of the House, he had certainly little hope that Government would be induced to make any alteration in their plan from any representation he could make, although backed as he was by petitions largely signed from both Wellington and Nelson. He Avould, however, suggest that the object in view, ought to be to ease the burden of taxation as much as possible on the ma3s of the population, and not solely the convenience of the importer and the collector. He Avould reserve any further observations he might have to make, till the items themselves came under consideration.

Mr. Stafford said that the class alluded to by the hon. member would gain corresponding advantages under other articles. He had no sympathy with those who said that spirits was the poor man's luxury. The Ministry thought spirits a legitimate article for taxation; they looked to spirits for the whole of the hoped-for increase of revenue, and were not apprehensive that there would be smuggling, in the present state of the country.

Mr. Curtis would rather have seen the inincrease of duty placed upon some other articles than spirits and tobacco—offering, he thought, great inducements to smuggle. Sugar was able to bear the additional duty, and an article not easily smuggled. On the whole, he did not see hoAv the proposed tariff could well be simplified; and he should support it, as he believed it would be a great boon to the public.

Mr. Hall considered that the proposed Tariff was a step in the .right direction, and should support it on that" account, although it did not affect all the alterations he desired. He was still of opinion that the system of charging duty by measurement was very objectionable. He admitted that we were exempt from the danger existingJn the old country of imposing, by duties on' particular articles,_ an unfair amount of taxation upon any particular class, because, here almost all classes consumed all articles, fortunately they could afford to do so. Still we are bound to avoid such duties as would either encourage smuggling or check consumption ; the measurement duty was open to the latter objection. It amounted on some bulky articles tosuch an exorbitantsum as to beprohibitory. In spite of any modification it would continue to press most unequally on different articles. In the part of the colony with which he was connected it had also in practice been found to be very inconvenient. The merchants in Lyttelton had come to a resolution condemnatory of the present Tariff. They were in favor of the principle of that of Victoria, although dissenting from some of its details. He (Mr. H.) hoped that before long that principle Avould be adopted, and that the Customs Revenue would be raised upon a small number of articles, leaving everything else to be admitted duty free. In the % meantime he accepted the Government proposal as an instalment.^ He did not agree Avith Mr. Speaker that the increased duties proposed by the Ministers Avould be a hardship upon the classes called in England the working classes; they would benefit to a corresponding extent by the large number of articles now to be admitted free of duty, tbe cheapening of agricultural implements and of raw materials generally Avould be a great boon to tbe producing classes. He had no sympathy with persons Avho pretended that the tax on spirits was a grievance on the poor man ; they were not his real friends Avho raised this cry. He Avas surprised at the remarks of Mr. Speaker, with regard to sheep-wash tobacco; it was as much a raw material of manufacture as a plough or spade, and ought therefore to be placed in as favorable a position. It stood upon an entirely different footing from tobacco for ordinary consumption. The necessity for its use occurred at times Avhen the stockowner Avas put to other heavy expenses, and could not afford any addition to them. Tobacco paying a duty of Is. 6d. per pound, Avould be too expensive for sheep Avashing. It would be a mistake, and a misfortune to the community generally to adopt any course Avhich Avould have the effect of discouraging attempts to eradicate disease in sheep. He bad thought that Avine might bear an addition to its present duty, better than some articles which had been selected for increase. The declaration however of the Colonial Treasurer that the experience of the past two years shewed that any high duty on this article would only check consumption and not produce increased revenue, was a valid objection to any further increase of duty. Upon the Avhole he believed the proposed Tariff reduced the evils of the measurement system to a minimum, and he should therefore support it. Mr. Ward would support the proposed tariff, Avhich ho thought a step toAvards improvement, that would be recognised as such throughout tho country. Mr. Daldy fancied that tho largo duty to b

leveid on spirits Avould foster smuggling.' He I thought tbe House had some reason to complain that more time had not been allowed for consideration, seeing that the measure Avould not be at once brought into operation. Mr. Ollivier Avould support the measure, which he believed would do a great amount of good, and was a movement in the right direction. He thought, however, that the last three years had proved that consumption bad been decreased by increased duty, and questioned if the result of the alteration would be as satisfactory as the Ministry anticipated. Mr. Richmond, begged leave to say a few words in ansAver to some of the previous speakers. The hon. the Speaker had represented the proposed Tariff as oppressive to the working man. Now, really he (Mr. R.) had not expected that the House would have heard anything in that vein. He had forgotten that one member of the House came from a quarter of* the colony where there was a knot of politicians who still traded in that sort of commodity, and sought to buoy up their political reputation by these windy professions of regard—for they were nothing more—for the working man. But the thing had been overdone. The sagacity of working settlers was not to be deluded by anything so transparent. Had the working men of Wellington filled the benches behind him— and he trusted some day that he might have the pleasure of meeting the working men of Wellington—they Avould have thought they had but a sorry advocate. There was no mistaking the manner, —it was perfunctory. The lion. member was discharging an appointed, and not a grateful, task. It would not have done to lose the opportunity of. making a little political capital; and the sacrifice of the Pastoral interest was exceedingly well imagined. The speech would look very well in print, and would jdo to refer to; though in delivery it was not fervid or impressive, but, on the contrary, Avas wholly wanting in the ordinary marks of a sincere conviction. Away, he said, with this cant about the poor man's spirits ! He for one would not mince matters, or shrink from denouncing it as pure clap-trap. He agreed thoroughly with the hon. member for Christchurch Country Districts (Mr. Hall), that if an increase in the spirit duty would lessen the consumption, it would rather be the part of the true friend of the working men of New Zealand to advocate such an increase. The hon. tbe Speaker bad already been answered in his specific objections. He (Mr. R.) should only repeat that he had unjustifiably confounded the propositions of the Govern nent with those of the Wellington Chamber of Commerce, which were very different. The Speaker had dwelt on the probability of the increase on spirits leading to smuggling, but most inconsistently^ urged;; an increase on silks and laces, which could be much more easily smuggled. Smuggling on the coasts was not at present so likely as smuggling in the ports. We were protected against smuggling on the coasts by the rugged nature of the country, the want of roads, and the thinness of the population.. It would not pay "to run spirits on the coast. There was no sufficient consumption on the spot, arid no possibility of transport. These were our safeguards against the smuggling of spirits; Avhereas silks, laces, and the like, could be passed under the noses of our revenue officers. Under the British Tariff diamonds are free, but who is so foolish as to allege this as a piece of favouritism to_the upper classes ? Was it not evident that a duty on such articles could not be levied ? Tbe hon. member for Christchurch Country Districts (Mr. Ollivier) had touched a poiut which the Government had considered with some anxiety—namely, whether consumption was likely to be affected by the proposed additional duties. Consumption had no doubt been less in 1857 than in 1855. But 1855 was an extraordinary year. Europeans and natives were then both consuming at a great rate, in consequence of the Australian demand for produce. 1854 was also an extraordinary year. No just deduction could be made from a comparison with either of those years. It was possible that in sugar there might be a slight decrease, and Government had left some margin to secure against that contingency. After weighing the matter, they had concluded that it was safer to charge sugar with another than to raise spirits to 10s. He did not believe the springs of revenue were really failing us, but that, on the contrary, the consuming power was steadily on the increase, though subject to temporary interruptions in its advance. Mr. Clifford, in answer to the critiques of the Colonial Treasurer on the remarks he had occasion to make on the tariff, would congratulate" the House upon having, from the honorable member himself, a criterion whereby to judge of that honorable member's sincerity. When he addressed the House in the measured, unimpas- . sioned, and somewhat stammering manner in which he commonly indulged, by his own showing, he was intending mere claptrap and mystification; and Avas only in earnest when, with eye in fine frenzy rolling, vehement declamation and excited action, be denounced the policy or maligned the motives of an opponent. He was not surprised that the honorable member should dislike much of the policy and speeches emanating from members of the province of Wellington, but it was umvise of him to attribute motives of an unworthy nature. Those who lived in glass houses should not throw stones. In showing his political dislike to the representatives of Wellington, he rendered himself liable to tho retort—and would increase the belief—that, as one of the ministry, he had taken effectual means of preventing their presence being offensive to him during this session.

The different clauses were then considered and agreed to Avithout amendments.