General Assembly.

Lyttelton Times, Volume X, Issue 600, 4 August 1858, Page 6

General Assembly.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Monday!. July 5. ' .NAtovE POLICY- „ .

The Attokney-Gbnekai/,- before moving the nnd reading of .the-Native Districts RegulaS?nTSill wished'to "make'a few"observations ori Sr 2c pies on which' it and the -three folIwiS Bills Wad beerifrafned/ In connexion with £ subject,,,several questions' arose, the first q this "What: is it we-are to deal with?" 7i 1815 when the missionaries landed in New ypilaud' the. natives were still in a pristine ftatc- cannibalism, and various other practices rommon to barbarous tribes, were rife among them But a new era dawned; the .Maories, under missionary influences became' partially civilized; and as the country'became• settled that civilization increased: in promoting which the missionary settlers; and\jcommereial influences, each contributed,their part. The natives were widely scattered all over the Northern Island, in no place very numerous, most so in the districts of the Bay- of Islands, Hokianga, and the Waikato. . Barbarous tribes" might be separated into three grand divisions, the hunters, the nomade tribes, and the agricultural.class, "of which divisions the last had the advantage. in civilization over the nomades, and- they again over the hunters. The natives of New1 Zealand occupied a position in the last class, totally different from that of all other aboriginal nations. They were eminently agricultural, living for the most part on the produce of the soil, their villages were fixed places of abode, or if moved, only- for the exigencies of cultivation. While, therefore, it was almost impossible to civilize hunting or nomadic races, the maories were a people peculiarly suited for advance in the scale of civilization. They had already got over the first step, which first step constituted the grand difficulty with regard to the other classes. Pre vious to the arrival of the.whites, the chiefs of the maories governed with authority-the tribes subject to them, but the natural tendency of the white influence has been to destroy that authority: It was a common belief, that all aboriginal natives must fade away before the energies of an advancing white population. He did not share that belief. -He had been much interested in the efforts of the United States Government, towards the civilization of the North American Indians. In 1830, the United States Government formed'an aboriginal settlement oh the-Arkansas, and he had been extremely anxious to know r what had been done, how- the experiment had succeeded. Similar predictions as to- the melting away of the natives had been held out in this case. The latest intelligence he had obtained-on this interesting subject was contained in '.the following paragraph, from -the. Message of the President of tlie United - States to .the Houses of Congress. " The tribes of Cherokees, Choctaws, Chickasaws, and Creeks,- settled in the territory set apart for them west of■ Arkansas, are rapidly advancing in education, and in all the arts of civilization and self-government; and we may indulge the - agreeable1 anticipation that at ho very distant day they will be incorporated into the Union as one of the sovereign States." If all these things could be done among the Indians, what could not .be hoped for in this country. He was desirous to eradicate the impression that nothing could-be done with the' maori. He might adduce many cogent instances occurring in < Canada, and among the nomade tribes of Caffraria, and Natal, but it was unnecessary. He thought after so much had been accomplished,-with such a very refractory material, it might' reasonably be expected that in the course of time, the maori might ascend to our own place in the scale of civilization. He wished hon. members to take notice that the natives themselves, conscious of their state, were extremely anxious that Something should be done. The next question was, What do we want to do? We want to civilize them, we want to improve their moral, physical, and social condition. One class of people look on the natives as laborers; another, as producers and ship owners; another, as heathens to be reclaimed to the.Christian religion; and so on. But the Government looks on them in every aspect, to sea what they are capable of doing; what can bo done for them. He believed they might be made settlers, that they might be treated like, ourselves in every particular, and to this great' end the efforts of the present Government were directed. He acknowledged there were difficulties in the Avay, great difficulties, • but he believed they would be overcome. Some people seemed to have imagined that the interest of the whites and maories were antagonistic. He denied that this was the case. For a particular example, the productive industry of the natives had been ,of yery great advantage to Auckland,: and he believed there was a general inclination to advance the maori in civilization. He would have lion, members consider carefully the situation of the natives. Eor a space of-twenty years after the arrival of the missionaries no Government had existed. During that time a very large proportion had become Christians, but not" yet settlers. He regarded.the plain fact of their having embraced Christianity, as in , itself a great advance, and •• evidencing capabilities for further improvement. Previous to the arrival of Sir G. Grey, the two races were in a state of collision: under Sir G. Grey a great change took place. Captain Fitzroy had attempted to do something for the natives, but with limited powers and resources, it was impossible for him to do much. Sir. G. Grey passed the Resident ■Magnate's Court Act, providing for the appointment of native magistrates, under the title ot Assessoi-s, which was .a great step, placing, as it did, the natives in a position to deal with ottences committed by maories, according to •witish law. Sir G. Grey also provided for two most essential wants of the aborigines by the establishment of schools and hospitals. l Under . the present Government, a more extended provision has been made towards'the support of tliose establishments. Last Summer, Governor wowne visited the districts of tlie Waikato nnd the Bay of Islands, and during the whole course 01 his visit was being .continually, asked, both i oy assessors and others. What are the laws \ you wish us to be guided by? How can we do

our work properly unless we are taught? They were liable to the action of "British law, yet knew nothing of it. The Governor- gave them his | promise that he would do. something for' them. At that, time it was his idea that it would be necessary to exempt them from the operation of British law; and to create an entire native' code. Further consideration, however, made it appear that the British law would prove -the better adapted to the exigencies of the case, and accordingly a careful selection and compilation has been made, and a translation prepared in the native language. The work was now published, and he had no doubt that mo3t of the lion, members had seen copies. It was now in the hands of the natives, and from the great interest among them regarding it, he augured the happiest results. Few, very few, were able to give such information to the natives as they would obtain in this way; and he regarded this ; work as a solid foundation on which hereafter the Government might build to some purpose. A question naturally follows, What is it the Government proposes to do? Before entering on this question, he wished to, direct attention to what it is proposed not to do. It had often been proposed to set apart "districts for natives, allowing them to retain their own habits of Government, habits of life, etc. This he believed would prove a most erroneous policy. Another proposal- he would notice was that of the enforcement of British law. This he believed to be absolutely impracticable.. They had heard a great deal On this subject from New Plymouth; but he believed that if the people of New Plymouth, laying aside all narrow views, would consider that the enforcing of British law in their province would involve the enforcing of it also in the Waikato district, and indeed throughout the island, they would at once see the .utter impracticability of the proposal. He would refer to one other subject, viz., the giving of presents to natives to keep them quiet. • This was a practice he could not possibly agree to. Here the Attorney-General referred again to the settlement of Arkansas, and stated that the system of making the Indians valuable presents, to induce them, to remain at peace, had proved ineffectual; He now came to the consideration of the bills; and first, the Native Districts Regulation Bill. No originality was assumed by the Government in this bill; all they professed was adaptation. In 1847, Mr. Clarke suggested a similar bill. The present bill touched upon matters of a local character, which it had been usual for Provincial Governments to legislate upbh. It was out of the question to allow the Provincial Governments to act in this matter. It was absolutely necessary that the General Government should occupy the ground itself. The object of the bill was the adaptation of certain laws to suit the requirements of the natives, and the withdrawal of all power in the matter from the Provincial Go*ernments. He believed that natives should be consulted regarding laws about to be enacted for them, and thought very beneficial results would ensue by the adoption of such a course. The natives were much interested,in >this matter, and were continually making applications to the native officer for laws. As a proof of their capacities for the work, he instanced the recent enactments of certain laws by the Waikato natives among themselves, for the prevention and punishment of cattle trespass. The bill also touched upon a" very delicate subject, viz., the suppression of various native customs. He did not think much could be done at the present time in this matter; but the bill provided the Governor with power to act, should occasion prove favorable. He now came to the next bill—the Native Circuit Courts Bill—for the better provision for the administration of justice in native districts. The great * peculiarity of this bill consisted in the formation of native juries. * This was a novelty, and however much difference of opinion might exist as to the efficacy of this institution in promoting the ends of justice, there could be no doiibt that, as a grand educational establishment simply, it was well worth while to make a trial of it. The bill" also provided for the establishment of constabulary forces, assessors, &c, for the? purpose of .carrying out the executive part of\lhe bill. He should be asked, " How are you going to carry all these things out?" He was not going tp force the bill on the natives. The bill simply gives to the natives a legal .authority to act on. It was not desirable to carry out British law; and if desirable, not, possible. The AttorneyGeneral next noticed the Native Territorial Rights Bill, and observed that it too was simply a permissive one, requiring the concurrence of the natives, Governor, and Council, before being put into action. Communism was the great drawback to the civilisation of the natives, and the present bill was intended to create individual titles by the issue of crown grants. The bill was very innocuous, but might be productive of great benefit. He next proceeded to notice the Bay of Islands Settlement Bill. It was intended to induce natives to take lauds with crown grants, in lieu of lands now in their possession elsewhere; and consequently to individualise their property. He stated that the natives were very anxious that this should be done, and that the Governor, when visiting the Bay, had promised that he would do all in his power to assist them in this matter. Should this settlement succeed," others would be formed, and the bill therefore might .be looked upon as part of a general scheme for the extinction of the common native title. He again : referred to the experiment at Arkansas, and the satisfaction that so successful a precedent afforded. It had been asked, Avhat will be the effect "of all this legislation? And it had been objected that the natives will treat the affair as a new toy, shortly to be thrown aside. It might be so, but on reviewing the whole position he believed they would bo successful. However, we have taken away their old forms of government, and, sue cessful or not, it becomes our duty to endeavour to provide something better. The hon. Attor-. ney-General then moved that the Native Districts Regulation Bill be read a second time. " I

Major Kenny was strongly opposed to the measures introduced. He was of opinion that the question of native affairs was ti matter affecting the imperial'interests, for which the. Governor was solely responsible to liGr Majesty, His Excellency was answerable to her Majesty for the peace of the colony, and as the Imperial

Government, -and. not the colony, paid for its military protection, the Governor ought, in his opinion, to be supreme in the administration of ■native matters. I?or this reason he (Major X.) was anxious to give stability to native affairs; he'was averse to a native policy ■.■■which was admitted to be merely tentative, and only experimental., Why should riot the Governor himself define, and send down the. native policy he iritendedto pursue? The legislature would exorcise a complete supervision over native affairs, and the House of Representatives would hold the purse strings, and could grant or withhold funds at its: discretion. : He certainly thought that some such course might be adopted. The lion, and gallant .member concluded by saying that, holding the views he did, he must oppose the bill before the Council. He would have preferred to move for* a select committee, but he ■was afraid that the late period of the session precluded that course. He thought there was no alternative but to postpone the consideration of the native policy until next session, and he would therefore move, as an amendment to the hon. the Attorney-General, that "the.bill before the Council be read that day six months." Mr. Gilfilian said, he rose to second the amendment of the honorable and gallant member. He should have preferred if that amendment could have been made for a select committee, to take evidence and report on the whole subject; but, at this period of the session, such a course was impracticable; and though the bill immediately under consideration might not be in some respects so objectionable as the others, and at-all events could be greatly altered in committee,- yet linked up as it was with the others—which formed together the ministerial scheme of the native policy, he thought it the most manly and straightforward course to meet the question as proposed. He did so with regret: he had often listened to his honorable and learned friend, the Attorney-General, and had always adrnired'the great talent he possessed of laying the most complicated questions clearly ■before that Council; and on the present.occasion that honorable and learned gentleman had spoken with all his wonted ability. But what lie considered a mere matter of detail, was to his, (Mr. G.s) mind a matter of principle, which met him at the threshold of every one of these four bills, which altered the whole courseof native affairs as hitherto conducted, and formed one of the chief objections to all the measures. Honorable members would observe that clause 1 of the bill now before them was to the effect "that it shall be lawful for the Governor in Council." This, evidently, put native- affairs under the control of the ministry; which,'under responsible government, was liable to frequent change; and such changes "were not understood by the natives: they involved changes of policy which to the natives would be incomprehensible. He should like much, in spite of all that had been said as to the support these measures would receive from the missionaries arid settlers, to know if the Governor had ever consulted with any of them on this very point. He felt certain that their testimony: would be all in favor of keeping the entire control of native affairs in his own hands. A report on native affairs, also, laid on the table last session (here the honorable member quoted from the report), bore : out his opinion. Yet, in the face' of that report? the ministry now presented these bills, which were at variance with the opinions therein expressed. The departure also, from the original understanding between his Excellency and his ministers on this point was quite apparent; though, even it had become so ambigious that, after reading all the papers, he (Mr. G.) hardly knew what their, relations were. Above all, he would maintain that, till the natives were represented -in the. General Assembly, they ought not to be brought under the sway of that-form of government, which, he would not say we enjoyed, hut to which we had for the present to submit. The policy which suited one race would not suit the other. The ministry best to govern the European race would likely be least fitted to govern the Maories. Hence the need of a permanent native department, with the Governor at its head, not responsible to the Assembly, but bound to supply it with every information sought for. It should also be kept in mind that the Governor alone was responsible to"the Queen for" the pease of the country. If these measures, in beingcarried' out, brought on a war, the Queen and parliament of England would never ask by what ministry they were introduced, but hold Govei*nor Browne responsible throughout. Much had been said as to the missionaries approving this policy. This he greatly doubted, and would even deny. He would read to the Council a letter at least from one missionary, to which he begged their earnest attention. The name of the writer, (the Rev. G. A. Kissling) was in itself sufficient guarantee as to the wisdom and experience with which he wrote. (Here the hon. member read the letter, which pointed out the evil which would arise from the fact that the poverty of the native language would prevent the natives from understanding the true meaning of the law, and the danger of the clauses which allowed imprisonment as a penalty.) These words were not written.bjr a partisan, or in any hostile spirit to the Government. In his opinion they were grave and weighty, and should be pondered well by honorable members. He (Mr. G.) stood astounded when he looked into these measures, to think how quietly they had floated down the stream of legislation elsewhere, to be received by the honorable speaker with his usual courtesy, and then only public opinion and careful attention were brought to bear upon them. The radical defectof these bills was thatthey gave punishment before precept—that they gave the natives power to carry out private grudges against each other, which would probably end in open outbreak. A- chief, once iniprisoned, would have a rankling hatred of British law. in every form, which might lead to the most disastrous results. True, the measures were "permissive" only;'but great mischief might happen inJ distant districts, after they were in operation, before the Government could be made aware of it. Exceptions there were doubtless among the natives, but the great mass were just like children, and i-equiral to be so treated. Education,if spread, might do much to civilise them; and, generations hence, they might stand on the-same platform with the English race: at present it was hopeless to expect it. 'Within his own ob-

servation he had seen that, where the European married the Maori woman, he was not only unable to raise her to his level, but was dragged down but too often to hers. There was a gulf between the Native and European mind which, no legislation could bridge over. The Government had begun at the wrong end; and instead of bringing in such measures now, should have allowed the translation of the English laws, to which reference lias been made by the hon. and learned Attorney-General, to work their way till they in some measure leavened the native mind, and prepared it for their exercise. A3 opportunity would often occur of discussing the various bills in detail, he would not now enter further on the question. To the bill now before them, forming as it did one of the ministerial scheme of native policy, he was obliged to dissent, believing that it would affect prejudicially the interests of both the native and the European races. The Attorney-Geserai/ rising to reply said that the hon. member opposite (Major Kenny) had directed his whole attention to one single point in these bills, viz., the clause providing that the Governor should legislate on the contained matters, only with the advice and consent of his Executive Council. He denied that this clause gave an unstable character to the legislation; he denied that a change of ministry must necessarily involve a change of native policy. The hon. member had proposed a permanent irresponsible minister as an adviser to the Governor on native affairs. He believed that such an arrangement would have precisely the oppcsite effect to what the hon. member contemplated. Such a measure had been tried under previous Governors of New Zealand and had resulted in two entire changes in native policy in the space of 18 months. It was precisely because they wished to give the very greatest possible stability to a system of native policy, that this'clause had been introduced into the bill. He hoped that the Council would consent to consider the bills in detail, instead of rejecting them in the manner proposed. The Government considered their native policy as a question of life and death and if this Council determined to reject these bills unexamined, ministers would be under the necessity of resigning office. In reply to Mr. Swain son, as to the- precise nature for resignation, the Attorney-General stated, that the ministry had matured a system of native policy and had carried it almost unanimously through the other House, and that if that Council should deliberately reject these bills, without examination, the ministry could only adopt the course of resigning office.

Major Kexst rose to explain the course he should take under these circumstances. He felt, reluctant that any step of his should deprive the country of the services of a ministry which it might be difficult to replace. He must say, however, that he could not think it a proper course for the ministry to come down to that Council with a scheme of policy and say, If you do nut swallow that we wiil resign. Under protest, therefore, he asked leave to withdraw his motion. An objection having been raised to this course of procedure, the amendment that the bill be read that day six month*, was put and negatived. The previous motion, that the Native Districts Begulation Bill be read a second time, was then put and carried. The Council then went into committee, on the motion of the..Attorney-General, that clause one-do stand as part of the biil. Being assented to, the Attorney-Gexeral moved that the chairman do report progress. The Council having resumed the Attoexey■GrEXEßAL.lllo ved that the other orders of the day be postponed until to-morrow ; and he then moved that the Council do adjourn,' which was carried. • The Council adjourned accordingly.