Provincial Council.

Lyttelton Times, Volume IX, Issue 549, 6 February 1858, Page 3

Provincial Council.

Tuesday, February 2nd. The Council met at 5 p.m. Present,—the Speaker, Messrs. Ollivier, Studholme, Haslewood, Hall,' Thomson, Wyatt, Woodford, Miln, Bishop, Alport, Waitt, Sprot, Dobbs, Rhodes, Fooks, Davis, Cookson, Cass, Blakiston, Fyfe, Duncan, and Higgins. •■■■■-' * .RETURNS. Mr. Ollivier laid on the table statements of tfee Canterbury Association's Estate Account to tue 3istDec.,; 1857. Also a return from the Inspector of sheep of the number1 and condition of the sheep in the Province of Canterbury at the close of last year. Also the contracts entered into with Messrs. Lingard, as moved for by Mr. Thomson. PETITION. Mr. Thomson presented a petition from J. and J. Lingard asking remuneration of expenses gone to on the faith of a promise of a contract, which was not fulfilled. The petition was read and received, and a committee appointed to enquire into the allegations^ PUBLIC WORKS COMMITTEE. Mr. Hall, as chairmah, asked for an extension of time to bring up the report of this committee till that day week; he hoped it might.be ready earlier, .and, : if: so,-, it would be brought up without delay. Leave given. • ; Mr. Hall rose to move, according to notice, a rpsolutipn tpthe effect, that, it was desjrable that certain resolutions' of the former Council should be compiled with,r viz.—that copies of acts of the GenWal Assembly should be obtained for the use of members, and that the Constabulary Ordinance .should be reprinted, and copies furnished to the Police Offices and to Justices of the Peace, x-. The acts of the General Assembly were of great importance as affecting the legislation ;of the Council, and, as the Council might be said to be entirely ignorant of them, it was most desirable that they should; be placed within reach of members^ .These resolutions were passed by the Council, and,' in reply to questions at an after period, the Government promised that they should be complied with, but nothing; had been done. He wished to know •whether any steps were being taken. Mr. Ollivier could not find that any steps whatever had been taken in the matter; but it was merely a question of a money, vote: whether the Council would put upon the estimates a sum of, money for the purpose. As far as concerned the General Assembly. Acts, the step recommended was. most desirable; he thought that it would be as well to add copies of all Provincial Ordinances. But as regarded the Constabulary Ordinance, he did not think it was the place of the Provincial Government to procure copies for the justices of the peace who were servants of the General Government. Besides, if reprinted by the Provincial Government, they could be considered only unauthenticated copies, and he did not. expect that the honourable gentleman would recommend any of his fellow justices to act upon them. But if they took the. step recommended with the Constabulary Ordinance, he did not see why they should stop there; several other ordinances'were just as much required for the information of Magistrates. •He felt he ought to object to the Provincial Government being driven to expense in placing justices of the peace in a position to transact business. Mr. Thomson thought it extremely necessary to have such laws as the Constabulary Ordinance in the hands of members. This law, it would be recollected, had been found of the utmost importance' in rectifying the provisions of White's Kaiapoi Bridge Bill after it had passed incorrectly through the house. Mr. Hall objected strongly to raising a discussion upon resolutions already passed by the Council, which, unless rescinded, the Government was bound to carry out. If the Provincial Secretary made a point of the justices being servants of the; General Government, he would remind him that their duties lay in the Resident Magistrate's Court, and therefore to supply copies of laws * for their guidance might fairly come as an item of provincial expenditure. The expense might have been gone to without waiting for a specific vote of the Council. Many items to which much more exception could be taken had been met out of what were called •• contingencies.' Resolution put and passed. CORRESPONDENCE. Mr. Hall moved for copies of correspondence between the General and Provincial Governments on the subject of local posts. They were about to be called upon to vote a sum for the service, and the various letters on the subject would be needed for. explanation. —Agreed to. Mr. Hall then moved for copies of correspondence on the subject of a piece of ground proposed to be handed over to the General Government for the site of a Custom House. It had been reserved by the. Canterbury Association for that purpose, and a hospital once stood upon it. In his Honor's opening address it had been intimated that it was to be handed over to the. General Government for the purpose for whi^h. it had l~zea reserved. He should like the correspondence which had passed on the subject to be supplied for the elucidation of the matter. —Agreed to. Mr. Hall then moved for copies of any correspondence relating to office accommodation for the Registrar. Mr. Ollivier hardly knew if it was possible to grant all the favours the hon. gentleman asked. /The offices were at the present moment, extremely short handed, and"the returns which the hon. gentleman had already been promised were sufficient to occupy more than their spare time. Besides, the correspondence how requested was exceedingly voluminous, one of the letters alone covered 40 sheets of foolscap, and he could not but think it mere waste of time to employ the time of the offices in copying out this mass of correspondence merely to gratify the curiosity of hon. members. Still it should be done if. possible, if the house desired it, taking its turn after the other roturns asked for. He could not promise that it should be ready before the close of the session.—Motion put and agreed to. Mr. Dobbs moved for " a return of the arbitrations which have taken place with reference

to roads made througli surveyed settled districts, and of the sums paid in compensation for such roads." Such''a return was most necessary for the ' information of the Council. He believed that the sums paid Would be found excessively high, and 'such as were likely to prevent altogether the formation of roads through settled districts.—Agreed to. Mr. Davis rose to .ask. a .question of the hon. Provincial Secretary. It was what steps had been taken to widen and lengthen the public wharf in Lytteltoh, in accordance with the resolution of the Council to that effect last session. Also, for copies of any correspondence which had passed between the Government and the inhabitants of Lyttelton on the question. Mr. Ollivter said the .answer was easy; no such resolution had been adopted by the Council. The one the hori. gentleman referred to had been brought forward and a discussion taken upon it; after wliich it was withdrawn by consent of the hon. gentleman himself. The correspondence asked for should be produced at the next sitting. "WASTE LANDS REGULATIONS AMENDMENT BILL. The house then went into committee to proceed with the consideration of the clauses. Clause 66, referring to purchase by a preemptive right holder when challenged, was read. Mr. Ollivier said that the difficulties which had been started as to the operation of this clause upon pre-emptive rights on runs had been found not insuperable; they had received careful consideration from the Waste Lands Commissioners, who agreed that the clause effected the proposed objects. He had no hesitation in saying that the'pre-emptive rights for which | this clause provided were distinct from those referring to homesteads andjmprdvements on runs, and that the latter would not be affected by its provisions. He therefore saw no reason for altering the wording of the clause. _ Mr. Thomson recommended, for the sake of distinctness, the insertion of a few words excepting the rights on runs from the operation of the clause, if it was really the intention of the Government to except them; and he moved an amendment to that effect. Mr. Ollivier would not oppose the introducduction of the words recommended by Mr. Thomson. Mr. Bishop did not see why the clause should not stand as it was. It appeared to him more proper, if a portion of any pre-emptive right were applied for, that the holder should either purchase the whole block challenged or let it alone altogether. A right-holder should not be allowed to trip up an applicant by buying apiece of land under the amount of the application. Mr. Waitt said that the subject was canvassed out of doors, and he might say that the verdict was much the same as the general feeling of the Council, viz.,—that the Pre-emptive rights should bs crushed as soon as possible, consistently with justice. Some holders Avho had purchased land originally were tairly entitled to consideration. It was evidently in accordance with justice that when an application was made for 100 acres and the right holder bought 20 acres, the challenger should have a distinct right to the remaining 80 acres; and if the purchase was not made, an application being once entered, the right should lapse. Mr. Alport hoped the clause would be carried as proposed by the Government. He wondered how the runholders at this time of day, with all their advantages, could still require protection! He should be glad to see all pre-emptive rights got rid of if it could be done with justice; several now in operation were not at all used as intended. He hoped the clause would be passed without the amendment. The amendment was then put, and the committee divided as follows:— Aye :—Messrs. Haslewood, Waitt, Studholme, Hall, Sprot, Cookson, Bowen, Davis, Dobbs, Rhodes, Thomson. Ollivier, and Cass.—l3. No:—Messrs. Miln, Bishop, Fyfe, Alport, Woodford, and Wyatt.—6. The amendment was accordingly carried and the clause as amended adopted. The addition made to clause 66 of the regulations stands as follows: — " If the holder of any pre-emptive right, other than those created by clause 60, neglect or refuse to purchase any portion of the land applied for such portion shall from and immediately after such neglect or refusal be released from all right of pre-emption, and open to purchase on the terms of these regulations, as if the same had not been included in any pre-emptive right." On the motion of Mr. Hall, clause 65 was so altered as to provide for the deposit on an application being returned when the right holder declared his intention of purchasing, without waiting for the completion of the purchase. Mr. Dobbs moved the consideration of clauses 51 and 71 of the regulations, and proposed that they should be amended so as to provide for the payment of rents due on May 1, on some other days as well. He remarked that by confining payments to the very day, great inconvenience was felt both by the board and the stockowners. A rather lengthened consideration ensued upon the manner in which the extension should be effected, in which Messrs. Ollivier, Cass, i Cookson, Hall, Thomson, and Fooks joined. I Finally, it was fixed that payments might be made at any sitting of the board appointed for that purpose between the 20th of April and the Ist of May. Clauses 51 and 57 of the Regulations were amended accordingly. The committee then reported progress. CANTERBURY ASSOCIATION'S RESERVES AMENDMENT BILL. The liouse again went into committee upon this bill. The draft had been amended by the introduction of the provision for resuming ! the grants unless applied to the intended purI poses within three years. The time was extended in case of the grants to be made under this ordinance to ten years. The first clause being read, reserving a site of three acres to the Church of England, Mr. Miln objected to the extension of time to ten years. He said the grant which had been made to the Scotch Church was subject to resumption if not used within three years, and it would be unjust to treat other denominations more liberally. Messrs. Bowen and Davis reprobated the view entertained by Mr. Miln. Mr. Bowen said that in the original proposal

sites were reserved for the Church of England, and these reserves were still marked on the map, one on the north and one on the south side of the town. The members of the Church of England were far more numerous, consequently much more church accommodation was necessary, and the requirements for schools and parsonages were much greater than those of other denominations. Before suggesting that the Church of England should receive a larger grant than other denominations, he had aonsulted the heads of those bodies, who agreed with him that the additional reserve was nothing more than just. The hon. gentleman moved an amendment accordingly, which was adopted.

Mr. Hall wished to know if the words ' bylaw established' were intended to remain in the j bill as applied to the Church of England. That I expression was neither correct nor in accordance with the designation used in other ordinances. The proper term to use was " the church in communion with the Church of England as by law established-," but it was preferable to adopt the shorter phrase and leave out the latter words altogether. He moved an amendment to that effect. A desultory conversation ensued before the amendment was put, in the course of which Mr. Ollivier explained that the words did not mean that the church was established by law in New Zealand, but were used to distinguish the particular church to which the grant was made in case of a schism arising in the body. The term had received the express sanction of the Provincial Solicitor, and the objections made to it were groundless. Messrs. Dobbs Thomson and Fyfe also spoke to the question. The amendment was then put and carried to a division. j Aye:—Messrs. Bishop, Hall, Fyfe, Miln, Davis, and Wyatt—6. No:—Messrs. Fooks, Haslewood, Studholme, Cookson, Bo wen, Alport, Woodford, Dobbs, Rhodes, Sprot, Thomson, Ollivier, Cass and Waitt—l4. The amendment was accordingly lost. Immediately afterwards, in altering the construction of the clause, the phrase ' members in communion with the Church of England as by law established' was made applicable to all portions of the clause. The clause was then adopted, as also were those granting sites to the Roman Catholic and Wesleyan bodies, without discussion. The following sites are those proposed by the schedule; No. 2 being introduced in accordance with the amendment granting a second site to the Church of England. It is probable that No. 4 may be altered. The consideration of these sites was postponed to a future sitting. CHURCH OF ENGLAND. No. 1. Three acres bounded on the North by the town belt, on the South by Lot 152, on the East by unsold, portions of the Town Reserves, and on the West by Manchester-street, North. No. 2. Three acres bounded on the North by Lot 13, on the East by Lot 18, on the South by the town belt, and on the West by a road leading from the Lincoln Road to the town belt. ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH. No. 3. Three acres bounded on the North by Lot 10, on the South by the town belt, on the East by Lot 147, and on the West by Barbadoes street South. WESLEYAN BODY. No. 4. Three acres bounded on the North by Lot 11, on the South and East by the town belt, and on the West by unsold portions of the town reserves. The Committee then reported progress. COMMITTEE OP SUPPLY. The house then went into committee to consider the estimates. The items were taken as follows:— SUB-TREASURIES. Akaroa, £164 10s. Under the head of Timaru, £15 was added to pay a constable in that locality. Timaru, £115 Os. MISCELLANEOUS. Printing, advertising and stationery £350 Os. On the proposal of the sinking fund for the loan of £30,000, Mr. Hall drew attention to the points connected with that loan. Amongst others he asked if any of the Debentures sent for signature were yet signed. The answer being in the negative, Mr. Hall regretted that such was' the case, as the correspondence on the subject showed the greatest anxiety on the part of the Immigration agent that they should be completed and forj warded at once. The credit of the province depended on the early execution of this operation. Mr. Ollivier said that the debentures had arrived from Sydney but a very short time before the Council opened; since then business had been too pressing to permit the completion of such an arduous undertaking as the signature of the debentures. Meanwhile it would be seen from the correspondence that the Immigration agent had a credit sufficient to prevent any delay in his operations. The vote of £600 for sinking fund was removed to the permanent charges. On the vote of £1000 in aid of steam navigation, Mr. Ollivier promised to lay before the Council, before the end of the session, the terms upon which the grant woiild be made. Mr. Hall hoped the Government would be careful how they spent money without security. He remarked that the grant was down for the half year. Would it not be expedient to pay a bonus at the end of each quarter as it was earn,ed? He would suggest that the consideration of this item be deferred until the terms of agreement were before the Council.

Mr. Davis said the last steamer had been a losing speculation, and they were at present in ignorance of whether the present steamer would be efficient for the purpose required. He should look with jealousy upon any public money squandered upon the object. Mr. Ollivikr stated that the sum of ,£I,OOO was to be a free grant without reference to any time during which it was to be paid. The best security possible was the high character of the gentlemen whose money was invested in the undertaking and who were about to carry it out.

Ma*. Bishop was surprised at the tone taken on this subject by lion, members. Great liberal-

ity had been shown upon some points, and yet on such a one as this in which the most responsible men in the province risked their money and volunteered to conduct the undertaking, the proposals of the Government were met with objections. He could not understand niggardliness in assisting such an enterprise as the present, r Messrs. .Rhodes, Fooks, and Bowen also sx)oke to the point. The adjournment of the item being i>ut, tne committee divided. I Aye:—Messrs. Fooks, Haslewood, Studholme, Higgins, Hall, Wyatt, Cookson, Bowen, Miln, Fyfe, Davis, Woodford, Ollivier, Cass, and Thomson.—ls. No:—Messrs. Waitt, Sprot, Bishop, Alport, Dobbs, Rhodes, and Duncan.—7. The consideration of this item was accordingly adjourned: as was also that for the local post service until certain correspondence on the subject was laid on the table. Mr. Olltvier gave notice that he would move under this head for a grant in aid of building schools for '.the Free Church of Scotland, for an additional sum for the Government Offices, and another for buoys and moorings at Timaru. IMMIGRATION. Under this head Mr. Ollivier stated that a sum of £500 was asked for to erect barracks in Christchurch. At the suggestion of Mr. Hall, who had acted as Immigration Agent of late, improvements would be made in the barracks at Lyttelton. He explained that it was proposed to erect a range of buildings in Christchurch, to include police barracks, together with immigration rooms, but the Government was not quite prepared with plans.

Mr. Alport felt obliged to oppose this vote; it was simply unnecessary. The demand for labour was so great that no delay occurred in providing situations for all arrivals; it was so great, indeed, that, before landing, employers went into Lyttelton and on board ship to secure servants. The accommodation in Lyttelton was sufficient, and there would be increased room when the building now used as the church was no longer required. Until it could be shown that this was not the case he should vote against the grant. Mr. Cass replied that as the majority of employers resided on the Christchurch side of the hill, it was desirable that they should not have to trudge into Lyttelton to look after servants. There was a great advantage in bringing out men at once on to the plains, and there was also a strong necessity for providing lodgings for those who came out seeking for employment. These men could not get back to Lyttelton the same evening, and it was nothing but right that they should have an opportunity of visiting the plains without going to the expense of hired lodgings. It was also more becoming that labourers should come to seek employment than that the employers should go to hunt after labour. Mr. Bishop and Mr. Milx spoke in favour of the establishment of immigration barracks at Christchurch, after which the motion was pat and carried without a division. The Public Works Office items were left with others for further consideration; and the committee reported progress. LYTTELTOX JETTT. Mr. Waitt rose to move that his Honor the Superintendent be requested to place upon the estimates the sum of £1,200 for the purpose of widening and elongating Lyttelton Jetty. Little need be said on behalf of the motion, as there was every conceivable reason for urging the grant. The sum named in the motion was perhaps not sufficient for all the required objects, as the jetty required repairs as well as enlargement. The necessity for the work was allowed on all hands. That part of the town, though it would not always be the only business locality, would continue to be the leading commercial part. Great advantage to the traffic of the whole community would be obtained by the extension of the jetty: for instance, as the Captain of the Glentanner had informed him, if the length were increased to about double, a ship of thai; size could come alongside.

Mr. Davis rose to second the motion. He referred first to the resolution submitted to the Council last session. [Read from the journal of the house by the Clerk.] A petition had been sent in to his Honor the Superintendent on the subject, signed by all the commercial men in Lyttelton. The amount of work which was carried on upon the jetty was enormous and increasinsr; and the wharf was entirely insufficient to accommodate it. The subject should receive immediate consideration. The Collector of Customs was decidedly opposed to the abandonment of the present jetty and the substitution of the one proposed by the Provincial Eugineer's report. Besides, "an auxiliaryjjwharf was being constructed by Mr. Peacock. It was said that the present wharf was dangerous to shipping, but that was a gross mis-statement; for since the loss of the Torrington, six years ago. no accident had occurred. He cordially supported the motion. Mr. Olliviek could assure the hon. gentleman who had last spoken that it was tar from the intention of Government to overlook the interests of Lyttelton. At the present moment, so far from" that, they were placing upon the estimates a sum of £3000 for the construction of a sea-wall and jetty. The opinion of the Provincial Engineer on the subject was that the present jetty was inefficient and unsafe, and that it might possibly be washed away entirely in about two years." The question arose then where a new jetty should be placed; the present site was dangerous, and it was suggested to place the new one at the end of Canterbury street, laying a tramway upon it so that goods could be run out on to the quay and carts need not work upon the jetty at all. Tor £3000 all that was necessary could be done on this work and that within a reasonable time. But if it was the opinion of the Council that the present site was a good one, the Government would consider how to"proceed improving it while work at the same time was not interrupted. He could not but repeat that the declaration of the Provincial Engineer was against the present site, his opinion bein"- given that not even heavy moorings could be so lai'l down that vessels could be warped oft" with satVtv. But before any decision was come to the opinion of the Collector of Customs and the Harbour Master would be taken. Mr.ll.v.L spoke in favour of the motion.

It being understood that the question should come on again for consideration when the public: works were under discussion, the motion was for the present withdrawn by leave.

Mr. Davis moved for the production of anycorrespondence between the Provincial Government and the Sheriff" relative to the employment of prison labour. The motion not being seconded fell to the ground. HILLS ROAD. Mr, Alport moved that his Honor the Superintendent be requested to place upon the estimates a sum not exceeding £550 for the formation of the road under the hills, and of a bridge over the Heathcote. This undertaking should not be abandoned, as it would be unless the sum voted last year were again placed on the estimates. There was a sum already voted for the service of this work, but he was afraid it was not likely to be appropriated before April, and it would be necessary to revive the vote. In comparing this with other works it would be apparent that it was of the utmost importance; indeed it was a matter of the greatest necessity to place a bridge over the Heathcote, that travellers might not be subject to the inconvenience and taxes of the ferry. He was sure the Council could not spend a sum of money more appropriately than in carrying out this work.

Mr. Ollivier said that a difficulty had been met with in the prosecution of this road. The Engineer had been obliged to remodel the line of road, and was now prepared to recommend a nearly direct road to the upper part of the Heathcote Valley below the bridle-path. This road must pass over private property, and the difficulty the Government met with was that of compensation. The Government therefore thought better to postpone the matter until they were in possession of the Roads Diversion Ordinance, when they would consider themselves pledged to settle the matter-, and the road would be the first considered. The delay might also have the good effect of causing the landholders to withdraw their present opposition, and of causing them to coincide with perfect acquiescence in the intentions of the Government. But if the Government were forced by the Council to proceed immediately with the bridge, they must build it in an inconvenient locality, where an expense of between two and three hundred pounds would be incurred beyond what was called for. The fullest information on the subject could and would be produced for the satisfaction of members. He trusted, therefore, as circumstances were undergoing alteration, the Council would forbear to press the question for the present.

Mr. Haj-l thought it was really time the Council took this work in hand. It had been particularly under consideration every session, and money had been regularly every session voted for it, but it had never yet been carried out. He could not understand it. The land holders on the line had held a conference on tha subject, and had agreed in writing that the road should be carried through on favourable terms. Meanwhile the Engineer, instead of looking after the matter, was away at the West Coast or elsewhere, and when he returned, he came down with a proposition for a new road altogether, with a steam wharf on the Heathcote, and a number of etceteras, to cost somewhere about £7,000. He believed that it was in this way that the chances of the formation of the road had been overturned.

Mr. Cass could assure the Council that the terms offered by the land holders were such as could not be accepted by the Government. Concessions had been demanded •which it was not in their power to give; for instance, they had asked for the old line of road to be given up to them, which could not be done except under authority of the Roads Diversion Bill. Until the Government had the power of forcing proprietors of land to allow roads to be taken through, for compensation to be given under arbitration, no amount voted by the Council for the formation of the road would suffice. When the Roads Bill was in force the thing could be managed, but until then they had no power of enforcing arbitration or of giving up a road line.

Mr. Alpost was about to say that as far as regarded the sum estimated to make the road, he had simply taken the amount set down on the Estimates'of the current year. If the Council would now vote the sum of £550, by next session they would be prepared to vote more money if necessary. As far as he could gather information, he was aware that several landholders were anxious to have the road.

Mr. Ollivier was sorry to interrupt Mr. Alport, but if he was not going to withdraw his motion as he (Mr. 0.) supposed, he must submit an amendment, viz:—" That, pending the reception of the report of the Committee on Public "Works, it is not desirable to place a sum on the Estimates for the work in question."

Mr. Hall could not free the Provincial Engineer or the Government from blame in the matter. The Provincial Engineer had had plenty of time to make a report of the circumstances of the case, and the Government to consider it; and if the report was unfavourable to the immediate construction of the road, there had been time to bring in a bill for the especial purpose of overcoming the objections of the landholders. Messrs. Cookson, Alport, and Fyfe spoke against the amendment, Mr. Elakiston in favour of it.

The amendment was then put and carried to a division, when there appeared:— Aye:—Messrs. Fooks, Higgins, Blakiston, Sprot, Bishop, Woodford, Dobbs, Studholme, Duncan. Ollivier, and Cass.—ll. No:—Messrs. Thomson, Rhodes, Hall, Cookson, Miln, Fyfe, Alport, Davis, and Waitt —9. Mr. Alport's motion was accordingly rejected. iNvvocyn's mill bill. Mr. Hall moved the second reading of this bill, which after a short conversation was passed. Notices of motion were then given, and the house adjourned at 10.30. p.m. till next day.