Provincial Council.

Lyttelton Times, Volume VI, Issue 356, 29 March 1856, Page 6

Provincial Council.

[We continue here, from Wednesday's publication, our report of proceedings in the Council on the undermentioned <l;iv J

Thursday, March 20. v The Provincial Sbcuetaky hoped that his lion, friend on the right would consent to withdraw his motion. He gave him full credit for disinterested motives in bringing it forward, it was impossible to make any reduction in the expenditure without a total revision of the list and introducing veiy considerable alterations in the machinery of government at the risk of impairing its efficiency, For his own part his duties were now so onerous that he had no wish at all to take the duties and responsibilities of Treasurer. The lion. member must also recollect that it would involve the engagement also of another clerk at a salary very little short of what was now paid to the Treasurer. As to other provinces being in a more prosperous state, he must protest against the assertion of the lion, member. It was borne out by no public document. He believed there was no province in New Zealand which was not deeply in debt. Our debt was seemed us by property acquired, which was the case in no oilier Province that he knew of".

Mr. Thomson hoped that there was no endeavour to creaie patent offices, as he was led to believe from hearing of compensation. As to the syreat responsibilities of the olVtcn, he believed there w;is such an officer as the Provincial Auditor. No money was paid save on an Auditor's warrant, the Treasurer was merely a cashier.

Mr. Hamilton said that when Mr. Tancred and himself endeavoured tv form a government some few years hack," the expenses were very low, they were getting- their work done much below the market value; the price of labour now was fairly represented on ti.eir estimates. He thought that the lion, member (Mr. Packer) who spoke against responsible government ought to be the last man to do so; as he was a short lime since its most strenuous advocate. As to the doctrine of compensation be (Ivlr. II.) asserted that gentlemen hud some right to look for cotnpensstipu, if they were suddenly deprived of an cilice .that they bad understood to be permanent and only to be forfeited for misconduct. Gentlemen in situations of this kind were debarred from competing-with their fellow colonists in remunerative pursuits, and he thought that where no understanding was entered into on the person coming into office, that he had some claim for being suddenly deprived of his means of livelihood for no mis conduct. The motion was then withdrawn. On the motion to grant .£IOO for the Provincial Auditor, Dr. Donald complained that the way in which the business of the Audit oflice was conducted, unnecessarily iuterleies with the heads of Departments. IJe shewed the excess of routine in his opinion that was always obsencl. His own office was a peculiar one, it happened ofit-n that a mini's life depended on a small quantity of wine, and as the system now was enforced he had to order it on his own responsibility, and lake his chance of having the account passed by the auditor.

The Provincial SecJiktauy explained that the silicon was not expected to wait for the order of the Superintendent before ordering any necessaries for the hospital. -Mr. Oli.ivier quoted two rules for the guidance of the officials, the latter of which he considered to bear out the lion, member's (Dr. Donald's) assertion.

Dr. Donald explained that towards the Auditor personally he had iso grounds .of complaint; that gentleman carried out the sjsiciu

honourably and scrupulously ; it was not of the man but of the system that he complained. In the Resilient Magistrate's department £15 was allowed Cor the purpose of baying books i'or the use of the Court ;it Christohureh. On the vole for police Mr. Davis objected to the pay as being too little, not inducing a superior class of men to enter the force. Mr. Tanciusd moved that the Chairman do report progress. The Speaker resumed the chair. The Provincial Skorktahy moved that the orders of the day be discharged. Curried. Mr. Taxcrkd gave notice that the motions standing in bis name be transferred to Wednesday the 26ih. ■The Provincial Secretary gave notice of the Roads Bill for Tuesday. Mr. Packer gave notice that he would bring forw.-'ird his no lice, respecting Mr. J. E. -Thacker on Tuesday. The house adjourned at half-past ten to Wednesday the 26th.

Wednesday, March 26. The Speaker went to prayers at II a.m. Mr. Thomson gave notice that he should wove for leave of absence for Dr. Moore, who was unable to attend the sittings of the Council from illness. Mr. Tanciusd moved that the Speaker do leave the chair, and th.it the M-mse do go into co in mit tee on the-Public-house Bill.—Carried. The House then went into committee, but as there was a very i«i» attendance, an adjournment was made till three p.m., at which hour business was resumed. The remaining clauses of the Public-house Bill were then gone through. Clause 21 was passed, with slight verbal alterations, to make it tally with other amended clauses. Clause 22 was passed. Clause 23, Mr. Oi.livikr thought was too stringent. Public-houses here did not stand in the same position as in England, people here making them their homes ; and he did not consider it fair to deprive the inmates.of the privilege of having harmless a-museinent. [t must be recollected that we had no places of public amusement, and if all games were forbidden, it would be a great temptation to drink, as the only occupation to be found in the publichouses. Mr Hamilton said that the clause was not intended to debar the frequenters of the publichouses fiom amusement. It was notorious that gambling to a great excess had been carried on in public-houses. It was absolutely necessary to have smie stringent law for punishing any such offence ; but there would be no occasion to carry out the law with severity, where merely amusement not gaming was the object. Mr. Dampieb thought the clause might as well be omitted. Mr. Olijvieu proposed to leave out certain words at the end of the clause.—The amendment was carried without a division. Tins clause as amended reads:— "23. It shall not be lawful for any licensed person to permit gambling of any kind to be carried on in his house or premises, under a penalty not exceeding £20." In clause 24, Mr. Olliviisr proposed, and Mr. Hall seconded an amendment, omitting much of the clause. Mr. Davis said that it could no! he considered just to make the publican responsible for people who apparently, though not really, became intoxicated in the house. He assured the House that the class most dreaded by the respectable publican was the drunkards ;' men who obtained drink elsewhere ai.d came demanding more, and becoming abusive if refused. He also instanced the fact that men employed in the stores at Lyttelton got paid partly in drink. In the wool-pressing season they had an unlimited supply of grog, and on being refused more by the publican th<;y would resort to all kinds of subterfuges to obtain it. lie considered it as a very unjust clause and should oppose Jt. " The clause was amended without a division, ami reiuis thus 24. If any person holding a license under tins Ordinance shall supply or cause to be supplied in or upon hLs house or premises, any intoxicating liquors to any iktmhi in. a slate of "itLxicnion, he shall be liable to a penalty of »<>t less tliiin 20s. or more than £IQ, for every suulj offence. Clause 25 was passed.

Clause 26. Mr. Davis objected to this as very oppressive. The publican was obliged to give credit. Tie himself had been obliged to do so to a considerable amount in the case of lodgers. The publican could.not say to his customer that he had gone the length of his tether, and he could trust him no more, without giving offence. The Provincial Skcretary gave his testimony to the way in which' Mr. Davis' house was conducted, and thought that if all other houses in the colony had been conducted in as good a way there would probably have been no occasion for such stringent clauses. It was unfortunately, however, too well known that a large number of labouring men, who could not otherwise afford it, do get drunk on trust, and all who were in earnest to put down drunkenness he did not think would take exception to this clause. Tie considered this clause rather as a protection than otherwise to ibe publican ; who would say to his guest ; " I do not mistrust you, or doubt your capability, or intention of paying me; but this is my necessity, the law allows me to go no further than 205." The Council should not be led by special coses, if they consider it fit that some check should be put on that system of credit which seduces v^en into drunkenness. He thought that that state of the law which allowed the working man to go into debt for a sum of In ice as many pounds as this clause allows shillings, was to the prejudice of the common weal of the state.

Mr. Ollivieu wished to know if such law was necessary, why ihey had had no cause shewn for it by the bringer in of the Bill. Had the cases before the Magistrates' court been so numerous as to-warrant such a clause?

Mr. T<vncri;d explained that the cases heard had not been numerous, but the summonses on this account had been so ; the fact of ihe taking out the summons hail had the effect of making the debtor pay the demand without coming into court. There were also many distressing cases of relatives, husbands, and wives getting into debt, and impoverishing their families by their drunkenness, and lie considered the clause a. very judicious one. Question put that the clause do stand part of the bill. On a division the numbers were ayes 6, noes 6. The Chairman gave the casting vote to the noes. The clause was therefore lost, and disappears from the Bill. Clause 27 was put to a division when the numbers were again equal, 6 to 6, the chairman gave the casting vote for the ayes. The clause therefore, stands. Clause 28 passed with the insertion of the words, "and shall keep the same burning from sunset till I 1 p.m." in lieu of sunrise as'in the draft. Clause 29 passed subject to a slight verbal alteration. Clause 30, Mr. Oixivier objected to the great powers given to the police by this clause, and compared it with the power of the metropolitan police. He sh-.uild move the omission of that part of the clause. Mr. Thomson seconded the amendment. Mr. Davis objected to the clause as excessively tyrannical, and complained that they were putting far too much power into the hands of the police. Fie stigmatized the clause as quite a .Russian piece of legislation. Mr. Tanckej> explained that all the powers claimed for the police, in this elause.Uvere secured to them by other ordinances of New Zealand; it has been judged expedient to collect them as in this act. The amendments were carried without a division. The Clause reads .-—. "30. Every constable shall have power and authority to enter any licensed house upon receiving information that the provisions of this ordinance are being contravened within such house, or upon hearing" any riot or disturbance therein, and if any person shall obstruct or attempt &c, under this ordinance, be shall be liable to a penalty not exceeding £iQ. The Title and the Preamble of the bill then passed. It was moved that the Chairman do report the bill to the Mouse. Carried. The Speakkr then resumed the chair. Mr. Fooics brought up the report of the committee on the standing orders, and »aye notice of motion that it be received. The lemaiiiing ordeis of the day were discharged. Notice of Motions for the next day were renewed. The House then adjourned.

Thursday, March 27. The Speaker went to prayers at 5 p.m. The schedules of the Public House Bill were passed in Committee. The house went into a Committee of Supolv All tne remaining- votes on the prepared 'list were passed by the Council, including the sum of £ 1,-300 for Education.

Friday, March 28. The Spkaiceb went to prayers at 11 am r *J r;,9 r'l' 1 IviBR P«sented a petition from"Mr. J.UJ Hacker, praying to be released from his halihues due to the Provincial Government I he petition was granted. Mr Ollivzeii further moved that a sum of £24 due Iroin J hacker to the niasler of tbe 4/wirt, be paid by the Government A discussion ensued on the question, which resHUed m a division, when it .was negatived by The house went into Committee on thp R»aaV Offence* Kill. Clause , tZ Z cussion when the i, <Jllse was counted out at a quarter before one, there being- oulv six members piesent. nexl' c °rderS °f thC day Sta"d Over t0 Tuesrtay