Provincial Council.

Lyttelton Times, Volume V, Issue 312, 27 October 1855, Page 3

Provincial Council.

Wedriesday. October \7th. [We continue Mr. Sewkli/s speech from Wednesday's issue.] We examined Mr. M'Lean, We found from that gentleman that ,£i3.OOQ would be payable in the current year to complete old purchases of native lands. The purchase of the Waiiarapa, madeJ>y Sir George Grey, is still incomplete. Here I may remark upon the danger and impolicy of this system of paying for native lands by instalments. The effect of it is to mortgage the uncertain land revenue of future years to make good past purchases. (Hear, hear.) I doubt whether the practice is legal under the terms of the Constitution Act. In the present case ihe government seemed wholly unprepared to meet the claim. We asked the Colonial Treasurer, Was he aware .of it? No.; he knows nothing whatever of the state of the public accounts. (Cries of "Shame.") The Auditor General alone can tell us anything- about them. We asked the Auditor Genera', "Are you aware of a liability for ;£ 13.000 falling due ibis year for old native land purchases?' 1 "No.'' He had never heard of it, (great sensation). He did not consider that it was a liability ; a public accountant would not so consider it. (Contemptuous laughter.) Such is the Auditor General's view upon the portion of what is a liability. It being thus brought to his notice, he proposes to discharge it out of the land re\emeuf the current year. Thus he provides for it —and thus it ceases in his eyes to be a liability—(hear, hear.) It is the case of Mr. Skirapole paying his debts by putting his hand to a Bill. "Thank God that's settled" says Mr. Skimpole, (great laughter), and so the AuditorGeneral, putting the £13,000 down in the estimates, reckons the liability as discharged (continned laughter). The Finance Committee differed from the Auditor General on this point. As to the Auditor General's peculiar views upon the subject of assets and liabilities, I will give another illustration. A sum of ;£32,ooo\vas received by the Government in the last year upoa what is termed a land deposit account. Pur_ chasers in the Auckland province pay their money by way of deposit, before their surveys are completed, and possession delivered. Till then the money is not brought l<» account, but held in suspense. The sum oi £32.000 was so held by the Government on the 30th June, 1855. The money hud been received and spent; all but the general balance remaining in the Treasurer's huuds, vow dwindled down to next

to nothing. (Hear, hear.) We had to account for the £32,000. It is to be bi ought to account of the income «f next year. The New Zealand Company will be entitled to their 4ihs, and the provinces to their distributive shares. The Finance committee regarded this as a liability. We asked the Auditor General's opinion on this point. He differed from the committee. According to his view, this £3*2,000 was an asset, not a liability. (Great laughter.) Says he " we have received the money ; it's absurd to call th.a a liability."(Renewed laughter.) '* True," we said, " we have received it, but we Lave spent it, and have to pay it. In our opinion thai is a liability." Tiie Auditor-General and the Finance committee were at issue on this point. (Great laughter.) I cannot bat think there is danger to the Colony, ■when its finances are being- administered by a gentleman who holds those peculiar opinions upon the nature of assets and liabilities. (Loud cries of '" Hear, hear.") In order to lesson the sum prop ised to be deducted from the Revenue, I moved an address to the Governor, praying him to send down a particular statement of such sums, in order that the House might understand clearly the footing on which they were about to deal with the surplus by way of appropriation. In answer to this address we received His Excellency's message, specifying amongst others, the sum of £13,000 for Native land purchase; the intention being to provide thereby for the outstanding liabilities I have mentioned. The aggregate of the sums specified as proposed deductions amounted to between 130 or £140,000, leaving betweeu 90 and £ 100,000 as estimated surplus available for the Provinces. Having obtained this statement, we forthwith adopted it as in the nature of a'compact between ihe Government and the House. So much,aud no more, was to be spent upon Native land purchases this year. Some of the Auckland members endeavoured to disturb this arrangement, and to authorise the Governor to spend without limit whatever he might-re-quire for the purchase of native lands, but the Huuse refused to depart from the terms of this compact. (Cheers.) Thus fixed, the Government sent down to the House a bill to enable a loan to be raised of £50,000 for the purchase of. native lauds. We deliberated, and ultimately rejected this bill—we did not think it right to burrow such a sum to buy native lamls,\vhilst we left our debts unprovided for, and especially looking to the character of the present system to which we should thus gire indirect sanction. We refused to trust the administration of such a fund to a Government in which we had no confidence. Toe Loan Bill being thus rejected, His Excellency, the present Governor, sent down a message, asking us in plain terms what the House wished to be done with reference to the purchase of native lands this year. There was som? difficulty in answering this question —we replied to it at i*i by a series of well considered resolution;,. We said in effect this— '• We desire nothing to be done to prejudice the Provinces. Do not touch their surplus. As to continuing the purchase of native lands we think it highly desirable to do so, provided it be done prudently and with advantage, but not so as to embarrass the finances of the General or Provincial Governments ;'but we record out disapproval of the present system. If more money is wanted for the purpose than the £13,00Q stated in the estimates—let it be provided f»r by loan." We gave the Government a vote of credit for £30,000 for general services. We have therefore (his contract,supposing it to bo kept, that no tnore shall he spent this year o^ native lands out of current Revenue than £13.000. Then we have un estimated surplus of about £90,000 for the Provinces—but this was merely on paper. We examined ihe collector of Customs of Auckland, as to the probable Customs Revenue for that Province for the current year. He estimated it at ahniit £.30,000. The Government estimated it at £60.000—.ye /educed the calculation by £10,000. Tiie Government estimated the Customs Revenue for Ocago at £10,000. We know the Revenue for Citmerbury is about £9,000 ; Otago hus about half the population of Canterbury. The Government eslitn.Ue is an ab-mrdity, we reduced it in our calculations to £6,000. ' So as to the otber Provinces. In like manner, the Lu-id X? venue was over-estimated. Upon the whole, we were obliged, in our calculations, to htrike-'ff £*s,ooofrom the Government estimates. That sum taken from the estimated surplus of £90,000, leaves but a small sum for division amongst the Provinces, and if the slate of thiugs should re-

main as we found and left them, I see little hope of saving any surplus Revenue for the provinces. The Government expenditure upon the purchase of Native lands was going on at the rate of £50,000 a year without control. You are thus on the brink of a volcano; you are treading on ashes. TUe time will come when the Government at Auckland will find itself without the means of meeting its demands, and the credit of the Colony will be in jeopardy. They will in their desperate struggle to save themselves seize our entire Reveuue, and devote the whole to their own purposes, leaving nothing for the Provinces. They have the power in their hands, and necessity will compel them to use it ; they have used it partially already. Doubtless that will be checked when you c.iv exercise a direct influence upon the Executive, through a responsible government. Till then you are exposed to this danger. In order to secure the Provinces as far as possible, I proposed to make a specific approp-iation of the amount of estimated surplus, for the service of the Provincial Governments, so guaranteeing to them that amount at least. That would throw the onus of providing the money on the General Government, and would insure the Provinces a certain Revenue at all events for the year. It is one mode, by which the finances of the Province maybe placed on a more secure footing, and it seems to me consistent with the Constitution Act. For the Provincial Governments are, I think, properly to be regarded as departments of Government for which the General Government is bound to provides. 3ut objections were made io this. Itw;is thought to involve too important a principle to be decided in so thin a House. Ultimately, the house agreed to a resolution pledging itself to make good to the "Provinces for the current year the amount of the estimated surplus. The House also agreed to a resolution declaring that during the currency of the year, the present system of advances to the Provinces ought to be continued, and should not, under any circumstances, be di-turbetl. (Loud cheers.) These resolutions, it is true, have not the force of law, but we may reasonably hope that they will be respected. I have, I trust, shewn the house sufficient reasons for adopting the resolutions now before it, and for re-affirming those passed in the last session. We may hope that such an expression of opinion may have its influence on the new Governor, —at all events it will not be lost upon the representatives svho may be sent from this province to the General Assembly. The circumstances I have mentioned demonstrate the necessity of a new and independent' Board of Audit, in which the provinces may feel confidence (loud cries of hear, hear.) I think a board preferable to a single auditor. Wherever the government may be, any individual holding that office would' be liable to be too much affected by the local influences by which he would be surrounded. What is wanted is, an independent and impartial tribunal to settle the public accounts —to adj-isl accounts between the provinces and the General Government, and to give to public accountants a final discharge. There is no such ■ authority lit pre82nt in the colony. The colonial accounts at present are audited by the authorities in England. (A i honourable member, —" What as to the resolutions about our laud fund?') With regard to those resolutions, the house having- agreed to vote £30,000 to assist the government for its general services, agreed to a further resolution to the effect that the embargo su present laid on the land funds of Canterbury ami Nelson ought to be taken off. Two reasons had chief weight in inducing the house to come to that conclusion. One. was, that the accounts were unsettled. Peudiinr their final adjustment, nm conslal that any money whatever has been overpaid to this province.—The other svas, that the course taken by government was a violation of Sir George Grey's Regulations. Upon the first point the government claims from this province, payment of £B,ooo—is that sum due ? I believe not (cheers), I believe that upon a true view of the accounts not one sixpence is due (hear, hear.) On the contrary, I believe money will be found to be due to this province (eiieers). How does the Auditor .-General make calculations? He charges against the Provincial account all the money spent up m native lands, and the whole expenditure of the government, le^al and illegal, since tiie Constitution Act. There are three periods of division—first, from January 18o:j to 30 th Sept., 1853, during which time the appropriation act passed by the • >ld Legislative council was in force. Secondly, from the first October 1853, to ibeSOlh of June,

1854, during which Sir George Grey's regulations were in force.—Thirdly, from the Ist July 1854, to the 30th June, 1855, for which period the revenue was appropriated by act of the General Assembly last year. During the first of these periods, the account showed that £17,000 had been expended without legal warrant.— During the second period, £15,000 had been expended, without warrant of law, beyond the amounts specified in Sir George Grey's regulations. During the third period there has also been an expenditure not warranted by law.— ■ X dd to these sums the proportion of the laud deposit account, £32,000, to the immediate distribution of which the provinces are declared to be entitled ;—and further the sum of £'41,000 iss.ied out of the public chest without the Gove imr's warrant, and lying as " unaccounted lor balances" in the hands of the Commissioners of Native Land purchases, and you will reach an amount, which if divided among the provinces as by law it ought to be, will more than cover the alleged overpayment to this province. But those accounts have still to be made up:—till then, the General Government has no pretence fur seizing our L;md Fund, and those accounts ought to be adjusted by an independent and impartial arbiter (hear, hear.) So the House of Representatives thought, and accordingly agreed to the resolution, that, pending the settlement of accounts, the payments to this province of its land fund out to be continued as heretofore. Bui there was another reason upon which great stress was laid. 1 pray the attention of hon. members to it. The government now proposes to charge the province with its full share of all the sums spent on the purchase of Native Lands in the northern island. You will observe, that in defending ourselves against this liability, we cannot expect the sympathy of the northern provinces. Our interests and theirs are, on this point, antagonistic. The house, in agreeing to the resolution, did so, almost against its will, but we appealed successfully to their Provincial sympathies. The charge now brought against this province by the General Government on account of Native Land purchases is a breach of Sir George Grey's circular and memorandum of December 1853, in which the principle is laid down that each province should provide the sums required for the purchase of its own native lands : —Oan any language be more distinct and clear ? Now the General Government attempts to shuffle out of the plain sense of these documents by seeking to treat them as issued for mere convenience of account, but the Finance Committee distinctly uegatived that construction. I wish you to see clearly the true slate of this question. Sir George Grey was compelled by the Provincial Government of Wellington, before he quilted the colony, to make extensive purchases of Native lands in that Province. Dr. Feather.stove, the Superintendent of Wellington, had, as it were, seized him by the throat, and would not let him go till he had purchased thai long desired territory—the Wairarapa,—which during the whole of his administration lie had neglected to obtain for the Wellington settlers. Hut how was that to be paid for ? You cau well imagine the effect which would have been produced in the Middle Island had Sir George Grey announced his intention to take their land fund for this purpose. A about of indignation from the Middle island would have accompanied him home, had ho adopted that course. So he issued his circular of December, 1853, announcing his intention to take the "money required for the purchase of Nitive lands from the Provincial chests of the provinces in which the purchases were to be made. That was the true history of the circular. Biit when did the G ■veruiuenl first repudiate this arrangement? Not till after the session of the General Assembly last year. Governor Wynyanl came down to the house last year, with a message, distinctly -recognising and acting upon Sir G. Grey's circular of December, 1853. [Here the hon. member referred to Col. Wyuyard's message, No. 3, Sess. 2, in which the Governor states his intention to adjust a payment made out of the Provincial chests of Nelson for native lands in Canterbury and Nelson, by a proportionate deduction from the land fund of Canterbury.] I pray the addition ot lion, members to this, because it appears to me decisive of this question. in this message the Governor states the deductions which he proposes to make from the Canterbury laud fund for native land purchases. Does lie say what Dr. Knight says, —" The Piovince of Canter'•Miry shall contribute its full quota of the whole charge of Native land puvcua&cb ? No, quite

the contrary, " Canterbury, shall pay," he says, *• for so much land us has been bought within that province, and no more." It shall repay Nelson its share of the money advanced out of the Nelson chest in proportion to the extent of laud purchased within the limits ofthe respective provinces. Thus he negatives the claim now made to make us contribute to the purchase of native lands in the Northern island. Übi expressio unius fit exclu-io alleriux. hi point of fact tlie determination lo repudiate Sir G. Grey's regulations, and to charge Canterbury with its quota towards land purchases in the north, is an evident after-thought of Dr. Knight, no doubtneeess'iiated by the enormous and unforeseen outlay which has been so recklessly made by the' Government, and which has become too large to be thrown upon any single province (loud cries of hear, hear, anll shame.) It is said that Sir G. Grey's regulations are illegal; but the House of Representatives thought that were ii so, the illegality oit£'bt not to beconected by a sudden suspension of the Provincial Revenue, but in some way which the Province might bear without inconvenience. (Hear and cheers.) If SirG. Grey's regulations are to be upset, and the Province of Canterbury is to be compelled to refund, let it be gradual, and not in too onerous a form. That was the ground on which, I believe, a majority of the House came, to the decision on this question. I have stated in a published letter from myself to the present Governor, the circumstances which occurred before I left Auckland, from which I was led to infer, that the Government intended to act on the resolution of the Housp, and to resume payment to this Province of its land fund. Notwithstanding what has occurred, I still believe that such is its intention, and that the instructions which have been received by the Commissioner of Crown Lands to a contrary effect have been transmitted by mistake (great sensation), and will be forthwith countermanded. The learned gentleman, after speaking for about two hours, sat down amid loud cheering from all pans of the House. Tuesday, Oct. 23. Mr. Rhodes presented a petition against the proposed tramway between Christehurch and Sumner, signed by forty persons chieflyresidents of Akaroa and the neighbourhood. Mr. R. stated that this petition, although late, was one proof that th.c decisi"ii the house had come to on the subject was satisfactory to the people. The address to his Excellency was brought up and agreed to, with a few veibal alterations, and a deputation appointed to wait on His Excellency the Governor on his arrival in the Province. The following message from His Honor the Superintendent, proroguing the Council, was then read. "The Superintendent regrets that he is still unable to address the Provincial Council in person. He is gratified to find that the progress the Council have made in the despatch of business enables him to relieve them from further attendance on their public duties. The Superintendent fully concurs in the propriety of the vote which the Council have passed for the reception and entertainment of his Excellency the Governor on his expected arrival in this Province. He also agrees most cordially with them in the resolution they have passed with reference to the financial arrangements at present subsisting between the General and Provincial Governments, and the pressing necessity there is for some final adjustment by the General Assembly, by which the Provinces may know the precise amount of funds at|theircontrol, and be no longer dependent on the will of an irresponsible Executive. The Superintendent assents to the alterations which the Council have made in the Land Regulations, and in accordance with the resolution they have passed, he will transmit them without delay to his Excellency the Governor with an urgent recommendation to him lo issue them as early as possible under the provisions of the " Waste Lands' Act." He approves also of the Census Ordinance, and the Canterbury Association's Reserves' Ordinance, and hereby declares his assent to them on behalf of his Excellency the Governor. It only remains for the Superintendent to prorogue the Council, and he hereby declares it lo be prorogued till Tuesday, the 4th day of March, 1856, and it stands prorogued to that day accordingly.' 1 (Signed) James Edwaud Fitz Gerald. October 23, 185 p.