Provincial Council.

Lyttelton Times, Volume V, Issue 310, 20 October 1855, Page 3

Provincial Council.

Tuesday. October 16th. Present — The Speaker, Messrs. Tancred, Brittan, Hamilton, Dampier, Thomson, Fooks, Ward, Hall, Ollivier, Blakiston, Moore, Bray, Sewell, Donald, Barker, J. and S. Bealey, Packer, and Westenra. Dr. Donald presented a petition from Lyttelton againstany alteration in the plans of the Sumner road, and praying for its immediate completion. Mr. Ollivier presented a petition from the, owners and occupiers of land in and about Christchurch, praying for the formation of a tramway. Mr. Ollivier then rose to bring under the attention of the Council the motion of which he had given notice, in reference to the communication with the Port. He regretted that so important a subject had not fallen into the hands of one better able to deal with the case. Of all the serious questions, which had been under the consideration of that Council, this probably was the most important; the most important because it vitally affected the immediate interests of nearly every class in the Province. It was unfortunately surrounded with difficulties, because of the various interests at slake. But he begged the House would not for one moment suppose that he was influenced by those narrow-minded views of setting up the interests of the Plains in antagonism to those of tbe Port. It was a question materially affecting their prosperity as a Province, and not to be narrowed within the scope of such selfish views. In order to arrive at a satisfactory conclusion, it would be necessary, in the consideration of the subject, to take a brief view of what bad been done towards opening up the communication with tbe Port town. But he thought they might confine themselves to the road by Sumner and the water communication. The resolution he had to propose, sets out by seeking a more expeditions means of communication with the shipping port of the Province. Now, that Port, he held to he Lyttelton. .He had no sympathy with those who sought to ignore the position or the claims or the capabilities of the port town. There and there only in his belief could the import and export trade of this Province-be carried 'oil With anything approaching to success. It was idle to talk of the advantages of this or thai, bay, when brought into comparison with this harbour, the finest and probably the most capacious of the South. The great point, then, with the producers ofthe plains was to discover a means b which they could get to this haven. There was the Sumner road, a road measured from Christchurch to its terminus, of 12 miles in length, and as they approached to Lyttelton along a dangerous "rock. It was proposed to complete this line of road immediately, and the petition which had that morning been laid upon the table of the house advocated that course, as the means that would at once resolve the difficulty. He ventured, however, to differ with its advocates, not that he objected to the line of road, that he accepted as un fait accompli. The Council had, after a careful consideration of the various plans proposed, come to the decision that this was the best line, and by that vote he was bound ; it was not the line, but it was the almost insurmountable difficulties which it appeared to present to its accomplishment on ihe one hand, and the cost of traffic which would of necessity fall upon the producers on the other, to which he objected. The growers were now called upon to pay a tax of something like 355. per ton before they could place their produce on board a vessel lying in the harbour of Lyttelton ; for example, say that it cost 25s.^to transport ll from the Christchurch Quay to the Port, there was fully 10s. more for its carriage to the Quay, and tlie expences of. landing, &c. But this heavy charge was not all. There was beyond it, as the House well knew, the fearful loss by wast*, by rotting, and above all by the unpardonable delay in the transmission of their produce. The Sumner road, when opened, was intended to remedy all these evils. He would at once admit, that it might remove some of them, hut it would not do all they required. He had heard it said that when this road was completed, a farmer could with ease run his team with a ton weight of produce into the port town, and bring back a return load of another ton in a day. Thisy was one of the many absurdities, that had been hazarded. Their chief object was the economy of time, as well as labour, and he would ask where would he the economy of time in this

means of communication ? Let him suppose the case of a farmer having 20 tons of potatoes to deliverer in the Port, look at the loss of time and the cost of such a work. One day to go into port, another to return, on an average 3 tons a week for each team. It wuild take 7 teams to carry this amount of produce in within the week, and at the present rate of wages and price of labour at a cost equivalent to nearly £3 per ton. He would not pause to consider any of the difficulties which were said to exist in the formation of the road itself, while there was this fundamental objection to it as a dray road. He would ask the house to consider the position in which the producers of the Plains were placed "in reference to this matter. Hitherto, or until the last harvest, they hud required all they grew for their own sustenance, but the natural increase of population, the impetus given to industrial occupations, and the growing wealth of the province, had now placed them in possession of a vast amount of surplus produce, and for every bushel they consumed they had one to export. There would be nearly 5000 tons of produce to export in the coming year, if we took into consideration thejoint operations of the agiicultural and pastoral interests ; no wonder then, that it became a question of vital importance to them how they were to get this produce away ? It was idle to say that the boats of to-day could do it, even if they were more active in the trade than they were acknowledged to be. What then was their remedy ? He dared to say it consisted in the tramroad, and for many reasons he was drawn to this conclusion. First, because of its certainty of communication ; secondly, because of its cheapness, and because of its power to carry a sufficiently large amount of their produce within a short time. As regards its certainty there was he thought but little doubt on this score. As regarded its cheapness, he would upon the authority of those who had several years practical experience of railway traffic in England, and that in the goods department, give to the house an outline of what he considered would be the cost of the traffic. In England, the cost of carrying a ton of the class of produce such as corn, sugar in hogsheads, potaioes, and the like, was 1-Jd. per miie, or along a line like theirs from Christchurch to the shipping port, of 12 miles, Is. 6d. for the entire distance. Making every allowance then for the difference in the value of labour, which might here be estimated at three times that of England, he was within hounds if he put down 10s. per ton for the traffic —which exceeded six times that of England— and this, while it was a reasonable price on the one handjguaranteed to them rapidity of communication. If we took the amount of traffic at 6,000 tons Mn and out, it would realise an income towards the maintenance of the way of £3,000 a-year. He would for one moment beg to draw the attention of the House to the objections raised try the Port to this road. They demanded the completion of the Sumner road, because of the contract that had been made, but he asked what was to be done with the produce of the coming season ? Was the surplus produce of the Plains to he placed iv jeopardy ? Were they to he exposed to the chances of immense loss ? simply, to afford the inhabitants of the Port the gratification of using this road, perchance for a season or two, in advance of the time in which it could lie completed under tlie most adverse circumstances. This was a question which affected the Port interest vitally in one sense, and was one with which they had virtually nothing to do in another. It affected them thus far—it was in the highest degree to the interest of the Port that every possible facility should be given them to enable vessels trading thereto clear out with expedition. They all knew what great and constant complaints were made by the owners and captains of vessels trading with this place, by reason of their unreasonable detention for cargo. Many vessels had gone away in ballast. He knew of instances in which owners of vessels had come here, in order to ascertain our capabilities for commerce. They.had visited the Plains; they had seen that we were in a condition to grow successfully any amount of produce in a high state of perfection—produce too, at so reasonable a price when contrasted with that ofthe .sdjoining colonies, as to 'make it a staple article for commercial operations. They were willing to bring us the productions of these colonies in exchange for our own, but what was the impediment? The road. They had gone and carried away with them this story of the fatness of the land, but with it our incapacity for trade, by reason of this impassable barrier, and thus it was that

others were deterred from coining here. It was manifest, that if this barrier was removed, they removed the only obstacle to tire'aggrandizement of their .shipping port. He had said it was the best harbour «f the South, and he believed in his heart that if these impediments could be overcome at any cost, that Lyttelton could aud would soon become the Liverpool of the South seas. It would effectualiy raise up the Port town to the position of a great commercial city, instead of its dwindling, as it must do, into a mere port of entry for goods received secondhand from Wellington or elsewhere. Thus far it was a port question, aud a provincial one : beyond this, he dared to say the Port had nothing to do with it. If the cost of the permanent way was the obstacle, he would ask, Who paid the cost? Not the Port certainly. It was the growers who paid the cost of conveying their produce to the point of shipment, and they paid, as-they \yeli knew, all the cost of the freight of goods from the.ship's side to the Plains. If they admitted this position, it was surely not asking too much that there should be some concession made to their openly expressed wish, and particularly so, when they declared that there was no mental reservation, no ulterior intention to stop short of the Port itself. The road must have a beginning, and they who paid the money had surely the right to ask that it should be constructed on that side first where the traffic began. He was convinced that tbe greatest possible misapprehension existed upon the subject in Lyttelton, and he feared that it was in a measure fostered for the moment by some whose motives were of too selfish a character to bear the smallest scrutiny. The resolution asked the house to affirm the tramway as far as Sumner to start with. From thence it was .intended to carry the produce round in boats or steamers. This would probably satisfy their wants for the coming season, if taken in connection with the awakening activity of the owners of the boats at present working. For he was happy to be able to add, that they were beginning to show some consideration for their wants by combined energy in their operations— they had actually put on a horse to tug their vessels up the river at all times ofthe wind or tide. Their necessity was a paramount one, if the port would not, with this clear evidence of their own interest before them, help them, then they would be driven to the position of finding means for taking away their produce by themselves. It was a matter of life and death ; they could not afford to trifle with the question ; if they found no ready sale for their produce, then it followed as a necessary consequence that their operations would be checked, their means of livelihood gone, and he would ask if you destroy this producing power which may he the means not only of turning the balance of trade in your favour, but of giving a commercial character to your Province, what can be your hope for the future ? He implored the house to pause before it negatived ttie motion. Of this he was morally certain, tramway or railway they must have. If rejected to-day, it would only be to spring lip another year with increased determination. There were many other points of view and inexhaustible arguments in favour of this road, hut he would not weary the house with the subject, but if the opportunity was afforded him, he would avail himself of his privilege to reply to the remarks which might fall from hon. gentlemen on the subject. He would conclude, therefore, by moving the resolution of which he had given notice : "That this Council taking into consideration the great increase in the amount of the agricultural produce of the Plains, and the necessity which exists for immediately securing a more expeditious communication with the shipping port of the Province, and having in view the difficulties attending upon the completion ofthe Sumner Road according to the plans at present in operation, is of opinion that a tramway should be laid down from Christchurch to Sumner; and respectfully pray that his honor will take such measures as may appear desirable, in order to raise the funds required for such purpose by loan, to he secured by Government Debentures, in aid of the unappropriated balance of the vote of the Council for works on the Stunner road, at present in the hands of the Provincial Treasurer." Dr. Barker seconded the motion. He renreited he was unable from severe indisposition to address ?the house at any length. He had only just risen from his bed. He was astonished to find any one opposed to the plan. He had met with no oue who had any really tangible

objection to make to the project. If tbe tramway was laid down the whole way, it would be a step in the rigl l direction. It would not destroy other means of communication, but would place it on a footing of security, and create a wholesome steady trade. It had been said they had no data to go upon, but they had that which could alone guide them, viz.," the Provincial Engineer's estimates. If they were wrong, he alone was responsible for it. He bad said the produce could be got round this summer, and he saw no reason why it should not be. A great deal was said about, the Sumner road as a cart road, but what was the traffic upon it? What would it be? He dared to say it would be nothing, and that by reason of the natural difficulties which the road presented. The most prominent objection he had heard made was from Lyttelton, that the road should not he begun at Christchurch. They demanded as a pledge for our good faith that it should begin at Lyttelton and end at Sumner. Would that mend the matter ? They wanted to get their produce to Sumner, to the point of shipping, where the road to Lyttelton began, and without this a vast amount of produce would be destroyed. Dr. Donald had listened most attentively to the speeches of the mover and seconder of the resolution. He thought much declamation had been wasted to prove ihe great importance of the subject,—noi to the Port or the Plains as isolated from each other, but to the Province at large. The speech ofthe hon. the mover of the resolution was the most ill-advised he had ever listened to. It raised the very question they sought to prevent, viz., antagonism between the Port and the Piaius. He emphatically denied that the people of Lyttelton ever desired lhat the road should he begun at lhat end. They bad throughout contended for the completion ofthe contract ' which the .Government had enteied into, to make a good ct.it road, This was their right, and they would not depart from it, they held all deviation of the Revenues voted for that purpose to be a breach of faith. There was no diversity of interest on the other side "of that hill; but unfortunately the expressions which were reported to have been used elsewhere upon this subject, fostered an angry feeling because they were as uncalled for as impolitic. It was said they had no peculiar interest in the Port—that they produced nothing—that on the Plains was the great interest which was hereafter to give commercial value to their operations. He should be ashamed to say, although represeutingthe Port town,thathewas the representative of port interests. He was there to defend the interest of tlie province, and he thought the tramway if opened tomorrow would meet but one necessity, it would bring in probably sugar and tea, and take away corn and potatoes; but the cart road takes everything from the Tilbury to the Dray and enables a system of visiting and intercourse between the towns. The sustenance of a tramway required more than a mere goods traffic to make it remunerative; they well knew that it was the passenger traffic that paid the cost. The plant again was costly. He could show that every sleeper cost Bs. in France before it was laid down, and he believed that every practical man dissented from ihe position which had been attempted to be substantiated. The Pn> viuuial Surveyor, a high authority in this matter, had objected to it, and the petition which he had presented to that house was an evidence of the f;tct that the commercial men do so, and all farmers to whom he had spoken repudiated it also. jVIr. Hall said that whatever were the abstract merits of the proposal, good in itself or not, that was not now the question ; the house was not in a position to erne to a decision upon tbe subject from the absence of evidence. We are asled to de»ote to this purpose all the unappropriated money which has been voted by this Council for the construction of the Sumner R-ad, and to borrow the rest required, and we are asked to arrive at this conclusion without any report from the Provincial Engineer as to ultimate cost, or to the time in which the work would be completed. He might be told the Provincial Engineer had said something on the subject at a public meeting, hut was that to be a guidance for them. Before they could he justified in conferring such large' authority as this resolution sought to delegate to the government, they ought to look lor the most satisfactory report upon this subject from some constituted authority. He mi«ht then rest his opposition to it upon the ground thai he could not justify the] resolution, but he did so also because he could not agree in the expressions which had fallen from the hon

Gentleman (Mr. Ollivier) as to the temper of the people of Lyttelton. He had ascribed it to selfiishness. His experience had shewn him that the objection to the completion of the Sumner Road arose from a small portion of the community. There were more who condemned the tramway than approved of it. The hon. gentleman had stated the road was a safe, easy, and a feasible one, that he had been compelled to bring the subject forward by reason of the duty he owed to his constituents. But it was no duty to his constituents to waste the public money thus rashly. He agreed however in all that had fallen from the lion, gentleman in reference to the necessity for something being done, even in the present year ; the producers of the plains might otherwise be placed iv a position of great difficulty. What was the cause of the difficulty ? where had it stopped ? their produce got as far as the Quay, and there it waited until it rotted, and could he got no further. If the road communication extended beyond this point, that difficulty would be removed. Increase therefore the boat power; but if they could not get that, then there was the laying on of steam power over the bar, and extending the road communication further to Sumner. That extension would be agreataccoinmodation to the growers and producers, hut hedoubted, indeedhekuew the wool produce could not be depended upon as part of the tonnage the hon. gentlemvn had spoken of. For example,—the wool from the south, would be exported by way of Timaru, and that at the north at Kaiapoi. Christchurch would take all the produce between these places, but about Sumner there would be a great objection ; they would have to take it along a metalled road, but the benefit they would derive would be counterbalanced by the expense. The next objection was that the road and the tramway could not go together, the one put an end to the other. His idea was that the only practical means of communication was by mean's of a good practical cart road to Sumner, and from thence by means of boats which might make much more frequent trips than had hither-, to been made. In support of this position, he would quote the letter from his hon. friend the Collector of Customs :—" A steamer of 40 tons burthen, '-would provide all the power they at present needed, and would give accommodation for passenger traffic also. It would carry 3,000 tons of produce, and would furnish the most ample means of communication with the shipping port." ;'He would move therefore "that with a view of providing for the transmission to the port of shipment of the agricultural and other produce of the ensuing season, it is desirable that a metalled cart road between Christchurch and Sunnier should be completed without delay.1' Dr. Donald seconded the amendment. Mr. S. Bkaley said he agreed with the terms of the amendment. They.'were already suffering from the effects of a mischievous monopoly, and he could not see how it was to he relieved by the tramway. A few persons might be benefitted by being able to run their waggons over it. Draying had 'not become a trade in this Province, and he thought that if a good substantial cart road was completed, it would be a means to enable persons to cart produce when they could do nothing else. In wet weather, a fanner was unable to work on his farm, but he might then take his produce to the point of shipment. He looked at the relative advantages of shipping at the Quay and at the Shag Rock, and he gave the latter the preference, because the bar could be taken at times when vessels at the Quay would be occupied running down the river. So far then, he thought it desirable to get the produce to the Sumner bar. It was a subject of vital importance to them all, it was not a casein which he was directly interested, but, in a few years, it might be his own. Mr. Dampier felt any departure from the original intention of the Government to complete the Sumner road would be a breach of faith. He would support the amendment for the same reasons which the hon. gentleman (Mr. Hall) had advanced,—the absence of eviaence before the House to lead it to a satisfactory conclusion. They would have to incur a large amount of public debt, and it was questionable if the working of the road would pay the cost. It seemed to him that the great objection to the completion of the road was occasioned by the tunnel. Obstacles which the Provincial Engineer could not overcome had arisen, and the readiest means of getting over the difficulty appears to be to set aside the road altogether, aud resort to a tramway.

After a few words from Mr. J. Bealey,— Mr. Blakiston said this was one of those occasions when it would be .impolitic to give a silent vote. A tramway might, he conceived, be very well so long as they could depend upon high prices, but these failing, they would be placed in a serious strait. He thought it would be far better to encourage private enterprise in placing a sufficient steam force upon the river to meet tbe emergency. He thought there had been a great deal too much said upon the subject of private interests, they ought never to have been imported into the question at all. He should support the amendment. Mr. Brittan said there was a difference of opinion upon the Government bench on this question. His own opinion was decidedly in favour of a tramway. He believed they must ignore all the proceedings of the old world if they adopted the opposite course. He thought the case had been made out for improved communication between Christchurch and Lyttelton, but the more he heard of the arguments having reference to the cart road, the more he saw a difficulty in the way. The next thing was the tram road. That was a safe and easy means of traffic, and could be established in a short space of time, and he would go great lengths to ?^ complish it. The resolution before the House was, however, the matter they had to deal with ; and, although be would vote for it as the best means of communication under present circumstances, yet the resolution asked the House to divert money from the object to which it had been voted, and the Government to-pledge itself to raising a sum of money by debentures, and while he approved ofthe road, ne disapproved of the means by which the road was to be formed. He thought the discussion had given rise to a satisfactory expression of opinion. His hon. friend Mr. Ollivier had asked for leave to withdraw the motion, and he hoped that appeal would be assented to. Dr. Moore said he could hardly concur in the opinion that it was sufficient that they should meet there to discuss questions of interest, and separate without coming to some action upon the subject. He thought the?produce could be effectually removed by means of a steamer with decked boats. That would be the easiest and the readiest means of communication. If the hon. gentleman was permitted to withdraw his motion, he yet hoped the House \Vould proceed to express its opinion upon some scheme that »vould overcome the difficulty which surrounded them. The amendment was then put and carried by a majority of 15 to 3. Tlie House then went into Committee upon the Canterbury Association Reserves Bill, aud passed through its several clauses—exceptiug clause 2, which was reserved. A very lengthened discussion took place, but 'altogether devoid of general interest.