Provincial Council.

Lyttelton Times, Volume V, Issue 277, 27 June 1855, Page 3

Provincial Council.

Tuesday,. June 19. (Continued from our last.) •Mr. Biuttan : I rise, Sir, in pursuance of the notice I have {riven, to submit to the council a series of resolutions having for their object to ascertain the views of honourable members in reference to a settlement of the affairs of the Canterbury Association in connection with this province. In doing so, Sir, I think it will be Convenient'that I should open the discussion by a review of the entire case as dealt with in all the resolutions, and having done so, then to submit each separately for the discussion and decision of the house. Sir, in the discharge of this duty, I shall confine myself as closely as possible to the special object in view, which I take to be; to elicit, from the Council .whether it is of opinion that the time has arrived when the long pending question of accounts between the Province and the members of the Association, should be settled, and whether it is of opinion that it is expedient to accept the properties now held by those gentlemen, accepting: at the snrae time the pecuniary liabilities under which they are placed. This, Sir, I take it, is the simple question, and I shall endeavour to confine my-.' sflf to it, avoiding all unnecessary allusion to the fruitful topics for declamation afforded by the h.istory of'the Association, its establishment, the objects it aimed to accomplish, the success or failure of the scheme, its alleged backsliding or shortcomings ; all these matters I shall leave to those honorable members, if there are any present, who think they legitimately enter into the matter at present to be considered. I do not think they do, and I shall therefore pass them by, and proceed at once to what I think is the real business before us.' T take then, Sir, the matter as it stands at the present moment. The agent of the Association .(Mr. Sewell) is here, prepared on the part of the Association to transfer to the Province- all that is left to it, of its functions, powers, and authorities, which under the Constitution Act it is empowered to do, and under which act also the. Province is empowered to accept them. But the Association has also property, real and personal, to part with, and the main object now under discussion is to elicit from the Council its opinion-whether it will accept.that property, accepting at the same time the liabilities of the; Association. It is my duty, Sir, here to state, that in reference to this property, serious doubts are entertained by many persons as to the legality of the Association's title to the most valuable part of it—l refer to the Town Reserves. Sir, I will not raise a discussion on that point. I leave it to those more learned in the law than myself to do so. I will simply state that the Government does not think those doubts should stop the negotiation, and that it would be most unwise to attempt to litigate the point, which could only be done at an enormous expense of time and money, and at what is not. less, to be deprecated, at the expense of muwh excitement and irritation in the public mind whilst such litigation is pending. We therefore have no hesitation in saying that it will be our wisdom to take the conveyance of that property from the Association without questioning their title, and to. that the Government is more strongly moved, since the Crown (the only party in a position to dispute the title) has through its representative at Auckland expressly staled in writing its perfect readiness to concur in any act which may be necessary to make the transfer' valid and complete. This, then, is simply the suite of my case. If I were to occupy the attention of the Council for another hour, to this point I should come at last. The agent ishere ready on behalf of the Association to transfer its property. Is the Province disposed to accept it, accepting at the same time its liabilities ? Assuming for the sake-of argument that the Council is willing, and that it will adopt the resolution which affirms that it is expedient to do so, then the next stage in the discussion will be to investigate the terms, and to ascertain what are the liabilities, and what the assets. And this leads me to the labours of, the two committees appointed to investigate the Sir, I cannot refrain from expressing here the deep obligation the Council is under to the committee of the last session for the pains and labour it bestowed in the investigation, and the able report which it laid before the house. Without, however, detaining the Council with a minute recital of figures, I may say that eventually the agent and the committee* have ndniiited the liabilities to be as follows— £ 10,000 a mortgage on the miscellaneous property, '

and £17,905 13s. 5d., consisting of monies advanced by members of the Association iii England in 6iims spent over and above their receipts. This is the amount up'to June, 1853 To this has to be added a supplemental account which consists mainly of expenditure and receipts since the agent has been in New Zealand, and which brings the account down to the end of the year 1854. The balance of this account increases the debt by £825 4s Bd. .There is then a charge of interest on the monies which have been advanced, which amounts to £2,228 12s 6d. making a gross total of £30,959 10s 7d. From this, however, sundry deductions have to be made. The investigation of the committee has discovered thai£2994 1 Is9d. out of this amount belongs to the Ecclesiastical and • Educational fund, arid -has therefore to be charged on that estate. Then there is an item of £500 charged for land reserved as Quarantine Ground, which I think cannot be sustained. These two amounts reduce the total liabilities to £27,464 18s. lOd. But it is here my duty to state iha't the committee has taken exceptions to other items, which will be found enumerated in appendix C of the report. .Those excepted sums have reference to the expenditure of money in England, and amount altogether to £1,312 10s. 6d. It will be for the council to determine whether or not it will adopt the iecoinmendations of the committee. I have no hesitation,.sir, in leading off with the declaration of my own opinion in this matter. I do not think we are in a position at this distance of time and place to form a correct judgment of the expediency of those items of expenditure. But, sir, 1 go further. I think it will amount to ungenerous criticism to do so. I find within a space of about two years the Association's expenditure on the purposes of Immigration" was upwards of £85.000, with which money they conveyed some 4,000 souls' and 6,000 tons of goods some 16,000 miles ; they expended also in the same time upwards of £67,000 in miscellaneous and public works ; and now on an investigation of their accounts, I find that only £1,300 is taken exception to, and even those items, for all I know, may he explained. This fact appears to me to he al- - most a marvel in so great an undertaking, and to redound greatly to the credit of the Association. Supposing then the council should accept those sums as part of the liabilities, the amount which the province would have to accept would be about, in round numbers, £27,000. We then have to ask what property have they to offer to warrant our taking this debt ? I hold in my hand a schedule of their property. It consists mostly of land with buildings, and the property to which 1 referred before—the Town Reserves. Apait from the latter, I find the rental to be some £700 per annum. Mr. Seweix: It is over £900 per annum. Mr. Brittan : So mncli the better. That calculated at 10 years' purchase, which taking al! the property together has been thought a reasonable estimate, will represent £9,000. But the principal property is the Town Reserves. Including Hagley Park and the Government Domain they comprise 961 acres. Supposing that 461 are retained fora park and a government domain, there would remain 500 acres for disposal; I have taken the trouble to ascertain from various persons the value of tin's property, and I find by common consent that spreading the purchase over a few years the value ought not to be estimated at less than £50 per acre. That would repiesent £25,000. Then there are the chattels of the Association, such as the maps and furniture of the land office, which have been valued at from £6,000 to £8,000. It wid be seen that these amounts put together will far more than meet, the liabilities the province will have to assume. Supposing then these statements to be approved of by the council, and that it should deem it wise to accept the transfer with the liabilities, the next question is, how are those liabilities to be discharged. Sii, I am able, very briefly, to clear that part of the matter up. The agent.of the Association is willing to accept debentures for the full amount, bearing interest at 6 per cent. It will have to be determined how long they shall run. But there will probably be little difficulty in that. The agent will probably be anxious for a longer time than the province will care to accept. Should this be also received by the council, then all difficulties will be cleared, and I shall only have further to suggest that these resolutions be transmitted to His Honor, and that he be requested to, prepare a bill in accordance with them forthwith. I have now, Sir, called the at*

tention of the house to all the principal points connected with the subject ' which at prerseht occur to my mind. I feel conscious," Sir, painfully conscious, that I have very imperfectly performed my task. But I have been less desirous of indulging in ■ declamation than of laying before the Council a simple and intelligible recital of facts, a statement which while it kept nothing essential back should contain nothing calculated to excite controversy or angry feeling. If any such should arise in the course of this discussion I am purposed that it shall not spring from provocation on my part. But, Sir, I'should not acquit myself of my sense of duty, if I were to stop here; and if I did not ask honourable members to approach the discussion in the same spirit.- I would recall to their memories some of the prominent points connected with the early history of the Canterbury Association. I would ask them to remember the disinterestedness, the pure philanthrophy, the religious zeal, which moved the founders of this settlement to undertake its establishment' I 'would also ask them to remember the contumely, the reproaches, the calumnies, which have been heaped upon them on account of the presumed failure of the scheme. Nor is this all ; those noblemen and gentlemen, instead of receiving the praise which was their due, have been held up to public scorn as having been guilty, not merely of malversation of trust, but of deliberate fraud and dishonesty of purpose. They have been represented as having without sufficient previous enquiry, wantonly seduced a number of their confiding countrymen to commit themselves, their fortunes, their families, and thoir lives to a wild adventure,—of having recklessly transported them to a barren rock; and of having left them there helplessly exposed-to all the miseries and dangers'of a sterile soil and an iingenial climate. These foul aspersions, unhappily too much countenanced by the misrepresentations of n&any of the settlers themselves, they have had to bear; and they have borne them with a meekness and patience not less to be admired than are the motives which first prompted "them to their work. 1 would ask lion, gentlemen to remember all this ; and now when they are about to perform the last act of business with them, when they are about to sever all connection, save that of sympathy, which I hope will never cease to exist; I ask them to do so, in a manner which shall convey some balm to those wounded feelings, some slight compensation for the mortifications they 'have had to endure and the anxieties through which they have had to pass;—to show to the world sit large, to their defames and ours, that we who know all the facts know better how to estimate their worth and appreciate the services they have rendered us. Sir, I have never hesitated and never shall hesitate.to avow my sense of obligation and gratitude to those gentlemen, and I shall be glad indeed if those feelings are shared with me, as I believe they are by this Council ; and that in the discussion on which we have entered we shall abstain from all trifling and unprofitable carpings, and all ungenerous criticism, a course which I venture to think will not only be the most creditable and most graceful on our parts, but which I feel assured will, also prove that which «vill he most acceptable to"a very large majority of the people of the Province.* (The hon. gentleman sat down amid general applause.) Mr. Brittan then moved the resolutions as follows :— That it is expedient that an arrangement be made for settling the affairs of the Canterbury Association on the following' terms; — l.'That the powers now vested in the Canterbury Association be transferred to the Province. 2. That all the property real and personal of the Association be transferred to the Provincial Government. 3. That provision be made for the debt incurred by t?ie Canterbury Association in frunding the Canterbury Settlement, to an amount not exceeding £ 4. That the suni necessary for liquidating such debt be raised by debentures charged on the general revenues of the Province, such debentures to bear interest at a rate not exceeding 6 per cent, per annum. 5. That the above resolutions be transmitted to his Honor the Superintendent, and that he be respectfully requested to send down a bill forth with to carry the above recited objects into effect. Mr. Packer seconded the motion.

Mr. Fooks said he was desirous of removing any impression which might have arisen by reason of any anxiety that lie had shown from time to time in urging on the Committee to make their Teport, that thereby he was inimical ■to a settlement of this question ; the motives which had actuated his conduct had been of a contrary character. No member of this Council could be more anxious than he was to bring the matters between the Canterbury Association and the Province to an adjustment, before any further difficulties should arise to prevent it, and he trusted it would now be accomplished in a satisfactory and equitable manner. He congratulated the Government on the very able way in which that measure had been introduced and explained. The word "powers," in the first resolution, was an unfortunate expression ; it suggested feelings of a painful character — inasmuch as the powers which the Association possessed were by some mismanagement, or at events some untoward event, withdrawn by the interposition of the Colonial office, and'this, after the Constitution Act had passed, in which was a clause expressly inserted to enable (hem to transfer all their powers, including all the extensive Lands in the Canterbury Block to this Council. He could have imagined this resolution written by the lion, member Mr. Sewell with undoubted self-satisfaction before he left Adelphi Terrace, had he not known to the contrary, that it had recently dropped from his pocket, and had been picked up by the lion, member at the head of the Government. (Laughter.) Unfortunately those which the Association once possessed were not now transferable, and we must therefore make the best of what is left. There are some items in the accounts presented which will require explanation, and he would suggest the desirability of postponing a final decision for a short time, especially as it was shewn by the supplemental report of the committee that a discrepancy i in the a2counts to the amount of nearly £1,000 had only just been discovered. He was also desirous of drawing the attention of the Government to the Fund called the » Lyttelton Trust Fund," tfhd to consider whether it would not be politic and advisable to take that trust also. He understood there was no objection on the part of their agent. His opinion was that H should be included in the arrangement. Those noblemen and gentlemen will then, in every sense, have completed their contract with the colonists, and it can never be said that any advantage whatever was desired by them in purchasing land, not that he believed they would derive any profit from that investment, if it should not be taken by the Province. He (Mr. b ; ) wished to take this opportunity of .paying Ins humble tribute to the disinterestedness of character shown by the promoters of the Canterbury scheme ; and, to repeat the assertion so often made, that it is a failure,—wherein is the failure? Are we not a united, contented, and prosperous community ? Whatever errors may have been committed in the management of the Associations affairs, they may be consoled by the fact that they have succeeded in forming a home for an Englishman, such as is not lobe excelled nr any other colony under the British Crown, tie had heard also very recently a statement made in this Council, that this was no Vi^L.? Church of England Settlement—he (Mr. t.) was astonished at such an assertion— 2*ot a church of England settlement?— witness the construction of this Council— what are the vast majority of the colonists? Is it l)ot as inuc-h a Church Settlement as it was ever intended or perhaps desirable that it should be ? -He yielded to no man in feeling for free toleral tion in matters of religion, but he ventured to assert that present and future generations will cherish the name of the Canterbury Association for founding a colony «hen the first consideration was, Ecclesiastical Establishment on the •sound and pure principles of that of the mother country as established at the Reformation. He should support the resolution, reserving ins right to support any amendments in com°Mr. Packer said it was due to the operations ot me Committee that the accounts should be gone iut«. rhey neither pressed, nor did they rinti P01 fnt '* fi-"reS- II WM »° l0»S« • f ma"erf conjecture what the amount should he He qune agreed with his hon. friend and c«League that in an account of so great a magnitude, the difference W( ,s bardlv worth their consideration. He would urge "therefore that the amount be left blank, and disposed of here-

The house then went into committee on the Waste Lauds' Bill. A very animated discussion was occasioned by the reading of clause 57, in reference to the pre-emptive rights ..under the Association, in which several lion, members joined. The clause was ultimately postponed for further consideration. A clause was inserted on the motion of Mr. Thomson for the purposes of securing a reservation of lands adjacent to towns for the purposes of hundreds. The regulations were then disposed of with the exception of- two or three clauses left for re-consideration. The chairman having reported progress, the Speaker resumed. In answei to a question from Mr. Hall, Mr. Brittan said that despatches had been received from the Emigration agent, in which he stated that the Charlotte Agnes, would sail on the 14th April, with from 120 to 130 emigrants, a great number of whom had paid their own passage'money. Some little difficulty had aeain arisen in consequence of the remittances from this settlement not having reached Mr. Harman, from which he had been again relieved by one of those untiring acts of generosity on the pun of a gentleman who seemed to have their interest most deeply at heart, he had again placed £500 in the hands of their agent —that gentleman was Mr. Selfe Selfe (hear, hear). The house then adjourned. Wednesday, June 20. The house went into committee on the Waste Lands' Bill. Mr. Bhittan moved the adoption of a clause in substitution of clause 34 of deregulations, by which the price of the land was fixed at 10s. per acre, and also the insertion of the following resolutions in reference to a local improvement fund :— ■ Every person applying for any rural land under these regulations shall contribute the sum of 30s. in respect, of every acre of such land by way of special contribution, and shall pay the same to (he Provincial' Treasurer to the credit of a fund to be called the local improvement fund. The Provincial Treasurer shall keep a separate account of the local improvement fund, and shall expend the same in such manner as shall be directed by the Superintendent and Provincial Council. Provided that the'said fund shall be expended solely in the construction of »oads and bridges, and other works of public utility within the Province, and in defraying the cost of the immigration of settlers into the Province, and for uo other purposes whatsoever. These resolutions occasioned a very lengthened discussion, which was joined.in by Messrs. Hall, Thompson. Tancred, Barker, Bray, and others. They were, however, carried by a majority. Mr. Hall subsequently proposed an amendment for the purpose of placing the clauses relating to-the appropriation of the Land Revenue in separate regulations, so that if they were considered inadmissible in Auckland, at all events the other part of the regulations might be sanctioned. This amendment was negatived. The resolutions as proposed by Mr. Brittan stand therefore as part of the regulations. The other clauses of the -regulations which had been reserved were subsequently brought forward ami were severally disposed of and agreed to. The bill as finally amended was ordered to be printed, and will probably be introduced for its third reading early next week. We have not space for these debates which are of great length; the arguments- used by the several speakers contained uo new matter. The feeling appeared to be that the subject had been gene* rally exhausted. We may, however, congratulate our readers that the question is at length brought to a close.