Provincial Council.

Lyttelton Times, Volume IV, Issue 213, 15 November 1854, Page 3

Provincial Council.

Wednesday, Nov. 8. rf.\ie Council met according to adjournment. Present, —the Speaker, Messrs. Hamilton, Packer, Aylmer, Tancred, llhodes, Hall, and Bealey. A copy of all correspondence was moved for, which has not yet heen laid on the table of the house, between Col. Campbell and the Provincial Government, since the appointment of C< 1. Campbell to the office ot Registrar. On the motion of Mr. Tancred a recommendation was made to His Honor the Superintendent to place on the estimates for the construction of the Havewood road such a sum of money as the financial position of the Province, and other claims of a similar character would justify. A select committee was appointed, consisting of Messrs. Bealey, Packer, and Hamilton, to consider the propriety of addressing His Honor the Superintendent to propose an estimate of allowance to the Speaker and members of the Council. Leave was then given to bring in a hill for the repeal of the Auctioneers' Ordinance, and Auctioneers' Amendment Ordinance of New Zealand, and to make other provisions in Hen thereof within the Province of Canterbury. On the motion of Mr. Hall it was determined that the site described as that of the Hospital at Christchuvch is ihe best which can be adopted for the site of the Provincial Council Chamber. Also, that the Harbor-Master ought to be allowed to retain all the pilotage fees for the current year, making the same return respecting them as heretofore. On the motion of Mr. Hall the Scab Bill was read a first time. Thursday, Nov. 9 Present—the Speaker, Messrs. Tancred, Hamilton, Ayhner, Bowen, Rhodes, Cookson, Hall, Cass. Mr. Cookson presented a petition from certain inhabita.nts«of.,Ly,itelton in favour of the formation of a Lyttelton Country District. Mr. Hall presented a petition for the formation of a Kaiapoi District. , A message (No. 5) was read from His Honor the Superintendent. Mr. Hall laid on the table a report from Mr. Dobson in reference to the Bridle path, and a communication from Mr. Torlesse on the subject of roads. . Mr. Bowen presented a petition from the inhabitants of Simmer for the completion of the Sumner road. PROVINCIAL COUNCIL EXTENSION BILL. Mr. Hall then rose to make some remarks on the subdivision of the electoral districts. He was of opinion that the number' of electors on the roll of the Christclmrch Country District would be considerably increased. There were to be 11 members, and there would be probably 22 candidates for the whole district, and he believed it would be impracticable for the electors to give due consideration to the wants of each portion of the district if they were to elect representatives for the whole, iii the bill before the house the two measures were embodied. The electors .of Kaiapoi and such widely-situated places are cut off from fair representation. The extent of their votes would rarely affect a candidate. He was glad to Hud that a petition had been sent from the Kaiapoi and Lyttelton districts, expressive of their desire to send representatives of their own. The remaining portion of the Chnslchurch Country district would have returned S members, which is too many for one election. One district contained 112, the other 124, electors. There is not a larger proportion of unregistered residents in one of these districts than in the other, and he could not see how any better division could be made. It had heen said that the bill would largely increase the plurality of voting,but this had been.grossly exaggerated ; in the rolls there are about 700 votes, and about 150 plural votes, and these are cases mostly of persons who have town and country sections. Hisopinion was that there were uotabove 12 persons who would have votes in both the country districts. Great agitation is attempted to be got up out of doors upon the subject, but he was satisfied that the general feeling was in favour of the measure. With these prefatory remarks he would move that the Speaker do leave the chair. Mr. Bowen then took the chair.

Cap. Simeon suggested that the preamble of the bill should be fust considered. Mr. Hall said he proposed to take the clauses first, and the preamble last. Mr. Dami^ikr thought it was most important to begin'properly,,arid not put the cart before the horse. He thought it might prove that the title of the bill was at variance with the preamble itself. Mr. Hall would offer no impediment. The preamble was then read and agreed to. Clause 1 having been read, Mr. Packer said before putting the numbers into this clause, he would propose that two members be given to Kaiapoi. Mr. Hall objected to the alteration. Mr. Aylmer said if the principle was admitted, he should propose that 3 members be given to Akarna. Mr. Rhodes thought that nearly all were on the register at Akaroa that could claim to be there, but he thought there was a large district round Rangiora which, required representation. Mr. Dampieb said the fiibt clause involved a principle which opened the door to a great many claims, and these were a great many evils. This was a bill, not merely for the enlargement of the Council, but for the division of the province into districts. He considered that Kaiapoi had sprung into importance during the last two years, and its growing importance entitled it to two members. Mr. Hall thought it might be possible that the bill would not meet the wants of the people two years hence, as based upon the prophetic visions of hon. gentlemen, but he thought it useless to attempt to meet cases which had no real existence. Mr. Hamilton: The first question was. to determine the number of members the Council should consist of: from that point we had to start, and then to apportion out this number according to the importance and claims of the electoral districts. Mr. Tancred always understood the number to have been fixed at 24: the only safe-guide was the electoral roll. Mr. Hamilton thought that clause 1 could not affirm so broadly that from and after the passing of the bill, the house should consist of 24 members, because some time was necessary for return of writs after the Governor.had allowed the bill. There ought to be a qualifying clause. Mr. Hall believed it was not necessary. This House consists now of 12 members, but there might be one or.more vacancies, and the additions might be treated as though they were vacancies. Mr. Dampier was about to suggest that the House should in future consist of 24 members. Mr. Hall thought the words in future indefinite. Question put and the clause agreed to. Mr. Hall moved the adoption of clause 2. Mr. Hamilton asked for information in respect to the clause. Mr. Hall said it was an embodiment of clauses 2 and 3 of the old bill. Mr. Hamilton said the new clause substituted the word Superintendent for Governor, who by the old bill was to have power to issue writs. Mr. Hall said in this case the addition might be looked upon in the light of filling up vacancies, and not as in the case of a dissolution. Mr. Dampikr was of opinion that the alteration was v very uood one. It would facilitate the returns, and be of great convenience to the House. But he observed that the elections were to be based on the present electoral roll ; while the bill was to provide for the alteration of the electoral districts. Mr. Hall said if the hon. gentleman would read the Bth clause he would see that this objection was met. * There would be no alteration of j electoral districts until a dissolution had taken place. Air. lIAiMiLTON suggested the addition of the wort's "of the several now existing electoral districts," which would possibly clear up the matter. Question put that clause as amended do stand, and airreed to. pv'Mr. Mali, next came to clause 1 of the original bill, in which ho proposed a verbal alteration, and then this clause of the old bill would stand as clause 2. Mr. Dajuheh suggested the addition of the word " repealed" at the nul of the clause. Mr. IIaIiI. could not u^rec to the introduction

of the word. The opinion was that they could not repeal a proclamation. Question put and the clause agreed to. Clause 2 was agreed to be struck out. Clause 3.—Mr. Hall moved the adoption of clause 3. It would be understood that it would not come into operation until after the dissolution of the house. Question put and the clause agreed to. Clause 4.—-Agreed to. Clause 5, having been read, Mr. Dampier proposed that the name of the Superintendent should be put in the place of the Governor. It would simplify the measure very materially. Mr. Hall said he should prefer that the suggestion came in the form of an amendment. He did not wish to interfere in the matter at all. Mr. Tancbed agreed with the views of the hon. gentleman. He thought the Superintendent should be above suspicion, and the power of the appointment of a Returning Officer might be looked upon as an undue authority, although he believed that no Returning-Officer could exercise any influence at an election. Captain Simeon thought the practice would be, prior to an election, for the Governor to say he knew nothing of the qualifications of persons resident upon the spot, and that he would beg the Superintendent's advice on the subject, who would virtually possess the power. He should therefore vote for the amendment. Mr. Hamilton fully agreed in the remarks of the hon. gentleman ; moreover, it was to be recollected that the Returning-Officer was bound by the obligation of an outh,and there was power to prevent all abuse even if the trust was left to the control of the Provincial Government. But independently of this the Governor could do no more than the Superintendent; he must choose a Returning-Officer from the residents of the Province. Mr. Hall said he did not desire that the power should be delegated to the Executive Council; its political position rendered the appointment undesirable to be left in their hands; it should, he thought, be confined to the Superintendent, or the Governor. The. amendment:to substitute the words— " Superintendent for the time being," in place of the words " Governor of New Zealand," having been adopted, the question was put and the clause agreed to. This clause was afterwards divided into two, and numbered 6 and 7. Mr. Dampikr took objection that polling places were not mentioned ; he thought there was a difficulty arising out of it. Mr. Hall drew attention to the 36th clause of the Proclamation, which deputed the power to appoint polling-places to the Superintendent. Mr. Hamilton thought a new element had been introduced into the bill T which now had reference to the appointment of the Superintendent, and he thought that if polling places were appointed in the seven districts enumerated, a man might, if be pleased, by hard riding, record his vote seven times over. Captain Simeon said that this could hardly be, as the Returning-Officer was empowered to ■put the question upon oath, " Have you voted before?" Mr. Tancked said, that at the last election the practice was for voters to record their votes for the Superintendent at any polling-place he pl e ;, S ed_it was practically but one district with many polling"-places. Mr. Cookson thought that if an elector was registered in several districts he could vote for the Superintendent in any one of them ; where there was but one qualification it was necessary that he should vote in the district where lie held his qualification. Question put and agreed to. Clause 6'to stand as Clause 8, was read ami agreed to. 'Clause 9 being read, Mr. Hamilton suggested that the " Superintendent" in this clause should bo substituted /or the "' Governor of New Zealand." Mr. Dami'ler thought that the Ilevisii.fr-Ofiii-.er was a judicial ollieer. and he thought the Supreme Court ought to nominate. Mi. Hall objected ; he though;, lor all practical purposes'tin.l Goven;<!r was the proper otlicer, and it wa« most important that these officers should be above all suspicion. Captain Simkox agreed with the opinion of the learned member for Lvttelton. The appointment of the RewMug-dllioev was peculiarly

within the province of the Judge; for the same reason that had led him to suggest that the Superintendent should appoint the ReturniugOfficer, so he should in this case support auy amendment that might be proposed deputing this power to a Judge of the Supreme Court.The suggestion having been adopted, the clause as amended was put and carried. Clause 10, having reference to notices of objections, was read. Mr. Taxgred objected to the introduction of the clause. He thought it was introducing new machinery which would not work well. Mr. Cookson and Mr. Dampier took the same view. Mr. Hall said that it was a clause intended to provide for an evident omission in the Governor's proclamation, and which had been found to work very badly. Mr. Hamilton thought the whole question was the proper construction of the electoral roll. He believed that several votes on the roll at Lyttelton were iv colloquial phrase "fudged "ones. He believed the amendment was an important one, and there was nothing that prevented the house entertaining the question although it was j suddenly proposed. This precedent had been fully established. Upon a division being called for, the clause was carried. Clause 11, amended as follows, was then agreed to. • "This Ordinance shall come into operation upon and after a day to be notified by the Superintendent in the Government Gazette, being not more than ten days after he shall have received the signification of the assent of the Go- j vernor thereto. Provided that none of the provisions of this Ordinance except those contained in the first, second, tenth and eleventh clauses thereof, shall have any force or effect until after the next dissolution of the Provincial Council." Clauses 12 and 13, with a few verbal alterations, were adopted. On the motion that clause 1 in the schedule be adopted, Mr. DAMPrea ask°d if the Town Reserves were within the limits of the Town of Christchurcb. Mr. Hall said he could not answer that question at present, nor did he think any one else could, but he would suggest that the difficult} might be removed by the introduction of the words "the town reserves" into the clause. j The clause so amended was agreed to. Clause 2, with a verbal alteration, and clauses 3 to 7 were then agreed to. The house then resumed. KOTICES OF MOTION. Mr. Hall to move for Committee of Supply to-morrow, and a resolution on the subject of the Sumner road, also the second reading of the Scab and Catarrh Ordinance. Friday, Nov. 10. I Present,—The Speaker, Messrs. Hal], Bealey, Rhodes, Hamilton, Dampier, Packer, Bowen, an<i Cooksou. The Clerk read the following Message from His Honor the Superintendent. " The Superintendent submits to the Provincial Council the accompanying Supplementary Estimate, in substitution of the sum of jG 1,000 for other Public Works, included in the Supplementary Estimate, submitted'with the Message dated Nov. 2, 1854. J. E. Fitz Gerald. Papanui and Harewood Toad, on condition of the neighbouring population finding labour 100 o q ■North road, bridge over the Salt Creek,:uid making odd bits of road _ over swamps 400 0 0 Road from Can's to the Puvarikanui 200 0 0 Lincoln Road 400 q q Bridle path to Akaroa 300 0 0 do. to head of Port Victoria 200 0 0 Road to the south of Christchurch to be met by another £100 from inhabitants jqo 0 0 Road under the hills 100 0 0 Alterations to the Hospital 126 13 11 „ TT Total ... £1926 13 11 Mr. Hall Inid on the table papers having reference to the appropriation of the Educational grant. Auctioneers' Licenses Amendment Bill. Mr. I-iam.'lton moved the Ist reading of the Auctioneers' Bill.

Mr. Packeb asked why the Hours of sale were limited to certain periods of the day. Mr. Hamilton said lie found these regulations in the old ordinances, and of course reproduced them, but it was open for the House to deal with the subject. He could understand that evils might arise from sales after twilight, but in this respect it -was right they should remember the origin of these clauses was due to Governor Hobson's Attorney General, who had framed his laws upon the model of the penal colony to which New Zealand once was a dependency. The chief object was the remedy of existing evils ; he was not. wedded to all the peculiar clauses of the bill. One thing was very clear, the old ordinance is so worded that no one who desired it could take out a license now even on paying the full fee to act as an auctioner, he must wait until April 1855, and he felt that the power ought to he given »for any one who chose to take out a license to do so on any day in the year he pleased. Mr. Dampier seconded the Ist reading. The Bill was ordered to be printed. Scab and Catarrh Ordinance Amendment Biud. Mr. Hall Tose to move the second reading of the Scab bill; he desired to explain the necessity for its introduction. The Ordinance had worked beneficially, and he believed the state of the flocks within the Province, was generally satisfactory. But it was inferred that the Ordinance was imperfect in reference to newly lauded sheep, and to sheep driven in from other provinces, and the house was bound to afford protection to Sheep-owners. The measure provides that no sheep shall be imported by land until they have been reported clean. Other '< clauses were found necessary, such as the power to examine sheep without the Magistrate's warrant. In proposing to re-enact the bill it would afford him the opoitunity of remedying a few defects in the old measure. -I

Mr. Ehodes had great pleasure in seconding the Bill; he believed the Ordinance had done a | great amount of good. The proposed arrangement in reference to sheep driven over land was very necessary, and they were laughed at by people at Nelson for allowing them to drive their sheep through the Province to Otago, and offers had been made to exchange twice the number of Scabby sheep for half their number I of clean ones. Mr. Cookson hoped some public notice would be given of the proposed change at Nelson. The bill was then read a second time. COMJHJNr.CA.TJ.ON BETWEEN THE PoKT AND THE PLAIN&. The house then went into Committee to consider the proposed line of communication between the Port and the Plains by means of the Sumner road. Mr. Hall felt that great responsibility was attached to the subject, which was full of the deepest importance to the future interest of the Province. For two years the subject had been under discussion,and this had had its benefit,for it had allowed the fullest discussion,and theintroduction of various schemes. The subject resolved itself into two questions, a railroad, or no railroad. A railroad would of course overcome the necessity for the water conveyance. He had once a strong feeling in favour of the railroad ; he felt that its advantages to the future prosperity of the Colony would be very great, but he feared their present position would not justify the outlay, and therefore he was compelled to abandon the idea for the present. He would read one or two extracts from the Commissioner's valuable report. It was to he observed that the cost was to be £150,000, now the mere interest of the money required for this purpose would be £15,000, and the house would he was certain consider themselves well off with this sum as an income. Therewas the objection of the want of labour, and a <rreat one too; also of the length of time it would occupy, it might as likely be 5 years as 3 years. Five years in the history of a ! colony such as this, would be an immense time and serious evils might ensue from the delay It seemed then that a railroad was a luxury beyond their hopes. He would also exclude theconsiderauon of the road to Gollan's Bay. There remains then the establishment of a road or the water communication. Great stress had been laid upon the superior benefit resulting from water communication for the transmission of the heavier produce of the Plains; and in this opinion he concurred, and he hoped that the navigation could be so improved as to enable

them to avail themselvesof steam communication. His Honor had made arrangements for the Survey of the Bar, which he hoped woulfd shortly be made. But whatever might be .thfev advantages of the water communication,^hey could not lose sight of the actual necessuy of the. road, and in support of-this view he would read a brief extract from a pamphlet which he had laid on the table of the house. The road would be a-great convenience to newly arrived emigrants, who could ai once put their goods on to a dray, and go with them, which would be a great satisfaction ; but the question resolved itself into an engineering one, and he would therefore briefly examine the several documents before them. The evidence of nearly all the surveyors has been most strongly in favour of the Sumner Road, and the opinion is principally based upon the extremely easy gradient. The report was the result of the best engineering talent in the colony, and he would read a few extracts from it, in which the reasons which had led to the Commissioners' recommendation were clearly given. Those gentlemen had been appointed to investigate the claims of the several lines, and the result was the recommendation of the New Sumner Eoad. There did not appear to be any objection to the tunnel, its difficulties were not of a character to offer serious obstacles. He thought that if the house agreed in the opinion that this line of communication was under all circumstances the best, it would be evident that the temporary lines which had been suggested would of course be got rid of at once, as it would be their interest to begin the construction of the road as soon as the bill had. passed. It was intended to appoint a working engineer at a fixed salary, and also to have the benefit of the advice of a consulting engineer. They were not without hope of obtaining assistance from the native population of the north. As regards the revenue, it was intended to vote °gl 0,000 for this purpose now, as much as could be expended dnringthe present financial year. He hoped the subject would be taken into immediate consideration, as he believed the growing importance of the agricultural districts of the Plains has rendered it a matter of vitalimportance that there should be an outlet for their produce. Mr. Bealey seconded the introduction of the bill.

Mr. Packer said he could hardly go the length which the hon. gentleman had done. No one was more sensible of the importance of road communication, but it was a question whether the road here was the most desirable. He believed that put what road you would between the Port and the Plains, it would never answer the requirements of the Province. He believed the chief thing they required was water communication. The hon. gentleman says there is to be a vote of £10,000, then they are to have another vote, or will have to borrow the remaining sum. It is said that the road can be completed in 12 months, but he feared it would be 3 years, for he had reason to believe that they could not depend 'upon the importation of Northern labour. He thought there was ground for {suspicion when be saw so large a sura put down for contingencies, as was found in the Commissioner's report. The cost of the railroad was ag105,000 and £50,000 was put down for contingencies, and he thought that the contingencies to be added for the plan under consideration would raise the sum to £30,000. It was questionable if when the road was constructed they should find drays to travel over them. They could not now find drays for any purpose, no matter how urgent the need. He felt, therefore, the chief thing was the improvement of the bar. He believed that while the bar was being altered, there would at the same time be vessels constructing, and the one would be ready as soon as the other was completed. He thought, therefore, that the Government ought to devote their attention to the examination of the bar, before they venture! upon the expense attendant on the road. Some say the cost will be £60,000, and some say 3, or £4,000 ; some say, a few pounds. Now when these differences of opinion exist, he thought that the survey should be made first, and possibly this report might do away with the necessity for a road. He held in his hand an address from the residents in Chrislchurch which was so tempevate in its tone, and so strongly expressive of their opinion, that he hoped it would receive attention.

Mr. Cass agreed in what had been said about the bur, and he hoped that the subject would vest until the survey hud been made. He did

not desire to obstruct the construction of the road. His opinion was as strong as ever that Vhe Sumner road was the only line thatcould be beneficial to the Province. A great deal ha(( been said in favour of the employment of Maori labour. He felt it would occur again, as it has already done, that there would be no certainty in retaining them as* labourers. Their peculiar habits were such that it was impossible to keep them on the spot. .The roads in the north which had been constructed by Maori labour were very good, but their cost had been enormous, although constructed in the immediate vicinity of their homes. The natives know very well they can work as well as English lalaborers, and if you propose to give them only 65., and another labourer is to receive 9s. he will tell you he will do work equivalent in quantity to the proportion that 6s. bears to 9s. He had hoped to hear that some plan had been considered of importing English labourers with a certain engagement for two years. These men would be most valuable for private purposes when the public work had been completed. There had been delay in this matter, but as the subject of the survey could be soon determined, it was better to wait a few months longer, and proceed in a matter of so much importance with caution. There are serious difficulties in the Sumner road, and he was certain that European labour was required for some of the work on that line. He was also of opinion that the Council should first be enlarged. They would have the benefit of new minds.

Capt. Simeon agreed entirely in the opinion of the two hon. gentlemen whohad justspoken. It was of importance that the capital within the Province should be retained within it. The effect of the employment of Maori labour would be to take out nearly three-fourths of the sum proposed to be voted for the purpose, and this was an evil. He should vote against the measure. Mr. Dampier was of the same opinion, and he thought there was no impropriety in calling upon them to delay for a few months the consideration of this particular road. He thought every one admitted that a road passable for <:arts and. horses should be made into the port, and of all the roads surveyed probably this is the best. But the question is, which is the road under the present circumstances that ought to be made. He thought this was not the one. The arguments of the hon. gentleman admitted that there was a better road which had yet to be made, which would leave this road traffickless, and which had been made at a cost of £25,000, and that road was the railroad. If, therefore, the purposes of this settlement could be served at a cost of £5, or £6000, that was the road which ought, under the circumstances, to be constructed, particularly as there were the advantages arising from water communication. There had been a strong feeling expressed 3at a public meeting at Lyttelton adverse to the Sumner road. The unanimous voice of that meeting was that it was desirable to expend a sum of money not exceeding a given sum for the construction of a temporary line of road, which should serve the present purposes. Just before that meeting be had passed through apart of the country, and could testify that a good road could be attained with a regular gradient of 1 in 9 or 1 in 10, and of about 2 miles in length. He brought this under the notice of the Government, but it seems they have not thought it worth official notice. This road would act as a permanent road, and might open up a large tract of country for beneficial occupation. He believed that the expenditure of £10,000 would be thrown away upon the Sumner Road. He thought it was not right to come to this Council on the eve of its enlargement, and expend all the public money in their hands. If they put their hand to the plough, they must see their way closely to the end of the furrow, and in this case they could not do so. It was intended to have wharves and jetties at Gollan's Bay on private property, and then all goods would have to be transferred to these wharves, and placed on board vessels in Gollan's Bay ready to receive them, and "Lytfcellon would be destroyed. Such would be the result, and he should be prepared ut the'proper time to defend the interests of Lyttelton by moving an amendment to the proposition of the hon. gentleman. ■Mr. Bealey : Perhaps the hon. gentleman would toll the house where hi«j line of road is. Mr. Dampier hud marked out the lines on the plan. He observed ;\ smile upon the face of the hon. gentleman, which ho read to mean that

the road in question would pass along or in vicinity to his property: it certainly would do so ; but he would prefer its being elsewhere, that had no influence with'him. He was an undoubted advocate of the railroad, and that would destroy the immediate value of his property. He thought of what was for their common interest. Now it was unwise to devote time and consideration to the construction of this road while the water communication remained unsettled. They were bound to do all that could be done to the Bar, for the sake of life and property alone : besides this, there was the greatest probability that it would afford them the means they needed of fulland complete communication. The opinion at the meeting he had alluded to was almost universal in its disapprobation of the Sumner road. A. petition had been sent in to the house praying for the construction of a line of road to Sumner. We may easily admit that road would be of the easiest gradient, but he much questioned its usefulness at a cost of £30,000, and he feared the petitioners lost sight of this fact. He thought it was desirable the shortest route should be determined upon if it would be sufficient for the wants of the settlement, taking the heavy produce over the bar; he would not waste a large sum inmakingand in maintaining this costly and he might say unnecessary road. He would conclude by an amendment, not with the view of impeding the actions of thehon. gentlemen, but merely to record the opinion of the house. The amendment not being seconded fell to the ground. Mr. Hamilton said this memorial from Lyttelton which Mr. Dampier held.in so slight estimation, contained not only the signatures of the two malcontents at the Lyttelton public meeting, but almost the whole of the inhabitants of Lyttelton, and certainly of all the men of weight and political activity in that town. They seemed not to participate in the fears of the hon. gentleman of the destruction of the town of Lyttelton. It was time that the Council should take the subject into its consideration. The Government has made the question a perfectly open one, and as such he should deal with it. He quite concurred in the view that the report of the road Commissioners was the report upon which the house should act; and because he believed them to be men of the highest practical experience the Province could then produce, he would trust to their judgment before his own or any other persou's. The idea of a railway was a mere phantasmagoria. The Government had told us of no funds beyond the £10,000, he could see no more even in prospect, and he could see no way to a railroad. The whole question of the road resolved itself into one of means, and there were but to be calculated upon with any degree of certainty, now that the land fund was to go to other Provinces. He entertained no doubt of the line by Evans's Pass being the best and only practicable one. Every other saddle from Godley Head to Governor's Bay had a rise of I,oooft. Ou Evaus's Pass line a rise of 600 ft. is gained in 2£ miles ; to rise 400 ft. more, you lengthen your line of road by another mile and two-thirds : —that was to be doubled for both sides of the hill. There would then be 3i miles requiring proportionately heavy additional outlay. Therefore he was sure there was no crossing preferable to Evan's Pass. No capital has come here lately for any other purpose than investment in laud and cattle, and no larg-e amount of traffic could be created suddenly among so small a population as ours of 4000. The construction of the railroad was at present as undesirable as it was impracticable. The cheapness of the Sunnier Eoad, and its being the line that could be completed in the shortest time, were advantages which, in themselves alone, fully justified the recommendation of the Commissioners. However greatly the water communication could be improved, there was still the important consideration which has weighed with every one proceeding to the colony —the fact known now all over the world, that there was no road from the Port to the country. It was important that the people of other colonies should kumv that these difficulties are removed, and there would spring up the advantage of imported capital and labour. It had been said that no would 'send his teams along this road, but he believed that as soon as it was constructed there would be a regular Pickford system of carrying established, and private teams would be relieved from the labour, and the wants of the people fully supplied. It we afford the moans of carrying out the traffic,

we shall soon see the benefits accruing in the promotion of the several internal interests of the Province. He placed no confidence in the mere rumours of statements said to hare emanated from men who were supposed to know something about other places, because he knew, from experience, how often even practical men were wrong in statements when not made under responsibility, and without a real examination of facts. It had been said that the Porirua-road at Wellington had a gradient of one in three, and that teams were easily and constantly passing along it, but the fact was not so as to the gradient; not one part of the Porirua-road was half as steep as the Bridle-path. He thought it was very important that the Sumner Bar should be surveyed as speedily as possible; he was certain that no practical man would enter upon the speculation of putting down steamers on that road until a proper survey had been made, and that by a competent and known professional man. It is absolutely necessary you should know what that Bar is before you dream of making it what you wish it to be. In attempting inconsiderately its removal, you may place it in another and far more dangerous position. The approach to the S. Bay is a very gradual one, and it might happen that this bay would be rendered useless, being converted into a sandflat, with the bar spread all over. No opinion would satisfy him short of that of a responsible marine surveyor, who knows something of bars and sand-banks, something of tides and currents; as yet we had only landsmen's opinions and surmises. The stopping up of the gaps as they are called may cost £1,000, or may cost £6,000, but they knew nothing of the amount. Till it was clearly established that a small sum would improve the navigation, it would be better to defer the final question of the communication. There was, moreover, no certainty what the future revenue would prove to be: the Province had no land-revenue at all secured to it; and the ordinary revenue at present was only sufficient for its ordinary requirements. He agi'eed in the opinion that an enlarged Council should deal with the question; by that time, too, the finances of the Province might be settled upon a firmer and surer basis. After spending £10,000 we had no guarantee where the remaining £15,000 were to come from, and to raise it by increased taxation was utterly out of the question. Mr. Cookson said he should support the Government bill. The road was essential, and it was the only practical one that could or had been suggested. He had supported Hughes'i line, but he had yet the strongest opinion that a better road was also essential.

Mr. Bealey: The objection of one lion, gentleman was that the toad would not be useful as a dray road, but he might say that a large sheepowner had told him that he would dray down his wool through the Province, and take it over this line to Lyttelton. As regarded the difficulty of hiring drays, it must not be forgotten that most of the wool brought down from the stations was by means of hired drays. Mr. Bealey then took'a brief review of the arguments of the several speakers. The meeting at Lyttelton had been dwelt upon, but it was daugerous to allow ourselves to be influenced by amateur statements. There is the road too which would disturb the lion, gentleman's retirement, of which he appeared so careful, but ihere was no doubt that this obstruction of his retirement would be obtained by a considerable increase in the value of his property, and few hon. gentlemen would not sacrifice the advantage in one respect for the gain on the other, and retire at another time. Mr. Rhodes was not disposed to give a silent vote.- They were all agreed in the opinion that the Simmer road was the best, and they were equally agreed in the necessity for the surrey of the bar before the road was constructed. The bulk of the owners would take their wool in and be absent only one day. He should say let the Sumner bat be first surveyed, and if that was impracticable, theu let the*best road be made at once. After a few words from Mr. Dampier, Mr. Hall said he would offer a few arguments in reference to the observations which had fallen from the hon. gentleman. It seemed to be an opinion that they did not attach a sufficient degree of importance to the survey of the Stunner "Bar. He had already stated that Cap. Drury had been requested to make an immediate survey, but he thought that the road was as essential as the water communication. Improve

the bar as you may, they would always be dependent on wind and weather. There was some misunderstanding in reference to Maori labour ; from enquiries which His Honor had made at Wellington and elsewhere, there was no doubt that a sufficient amount of help could be obtained, and although he was not much attached to Maori labour, it would be essential in order to avoid interference with the labour of the colony as it was at present circumstanced. The discussion was satisfactory. Although they did not determine to begin at once, yet the prevailing idea was that the Sumnerroad was the only one that could be of any practical good. He begged to withdraw the resolution before the house for the present, although he did not see why it should be delayed, as he was not of opinion that the survey of the bar would alter the necessity for the road. With the permission of the House he would withdraw the proposition. The House'then went into Committee of Supply. The proposition to grant £50 to the clerk of Commitiee, was unanimously agreed to. On the motion of Mr. Hall, the proposition to grant £1000 for Steam Navigation, was agreed to. Mr. Hall then proposed to grant £70 for a lock-up at Kaiapoi; and a sum of £2,000 for the construction of a Council Chamber. Question put and agreed to. The house then resumed. Mr. Hamilton laid ou the table a report of the Select Committee for enquiring into the subject _of an allowance to the Speaker and Members. NOTICES OF MOTIOX. Mr. Hall to more the third reading of the Provincial Council Extension Bill. Mr. Hamilton said he had given notice of two subjects, but he saw no notice of them on the books. Mr. Hall said he had omitted to take notice of them ; one was in reference to the office of Registrar, concerning whom His Honor had written to His Excellency, praying that he might be removed from his office. The House then adjourned.

Bikth.—On Tuesday, the 7th hist., at Kaiapoi, the wife of Mr. Henry Jones, of a son.