Provincial Council.

Lyttelton Times, Volume III, Issue 149, 12 November 1853, Page 6

Provincial Council.

TUESDAY, Sxh November. The Speaker took the Chair at } past 4. CATTLE BRANDING BILL. Mr. Hall, in moving the second reading of this Bill, said, he thought there could be no difference of opinion respecting the necessity of every one being obliged to brand their stock; in the case of sheep being diseased with the scab, steps ought to be taken to prevent it from extending, and if a diseased sheep strayed among a flock free from it, a separate mark would be the means of identifying it : he thought that the most convenient time for bringing the Bill into operation would be at the commencement of February, as the operation of shearing would be finished at that period. As to cattle, great confusion and. difficulty arise at present from neighbours' stock mixing: there was «o disease here at present among cattle but it had been known to have appeared and spread in England to 9- very great extent; therefore to provide in some degree for the possibility of its arising here, he thought that it would be desirable to establish an office for registering brands. Mr.'Hamilton concurred in general with the introducer of the Bill, but there were a few alterations which lie considered were necessary to be made in the Bill, but would reserve them till it was brought into Committee. Mr. Bowen had a decided objection to branding cattle, but would postpone further observations till the Bill was discussed in Committee. The Bill was then read a second time. GOVERNMENT GAZETTE BILL. Mr. Hamilton said there were a few modifications necessary to be made in this Bill, therefore, to save time, he would move for its recommittal to-morrow. PUBLIC SEAL. Mr. Hamilton moved for leave to bring in a Bill for the establishment of a Public Seal; it was originally combined wilh the Executive Government Bill, which was in that shape too cumbrous. The Government had certain acts to perform as a corporate body, and it was in order that those acts should be executed upon le<;al authority that this was introduced. Leave granted. PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE. Mr. Hamilton applied for leave to bring in a Bill to establish a Public. Record Office. It was intended by this Bill that all* documents should be properly recorded and placed in the custody of a duly appointed officer, otherwise great trouble and confusion would arise. He remembered a case in which the Supreme Court was not able to procure evidence in consequence of a number of the Government Gazette not having been recorded ; lmd such an office been in existence, such a difficulty would not have occurred, and he thought it of the greatest importance that such an office should be established, so that reference might be had at any time when it was necessary. Leave granted. SCAB ORDINANCE, The House went into.Committee to consider the provisions of this act, Mr. Bowen in the Chair. Mr. Hall had moved for the recommitment of this Bill for the purpose of making such verbal alterations as would meet the wishes of Government that all laws should be enacted on a uniform system, and in as simple lano-uao-e as possible. ° ° After n long and animated discussion between Messrs. Dumpier, Hall, Hamilton, and Captain Simeon,-respecting legal discrepancies, it was resolved that the Bill should be read in its present form pro forma, and recommitted on Thursday week. The House then adjourned at a late hour. WEDNESDAY, November 9th. Speaker took the Chair at 11. Financial arrangements. Mr. Hamilton, in inuving the resolutions in answer to his Honor's Address, stated that when the appropriation of Revenue was proposed a difficulty.had occurred. By the old acts of New Zealand, the power of appropriating the Revenue had censed in September last, but he conceived that by the Constitution Act ilnse acts were valid up to the time of the Meeting• of the General Assembly. As to the question of supplies they could not ascertain the manner' in which the Assembly would deal with tbe Revenue; the difficulty arose as to the amount

of Revenue they might leave to onrjcUsposal; it would be improper to pass a special law for the appropriation of funds guaranteeing salaries and other expenses without a ceitainty of sufficient revenues. .■

Mr. Hall rose to order; he thought the resolutions ought to be discussed separately in Committee.

Mr. Dampier would prefer considering the resolutions in the whole and afterwards separately in Committee.

Mr. Hamilton bad no objection to this course. The adoption of these resolutions would show that the Council did not wish to arrogate to itself undue authority. He knew no instance in New Zealand where the estimates had not been sufficient to cover the expenses incurred by the different Settlements; they had always been covered by the increase in the receipts of the Revenue; but in our case it was impossible to form any opinion as to what might be calculated upon as the increase, of Revenue in thisjProvince, as they were quite ignorant of the amount to be expected from the Land Office, the Register Office, and Crown Lands. He should wish to guarantee the expenses of the estimates by a certainty of Revenue. Mr. Packer wished to inquire whether we were not bound to accept the Constitution in its strict integrity. It was framed and sent out as a great boon to the Colonists, and it was received as such. A Public Meeting had been called to thank the authors of it, but now we try to carry out its provisions, we are met by difficulties at every step. If the Act be read with a common sense view we find every power to establish a system of Government extremely satisfactory if not all we could desire, but if we take it to pieces and try to make any clauses perform the purposes of the whole, then we are reduced to all sorts of expedients. It was never intended that one person putting his own construction on the Act, should reduce us to such an extremity, and if possible he would like to know if any Member could assign a reason for such a mode of procedure. If it arose from feelings on transactions previous to the granting of the Constitution, he felt sure that ou^the part of the Colonists they felt no desire to enter into the past with feelings of acrimony, but would be willing to take the honest working of the Act in full discharge of past transactions; and he thought that it would be advisable to address the Governor in the most temperate and conciliatory spirit; but if this did not succeed he would rather incur the difficulties that were anticipated would arise than to improperly interfere with the honest working of the act. Why wa« the General Assembly not convened ? The Act in clause 44 says that it should be called together as soon as convenient after the return of the writs. This word convenience seems to be a very convenient one, but if you compare the word as used in clauses 64 and 58 it can never be strained to be a license for delaying the calling into existence of the General Assembly ; and if delayed through the power of that convenient word it may as probably be 7 years as 7 weeks before we may hope to find the Constitution in full action. He therefore should wish that the 3rd Resolution be expunged. Mr. Dampier could not quite agree with the last speaker. He was disposed to move another amendment, when the resolutions were considered in Committee. In looking1 at His Honor's address when he called upon the House to move these resolutions, he saw many valuable and well-founded observations, but he was, in his opinion, mistaken in some points. As to the question respecting the funds, they belonged to the people, and if the Ist resolution were passed, it would tend to give an undue influence to the General Assembly :if there is a probability of coming to a stand-still for want of funds to meet the salaries, &c, the main point for consideration is to gain the administration of the Local Revenue. Now it is stated in the 66th clause of the Constitution Act that the Provincial Councils have the power of appropriating the funds in the Province. Certainly in this clause a difficulty arose from the peculiar wording, but as the Governor has delegated to the Province the power to dispose of its Revenue, it was advisable to deal with them accordingly, until a more legitimate way was open to us. Tt was never intended that the Government of the Province should stand still, or the Superintendent would not have called the Council to-

gether. It was the business of the Crown to propose, and of the people to sanction, measures, and it was not necessary to call the General Assembly together to pass the Civil List, as thai was already done, and the Governor says that in the present state of affairs, until it is convenient to call the General Assembly together, he is willing to give the disposal of die Revenue into the hands of the Provincial Governments. He thought that it would be most injurious to the settlement to be at variance with the Governor, and therefore 'quite agreed with Mr. Packer as to the friendly feeling advocated by him. He could not see the 'difficulty"which appeared to the mover of the resolutions, that made it necessary for the Council to pledge itself to the Ist. As to the 2nd, he thought that the Governor was carrying out the Constitution Act in the most convenient manner, for it gave the Provincial Councils time to ascertain wliai measures they would require to be carried out by the General Assembly on their behalf; and also if that Assembly had met simultaneously with the Provincial Council, we'should have been deprived of the valuable assistance of our Superintendent by his attendance to his duties in that House.

Mr. Tanciied said that no one wished, to see less feeling- of antagonism towards the Governor than himself, but he would not give up his opinion of right. The Governor had no power of himself alone to legislate with regard to monies. He had acknowledged that by his acts ; the lawful appropriation of Revenue has lapsed, and he thought that the powers of the Provincial Councils should be well-defined by the General Assembly, for if they accepted unlawful benefits from the Governor, they would be liable at any time to have them "withdrawn. He quite agreed with Mr. Packer's desire of evincing friendly feelings towards the Governor, which did him honour. No doubt the Governor had reasons for not bringing the Act into full force; they, however, could not be guided by them, but only by the Constitution Act. Mr. Hah still thought they were out of order in discussing the Resolutions before the whole House. « The Clerk then read the notice, which was for the question to be considered before the whole house. . . Mr. Hamilton, in reply, thought that the fact of their arriving at conclusions different from, those of the Governor, ought not to be construed into acts of hostility. In his opinion they had not the power legally to appropriate the Revenue till the General Assembly had met; and if, in consequence, the Provincial Council came to a stand-still, they could not he responsible for it^ but he would recommend the expenditure to be made in the faith that the General Assembly would confirm it. It was the only course left open to us. The House divided,and, the votes being equal, the Speaker gave the Casting vote in favour of the Resolutions. ' The following Bills were passed through Committee:— The Provincial Revenue Bill. Limitation of Patronage Bill. Executive Government Bill. The House resumed. Mr. Tancred laid on the table papers relating to correspondence between the Superintendent and the-Commissioner of Crown Lands,, who refuses to give any information respecting the duties of his office. NOTICES OF MOTION. Mr. Packer gave notice that he would on Friday move a resolution, in reference to the proceedings of the Commissioner of Crown Lands. Mr. Tancred gave notice for Thursday— Alteration of Cattle Trespass Ordinance. Mr. Hamilton gave notice for Thursday— Ist reading of Public Record Oflice, do. Public Seal, do. Empowering Bill, do. Approval of Estimates; and also for Friday—3rd reading of Provincial Government Bill, do. Provincial Re-* venue Bill, do. Limitation of Patronage Bill. The House adjourned at half-past 3.