Provincial Council.

Lyttelton Times, Volume III, Issue 146, 22 October 1853, Page 8

Provincial Council.

WEDNESDAY, Oct. 12. The Speaker took the chair at 11 a.m. Several notices of motion were given. scab amendment bill. Mr. Hall presented a petition from a Committee appointed at a public meeting to consider the best means of averting disease in sheep. The prayer of the petition was for the adoption of certain alterations and additions in the measure just about to be considered in Committee. The clerk read the petition. The Council then went into committee, Mr. Cookson in the chair. Mr. Hall explained that he had first proposed to ask the Council to enact only a temporary measure. But a committee of stockowners and others had suggested that certain alterations and additions should be made, which might give it the requirements of a permanent measure. He had also received a suggestion, that instead of only repealing so much of the old Scab Ordinance as might be repugnant to the provisions of the present bill, it would be better to repeal that ordinance altogether, and reenact, in the present bill, such of its clauses as it was desirable to keep in force. He had adopted both those suggestions, and would propose amendments in detail accordingly on the bill as read a second time. Clause 1, repealing the old ordinance, was adopted. Clause 2, enacts a fine of not less than £25 or more than £100, on any one himself, or by his agent or servant, driving, depasturing, or suffering to stray, scabby sheep on land not owned or occupied by him, or along a public road. Mr. Dampxer suggested two amendments ; one in the technical wording, so as to include the occupation of pasturage under present regulations; and the other to allow scabby sheep to be carried "in covered vehicles;" which might be necessary to remove them to the hospital run. Mr. Rhodes though^ the last amendment needless: as it would, practically, always be easier to carry the machinery for dressing to the sheep, than the sheep to it. Mr. Hall agreed to adopt these suggestions, reserving the right to object to the last one, if he should find it advisable. Clause 2, thus amended, was agreed to. On clause 3 being moved by Mr. Hall, which enacts the punishment of not more than 3 month's imprisonment for ivilfully and knowingly committing the offence for which clause 2 provides a penalty, Mr. Rhodes rose to second the motion, -End to move that the clause be expunged (laughter). Cap. Simeon rose to second the motion. The honorable member conld not support both the enactment and rejection of the clause. Mr. Dampiek supported the motion on a general view, as a means of punishing servants, and also masters if found to be wilfully guilty of injuring their neighbours. But he would reserve his final judgment till the re-committal. Mr. Hall explained that the object of the clause was to meet the extremely aggravated case, which might perhaps occur, of any man not caring for the penalty, and committing the offence from malicious motives towards others. Tbe clause was very guarded. The oath of two or more credible witnesses, that the offence was knowingly and wilfully committed, would be required. This clause had been approved, after careful consideration, by the Committee of stockowners. _ Mr. Rhodes thought the penalty was sufficient. If any real damage were sustained, an action could be brought in the Supreme Court That was enough to prevent any one from committing the offence purposely. The only recommendation he saw in the "clause was, that it provided a punishment for servants, who would not be affected by the penalty. He moved that the clause be expunged. Mr. Cass seconded the amendment. Amendment put and lost. Clause adopted. Clauses 4 and 5 weve adopted. The latter provides a fine for depasturing scabby sheep within half a mile of the boundary of a run unless it be a natural barrier or 'sheep-proof fence.

Clause 6, as adopted, provides a fine for scabby sheep not branded on the side with the letter S, at least 6 inches long.

Clause 7 provides a fine for all scabby sheep on a run after the Ist of June, 1854, at the rate not less than Is., or more than 55., per head ; the fine to be recoverable again, if the sheep be still scabby, three months after the first conviction.

Mr. Dampier thought the clause too stringent The disease might break out in the flock of the most careful farmer, and he might thus suffer for an effort of nature. This would be very detrimental to sheep-farming. Mr. Hall said the stockowners had decidedly approved of the clause. He thought a careful farmer would find out the existence of the disease before any one else, and immediately adopt measures to save himself from the operation of the clause. It had been approved of by a gentleman whose sheep were the worst diseased of any in the country. Mr. Rhodes approved of the clause. Mr. Dampier suggested the enactment should be only temporary. Mr. Hamilton thought this clause should be carefully considered on re-committal. If the measure became . more than one of internal police among sheep-owners, and tended virtually to prohibit importation by its severity, great attention to its provisions became necessary. The mere opinions of the stockowners alone were not to be considered as a rule for everything. Clauses 8, 9, and 10 were adopted ; providing for examination of suspected sheep by competent persons on a Justice's warrant; penalties for obstruction of such examination : and a power to Justices, on satisfactory evidence of danger to neighbouring stockowners, to order the yarding by night and herding by day, of infected sheep. Clauses 11, 12, 13, and 14 are re-enactments of clauses in the old Ordinance, imposing fines for leaving unburied, throwing into water, slaughtering or selling, the carcases of sheep infected with influenza or catarrh ; and authorising the summary recovery of damages up to £50. By clause 15, the remedy at law is not limited by the bill. These were adopted without discussion. Clause 16 increases the fine on importing diseased sheep, to £100 for catarrh, £5 additional for every head over 20; and £100 for scab, with 10s. additional for every head over 200. Mr. Hamilton remarked that there was no provision for a quarantine ground. This clause would virtually prohibit importation. Mr. Hall said clauses were in preparation, relating to a quarantine ground. The clause would prohibit the importation of diseased sheep, but not sound ones. Mr. Rhodes supported the clause. Importers knew scabby sheep before embarking them, and ought to be made to take them back. It was useless to impose heavy fines on ourselves to eradicate the disease, and then allow stangers to spread it anew by importation. Mr. Hamilton opposed the adoption of this clause, until those about quarantine should be before the Council. Many sheep had been landed scabby, properly dressed in quarantine, andpassed on through the country without infecting others. He would oppose the establishment of a monopoly to the advantage of the stockowners alone.

11 was agreed that the clause should stand over for further consideration.

Clauses 17, 18, and 19 provide for compulsory branding of all sheep after February Ist, 1854, public registry of brands, and punishments for copying them. Adopted. Clause 20 makes the whole flock liable to the penalties, if one sheep in it be infected with scab, or if one sheep in it have been infected with catarrh within three months before.

Clause 21 appoints the regulation of proceedings under the Bill by the Summary Proceedings Ordinance.

A discussion ensued on a clause of the original'bill, proposed to be expunged by Mr. Hall, which had required the evidence of two witnesses for all convictions under the bill.

Mr. Hall explained that it had been found there would be great difficulty in procuring two witnesses to most of the matters to be substantiated.

Mr. Hamilton"suggested that, unless specially otherwise provided, the evidence of two witnesses was in all cases necessary for a conviction before Justices. According to the English law, he apprehended no Justice could, unless in cases specially provided for, convict on the evidence of one witness alone.

Mr. Dampier said such law was a little new to him. The question of evidence was open to

Magistrates, except when special provision was made for two witnesses. There would be great difficulty in proving many offences, if two witnesses were always required. After some further conversation, the clause was expunged. message from the superintendent. The House resumed to receive a message from His Honor. The Speaker read it It was His Honor's approval, on behalf of the Governor, of the Advance of Money Bill. The message was ordered to stand on the records. The Council again went into Committee. Mr. Hall moved that clause 16 stand part of the Bill. Mr. Rhodes seconded the motion. Mr. Haaiilton urged the necessity of post-, poning this clause. It included two distinct' subjects. First, as to catarrh: the proposed penalty was £5 for every sheep above 20 ; thus on landing 1000 sheep the penalty would be £5000 (hear, hear.) This amounts to an uttter prohibition of catarrhed sheep (hear, hear.) He doubted the competence of the Council to enact such a law ; it might be interfering with the regulation of Customs' duties, one of the ex~ cepted subjects. This might be interpreted as an evasive way of obtaining a power which the Constitution Act did not place in their hands. Then as to scab ; the penalty was 10s. per head if over 200. The fine for landing 1000 scabby sheep would be £500. This would be virtually prohibiting importation ; and the effect would be to place a monopoly in the hands of sheepowners. He moved to postpone the consideration of the clause. Mr. Rhodes said catarrhed sheep ought not to be allowed to land under any circumstances, (hear, hear). At Port Philip the stockowners had combined to put this disease down by buying up the sheep and destroying them. We might as well land at Lyttelton a ship-load of people infected with the Asiatic cholera. The community were as much interested as the stockowners in arresting its spread, because the wealth of the province now depends upon their prosperity. Mr. Dampier supported Mr. Hamilton's amendment, and trusted that on re-committal, some more reasonable proposal would be made. Mr. Hall said that the clause would not prohibit the importation of sound sheep, and therefore would not create a monopoly on the part of sheepowners. Mr. Sidey, who had imported the greatest number of sheep into the province, had not, he believed, imported a single diseased sheep: so that the heavy penalties would not deter him from continuing his importation as before (hear). When members had heard the proposed quarantine regulations, they could, if not satisfied., move the omission of this clause on re-committal. As to the catarrh, the Council was bound to put an absolute prohibition on its importation (hear). The value of sheep would be reduced to nothing, if it was introduced (hear, hear). Scab was bad enough, but catarrh would be fatal. He knew of a case where 4000 sheep had died of it in one night He was perfectly willing to consider the interest of persons likely to import stock, but not to encourage catarrh. '■* Mr. Hamilton would press his amendment. This was the first time the Council had heard that catarrh was utterly incurable. If so, it was quite as necessary to provide for its extermination, if it should appear in the country, as to legislate against its importation. As to scab, the stockowners had enjoyed ample opportunities of pressing their opinions, and the interests of the public should be also regarded. He should like to be able to consult gentlemen outside, who were competent to give an opinion, as to the probable effect of this clause in deterring importation. He should like to see the quarantine clauses before passing this; for on the next occasion there might be a small attendance, and a few members might pass the clause, even without satisfactory quarantine provision.

The amendment was put, and carried by 5 to 1.

Mr. Hall explained that the further additions to be made to the bill were : the form of warrant for examination; the provision for the appointment of an Inspector ; and the quarantine regulations. Mr. Dampier moved the insertion of additional clauses on the re-committal of the bill, to the effect of enforcing the public record .in the Government Gazette of all runs by name, and the publication, also in the Gazette, of 'all infected runs by name ; so as to enable drivjers of clean sheep to avoid infected country. '

The motion was agreed to. The Council resumed, and the Chairman reported progress. THURSDAY, October 13th. * waste lands. Mi-.Tancred rose to move that" the Council do now resolve itself into a Committee of the whole Council, to take into consideration the resolutions on the Waste Lands." He said, before going into the question immediately before us, I wish to remove an impression which seemed to he entertained by some hon. members when we last had this subject under our consideration, that we were proceeding too hastily, and without due deliberation, in dealing with a matter of such great importance as the management of the waste lands. This impression, as I understood, was founded on the fact that the draft of the resolutions which I have to propose as originally drawn up, had been altered in the interval between their being laid on the table and the day fixed for their discussion, Tuesday last. It is very true that some alterations had been made in them, but these were mere verbal alterations which affected neither their spirit nor substance. These resolutions are still the same as those originally brought forward as far as the principle they involve is concerned, the documents on which they are founded have been for a considerable time in the hands of honourable members, and the whole question has been before ourselves and the public for several months; so that I cannot admit that this discussion is premature or that the Council is taken unprepared in being called upon to enter into it. The reason why the alterations were made, was that, as originally drawn up, the resolutions did not seem to be confined exclusively to the main principle which they were intended to establish: namely, that the management of the waste lands ought to be vested in a local and not in a central authority. It was conceived that they touched on matters of too great detail by recommending specific measures instead of establishing a general principle. If the Council agree with me that we are not proceeding with undue haste, and that the slight alterations which have been made were not altogether uncalled for •, I hope on my part to shew that any unnecessary delay in coming to a decision would be of great detriment to the public. The system at present in force in this Province for the management of the waste lands is of two kinds. First, that which applies to lands outside the block. Secondly, to those inside the Canterbury block. The regulations under which these two districts are administered may be seen in the despatch from the Civil Secretary to His Honor the Superintendent, dated Bth August, 1853, which is now lying on the table. The substance of this despatch is: first, as regards the lands which are entrusted to the Commissioner. This officer is instructed to pay, first of all, one-fourth of the proceeds of all the land sales he may effect, to the New Zealand Company. The remaining three-fourths, together with rents, fees, &c, are charged first with the payment of the expenses of the department, that is to say the salaries of the Commissioner himself, and of his staff. As Hoon as all these claims have been satisfied, the surplus is to be divided into two parts ; the one for purposes of emigration, the other to be paid over to the Provincial treasury, for the use of the Province. We have no documents before us by which to judge of the state of the land revenue in this district. The Commissioner steadily refuses to supply us with any information. This is, however, a matter of comparatively minor importance, because as a matter of fact, there is, I believe, no revenue at all, although I have it upon very reliable authority that the district in question ought, if properly managed, to produce a revenue of at least £2000. Not only this considerable loss to the revenue incurki, aut at the same time the district remains unsurveyed, and the Commissioner is entirely in the dark as to its capabilities and extent, except from the information which may from time to time be supplied to him by the squatters who inhabit those distant 'regions. This is the state of the lands outside the Canterbury Block. As regards those within that block,. Mr*. Brittan has been instructed to manage them. The information given to him for. his - guidance lis very brief. The arrangements in force under the Canterbury Association are to continue in operation for the present until His Excellency the Governor or the Jeneral Assembly1, make further regulations ; and His Excellency does not intend to make

further regulations until the wishes of the colonists have been made known to him. Mr. Brittan has received no instructions as to the manner in which the land fund is to be expended, for instance, whether one-fourth is to be paid to the New Zealand Company, or whether it is to be expended according to the regulations of the Canterbury Association. Here then we have two different systems in operation in the same Province. In the one there are very precise and no doubt valuable instructions as to how the revenue is to be expended, but, unfortunately, there is no revenue to expend. In the other there is a large revenue of about £2,400, but no instructions as to how it is to be applied. Now it is a matter of most urgent necessity that this state of thing should be put an end to at once, and that, at least until some final arrangement is made, some intelligible system of administration should be adopted. Before coming to any decision as to what alterations we wish made in the present system, it would be as well to come to a clear understanding as to the exact position in which we are placed. By the Constitution Act, the General Assembly is alone competent to make laws for regulating the sale and disposal of the waste lands, but, pending the assembling of that body, the Governor has the power of regulating the sale and disposal. A question has, as we all know, been raised as to whether this latter delegation of power authorizes the Governor to make new laws upon the subject. The highest court in the colony has decided that he is not authorized to do so. I do not wish at present to enter into this question except in order to remark that, whether legally or illegally, the Governor has, as a matter of fact, assumed this power, and that it is in the exercise of this power that he has altered the price of land in other parts of the colony and retained it in this. From this it appears that in considering the land question we have to be guided by two separate considerations. First, what course shall we adopt to provide for the present temporary emergency, while the lands are under the control of the Governor. Secondly, how shall we proceed in reference to the permanent state of things which will be produced by the meeting of the General Assembly. I will refer to the second head first for the sake of dismissing it. I believe there is no difference of opinion as to its being desirable that the Provinces ought to have the control over their waste lands. At all events we know that the General Assembly alone has the power of granting us this boon. At present I wish more particularly to refer to existing circumstances with a view to the adoption of measures suitable to the temporary system under which we are placed. I have endeavoured to explain the inconveniences by which we are now so immediately and sensibly affected, and it is as a means of remedying these inconveniences that I have to propose the first set of resolutions before you, as the substance of an address to His Excellency the Governor. I would call your attention especially to the fact that these resolutions do not propose any alteration in the law, but refer exclusively to matters connected with the administration of the law—that is to say, to the management of the waste lands and to the expenditure of the land fund. At present the management is inefficient and costly ; we wish to make it more efficient and cheaper. At present the expenses of the two land departments in this Province are as follows: —First, the Commissioner's department :— Colonel Campbell's Salary £300 Allowances and travelling ex-) penses, say .....J Mivßoys' Salary 250 Total 600 The expenses of Mr. Brittan's department are :— Mr. Brittan's Salary £300 Mr. Cass ". 300 Mr. Davie 150 Mr. Marshman 200 Draughtsman 91 Total 1041 Thus the whole expenses of the Land department in this province are £1641. I should mention that Mr. Brittan has as yet, I believe, received no intimation from Government as to the amount of his salary, but I cannot suppose for a moment that it "would be less than the sum I have mentioned. Now it must be evident that if these two departments were incor

porated into one, the expense would be considerably diminished, and the real fact of the case is, that the whole work might be performed much more efficiently than at present, by the LandOffice at Christchurch alone. Such a system as that which I have described, would never for a moment have been thought of, had tbe Provincial Government on the spot had the devising of measures for administering the waste lands. We should have been too careful of funds which are so indispensably necessary for other objects, to have squandered them on so useless an office as that of the Commissioner of Crown lands ; and not only this, but we should have added to them the uncollected revenues arising from pasturage rents. The want of the funds arising from land, comes home to all of us more or less sensibly. There is an urgent and pressing need that the chief roads should be immediately put into a state of repair. The metalling of the Riecarton and Papanui roads are works of indispensable necessity—a bridle path to Akaroa is another work that requires consideration. I believe, I am correct in saying that the expense of completing these works would be between jg4ooo and £5000 ; and this sum, I have reason to believe, could be raised without difficulty as soon as we obtain the administration of the land-fund. Until we obtain that administration we cannot anticipate a single farthing of our revenue, but must be contented to receive and expend by driblets the small sums which may, from time to time, become available. Now owing to the present scarcity of labour and draught-power in the settlement, we cannot at every period of the year undertake works of this nature, we must wait till employment in the ordinary operations of the farm become slack, and the only time when this occurs is the interval between the sowing of the crops and the reaping of the harvest, so that unless we have funds in hand we cannot undertake any of the works which I have specified. There is another subject which will demand our most early an d serious consideration —Imean that of emigration. I would refer honorable members to the circular letter from Messrs. Money and Wigram on this subject, which seems to suggest a means of facilitating this object. Here again we are met by the want of some fixed and definite source of revenue, without which it is impossible to enter into any undertaking of a permament or systematic nature. In short, without a control over the expenditure it is impossible for the Government to fix upon anysettled scheme of policy. As the case stands at present, the irresponsible agent of the Government has the first claim upon the land revenues of the Province for the expenses of his own department, and he is thus enabled to incur the most useless and frivolous expenses without any efficient control; for he can only be restrained from committing mistakes by the Central Government, which would probably pay but little attention to any representatations or remonstrances on the part of the Province ; at all events even if redress were obtained it could only be several months afterwards, and in the mean time any amount of mischief might have been done: while if the lands were administered by some authority on the spot, an immediate stop might be put to any mischievous or impolitic measures. These are generally the views with which these resolutions have been drawn up, and I am authorized to state on the part of the Superintendent that, should the powers we seek be accorded to us by the Government, His Honor would be ready to lay all rules for the management of the lands before tbe Provincial Council, and be guided by their advice: and further lam authorized to say that the Provincial Government would be immediately prepared with apian for the administration of the lands. That that plan would involve the division of the Province into three districts, to each of these an inspector would be appointed, whose duty it would be to see that the regulations in force were carried out. These inspectors would be surveyors. The effect of some plan of this sort would be that without any increase of the permanent staff, the surveys would be carried on as occasion required and funds became available. A constant inspection of all the runs in the Province would be maintained. The regulations of whatever kind, whether central or local, would not be evaded, and the vevenue would be duly collected. All the officework, such as looking over accounts, issuing licenses, &c, might be performed by the machinery at present in command, and a supervision of the whole might be kept by the Superintendent himself. These are the remarks which I

have to make in reference to the first set of resolutions I wish to propose in Committee. You will observe that they have nothing to do with any alteration of the law, they only deal with matters as they now stand—with matters of administration and management. All that we want to effect is that the powers that are now entrusted to an irresponsible agent of the Central Government, should be delegated to responsible agents controlled by authorities on the spot. As to the second set of resolutions intended to be embodied in an address to the General Assembly they do touch upon any alteration of the law, and are therefore addressed to the only power competent to alter the law. With these remarks I beg to move that the council do now resolve itself into committee for the purpose of adopting the resolutions on the waste lands.

The Council then resolved itself into a Committee, and, after a lengthened discussion, adopted them, with some verbal amendments proposed by Mr. Dampier. The Council then resumed, and adopted the first set, as the substance of an address to His Excellency the Governor-in-Chief, and the second set to be embodied in an Address to the General Assembly.

The Council then went into Committee on the " Government Gazette Bill, 5' and the " Protection of Members' Bill," which were passed with some amendments.

The Council then adjourned. The following are the Resolutions as adopted by the Council.

Resolutions on the subject of Waste Lands, to be embodied in an Address to His Excellency the Governor-in-Chief

1. That iv the opinion of this Council the administration of all the Waste Lands of the Province ought to be committed to the Provincial Government of the Province.

2. That in the opinion of this Council there is immediate and urgent need that the funds arisiug from the Waste Lands of the Province should be placed at the disposal of the Provincial Guvernoient of the same, to be expended by the Superintendent and Executive Government, with the advice and consent of the Provincial Council.

3. That an Address be presented to His Excellency the Governor, praying that, pending any laws to be made upon the subject by the General Assembly of New Zealand, His Excellency will be pleased to take such steps as may be necessary to carry the above resolutions into iminediaje effect

Resolutions on the subject of the Waste Lands, to be embodied in an Address to the General Assembly.

1. That in the opinion of this Council the disposal of the Waste Lands of this Province, either by sale or by letting the same for Pasturage purposes, the entire management and administration of tbe same, and the disposal of all the revenues arising therefrom, (subject to payment to the General Government of such portions as may be properly payable to tbe New Zealand Company, and for the service of the General Government,) ought to be conducted solely according to laws to be enacted by the Superintendent and Provincial Council of the Province.

2. That Addresses from this Council be presented to His Excellency the Governor, and to both Houses of the General Assembly, praying them to make such laws as may be necessary for giving effect to the above resolution. FRIDAY, Oct. 14. Mr. Hamilton moved for leave to bring in a bill for making certain revenues, in virtue of particular ordinances hitherto received by " Treasurers of Districts," payable to, and receivable by, the Provincial Treasurer. He explained that by the Sub-Treasurer had keen hitherto received fees collected by clerks in the Magistrate's courts, fees on dogs registered, publicans' licenses, &c, all which were properly revenue belonging to the Province. The Limitation- of Patronage Bill was read a second time. The Government Gazette bill was advanced a stage. The Scab Amendment bill was further considered. In answer to a question by Mr. Hall Mr. Hamilton stated that the Superintendent had not yet received authority to issue bush licenses but had made application to the Governor for that purpose.

In answer to another question by Mr. Hall, Mr. Hamilton stated on behalf of the Superintendent that the Government did not propose this session to bring in any measure for enlarging the Council, but that the question was uuder consideration with a view, at an early period, to bring forward such a measure. TUESDAY, J Bth Octobrr. The Council met at 4, p.m. The Speaker communicated the the Superintendent's sanction of the employment of such extra clerks as may be required, and also certain suggestions of His Honor as to printing Bills. government gazette bill. On Mr. Tancred's motion, this Bill was recommitted, Mr. Bowen in" the Chair. Mr. Dampier moved an amendment, to the effect that the Council should have authority to publish matter in the Gazette, as well as the Superintendent. After some discussion, the amendment was negatived. The Chairman brought up the report. The Limitation of Patronage Bill was also passed through Committee. * EXECUTIVE GOVERNMENT BILL. Mr. Hamilton asked leave to withdraw this Bill, as hampered with too much detail, and as containing two separate subjects. He would introduce two Bills instead, one relating to the Public Seal, and the other to the Executive Government, more simple in form. He would move for a suspension of the Standing Orders, so far as to bring these two Bills to the same stage as the withdrawn bill would have reached on Friday. Mr. Hall would oppose the suspension of the Standing Orders. WASTE LANDS. ADDRESS TO GENERAL ASSEMBLY. Mr. Tancred moved the adoption of Addresses to the Governor, the Legislative Council, and the House of Representatives, praying them to legislate so that the entire management of waste lands of the Province may be under the control of the Superintendent and Provincial Council. Mr. Rhodes seconded the motion, Mr. Packer thought this motion premature. The House of Representatives did not exist, though he thought it ought to be called into existence. Although he was strongly of opinion that what was asked for in these Addresses could not be legally obtained from the Governor alone, but only with the sanction of the House of Representatives (hear, hear,) he would prefer addressing only the Governor, as that House did not exist. He moved an amendment to that effect Mr. Dampier seconded the amendment, concurring in the objection to address a body not yet in existence. Mr. Hall' defended the course of addressing the Legislative body to which the ultimate power of making laws on this subject must belong. The General Assembly consisted of three estates : the Governor, the Legislative Council, and the House of Representatives. By addressing the Governor alone, his Excellency might understand that the Council wished him alone to make laws on the subject; and he felt sure all would wish to avoid giving rise to such a misunderstanding (hear, hear), ~ Mr. Hamilton observed that if the Provinvincial Council could only address the House of Representatives when both were sitting, the opportunities might be very rare. How did the honourable member (Mr. Packer) know the General Assembly was not actually sitting ? For all he knew, it might have been called together at Auckland, and enough members be there to form a quorum. The House of Representatives was in in existence, although not yet called into action. This Council had already passed resolutions, agreeing to adopt these addresses. Mr. Packer said that he had very good reason to believe that tbe General Assembly was not sitting, and even that it was not very likely to sit (hear and laughter). He was therefore for requesting the Governor alone in the words of tbe address, "to cause such laws to be made" as they desired , and this he might take to be a call upon him, —to cause them to be made in a constitutional way—that is, by the General Assembly (bear, hear.) i Mr. Tancred said the proposer of the amend-

ment and himself held similar views, bnt differed as to the mode of carrying them out. They both agreed that the Governor had not brought the Constitution Act into force as he ought to have done, but differed as to the best way of expressing that feeling formally. The Council had already addressed the Governor in his executive capacity on this subject: but if they were to address him alone in his legislative capacity, it must be remembered that he was not sitting in that capacity any more than the other two bodies which, together with the Governor, compose the General Assembly. That assembly was, as it were, fthe Parliament of New Zealand ; aud although not sitting, was in existence. He trusted that the honorable member would see that they were both advocating the same principle. Mr. Packer was satisfied with this explan^ tion, and withdrew his amendment The motion was carried. After some notices of motion, the Council adjourned. WEDNESDAY, OctJ9. The Council met at 11 a.m. . Scab Amendment bill. The Bill was re-committed, Mr. Cass in the chair. On the Ist clause, repealing the old Ordinance of New Munster, a long discussion took place as to the power of the Provincial Council to repeal any such Ordinance, even so far as it might affect Canterbury. Mr. Dampier and Mr. Packer, speaking in support of an amendment to expunge the clause; and Mr. Hall, Mr. Tancred, Mr. Bealey, and Mr. Hamilton, in support of the clause. Ayes 3 # Noes, 5. Mr. Dampier rose to move that the names of the members, and their votes, be taken by the Chairmau. A lengthened discussion took place on the point of order; but at length Mr. Dampier adopted the Speaker's suggestion, that he should give notice of motion, to the effect of inserting in the Standing Orders some provision for the authentic record of the votes given by members: since, however desirable it might be that publicity and authenticity should be given to them, there was no such provision now. The Bill was then proceeded with, clause by clause, several objections and suggestions being made by Mr. Dampier. The arguments, however, were the same as'those brought forward on a former consideration. The bill was not materially altered. An amendment by Mr. Hamilton, to tbe effect of reducing the fine on landnig scabby sheep, if on the quarantine ground, from ss. to 2s. per head, was lost. The Council adjourned for half an hour at 3 p.m. On their re-assembling, the remaining clauses of the Scab Amendment Bill were considered. To the Editor of the Lyttelton Times. Sib, —You would greatly oblige by ir>% serting the following in your next. It should be the duty of every true-born Englishman to pay respect to the interment of the dead, and it is with feelings of reluctance I venture to make a public allusion to two cases which have recently occurred in this Port, considering the credit of the inhabitants to be at stake should a repetition of the circumstances occur. I think it would be advisable to adopt some measure whereby our fellow creatures who may chance to come to an untimely end may be conveyed to their final resting place in a manner becoming a christian land. Itmustbe repulsive to the feelings of our christian friends to see a corpse paraded through our public streets, the coffin exposed to view, and in one case lashed together with a cord. W the inhabitants were to contribute a small sum, a pall may be purchased and kept for the purpose referred to, and thus place the funeral ceremony on a footing with the pauper burials in the mother country. Hoping it will deserve public notice, I remain, your's respectfully, A Christian.