WOODHILL.

Kaipara and Waitemata Echo, 4 September 1912, Page 3

WOODHILL.

An address was delivered on Thursday last at Woodhill, dealing with the subject of the state of the dead. Mr Milner said in his introductory remarks that if, as he contended, the bible taught the unconsciousness of the dead, then there was no room for the theories of spiritism, a place of departed spirits, purgatory, etc. He pointed out that the orthodox churches had lost the truth which feed and ■fired the reformers Tyndale and Lutber, especidlly; the former who in a controversy with Sir Thomas Moore on the subject now under consideration said " by putting souls in heaven or hell at death you destroy the arguments -where with our Lord and Paul prove the resurrection". A brief outline was then given of a previous address on the nature of man, especially emphasising the fact that man has no preheminence over the beast that both are quickened by the same spirit, and that when God withdraws that spirit of life, both die and return to dust (£cc 3. 19 E. V. .) Now, said the speaker, when man dies and returns to dust is he conscious ? Turn to Psalm 146. 4 . . . , his breath (spirit) goeth forth he returneth to hia earth. In that very day his thoughts perish". Many passages were then quoted speaking- of death as silence, Psalms 115 16, and 88, 12-14, were illustrated by the words of Hezikiah (Isaiah 38. 18 ); "In death there is no remembrance of thee "Ps 6. 5). Argument was finally clinched by quoting Eec 9, 5, 6 and 10, in which are these words •' the dead know not anything "'. Scripture was further quoted" to show that death was looked upon as a sleep and resurrection an awakening, and also that where they slept was the dust of the earth,(Dan 12. 2.) "Dust thou art and unto dust shalt thou roturn," " man turns to dust again " no where in the bible does it say he goes to a place of departed spirits. Mr Milner further touched upon some of the difficulties and inconsistances m orthodox teaching : three large denominations teach that the good go to hoaven when they die, note John 3. 13. " No man hath ascended into heaven " John 20,17. " Hold not on to me for I am not yet ascended unto my Father" Acts 2. 34 David is not ascended into the heavens , these are plain defiDate statements and they contradict ortho^ doxy. If the early church believed that they who die in Christ are with him previous to resurrection, how coaid Paul write Tbes 4. 15, Orthodoxy dispenses with the need of resurrection and destroys the argument of Paul in 1 Cor 15, 18, and that of our Lord in Matt 22 for that doctrine. If our Lords conception of that state of the dead was that they wore alive and conscious,instead of proving resurrection he was disproving it. The rich man and Lazarus also present difficulties ; if scene was in a place of departed spirits, how comes!: that there are flesh beings with fingers, eyes, tongues, etc, the latter certainly shows, if it is an historical incident,that resurrection had taken place. •' The church today has lost hope of the second coming," and therefore it is assumed, Paul hoped to bo with the Lord at death, but not so, he says " not that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon (2 Cor 5. *). When he comes so shall we be for ever with the Lord ".