PARLIAMENT.

King Country Chronicle, Volume VII, Issue 603, 17 September 1913, Page 5

PARLIAMENT.

THE STONEWALL - r LEGALITY OF ESTIMATE? \ V s * DEBATE RESUMES TO-DAY. [isy 'i i:r.i:ci{apu.— \>«h-i vnov.l Wellington. TuepO :t v. In the House after the kHK-heon i hedebate was continued. A' 2. .Ml Mr Massey stated reports were now available for members. He honed Hie waste of time would now cease. Sir Joseph Ward suggested they should report progress in order to allow members to peruse the reports and then go back into Committee. His side of the House would not offer any obstruction to again going into Committee. Mr Massey said the reports were laid on the table of the Legislative Council at 2.30 that day. He also wanted to make a statement to the House.

Sir Joseph Ward said that was the first time in the history of Parliament that such procedure as stated by the Premier had been carried out. Reports should not go before the Council, but before the representatives of the people. Mr Massey repeated that the reports had been circulated and were available for members. He stated that in 1911 when the Ward Government was on the Treasury bencheß reports were not laid before the Housn until after the Estimates had been disposed of. He would ask the Speaker to resume the chair in order that the reports could be laid before the House if he had the assurance of the Opposition that the report would not be discussed on presentation.

Sir Joseph Ward wanted to know when they would have an opportunity of discussing the report. He had a moat important statement to make on one of the reports, and could not get the opportunity of doing so because the chairman would pull him up. It seemed as if an attempt was being made to gag members. Mr Massey said what he had done had been done dozen 3 of times.

Sir Joseph Ward said he bad received opinions from two of the ablest lawyers in the country, which he desired to place before the House. They were from Mr SkerrJt and Sir John Findlay. If the Prime Minister, after hearing those opinions did not report progress ha would be taking more responsibility on his shoulders than he (Sir Joseph) would care to take. Con tinuing, he stated the Estimates as they were passing them were illegal. The Public Service Commissioner fixed salaries and they could not be altered by Act of Parliament. He then quoted the opinions mentioned, whih set out in terms of the Public Service Act passed last session the Estimates were absolutely illegal, because they had not been brought before Parliament in proper form, not having been prepared by the Commissioners as laid down in the Act. He contended Parliament had no right to increase wr decrease salaries except by Act of Parliament. As the law needed altering it was not proper to drive on, but to report progress and set the matter right. Mr Massey said the opinion was one of very eminent lawyers, and he had not taken an opinion himself, but the opinions he had heard were different from those Sir Joseph Ward quoted. Lawyers differed and judges s di fie red. The Estimates they were discussing were submitted to Parliament by representatives of the people for the time being. The position was exactly the same as prior to the"coming into operation of the Public Service Act. If those legal gentlemen submitted that Parliament could not reduce the Estimates as brought down, he submitted with all due defSVrenee (hey wore wrong and quoted frDivt the Constitution Act in support of his argument. It was iKt possible tor 'he Public Service Commissioner submit estinustes to Parliament. 'i he Estimate* could not be brought into effect until the Appropriation Act camp into law. If anything wa? wrong 31 could l>o set righi in that Act. He would {be c-pinum of the Solicitor-General on the poini. but would not agree to report progress. Mr Wilford contended that if the salaries wore statutory they could not be altered by the House. The Act set | out thai, the Public Service Commisi sionor shall set oui flu' Estimates ; and forward them to the. Governor | and from him they went to the Minj istry, and on to the The Hon. Mr Herri man said the I Estimates were on account, The ; Supplementary Estimates must he brought down later on. ile would ! point out the Public Service salaries | were paid under the Public Service : Act just as judges were paid under She ! civil list and never camo hefovo the i House. ; After the telegraph office cioeoif nt j 2 o'clock a division on Mr Atmorcs j motion was taken, the figures being: i Ayes, 1 1 ; noes -'!2.