ADDRESS-IN-REPLY.

Hokitika Guardian, 3 August 1922, Page 4

ADDRESS-IN-REPLY.

ME SEDD'ON’S SPEECH

(Hansard Report)

Mr Seddon (Westland).—Mr Speakeiy we have heard two very interesting speeches from the mover and the seconder of the Address-i n- Reply, and then the Leader of the Opposition moved an amendment to the Address, in which lie incorporated some of the most serious charges ever levelled against the Government. Wo have listened very patiently on this side of the House to hear if any Minister of tlie Crown, or the Premier himself, would reply to some of these charges. The most serious one, in my opinion, and in the opinion, I think, of members of the House, is that—- “ The Government has failed to redeem the promise that on the repeal of the second ballot another method of election would lie substituted.” That promise was given, in 1912. The Eight Hon. the Premier laughs. And when it was suggested that another form of election should he substituted—the system of proportional ’representation-—the Eight Hon the Premier made some reference to “that idiotic system.” T ask the Prime Alin isfcer if he is going to reply to this debate in the charge of the lender of the Opposition, and if the promise made by him in 1912 is going to be carried out. We accepted in 1912 the the assurance of the Premier that some change in the electoral system would he made. The Eight Hon Air Afassey.—No, Von did not. Von stonewalled it for a week.

AH Seddon.—We held up the Goveminent over that measure lor some considerable time in tiio hope that we might obtain an assurance from them that they would put something inplace of the second ballot, and not revert to toe present position in this country. We even failed to get satisfactory replies from the Government, and the general elections have been held over since under this anomalous or “first past the post” system. The leader of the Opposition has quoted certain figurc s which 1 hope and trust the Prime Alinister will reply to in due course. Either the Prime Alinister or the Alinister of Internal Affrairs should reply to these i.gurcs. which are as follows: In 1919 no fewer than thirty members were returned oil a minority vote- nineteen I’eformers, six Liberals, and five Labour members. I say that is the condition of affairs in this country to-day. and it is a condition which should not he allowed to exist.

The Eight lion Air Alassey. Does th:iL include Dunedin North r Air Sodden. Yes. it includes Dunedin North. '1 hose are the facts; they have not been contradicted, and it remains for the Government to give seine assurance to this country that some fairer system will he substituted. The following figures were also mentioned by the leader of the Opposition: gtKi.ttoO votes were cast for Reform, and H-lO.POO against Ileform. We find that the system of proportional representation is being or has been adopted 1 1 v many of the leading countries of the world. It may. of course, secern somewhat ciiniher-

some at iirst, Imfc it nevertheless makes I'nr fairer representation, linrke said, referring to tlio ruination of fair representation,-

“The virtue, the spirit, the essence of the Mouse of Commons (Parlinnieut) consists in its being the express image of the notion.'’ Ami .Mr Asquith lias said: “Proportional representation reflects every strain of public opinion—that was what made democratic government in the long run safer and more free and stable.” And “'Pile House of Parliament should be the mouthpiece and the mirror of the National mind.” fs the Parliament of New, Zealand the mouthpiece and the mirror of the national mind;' Certainly not. We have not heard la single re fe Men do from any member of the Reform side of the House tending to show why be adopted. 1 agree that those who proportional representation should not have studied the position admit that there are certain inperfeetion.s in it, but it is also admitted that it is the host system offering at the present time Although it is brushed aside by tire Prime Minister and his Govcrnmeiit, they have used no convincing arguments which would tell the people ,wh.v proportional representation should not he adopted in New Zealand for our parliamentary elections. We find that the system favoured by representative men in the Old Country—politicians, statesmen, philo sophers, and thinkers—and they assure us that it i s a safe and sound system to adopt. We have hitherto prided ourselves that we led the world in advanced and scientific legislation, and it seems unfortunate that we should be behind in the matter of proportional representation. The following are some of the prominent men in the Old Country who are associated with the Proportional Representation Society there: The president is Earl Grey, and the chairman of the general council is the Right Hon Lord Parmoor, K.C.Y.O. The vice-presi-dents are tire light Hon Lord Balfour of Burleigh. Kt.; the Right Hon G. N. Barnes, M.P., the Right Hon, Earl Beauchamp, K.G.; the Right Hon. Lord Birkenhead; the Viscount Burnham. (ML; the Right Hon Thomas Burt; the Right Hon. Ford Robert Cecil, K.C., M.P.; the Lady Courts noy of Penwith; Mrs Henry Fawcett. T/.L.D. ; the Bight Hon. Marquess of Lansdowne, K.G., the Right Hon. Sir Donahl Maclean, K.8.E., M.P.; the Right Hon. Viscount Millner, G.C.8.; the Right Hon. Sir Alfred Mond, Bart., M.P.; Walter Morrison J.P.; the Right Hon. 0. H. Roberts, M.P.; the Right Hon Earl of Selborne, K.G. the Right Hon Sir John Simon, K.C.; Robert Smillie, president Miners’ Federation of Great Britain; the Right Hon J. H. Thomas M.P. I put those on record because there has been some kind of attempt throughout the Press and also on the Government side of the House to belittle the arguments which have been used by members on thi s side of tho House to bring home to the Government the crime which they committed in making a promise which they apparently never intended to fulfil. Now, in pass

ing from that first indictment to the second one, I should like to briefly touch on a matter contained, in the second ' one, because-" it has already been amplified not only | y the leader of the Opposition but by other speakers. The amendment proposed contains the following:“(1) It ha s failed to redeem the promise that on the repeal of chi second ballot another method of elec-tim would be substituted. “(2> It lias failed to efficiently administer tbe finance of tbe countiy, thereby imposing upon the people addtional burdens’, and lias failed to curtail or control grass extravagances and wasteful expenditure in the administration of public departments, and to run such .Departments on sound business lines.” The last speaker emphasised the point that taxation in this country had increased, especially during the war period, and lie referred in hif speech to the present state of affairs showing that taxation had become fai too heavy. He said that the country had been living on credit and hot rowed money, and then referred t< tli e increase in income tax. Well, Sir we only need to remember what was said by tbe Premier "'lien be spokt recently on the finances of the court try, and to refer to the Year-hook t< find out what position the country Ini at last come to. We find that thing

are becoming more and more serious, niul yet in face of that we find the Premier says that taxation has been reduced; but when we go ’ n t« the matter we find that taxation has only been reduced in two instances—first, by the reduction of 10 per cent, in till' case of the payers of land-tax, and, second, the 5-per cent reduction in the case of the payers of income tax—tho amount remitted, to those people under those two heads being £500.(,'00. Then we are told that the revenue this year is £0,133,054 less than that of lass year; the expenditure is £308,000 more than last year; the payment out of accumulated surpluses is £278,871; a fid the deficit this year i s £339,000. Tf this remission to the payers of land-tax. find ineome-tax had not been made and tbev are people who we might assume could find some means of paying those tuxes—that would have been £500,000 which the (lovernent would have had additional to help the finances at tlic country. There arc other msuim es in which the taxation on the public generally has become heavier throughcut the country, and which we on this side of the House teel ought not to have been imposed. We have been told 'that it was necessary to make the railways pay, and so freights went up, and we are told that the Postal Department deemed it expedient to increase the charges in that Department. Whether that was wise or not

remains to he seen, hut it is an nc- . cepted fact that alien business is I slack, that is not the time to increase | charges. When business is falling off | the wise mail does not hump up prices '

Imt brings them down to what is a fair charge lit order to endeavour to increase business. Surely that seems a sound enough argument. 1 wa s interested to hear the speech of the honourable member for Wanganui on the administration of the Kailway Department. and 1 consider it only right that the Minister of Railways should reply and so relieve some of the doubts that are in our minds at present.

The Hon Air Outline. -That is all ‘ ri i'll t. Air iseddon.—l am glad to nndor- ’ stand from the Alnister that he intends to address "the House; 1 am sure we shall he pleased to hear him. 1 wish to say to the honourable gentleman. who is also Minister of J.ands, that when the Forestry Hill was un--1 dor dismission last session we looked to him as the -Minister who would 1 watch the interests of the settlors as opposed to those who would receive benefit under the Act. The provisions I of the- Act, many people thought. ‘ would he harmful to the interests of settlers, and the iiope was expressed that the Minister would see that set- • tiers "ere not detrimentally affected under the Act. AVo have since found 1 that there have been certain cases in - which hardship has been inflicted on settlers. Two cases in my district I , have brought under the notice of the i Minister who has been very attentive to them and has considered them on their merits, ft must happen, perhaps, that in bringing in an Act like ; the Forestry Act. where many m- ‘ terests are diametrically opposed .to i each other, some people will suffer. - and while we have on the West Coast litany millions of acres reserved as I Stale forests, it cannot but happen 1 that some of the settlers will he > affected by the operation of the Act. I have mentioned two eases to the Minister, And I trust he will look i into their merits and see that the settlors eoneorned are not dotrimen- , tally affected by the provisions of the > Act. While forestry is ad very well . m its way, and we deem it expedient to set aside areas from which to i out timber in years to come, we do not want to see the settlers suffer, i There is also this aspect of the forest- ! ry legislation; that the sawmillers throughout New ZOalanl are now un- ! dor the control of the Forestry Department—no longer do they come under the jurisdiction of the Warden—and there are certain difficulties in the way the Act operates. I am glad that at the present time we have in the House the Minister in charge of Forestry ; the former Minister was in another place. As T have said there are certain difficulties—l refer to the matter of the regulations and their application at the present time when sawmillers are going through a very critical period in their business. AVc are confidently looking forward, therefore, to the announcement in the House by the Minister of Internal Affairs ns to what arrangements ho has been able to make with Australia in the way of reciprocal treaty, in order to learn whether New Zealand timber cannot be exported to Australia on more advantageous terms than at present exist under the tariff regulations. That announcement will he made, we hope, in the course of a day or two. I am sure if the Minister has gone into the question—and T think i lie has—of the way in which the tariff operates in New Zealand, and how ] it affocts the sawmillers throughout < New Zealand, he will say he is trying 1 to bring about better arrangements j

with the Commonwealth of Australia,

I regret that the Minister, who is temporarily in charge of the Forestry Department is not in his place at present, becaust there is a question T should like to put to him. It is this: We had the assurance of the Prime Minister and the Attorney-General that the rates, rents, and royalties taken away from the local bodies on the West Coast and throughout the South Island, through the sawmilling lands being brought under the For-estry-Act and no longer remaining under the -regulations of the Mining Act, would he made up to the local ; bodies. So far that has not been ' done. I trust the matter wiU be not- ' ed by the Minister of hands, who knows very well the operations ol the Forestry Act, because be followed the 3 measure closely in its passage through the House. Now, -Sir, there is a mat--3 ter to which 1 desire to refer, a- mnt--4 ter which is of great importance to ’ the district I represent. That subject ! ' is the consideration given to the Greymouth Harbour Board. T desire to " ! say that what the Government have 3 clone recently in their consideration • of the appeal from Grey mouth has 3 met with the entire approval of the 3 people throughout my constituency. You may not know. Sir, hut a great 3 deal of concern was felt in the down s of Westport, when, through an aps peal from Greymouth, Westport was

to have a ninepenny wharfage rate placed on coal, honnerly the Port of Westport had only a sixpenny rate, | and the advantage Westport was en- ! joying was likely to act very detri--1 mentally to Greymouth. We do not I know what the effect will •»' when ] the f)tira Tunnel opens, but we want the Government to let things stay as 1 they are until we can see what the effect will he. There are those who sn.y there will he no falling off in the export of seaborne eoal, and that while coal has to be shipped to Auckland, Wellington, and other ports--though a certain amount will go through the Otira Tunnel to Canterbury and possibly Otago—there will always he sufficient trade to keep the Port of Grey going. Wc do not want to see a preference given that will act detrimentally to the Port ol Greymouth. While on the subject another matter is suggested to me affecting the welfare of Greymouth. 1 should like to point out to the Government that the position that Maori lands are j in in Greymouth is entirely unsatisfactory, and one that ought to he legislated upon. Last session a Bill was introduced at the instigation of i the Greymouth people, but tlie Govj eminent, owing to the lateness of the introduction of the Bill, and in con.sei quenee of the death of the Southern I Maori member, decided to postpone i it.s consideration. Now, those who ] want to see every town in New Zea-

land go ahead will realize that the people of Greymouth are suffering iv very great hardship because of the position of these lands. Last year the people of Rotorua who wished to

I obtain the freehold of the land were j enabled to do so, but that is not the I position at Greymouth, and consequently great hardship is being inflict- | ed upon* the people there who have I Native leases, and there is also hnrdi ship upon the Native owners. The j honourable member for the Southern Maori District will. I am sure, agree with me that the present position is quite unfair to the Native owners. Those owners, a lew years ago made

application to have their land partitioned .and Air Justice Chapman and the Chief Justice, commenting upon the position, made certain remarks , showing that the Natives were not getting from their lands all they should get, because the law was operating against them. In 1921, the rents from these lands amounted to C 1,140, hut they had to pay on that £2.181 hv way of land-fax, because (the lands were not individualized, and the. trustees were taxed on the gross value. That is the position at the present time. The Natives are not getting a fair thing, and at the same time the lessees wish to obtain a better title so that they may put up more substantial buildings and improve the town, hut the ( government so far has taken no action. The Native Trustee is calling a meeting ot the beneficiaries at Kaiapoi, and there he is going into the question. That meeting is to take place, I think, some time in August. AVlien the matter is represented to the beneficiaries 1 hope the honourable member for Southern Maori District will he there, , and if the beneficiaries come to some understanding I hope that legislation will he submitted to the House this session so that the whole question may he cleared up to the satisfaction of the people of (Ireymouth and the Native owners. The Native owners must realize that they are suffering a hardship which can only he remedied by legislation. I hope the Government will take this matter up seriously and put it right this session. Sir, in my opening remarks I referred to the speeches delivered by the mover and the soondcr of the Address-in-lteplv. I wa s very pleased indeed to hear the tone of the speech delivered by the honourable member for Auckland Fast, because it showed that though he sits on the Government, side of the House lie has very advanced and Liberal views. He, however, made an unfortunate remark when he referred to the party led by the Prime Minister as being the party opposed to disloyalty; there was an implication—though it may not have been intentional—that we on this side of the House were not as loyal as the members of the Prime Minister's party, f do not know whether it was the intention of the honourable member to convey that impression, and I hope that the honourable member for Auckland Fast will take an opportunity to rectify that impression. While referring to tlie honourable member for Auckland Fast I want to say that the work he has been doing during the recess by means of his lecturing tour throughout the Dominion on behalf of the blind of New Zealand, in connection with the Sir Arthur Pearson Fund, is one that redounds to his credit. When he visited my eonstit- 1 uency lie made a very eloquent np- - peal to every audience he addressed ,as tht l-esult of which substantial i subscriptions were I hope that' the Government will sub- . 1 sidise Hint fund, and I hope that the < blind of New Zenland will be placed ‘ jin a better position ns a result of the ] <

efforts of the honourable member for | be Auckland East. The last speaker re- |cc ferred to the exorbitant taxation in I tl operation at the present time in New tl Zealand, and made some pertinent re- si marks in regard to soldier-settlement, p I do not think any remarks on that tl subject could be more apt than those o! of General Sir Andrew Russell, who tl is at present the president of the lie- I n turned Soldiers’ Association. General s llussel is conversant with the tondi- t. tions under which the soldiers have ( n been placed on tbe land, and lie knows a tbo hardships they have had to con- h tend with. lie is also acquainted v with many of the iailures which have t taken place. He has made some very 1 sound suggestions in regard to the settlement of returned soldiers, and 1 f trust that the Minister of hands will t take cognizance of hi s remarks. Ju an address at the soldiers’ carnival at i Levin, Sir Andrew Russell said: — i “It was unfair to blame the Govern- i ment generally for tbe position in i which many returned men found themselves, because if tbe Government . j had not purchased land there would i have been a howl from end to end of the Dominion.” That is so. “There would have been a bowl from end to end of the Dominion,” and I am wondering why there has not been a bowl from the West Coast because the Government did not purchase land there for the settlement of soldiers. One paper stated the other day that the cheapest land in the South Island was on the West Coast. Mr L.vsnar It is inferior land. Mi- Seddon.—The land there is inferior in price only, because the people down there do not appreciate the value of then- iandii. They will compare favourably with the host dairy-ing-land in New Zealand, and time will show that they are not inferior. The point I wish to make is that the Government have not purchased lands on the West Coast which were suitable for soldier-settlement. I and others on the est ( oast have recommended the purchase of estates on the West Coast for soldier-settlement, lmt the Government would not purchase. Certain of these estates were purchased afterwards by private people and sold again at big profits. But In refer again to tbe remarks of Sir Audrew Russell. He said: “There would have been a bowl from one end of the .Dominion to the other if those purchases bad not been made. Hut if some foresight and wisdom bad been shown in regard to land settlement, as was shown in the ease of repaf:lot ion 'ho Inodes, bv the setting-up of Hoards of experienced men to ensure that no soldier went on tbe land without a fair chance of success, there would not now be such urgent need for action. As a result many men were put on the land with, an insufficient experience and training, and had not bad time to learn to farm in a skilful way betore tbe fall in produce-prices came. Aoothcr mistake made was in not appointing at whatever cost, experienced supervisors to instruct these men. The Returned Soldiers’ Association suggested to the Government that the whole question was .too serious to be put off by expressions of pious good will. It was a necessary part that rent,, be written off where it call lie shown that the men are unable to pay. Then there should be revaluation for rental purposes. Men unable to make a success of farming at those reduced rentals should go off the land and make way for those who could make both ends meet. Finally, they advocated the revaluation for capital, purposes, which wa s not so urgent but very necessary. Brices ot produce were not stabilized yet. but tbe Returned Soldiers’ Association urged that revaluation be based on the pri'es of produce for the past K waive years. They did Hot claim that as the best basis, but said to the Government. “Find a better one.’’ The Returned Soldiers’ Association made a strong point of a soldier Peiping himself by co-operation, improving hi-, herds, and shouldering his obligation. Many at present were depressed because they did no-, see blue water ahead, like the unjust steward in the liible story. The Government should write off so-much of their indebtedness and restore the hope Hint thev bad lost.”

1 have <|U<>ted tills speech because Sir Andrew Russell, as president of the Returned Soldiers’ Association, knows well the conditions under which these men are labouring, and lie has made the suggestion that there should have been a better selection oi land to put the men on, and that when they went they should have been better instructed. This point was also stress ed by the member lor Waikato. 1 would also like to ask the Minister of Lands, who is also the Minister of Railways, if preparations have been made by the Railway Department for the increasing traffic likely to ensue when the Otira. Tunnel is completed. 1 know that certain enlargements are going to be effected, but they have not yet been started. At Greyniouth the present arrangements are insulli vieuL for the traffic and the travelling public, and unless something is done, under present conditions there will be some accidents. On Saturday nights, and on other nights, when heavy traffic is going through' from Christchurch, there is absolutely no accommodation in the station, which lias also to cope with the passengers coming from Christchurch and going on t” Hokitika, and with the passengers going from Greyniouth to Reefton and so northward. Representations have been made to the Government about I the. necessity for increased facilities . for stacking timber for the sawmillors at Hokitika, and for meeting the applications for sidings; and 1 believe that plans have been approved by the Department and hv those interested in this industry. I hope the Minister will recognise that as soon as the Otira Tunnel is through there will he such an increase in the traffic that it will then he too late to begin these improvements we have in view. Passing to another subject, I wish to mention that some of the legislation of last session is working considerable hardship throughout the country. We find that in the country districts particularly the amendment of the law in respect .to the amusement tax Is operating very unfairly and harshly. At I certain horticultural shows, and agri- I cultural and pastoral association I shows, at poultry shows, subscription I

,nd concerts, and at amusements' linected with charitable purposes is hardship is being inflicted. I ini: the (o. eminent are not making [di a great deal of money out of this irtieula r source o! taxation, and icy might lit 1!) along a very worthy iject conne: ted with tiie whole ot icse shows by remitting the taxation nw imposed. I know of certain ■ nvs which are hit very hard, and icy arc held, not for the sake of mking money, hut only for eucourging the breeding of stock, and tbo 'gislatbm of last .session is operating cry unfairly against them. The (pies ion lias been raised this session by amorous petitions that the Gaming let should he iimended this year. I iresented a big petition in that clirooion from my own district, hut 1 may ay that I have no sympathy with the ■ecjuest. 1 think that if we keep our ■a(ing at its present high standard, uul restricL betting to the totalisator ve are on the right lines. There is, lowever. no' provision in the Gaming \ct for granting to the racing clubs die right to break up large fields and run the races in divisions. At TrenLlmm on Saturday last we had a (le- ( inonstration of the danger that might follow if some of the leading horses fell in these big fields. For the sake of the jockeys and for the sake of the horses themselves it would be far better to allow such races, particularly short-distance races, to be run in heats. If the Minister of Internal Afi'air s would exert himself in that direction he would he doing what is only humane and proper. The honourable. member for Waikato referred to the necessity for having a dairy expert in the High Commissioner’s office. In that matter I am with him. It lias been shown that when there is a rise in the price of butter the producers of the Dominion do not receive any benefit, and if there is a fall they have no .warning. An eminent man in the dairying industry has stated that in connection with the last rise the New Zealand producers lost £30,It would he a good business move to have in the High Commissioner's Ofir.ee a man who knew all about dairying, and who could advise the people here in good time as to what was happening in the English market. Air-dunes.—The dairy people have their own man. All 1 Steddon. -But he is not in touch with the New Zealand Government, and the I’iinie Aiblister admitted in hi s speech -that the middleman got all the profit. The honourable member for Waikato also made several references to tlie dairying industry, showing its progress in Ids district. On the AYcst Coast we have land that could be ((inverted into dairy farms, and v. null by mu li conversion assist in the production ,jf butter and cheese. There aiv factories all over the Coast, but v.o are looking for some help from tin Government in the way of establishing an experimental ..farm. It may surprise members to learn that the land for an • experimental farm was purchased there Mine four years ago, lull there is no stock on it. and no experiments are being carried on, and there is no dairy held to lie an object lesson to settlers. 1 do not intend to recapitulate what has been so well said by the leader of the Opposition, and the honourable member for Nelson, and other speakers on this side of the House, hut 1 do say that the change levelled at the (,‘overnment in connection with- the failure Lo fulfil its promise in the Budget of l!!Id. that something -would he substituted for the second ballot system of election, is one of the most serious charges ever made against it. and no reply lias been forthcoming from the Ministerial benches. At the present time it has been established and abundantly proved time- proportional representation lias acted well in other parts of tlie world, and we on tins side of the House, being convinced that it is tin- best system which exists at the present time, would like to see it introduced, and towards that end wo are making it one of the planks ot our platform in the coming elections.