THE COMMONS DEBATE

Hokitika Guardian, 2 November 1921, Page 1

THE COMMONS DEBATE

“DIE-HARD” MOTION. DETAILS OF DEBATE. ADSTPAUAN AND N.Z. CAm.K ASSOCIATION. LONDON, Oet. 31. In the House of Commons to-day, -the debate on the “Die-Hard” Unionists’ motion in relation to the Irish ('i nference began. Tito Speaker ruled out of order an amendment h.v Lord Cecil, affirming tbaL tbe negotiations were desirable.

Mr Grotten moved the Unionist 1110lion. “condemning the action of the 'Government in negotiating with the Irish delegates, who have taken an diil.li of allegiance to the Irish Republic. and who had thus repudiated the authority of the British Crown: and further, that, no proposals for the Go- ' vernment of Southern Ireland should he made without td'e sanction of the British Parliament.” Speaking to the motion, Mr Grotlon said : "The "hole country desired to know what was going <>n as- regards the Irish situation. He reviewed I events since last autumn, when, he said, the Government was vehement in its determination to suppress the Irish rebellion. He criticised as inadequate the provisions of the truce so far as j protection of loyalists in Ireland went. | lie pointed out that the truce, as a document. was not actually signed. It was plain. sai<l Mr Gretfuu, that the Irish delegates came to the ConCerenoi' in I oiulon with the status which they claimed, namely, that of the representatives of the Irish Republic. Mr Grelton said: “Mr lie Vaj lorn’s telegram to tbe Pope was a de- ' fin nee of the British Government, and j insulting to the Crown, ft was the j price the Government are prepared to j I'nv to secure (lie allegiance of Sinn j Fein, and the surrender of two Ulster i enmities." The Government had made j j i surrender to “g-mgs of assassins.” By j I,idngin.' over represent at ives of “these j ess-,'-sins and murderers" to negotiate j I,m equal terms, the Government had Unwed the 1,-nee to “murderers and as. •oissins” without consultin'' or even informing tb" ’’•rili'di iv op'e Til" IP'i- . i is!, people Iv declared, were not to lie “terrorised i" 1 ” ieurino on the unity o' , tips" islands M H-C dieiutimi of small of 'Oli'idi'ed liv forei"ii money." The VvnWen. e. I- s lid, bad pinetieiilly broken down. The Government mis obviously seeking bn soiih in-eieM oil wbleh it 'lloobl bn d- donut, j ||e added tbat the group whom hr (Afr I Gp-I 1 mi) remesonlod desired peace ill ! Ireland, and that there should lo a "on . f,..,,. jili rem eseoi at i"es of Hie veld | J, o u,|... " !>■• net (be a'dhors ~r ter'- ri''"' wf'i-d' had hem Plowed

to grow up. Air Gwvitne. in seconding the motion denied the Prime Minister’s statement I hat Ihe ltd'll delegates were duly chu t, ell. 11l- were ic reseiitat ives of tlm Irish people. The recent "lections, he declared. were carried put under coercion of u .'ang of murderers. Mr Charles Craig' said th,> 1 Ister Parliament looked oil lhe Irish Conference as one between the Government and Sinn Fein. They had decided not to lake any pari in the discussion, 'provided the Prime Minister assured them that the access iry powers would be given Ulster to enable it to curry outits fiiiietilill at til" I artiest possible moment. Air A. I'eiidei'on said The Lab-ur Party was suppto'ting the Government. This was h"eause the motion raised issues Ill'll were vital, not only to the nation and the Empire, but to the whole English-sneaking nice. The Kalmar Parlv still were opposed In Hie policy of reprisals, which had been fo|_ lowed hv Ihe Government during the past few years, toil Tail,our was mn-e strongly in favour <>t negotiation'' for peace. I T OVD P''’PT,Y. When Mr Lloyd George rose to reply there was prolonged cheering. The Prime Minister said: A very grave issue tool been raised. Il was Hear ihaL a certain section ill t.lie House was full ol misgiving. Mr Lloyd George said that the burden of Mr ('• ret ton's speech was that Ibe Government had not shed enough I,loud, lie admitted that there had been breaches of Ihe time, lint they had been investigated. “We have received g(Va ran fees,” tie said. “which ’-ijnii Fein has been dint, - its hestl to i*«rry mil.” . 1 Coni inning. Mr D<h»|m.>4» <nio:

• ‘This motion condemns the Govern 1„..,i, for imteniu', into ncgiitintions „ill, men e. nsj iring against Ihe Crown. ||e second 1 oiol i' Hull the I'ailiamenl shouh' have preceded the meeting of the ( eiifereiiee It' Government's re pi v is. that no Act -.in none into elferl without I’arliamenl’s nut horil v. If there is an a"i'.--meiit. it „ j]| 1,;,,-,. 1 1 . be roll' ' l icit Ill'll an A,.i „f |> .|--liamenl Nothing can he iloiie wit tin'll the full scrutiny and sanelimi of Parliament It is essential Mint |]i r fNinlVn m u slimiM Im* ln'liiml elored daers. where men can make tentative proensds. witlmut feel ill" thatHm followin'' moi'iiin.' every word would 11" serntiois-d That was the kind "f e.oderenee that business men always adopTed.

The Rreinie!' said ill" House of Collinmsl either trust its negotiators nr repine" them. “H it i’oes not trust I |,e„i." said I Invd Georg", “then one glad man will t" his Govereh'ii and lemler his resiuTial ion. My answer to Ihe other poinl is that if there was to be a eonferenei'. it had to tie with the "tin arc repudiating the a ill llorit v of Ihe Crown. The Cm eriimelit '""Id ~,,( Uiate with —o"t hern Gni"nis|s. The Sinn Feiners. loc the t one _ heiilg. sneal; in the name of the majority of ihe Irish I'onple For the moment the sympathies of Ireland are behind ihese pimple If the Gov'"'omeot did Mel deal will. Sinn Feiners. there would be none ivilli whom it could deal. It wnu d bn iniimssible for this House to decide Mill' whom tbe Government sboo'd n.'j:,|c. The onlv point il vail decide is whetlmr it should enter the eonfer- .,{ alt. On the emit I'.'H'y. the House can decide Hud first- of all. at. whatever cost tile Government ‘rush rebellion anil then deal "Hli Trebnid.”

". , riot ioued ■ Tf t In- Conference is |,...,|,,0. off and il may be I want the House lo fed that il has done . verv 11. j,,., an !'iu'sntrildy he ev-peetivl t° ,1.-,. T can not corneal from the TTo.-se that 1 itiav hn-'c ■' ir ri"i tinuoiii,cement In make- Ihtl l if is imo"ssihlo to peltlo Ihe onestieo "itl’ni't dan"er and dishonour to the country. Tf Mm Pon-

ferenee fails, the first filing my Govern ment will do "ill he. to ask the ITooso of Commons to eonsidenihly strengthen the forces of the Crown in Ireland. Unless it, wore absolutely necessary for the honour nr security of tho country, this is not the time to impose great additional burdens upon the taxpayers and to invite young men once more to risk their lives. Before you do this, you must convince the people that there is no alternative, ff U*' security of

Uio country is menaced, the Throne r"niiclintod. or the Empire mutilated, and if Ireland is established as an alien country, at our most vulnerable point, so that this country cannot use the coast of Tm land for the defence of Britain then Ihe Government would appeal with eimlidenee to the people.”

Th" I’lvmier said he had discussed : the whole situation, which was due in i the fact that certain Powers were to : ’e cunferred en tv.o Parliaments in Ire- j hind sii.i 1. a gimusly. I’lie .Southern | ;'arli..uieut had lint c a.c i.ilo .-xisLeinc ; so soim'il iug in the naturu of a Crown Colons "null have to he set up. This, he said, . oil'd not le be done until tlw t’oiifereiiie negotiations liad been eoneluded. :n toe meantime, he said, l Ister Go.e.uiui'ul was paralysed, and its present. position was intolerable. “There.ore. In- said, “we are willij.gi to give a. pledge I hat unless some tiling ballpens in a lew days, one way or the other, that puts the position right. Wq ahull eii her exercise the powers wo have gut, or we shall miater necessary powers on the Northurn Parliament, j asking the House of Commons to pass ' a short Act during tliw present session. ; 1 {.mid cheers). It would he unfair to' -el up an t Ister Bariiament and depiive ii of ihe only poweis that woiikL enable il to work creditably. lh.it would lie giving an unfair advantage, to its enemies.” The Prime Minister concluded: If the Irish negotiations broke down, tbe country would lie confronted by it position u! unexampled dillii ulty, anil the Government ought nut to commit them, wives te this or that method ol deal- 1 ing will, the situation. Ike appealed for ai. effort which would em out age a„ atmosphere: in the Council, if possible favourable to a .settlement. liberal yieay. Mr Asquith said if this, m0t..... had been submitted a year ago. he wmild have supported it. hut. happily, the of the Glucinium had been opened and it realued Mr" -it 'alio.,. He . bought that a* the rei.se nt tone the r-w mm,'.", "a doing „ dentil to demand ".’edcntia s and passports, and to ‘.m.msc the e barn. - . lev- of the Irish negotiations H" d. - "lined to dwell upon any "Uernat.ve ; of a break-up of the Conference. . Ml- Chanihe.'lain wound up the j ||o om lmsis«Ml \hM \ ho rn-; meni. had .'Ol d"M O to rock bottom, hevend which no British Government I could g*. !

lllMltlN I’UESs; COMMENT. LONDON. Nov. 1. It is a long time Mn e the s.-onc m Hi,, Hi,"-" of Commons was so nnimat,.,l as in the Irish debate. Every seal ",!> tilled ami the gangways were pae-.-,d. members sitting on the steps E'en Hie At turnev-General had to take tefuge m the gall" tv, as tlm ’I ronsiv.-y IP Ueh was oierero"dell. ihe Duk. il of interrupt- • 1 - M, 1 L>vil tieOD'O’ S S poocll . Warding the G-rum'nM, ,11,'.','d negotiations with a »»' gang.” I.ul the Premier generallv i-ieil the 1 louse with him. ,a was a stormy scene later, while V'nTt ■ nddressed ihe 'chair, asking: "AVhv ‘lon’l von can UP some of these houmlers. Tl,e Detuit.v stpeaker asked Mi dons , . .... itlu'raw that expression. ones refused and was toil U fimv the Mouse- After » * 'ii,, s „ crying: “V am sorry I entered 'G .. a. was oil" Nil’ , ' l ‘ , ' v, . (, 7' : -, i r ir 3er Several 0f i,n vv h "real' emphasis, rolsin.' boilVliis eletiehn'l hands over h'is head, and partiim.hu’ly wl>on >e asked for the eoutidei.ee ol tlw U

~f Commons as tin'..' 1" M ' . His speech is interpreted 1,1 ' lolihv as a warning to sum Dm 'H.. “"a".' i'"'." 1 if 'Skier:"*!;::: ;r w;;.,-.,. to ore, the public for a possdde breakdown of th" Conference. "'M. the terrible sequel "f ' 'vd war Tin* rist-.*r imMiilsors fom'rnll> an • • (•.,!, I Thev believe Lloyd Ge 0,;... Will ask the Ulsier section to give up H,e counties of Tyrone and ,n;1 ' 1 Sinn Fein is demanding. 1 lii-y t:.1F,..' lie "ill not give the southern H'tsl, Bariiament any sunerinr stains to l "• Ister Parliament. ueial reelin'' is that the s"eossiim "froo, tlm G'alitio,, of the 10 ,„I,| "Hiohards” will strengthen rather 1 1,.,,, i, oalei. Ihe Cnalilinu. as the Government needs a stronger Oppos.tion, Kld MALE POLITICAL PRISONERS LONDON, Nov. 1.

Yu,'" Kearns, and Misses < oyle. Burke' and Keogh, political oH’enders esenped from Mo.mfioy on Sunday night.. Miss Kearns was arresteil m Vovemher lor driving a motor ear eont;,jllill.. men and much ammunition and amis "Their method of escape is eii known. The women were not missed until the warders lurked up the posnners for the night.