ADDRESS-IN-REPLY.

Hokitika Guardian, 4 December 1918, Page 4

ADDRESS-IN-REPLY.

- HON. H. L. MICHEL’S SPEECH

(Prom “Hansard.”)

The Hon. Air. Michel.—l understand that it has not always been customary to fully debate a resolution such as the one now before the Council. Pi’obably that arose from the fact that the Council in later years has been very much weakened so far as numbers are concerned ; and probably those who were here found time fully occupied upon Committees and other work. I feel, however, that when we are confronted with so many serious problems the people arc entitled to get the best out- of us. I. desire, first, to congratulate the mover and the seconder of the Address-in-lteply to His Excellency’s Speech, and I desire also to-congratulate the other members of the Council who have spoken to the motion. I would now like to take the opportunity of very briefly congratulating the Prime Minister and the Minister of Finance upon their safe return from their trip to Europe. I think it was fortunate they were able to visit Europe and take par ; in the meetings of the War Cabinet. Only a few months ago there existed some doubt in reference to the future disposal of Samoa and other ex-German possessions in the South Seas. If there was any doubt about New Zealand’s intention or opinion in regard to that j matter the visit of the Prime Minister ! and his .able colleague to Great Britain I must have dispelled it and must have I enlightened the British authorities. I '■ feel personally that there is no fear ; whatever that so far as Great Britain is concerned she will ever consent to | these islands reverting to the enemy, or I to any Power which may be a menace ; to the safety of the Empire or of this ' country in the future. There is no doubt, too, that the visit to England enabled shipping problems to some extent to be solved, and that was a most important matter; for, whether we realise it or not, the fact remains that if there had been a l>lo~k in regard to shipping the products of the country we would, as surely as night follows day, very soon have had what is generally spoken of as “hard times.” There is no doubt that that danger is passed, and that the shipping arrangements so far appear to be satisfactory, and we hope they will he even more satisfactory in the future. Then there can be no doubt that the visit of the Ministers to England enabled them to take a survey of the financial outlook with regard to

the future, and especially in regard to the bearing it would have upon the finance and the development of this | country. The Hon. Mr Hawke in his ! speech refored to the two leaders work- : ing so loyally together. That has, I think, been a source of gratification to , the great majority of the people of New i Zealand. It has been most gratifying . to find that the two leaders and most of those associated with them have been . nble to sink all party differences, and i have worked loyally together for the ! good of the Empire and of this country. ; in marked contrast to the attempts that i have sometimes been made by irresponj sible speakers and writers to fan, as ii wove, the smouldering embers of party feeling. I say that the. way the leaders | have worked together has been a source ■ of great satisfaction to the people of the ' country to-day; and I go further than ! the Hon. Mr. Hawke did. I think hr • said lie hoped that the leaders would hr ! able to work together til! the conclusI ion of the war. lam one of those who j feel that the post-war problems of the ; country are so groat and so difficult j that it will he in the very best interests j of all if it is possible to bring about a I coalition of the very best men on all sides of politics in this country, for some timo at least, to grapple with i these problems. If there is to be a i tbree-cornercd fight in this country, in i which the two great parties and the Laj hour party face each other —the present Prime Minister, his very able colleague the Minister of Finance, and the extreme Labour party opposing each other —I say if there is to ho such a threecornered struggle, it will bo very difficult indeed to solve some of the problems; and, as I say, I hope that the very best men will bo able to sink party differences and to work together for the good of the Empire and of the country for at least some time to come. •I want to say that it is a source of •great gratification to every one of us to hear His Exoelency say that he believes there are good reasons for thinking that peace will soon come; but wc also agree that there must he no relaxation on our part—no hanging hack—until every possible shadow of doubt is gone. New Zealand was one of tbe first, though the farthest out to get into the war, and it must be one of the last to get out of it. There must be no backing out. Now that we believe the worst is past we must keep on with our efforts until we are absolutely sure of the positoin and know'that the enemy is completely beaten from a military point of view. When peace comes there is no part of tbe Empire which will have more cause for feeling prouder of the part it has taken in this great struggle than New Zealand. It is wonderful record—tkat of a little country that was unprepared for war, and knew nothing about war in the ordinary sense of tbe term. Wo have been able to raise and equip an army of a hundred and ten thousand men, of whom about one hundred thousand have been sent across tbe seas. Up to the time of this war, so far I have been able to gather from reading, no Empire in the world has been able to send more than 10 per cent, of its face or total population to war. We have reached 10 per cent, although we are tbe remotest outpost of the British Empire. It is a

magnificent record. In this connection let me say.that I felt also proud when I read the report of Brigadier General Anderson in regard to.our Defence Department. The Minister of Defence has no donbt often been misunderstood, and sometimes misrepresented, but the fact remains that he has come through the ordeal of that impartial inquiry with flying colours. Brigadier-General Anderson is able to state that' there has been £40,000.000 spent up to the time of his report, and there Was no suggestion—there was not the shadow of a suggestion—that there has been anything aproaehing fraud, or bribery, or corruption in connection with the expenditure of all this money. It showed that the politics of this country, after all, are not as bad as a few people sometimes think they are, and it proves conclusively that the Government of our

and is clean indeed compared" with some other countries. Brigadier-Gen-eral Anderson may well say, as he did, that in the years that are coming the Minister of Defence may he proud when he thinks of the great work he has accomplished. There is no doubt that he lias made mistakes; there is no doubt that his departmental officers have made mistakes and magnify them, and to overlook the greater and lasting things. And so those who so persistently criticize the. administration of the Defence Department and the great work that has been done in connection with this war should guard against magnifying and misrepresenting the apparent faults or mistakes of the Department. I want to say something in regard to the repatriation and desoldieriziiig of our Army when it comes back. At first tliis may seem a formidable problem, but I am hopeful that it will not prove quite so difficult as it appears. ' Of the one hundred and ten thousand men raised in this country, something | like twenty-five thousand have returned. Unfortunately, fifteen thousand cannot return—they 'have (made the great sacrifice: the “Last Post” has been sounded. That accounts for forty thousand. There are ten thousand still in New Zealand, and we hope that even if they leave our shores it may be possible to recall them at a very early date. But whatever is done in regard to the desoldiering of the army, I am one of those who feel that every effort should be made after the war to obliterate as far as possible any line of demarcation between what may he termed the civil and the military population of our country. We must as far as possible attract thorn back to their civil occupations, and I believe the great majority of them will only bo too glad to take up their former employment. lam not suggesting for one moment that a defence system will not be necessary, as I recognize that for many years to come we will have to maintain a military system, or a modified military svstem, and therefore we cannot do away with the Defence, Department. That, in f: ct, will always be necessary under the conditions in which we are living. I pass on now to another subject. I regret, not altogether because I come from a goldfields district, that there is no reference in the Speech to what is an urgent necessity in the Empire and Dominion, in the direction of increasing the production of gold. I am not 1 l.mlv,ing of the matter from the local piciit of view; Inn you will find, in this and every country that has adopted a gold standard of exchange, the gold reserve is going to bo an important matter. Countries are going to be directly affected if they neglect to appreciate the importance of the question, more so than was the case formally. I believe that here it is necessary that we should as far as possible take steps to increase the gold production. I represent the matter not from the local point of view ; I am not thinking of the West Coast, of Auckland, or of Otago, hut of the National aspect. Do not let us forget that as long as our exports beep up—and I believe they will go on increasing, for wo are increasing tbo imports by a substantial amount now—the position will be satisfactory; but if the time conies when our imports and exports do anything like balance, then our difficulty will appear. Since the outbreak of war, over four years ago, this country lias imported commodities from other lands to the extent, in round figures, of nearly £100,000,000; and that huge sums for goods that com; from other countries must be paid for in gold. Of course, at present our exports are doing a great deal more than that, and there is not the slightest, cause for anxiety regarding the question ; hut, in addition to the amount we have to pay to other countries to cover our imports, we have to send away more millions to meet our interest bill. Fortunately, the lion, the Minister of Finance' has hen able to raise up to -lie present time nearly sufficient money to carry on the war efforts of this country, and he has raised the necessary money here. From that point of view we arc in a good position, because not only will the interest be kept in the country, but the question of the gold reserve will not lie affected one jot. This is a question that one cannot deal with in a few minutes; hut 1 would remind honourable members that many countries that have neglected to build up tlicir reserve. and to increase tlicir gold production have suffered. I do not remember it myself, but it is on record that as late as 1860 the gold reserve in England fell to £11.000,000, and that the rate of exchange between Paris ’ and London went up to 26 per cent. In other words, if England had to import from France at that time £IOO worth of goods, she had to pay £2O 5s exchange for the difference in the value of gold and the Bank of England notes or paper money. Of course, the gold did not change in value—that remained the standard. And that brings~me to another aspect of this question, and that is the necessity of the Mines Department considering if something cannot he done in the way of granting a subsidy upon the gold produced in the Dominion, because if that is not done the present cost of producing gold is not only going to prevent an increase in its production, but is going to bring about a further decline in the annual quantity won. Some of the mines that under the old order of things might have paid reasonably for their working will not pay to-day, on account of the tremendous increased cost of everything connected with mining. I hope there will be a more vigorous progressive policy pursued by the Mines Department. The Department should be more speculative—it is a speculative industry ; the individual has to take risks in it, and so must the Government or the Mines Department. In my opinion, in the past, judging from what I have seen on the West Coast, too much has been spent in prospecting about worked-out goldfields. It is no use giving a man £2O, 'or £‘lo.' or .IMO to fossick-about; there must be a more comprehensive scheme to develop the goldfields and increase gold-production; and it should not be beyond the power of the Mines Department to evolve a forward policin regard to gold-mining. It is a matter, I repeat, of the greatest importance not only for the various districts in which the gold would be won, but also from the. national point of view. The question of the depletion of our for-* ests lias to be dealt with. It is a matter that affects the West Coast, and, in deed, every part of the Dominion. It is worthy of note that many vessels leaving Greymouth to-day take away 1,000,000 or up to 1,250,000 super- {

iicial feet of timber. Each of such , cargoes represents 100 acres or 125 acres of bush, because I think I am < right in saying thfil if you take the i bush—at any rate, on the West Coast — it will not average, taking the good with the bad, more than 10,000 superficial feet per acre. Therefore you can realize what it means when you have vessel after vessel leaving for Australia and other places carrying 100 acres or 130 acres of busli. This is a question, however, that can be well left in the hands of the able leader of the Council, who will be in charge of the matter; and 1 am glad that His Excellency thought it advisable to refer to it in his Speech'. I wish now to say something on that burning question of the cost of living. We all agreed that this is a most difficult and most awful problem; every speaker tells us that, oud every writer is tolling the Government that it should do something to bring down the cost of living. Sir, the more one knows about the subject, and the more one reads about it, the mor:* will one be convinced that, it is one of the greatest- difficulties that any Government or any man can face. If you look back, even the Roman Government in the .Middle Ages with an armed force behind thorn failed to keep prices down. For centuries it has been a difficult problem. The fact is that we must realise that the high prices in New Zealand are not peculiar to this country. 'I here is no country on the earth to-day that is not groaning under the increased cost of commodities. And now could we expect to be otherwise? There are, I suppose .something like fifty or ty millions of men under arms in -liffe vm countries. They are mot producing; they are consuming and destroy ng. All over the world there is a shortage of that which is necesary in connection with the homes and life oi our people. New Zealand is not exceptional in this matter. But I feel surprised that soipothing practical has not been done by those who pretend to give it so much consideration. In New Zealand we lmve a great organisation known as the Federation of La-bour. That Federation lias in the past shown that its organisation is very complete. It has also shown its ability in raising large sums of money—tens of thousands of pounds—for the purpose of keeping idle men while they were fighting to right wrongs, some of them real and some very visionary. If that organisation is capable or raising tens of thousands of pounds to keep men idle, surely it would he possible for them to raise sav, £IOO,OOO, and themselves start a co-operative concern and have a try at reducing tlm cost of living. An Hon. Member.—-You ought to suggest something. The 1-lon. Mr. Michel.—Well, suppose there are twenty thousand men in the unions and employees’ associations of this country, they have only to say, “We are each going to take £5 worth of shares in a co-operative concern.”

They need not part with £5 down, but could contribute at the rate of 10s a month for nine or ton months, and they would thus have raised their £IOO,OOO. If there is so much profiteering and exploiting, surely the formation of a great organisation would he doing a real service. I nin saying this in all sincerity. They would bo doing their class a real service; they would lie doing the men and women of this country generally some good if they succeeded in reducing even to a small extent the cost of living. 1 believe they might possibly

do it. lam not a member of any mei chant’s association. I am a merchant but I am not associated with any con; bine to keep up prices, nor have

been. 1. am speaking quite impartially, and I know the problem is, as 1 have said, a very difficult one: but it is extraordinary to hear men expressing such absurd opinions in regard to the question. How can the Government of New Zealand dictate to France, or America, or any other country what they shall charge for their goods. I may he told that we produce everything we wa'n't in New Zealand. Sir, we do nothing of the kind. We have imported since the war nearly £100,000,000 worth of goods ,and we have had to pay other countries whatever they have asked for those goods. Only a few days ago I came across some shipping documents wliicli showed that there had arrived by tbe “lonic” £0 os. worth of goods. Tt was a ton of carbonate of soda which was bought in England some fifteen or eighteen months ago for £G us. The value of a ton of carbonate of soda to-day in England is £l(2. Now, what do you suppose the freight on that ton of goods from England to Hokitika is at the present time? It is £l7 15s—that is, to Wellington, plus the coastal freight. The ordinary insurance was 4s lOd, and the war insurance £1 4s 10s. The dock charges in London came to £1 3s.

An Hon. Member, —What are you going to sell it at? The Hon. Mr Michel.—l will sell it to the honourable gentleman at 10 per cent, on what it cost. But lam pointing out the difficulties of keeping down the prices, especially of imported goods. How can people expect to buy to-day at pre-war prices ? dt is an absurd contention. Then again, it must be remembered that that shipment I have referred to by the “lonic” was made under the control of the Imperial authorities. It was controlled by tbe British Government.

The Hon. Sir Francis Boll.—True, it was signed by the Controller-General of Shipping. The Hon. Mr. Michel.—Now what can the New Zealand Government do in a matter like that? Then, take some of the other items, which I see the Labour Committee have very properly looked into. Take such an item as baking powder. The complaint is that it lias gone up about 150 per cent. From what l know of the inner working of the trade, I am surprised that we get that commodity at all. The principal ingredient in baking-powder—cream of •tartar—comes from France, and it cannot be bought to-day in France at less than 225 per cent, higher than it was before the war. How is the Government of New Zealand going to step in and control that? Again, you send to America for salmon or.any other - of their products you find they are all up about 200 per cent. How can you prevent the price being raised in New Zealand? The fact is. if you say to these countries, “We object to these prices,” they simply say, “Well, then, do without them.” We have to take them at their value or, as a country, must do without them. I venture to refer to these matters because I am speaking with a knowledge of what I am talking

about. Take the manufactures of New Zealand .They have to import chemicals—caustic soda and other lines —to enable them to manufacture soap, candles, matches, and other goods wherewith to carry on. !•

The Hon. MY. Jones.—AVheatmoal and oatmeal. The Hon. Mr. Michel.—l "ill refer to those too. although 1 do not know so much about them. Take the'eoapmanufactories of this country—l am not interested in one of them—or take tl match-manufactories. People say, “Pooh- the goods are made in New Zealand.” Try and caustic soda in any part of the world to-day and it is up ,000 per cent. How in New Zealand can you 1 control the price of a commodity like that. Take jam and other manufactures in this country. What is the rise in the price of tin? About - nOO per cent. In nine cases out of ten those who buy tinned goods manufactured in New Zealand are paying as much for the tins as for the contends. The Hon. Mr. Aitken. —.More. The Tlon. Mr Michel. —The Hon. Mr. Aitken. says “More,” and probably he is right. It may be beneath the dignity of the Council or a Chamber such as this to discuss such details, but it seems to me we want to “get down to tin tacks.” J. want to get down to bed-rock, and I shall be very glad indeed if any member present will take the other side and show that what I say can be combated. The Hon. Mr. Jones, interjected something about oatmeal. So far as I can understand, as a merchant', not in twenty-five years has there been such a shortage of oats as to-day.

The Hon. Mr. Jones.—AY heat meal, too. The Hon. Mr Michel. —I think, as fates wbeatmcal is concerned, we can realize .there is a shortage of wheat, too. That is exemplified by the fact that the Government of this country

have had to go to another State to obtain wheat. How can we expect to pro. (luce cheap flour and oatmeal ill this country to-day when, we are importing wheat from Victoria at a, high rate? 1 am not directly interested in the wheat <1 nest ion, but my opinion regarding it is that 1 think we are on very dangerous ground indeed. When this war is over we may find, as far as New Zealand is concerned, that wheat is not being grown, and that we may have to depend on some of these oversea States, who not only sometimes, but very frequently, fail in their harvests. We may have to pay famine prices in this country, when the war is over. These are. difficult problems, and the more you think about them the more difficult you find them to deal with. I feel certain of this: that many a householder has not the courage to-day to plant a quarter of a hundredweight of potatoes. Why? He. says, “Oh no. I won’t risk it again. 1 have tried it two or three years running, and they had the blight.” An Hon. Member.—That is only on the West. Coast. The Hon. Mr. Michel, —No; 1 got

some very bad ones indeed from the honourable gentleman's district. There is an absolute shortage, and that is the • whole question. 1 have never known, such a shortage in some of these commodities, and have been in business nearly all my life. If this war continues, I believe the Government might be justified in considering the advisability in regard to four commodities — bread, meat, butter, and cheese—of fixing a lower price and paying the producers out of the Consolidated Fund the difference in the price fixed and the market value. I have no sympathy whatever with the contention . sometimes put forward in a most loose and irresponsible way that the Government of a country lias a right to commandeer below the market price the commodities of that country. There is only one term to apply to such a proceeding. I

is robbery, anct would he dishonest from the national as from the individual point of view. We must not support such a suggestion. But, Mr Speaker, there is one aspect of this case where 1 think ,'tho Government has probably failed—and that, is in not issuing to the people, probably once a week, a Proclamation or a statement in regard to many of these great questions. Tiie people have not been made aware why certain tilings have been done, and why certain things have not been done. The actual position >mhhl not have been stated in any Proclamation, hut sufficient information have been supplied to show the public that that which was being done was necessary. I now

come to the catch-cry about conscripting the wealth of the country. Well, it was a catch-cry that sank verv'deeply into the hearts and minds of the men and women in this country, and addition, it has caused much misconception in respect to the Government of the country. The conscription of wealth of the country would he nothing short of national disaster. Supposing J was worth £30,000, and I have £lO,000 of it in property, about £IO,OOO in stock, £IO,OOO in book debts, and £5,-

000 of an overdraft. I ask this. Wliai part of my £30,000 would you con script ? The Hon Mr. Jones.—Your overdraft of course. The Hon. Mr Michel.—Just so. Clearly, you cannot conscript the wealth of a country. I admit that you can conscript the income of a man, and rightly so if lie lias a big income—that is, you can conscript it up to any amount required for the safety and good government of the State.. You can do that, I say, hut do not talk about conscripting the wealth of a country. As a matter of fact, the Government has conscripted the wealth of this country in a degree ; and in that connection let any honourable gentleman try to get out of the country with a hundred sovereigns. There is} a clear difference between conscription and confiscation, and, as a matter of fact, those who talk about conscription mean confiscation. Last year we had some very vexatious regulations. I felt cross with the Government sometimes about the mail notices and sending of cables. Even as a business man, I did not- real ize how this was necessary, although subsequent events allowed that the Government was right. There was a raider.about, and the Government knew that. If they had issued a statement • or Proclamation assuring the people i that the course taken was necessary fc; reasons of safety, hut that it would not be wise to make thorn public, that would have prevented criticism. As to the cost of living, there has been no attempt made to combat those cries made against the -Government., Seventy-five j

per cent, of tho discontent against the National Government can bo attributed to the. catch-cries that have been raised and solely because the people have not had the other side put before them. I fail to see why something should not be done in the way of setting up a small Department to issue weekly, as it were, leaflets or Proclamations to the people combating those misrepresentations and cries. There are in this country men who are absolutely setting class against class to a dangerous extent, and we must not underrate that influence. We are rather inclined to think that it is all right and that the. majority of the people are sound at heart. So they are. But they want to know the other side of the question. How-ever I feel that I am trespassing upon the indulgence of the Council too much, and si I must conclude as quickly as possible. I want to say that, abnormal as things are in this country, wc have much to be thankful for. We hardly know that wo are at war. It is all very fine to talk about the cost of living, but you have only to go to your theatres or your picture-shows in any part of this country to-day to see whether we have poverty. There is no such thing as poverty in this country to-day—ab-solutely no such thing in the truest sense of the word—and we are thankful for it. I hope that my friend in front, Hon. Mr Paul, will pass that suggestion about the co-operative stores on to the Federation of Labour, because I really make it in perfectly good faith. Ithink that something might be done. I only want to say one other thing. I refer to the cry about wool kings and butter kings. It is another catch-cry. The bulk of the export of wool is from people who send away their five bales, their ten, fifteen, twenty,, twentyfivo or thirty bales, and even their two bales. The great bulk of the export of wool : is from small holders. It is like the attack on a dairy farmer in regard to the cost of living. My honest opinion . is that if butter were produced to-day i under Fcdcration-of-Labour rules and : regulations in regard to wages and hours of work you could sell butter in ; New Zealand for 2s fid or even 3s a : pound. As a matter of fact, the dairy- > farmer is the poorest paid man in New • Zealand to-day. Honourable members ; may sav, “Well ,lie seems to get on ; very well.” It would be ,a strange ■ thing if be did not get on fairly well when be and his wife and sometimes three or four children work from four 1 o’clock in the morning. I know of cases i where families have worked a hundred ‘ hours a week for months at a time. Somebody says, “Why does not the Government take the matter in hair and produce the butter itself?” Tin Lord help this country if the Govern ment try. Those who are continual' crying out for State control must remember that the State cannot alww>1 do better than an individual. Ro--1 member that even in New Zealand we have tried it and failed. I remember that some years year the Government started to produce, as they said, cheap lime. They started lime-kilns in different parts. But they found they could ‘ not produce a ton of lime as cheaply as it was being sold, and they had to shut the lime-kilns up. They had a vessel specially built, called the “Coun- ; tess of Ranfurly.” They were going to give the people .they said, cheap fruit, cheap bananas from the islands. They sent this vessel to the islands to • bring fruit; but the price of bananas never came down. The Government fruit business went bankrupt, and they bad to sell the vessel and get out of the business. The State cannot bring down the cost of living any more than I could do it. I deplore altogether this cry that lias been raised in regard to the cost of living—for political purposes in most instances. I realize that it is a serious problem for the household, but it is one of the prices that we have to pay for being at war. I thank honourable mem hers for the kind attention with which they have listened to me. I support the resolution now before the Council.