PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Hawke's Bay Weekly Times, Volume 2, Issue 77, 22 June 1868, Page 1 (Supplement)

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

;>< , [The followmg itemSiWeTO utiavbiaably omitted from' • por ; lrats^^ .y.|:-''; ; '‘'Thkvsalijecir;#^nq^:rosqmed^ : '. . v The Spjeakee saidthat;, acting on the, oi’der ofresolution to the Government at Wellington, mal, ; as it had; not : the, signature of ; the Speaker. He signed it,and again on the 28th Qptpber forwarded it toVWellington, buttheGeneralGovernmenthad not rer. plieditoit. .-i u ;', -V Mr. Obmond said that lie was doubtful whetherhecquld give any .. .further information, as tlie whole of the correspondence on this< subj ect had already been published. The only reason the, (xencral had for thus setting aside thej wishes ; of the public w'as that the Tele? graph Surreyor had reported in favor of Waipukurau. Major Lambeet, in the course of some rather long, remarks,. said that it might be taken for granted that the General Go-vernment-would not send an incompetent map as telegraph surveyor. In allusion to the remarks of the member for Hampden, he said that the position of the telegraph/could not make much difference to the.inhabitants of a city twenty-five miles distant. He said that he believed that one of the members wished the Government to quietly bear the expense of a second station at Waipawa, and said that the audacity of the idea was monstrous. Mr. Tanneb said that uo fault lay with the.Proviucial. Government in the matter, but he. did not know whether this was the manner in which all : Provincial Governments were treated by the central authority. . - Government Contracts. Major Lambebt, pursuant to notice, moved-*-Tbaton next sittiug day His Honor tlie Superintendent will cause to be laid on the table a return shewing what part of the road made between Waipawa and Waipukurau has been done by contract, and what part not ; and the reason why all. has not been contracted for. -Motioni agreed to. Education. Mr. Wood moved the suspension of standing orders 26 and 27, to enable him to give notice of motion for a committee on the Education Act. ; / s . Mr. Ferard 1 bbjdcted ;to tlie standing rules being perpetually'suspended. The motion was. agreed to, and notice given accordingly. Finance Committee. Mr. Buchanan, after obtaining the suspension of standing orders 26 and 27, moved that certain papers relating to finance should be referred to the Finance Committee.. - ■ The mol ion was agreed to, and the Council adjourned. FRIDAY, JUNE 19. . The. Council met at 3 o’clock. Present, at first, only a quorum. . Several notices of motion having been given, the standing brdefs (11'members having by this time taken their seats) were suspended, so that Saturday might be made a sitting day. 1 t ' The Council then adjourned . accordingly till Saturday at 3 o’clock. SATURDAY, JUNE 20. -The Council met>at 3 o’clock. Present, all the. members except Colonel Whitmore and Mr. DolbcL ; Explanatory. .Mr: Cablyon skid that in the Eterald of the 15th June lie was .reported to have j moved’that abertain message which had ; - -been read'to the'Council should be thrown behind the fire. This was altogether inaccurate. He had certainly 'said that,; cbmirig as the message did from a perfect stranger to the house, it should be thrown : .Kluna'th(j'firo‘s blit he had only given' notice that lib would, on the next' sitting- ; day,' move that the message be not receivbd:". ThibmdtiOn''lapsed through his absence on the foUowing day. He had ~ remark, befieving that the inessage was seht ina spirit of pure irony,, a’ consiimppppsito £o what wab known : : toi 'ilT : islegzap]uc' corn:--, , ha^e^bp^^b^e^i^^ ;^kcpbgxi^atiPn:'. : In lib did not mean ’ mefiabersV r: ,Hei ; (Mr. \ bnljipne|; ; npble-; nbme’ l bf,]R.us-' Hpibe '’reading} the ? letter :of that; - ' ifir/wjfiichfi'Bo; - -- ‘ statedisth’aV;ne'.Jiffi jflai’d. 1 ;seven- ; a^Jlifiigft’ ho J a compliment ! had ; really „ ,^^^^^ has-fallen froiii i! oibr member Auto,: " . . corrofetSih-.' in’; the refforter’s versioii of what ho said on - the same occasion. He certainly made*.

no : motion whatever,- an<i tliereforo could hothavebeenin default'd! hisseconder. Without; repudiating the words a 3 -re-i pqrted, he would take this 1 opportunity of saying that in consequence of liis remarks iiot? having been more 'fully reported; the context' was made to appear in a very different color from what he ever intended. He felt bound; to ignore the right of any stranger toiopcn up,' unofficially, communication' with that ‘Council, even - upon?' however complimentary ani occasion ; and he certainly asked “who was Mr; Russell;” but without suspecting that he could have been understood in any other sense than meaning in what capacity that gentleman was cognizable by the Council. In the fair exercise of what he conceived to be his duty, he had never at any time had the slightest intention of wounding any person’s feelings, or to make remarks in this Council on* any person which he would not make to him personally. The plain fact was that, seeing the temper of the house on the occasion, as has been already explained by the member for Te Aute, he thought by his remarks to get rid ot any uncourteoiis debate on theraattcr. He would add that, having been onfriendly terms with Mr. Russell for the last ten years, it was not likely that- he should ask who he was with a view to be offensive. Ministerial. Mr. M‘Lean said he intended to ask for an adjournment till next sitting day, and would explain his reasons. Tlic resolution which the Council had 'passed on Thursday, the 11th, appointing a Finance committee, had, at first sight, appeared to him not to be conceived in any hostile spirit. His colleagues bad, however, better comprehended the nature of the resolution, and'bad concluded that it was in the highest degree un favorable to the Government. It had riot been expected that any business w r ould be done, to-day, and several members were absent, lie felt it woidd be only just for the Couucil to graut an adjournment to give the Government time •to determine upon the course they had best pursue. He would move for an adjournment till next sitting

Mr. Buchanan would certainly oppose the adjournment,' not only .on present grounds, but as a precedent. At the time the motion was before the house the S uperinteiident frankly admitted that he could see no hostility to the Government' in it, but now be said that at that time be had not fully, comprehended; it, but bad since foirnd some kind of' latent'--mischief in it, that be could ouly avert by means of an adjournment. Whatever mischief there might be concealed in the motion, there was certainly none intended. He could only repeat what he had said at the time he moved it, that whatever blame was connected with it attached to him only. He had not consulted any member on the subject—he had cast the resolution, on the table, as men cast their bread upon the waters,—certain that at some future time it would boar , fruit. He believed not only that this measure would be Useful, but that it was necessary. That reductions were necessary in the Estimates all the members would agree; but he had gathered information relative to the' Estimates of Revenue which had passed under the eye of no member, (out of the Government), but himself. He would draw the attention of the Council to the fact that the Executive had had ample time to consider the motioii without asking for any further adjournment. Due notice was given of the motion, it was supplemented by a further motion referring the Wellington Debt papers and Loan Appropriation Amendment Act to the committee. If the wits of the Executive were wool-gathering at the time this motion was broaght before the Council, they surely Had . ample time for consideration since. Seeing that more than a week had elapsed since then, he. thought it too late to ask for an adjournment, and could only look-upon the request as a little political manoeuvre. The Government should take into consideration also the time the country members had already been detained in town. ; There was no such principle in-' volved in this matter as there was in the case of a responsible ministry. What dignity the members of the Executive Were clothed with ho was quite unable to imagine. The senior member—the member for Poringahau—had repeatedly in-: formed the Council that he was apt ; refor anything; bu.t ; the advice he gave the Superintendent. No doubt this whs a very course ;‘but'if that ;was‘the realpositionoF that member,he had nO right tb array himself with the.importance of a irespbfisible' who; on an adverse jVote, : mustgoput.Ttwasquitetimethat ;the Council look at. the proper po-’ isitibh of 1 tte play’at' jptolmmefit^'':discussibii; rip- the ; iiieariv jtinie, seeing that the -Superintendent yvas? jthe" only person responsible:tb'the Cbiinefl;;ftbeyVshbhld?,^not:!ape ile)ririetures of higher'importance.: ." V ? :Gbvernment at the time of the disastrbus vote to'which-allusion-had; been-maide; ibuh at the time: he had? no idea of the importance of the question. He must acknowledge; howovor, that when he considered

that this vote was passed before the estimates were 1 laid on the table, lie ; found' it must be equal tb a v vbte bf want: of confidence;' ’ rHe. considered;;at ; the time' .hu voted that this matter could .be -much better considered-in the whole house' than! in' a committee. It was not in this Council' as it was. in where the accounts, were so intricate- that no one. who did not possess; the. sources of information open to the ministry could hope to understand them; for here they were not beyond the. .comprehension of. any; members of the bouse. He felt .the difficulty of the question of adjourament;before the busif. ness of the- day was gone into, for upon the answers to some of the; questions he had put upon the paper would depend whether or not .. he felt confidence in the Government. He had voted with them on Thursday because lie: had more confr dence in them than in.any committee. Mr. Osmond said thatthe present was not the time to consider our financial position , as it had not come regularly before the Council. His Honor, had been so fully engaged during the week that lie had been unable to meet the members of the Executive.. Certain members had also, been informed that the Government had no intention of proceeding with any business to-day; and under these circumstances he thought it was only right to adjourn till all the members could be present. This vote which had been passed was of exactly the same nature as the one of last year. To the Executive personally it mattered little; but lie should be sorry to bear bis Honor spoken of as a mau who had retained office after a vote equal to a direct want-of-confidence resolution had been passed by the Council. It would completely alter bis position—he would sink in the estimation of persons in whose esteem he had hitherto stood very high.

Mr. Caklyon said that lie was not present when the vote in question was passed; but had he been he would have given it his entire adherence. The present action of the Government.only showed him more and more the importance of the steps resolved upon. He decidedly objected to the Government, dictating to the Council the form of a vote of confidence. He be-lieved-that if the intention had been to pass a vote of want of confidence the member for the Country District would have done it'in a direct manner. He was not the man to hesitate on such a subject, or attempt to carry- an ob-. jeet by a sidewind. So far from being, as tlie Gov eminent had stated, the course pursued last session, this was totally different. Last session there was a distinct opposition party, and the estimates of the Government were thrown bach to them; this year they w ere merely referred to a finance committee. There was nothing unusual in appointing a finance committee before the estimates were laid on the table —in Wellington it had been done session after session. The position of the Government was similar to that of a man who fears he is in pecuniary difficulties, and refuses to allow his books to be examined, lest they should confirm his suspicions. This was simply a piece of petulancy on the part of the Government, and if they persisted in it, he would bo obliged to withdraw the support lie came prepared to give. Mr. Tank Eli said that he could hot agree that the present action of the Council was similar to, that "of last year, There was then a decided party in opposition to the Government, who were requested by > the Council to take back and rc-consider their own estimates. He had voted with the Government this time because he eonsi-' dered the whole question at issue to be whether the estimates should be considered in the whole Council or in a select committee; and he believed the former course to be the best. When this question was before the Council the member for Porangahau said lie could not complain of the construction of the committee, and the general opinion was that it was not an attempt to coalesce in opposing the Government. He circumstances did not warrant the exceedingly nice view the : Government had taken of the vote of the

Council, as he did not consider that it atall interfered with their dignity. If they ■ still persisted in considering it a want of confidence resolution, let it be deferred till next, sitting day, tliat the Council; might go on with the business now before 'it, There were the two important ques-. tiou of .education and finance,’ and nowthat members had come prepared'to give them their .considerationit was .a pity do: defer them. . I ; : : ■ ; .Mr. M'-Leaw obtained, leave: to. alter! his.motion for adjournment to make it half-; :past ; seven. - Mr. ane said that as one. of the - j members who Voted on the resolution,; he- | regi?etted ; thb;course the" Government had? Ideemed; it/their- duty to adoptjJ JEe was. j sure; that i no .voteupf want of - confidence! ! was intended, nor was it the wishrof'; the ! Couhcilto : embarrass-the Governmentt dnl j any way. ; .; He would -votefortheadjourh-: Tmeht]putjdfcourtesy -to Athe;Government? [and considered that,afterrtlieiunaypidkblef waste < ofitimethatihad -taken place, the- al-/ i terataon in liis HonorYmotionwasagreat improvement. • /• Major Lahbisbi would draw the atteh-

tion of the Council to the. fact that * there < were only /two members: absent ; (Hear,;? v near), but he; supposed it < was considered - that, they,-wouldi support the Government; r He recognised; no Government but the ; ou permtendent, for, the ; Executive long ago thrown all the responsibility from; ' their shoulders, and declarbdthat they .1 ,were meroty ; his assistants; . (Hear' hear); , and they assisted him very ably, no doubt; r ;4:t present they were in the position of a spoilt: child who, not being able to. have . his own waygets into, a pet, and says “ X ' wont! • (Hear, hear.) Ifitwere neees- - sary, he would assure the Councilthatthere. was no want of confidence intended. ' If ■■ there had been, the motion would have been cliallenged; hut nothing of this • kind happened. Nearly : every; member spoke on the subject; a division took place; and it was: not uutil after aweek’s consideration that the Superintendent found anything wrong in it. No doubt duribg . t that.week his Honor had, entertained his ' distinguished guest royally; but the duties ’ ‘ of the Council should have received some of his attention as well as the Governor. He was anxious that this committee ! should sit for tlio purpose of seeing wliat the estimate of revenue; really, was, 1 and - On what grounds it was based, and if; the Government really wished the business to , be got through, they should not throw . obstacles in the way of members. He had no hesitation in saying that when the estimates were merely laid before the Council, most of the members worked in the dark. He would,vote against the adjourament.

Mr. Furard moved as an amendment that the Council adjourn to half-past seven, and that the notices of motion then take precedence of tho orders of the day. Mr. Buchanan asked what good end could be obtained by the adjournment. He would also be glad to hear what course - the Government intended to take. After a whole; week’s consideration, they asked - for three days, and had now moderated . their demands, first to .twenty-four .and them to three hours. He could see.no j valid reason for this delays when the great- . est legislative body in the world'never required more than four-and-twenty hours- r to consider their position. Perhaps they wanted to beat .up members; but, as they had been reminded, there were only two absent, and the Council had often proceeded with .more important business in the absence of a much greater number.. Tlio Government wished it to, appe&r that ‘ their dignity was , sorely .invaded * but in' ; his opinion the dignity of" the Council was being desperately, trifled with—it seemed as if the Government fancied it was made to be kicked. For bis part lie strongly objected to, such treatment'; he woiddgive the adjournment his determined opposition, and go to a division on the subject. Mr. Carlton could see no possible reason for the adjournment. V' Mr. Tannrr would, support, the amendment, as he did not think it unreasonable, lie was, however, sorry that the Government had taken so serious a view ! of. the matter. . • ; ■

The amendment was then put and Aar--ried on a division, Messrs., Buchanan, Carlyon, and Weston voting., against it.'. The Council adjourned to half-past 7.' The Council resumed its . sittings, at-<j-past 7. ' 1 - . Ministerial. Mr. M‘Lean said, that the Government, had asked for an adjournment, with the view of having time for considering what epurse they would pursue under the circumstances which had arisen. 1 Tliey 'had ' since found that some members ; whO voted " for the select committee had not done so with any intention to express a want; of ; confidence in the government. Other ’ members, again, had said pretty plainly, l ; that they had nO confidence in the government; With' the view of testing What the ; majority of the Council really felt, he' would tabic a motion for Tuesday. In J the.meantime he would answer thO ‘qb.es- ; tions on tho notice paper,. but \ would 3 not ; . go on with any government business. . Petitions. ... Mr. Carlton presented a-petition from ; certain - residents at Waipawa,- setting forth that tlie publican’s license fee. there ; was £3O, while it was only £2O at villages; within a distance of four .miles, and praying that a, uniform fee should be ; exacted. —Be,ad ,and received! . ; ; „ ... Mr! ( Brnnedt presented,a petitioiifrbrn! ; 190 -tysidents. in Napier, , setting-forth- that.! ; the site" already decided upon for the new 'Telegpiph ~and Pqst; c^<s%bui|dib^^'a3' / i the most eligible and .conyeiueub that, could^ •be chosep,; Apd praying the' .Councirta express .approval, of .thie' f !siteValready - selected.—Bead and and police, . |of motion given.; , . : ; - , ' Mr.^Lockei.presented^-a petition from forth that the frontage to hpr to wn section had completely been destroyed ;by* the v ;cuttipg l iP‘Opote-“ case into ■ ^ r !' r ! *aiws. r . J - ;Mr. Buchanan, pursuant .to notice, moved —■ . . For a .copy of tho order cither sent, or (if

yet proposed to be sent to Englaiia ; for . fight-house apparatus. ?

—•He said that it was ! fie?' • knowthecost of the proposedHlighthbulse thecosfcoferection and the^description; of light, . the ; spicies of housed and the plans;: if any. The infor- ■ inatioh might be: important, as showing whether theexpensesbbuld not he borne by. Hie Genferal Grovernment. ; Mrw M*Lean said that - this was one of " questions thatwould be more properly discussed when the Loan Appropriation Act qame before the Council. , He might state,; however, -that the Marine Engineer, Wellington, had been instructed to prer pare estimates, and these, with all information,; would be laid; ;upon the table. Coast Lights, no doubt, :were; a General Goyerhment undertaking ; but the cost of harbor: lights fell .in all instances upon • the provincesbenefiting by thesame. ; ' Questions by Mr. Fercvrd. ; -Mfr Febabij put the long: series of questions, ftanding in his name, which, with the answers, must be deferred till our next. •

. Qrntihd Government Expenditwre. Mt.Btjchanan, pursuant to notice, moved-s-That the Superintendent lay before the Council, at the earliest possible moment, a synopsis 6f the entire General Government expenditure in this province, with an expression of opinion of himself and executive, founded on their experience, where and in what degree, reduction can be effected, as invited by the Hon. the Colonial Secretary. “—•He said that reference had been made to this expenditure in the financial statement. The executive were better qualified than private' members to express an °phrion as to where : reduction might be effected. Such an expression of opinion bad already been made by the Superintendent of Auckland. Although lie moved this he did not anticipate that much good would arise from it,- as the General Government was not in the habit of paying much attention- to the representatives of Provincial Councils. Mr. M £ Lean said that a synopsis of the expenditure had been already given by his colleague,. Mr. .Ormond, who had inti-' mated his intention to followit up further, which the ; Government quite intended to do.

Land Pwrchases.

Mr* Btjchanan, pursuant to notice, moved—

For a., return of all lands acquired by purchase from the natives as a provincial estate, under -the authority of the et Loan Appropriation Ordinance,” Sess. 8, No. 4, shewing—

1. The,name of the.block. 2. From whom purchased. 3* Area within the province, and area beyond the boundaries of the province. 4. Price expressed in deeds. 5. Payments in cash, and dates of payment. 6. Expenditure other than payments in money. 7. Amounts still due. 8. Cost of surveys. ‘ . 9. Interest and other undescribed charges. 10. Total cost of each block. 11. Bate per acre.

12. Aggregate outlay for the whole of the ' lands. 13. Quantity of' land sold in each block since its acquisition. 14. Quantity remaining unsold. 15. Amount received on account of each block, with dates of receipts. 16. Aggregate receipts by sales.

—be said that this return was one of some importance, Humour already pointed to, a very, serious loss on one of the largest purchases the Papakura block; and doubtless, if the return was given as asked, ime profits generally would be found to be infinitesimally ; small. He thought that land purchasing, now it was open to individuals, should be at an end on the part of government. On their part it was much more costly, while it laid, them open to imputations.; The return in question would, be of considerable use to the finance committee; and it would guide the Counto the -vote for land purchases under the Loan Appropriation Act; Mr. M‘Lean said that the return asked for would he prepared and laid upon the table. ■■ • .

■ '0:- Bank Overdraft. ■ Buchanan moved. the motion in his name affirming the necessity as" to the legality of supplementing the • revenues accruing by bank overdraft. 1 »’ ••• y .v>

: OEMOND saidtiiat a circular ; letter wtlus effect! h a d; been sent by the; Gene-: ral Government to all the provinces; - Mf. ;.BucHANAN then withdrew the

. Main, Urns of Boad. Mr. Febard, pursuantto notice inoved-r- ---. For areporfc in, detail, by the provincialengineer* of all works proposed to be executed and defrayed put of the portionof tht : he, set aside for main roada 1 »■ "“ e . - “ -k oan Appropriatibn Amendment •Bulf such report to; be presented before the goes'into committee on that bill.

: Mr; Oemond said that' it was never intended to aslc the Council to vote, a lumpsum for this purpose." The details would be laid on the table before the second reading of the bill. Motion agreed; to. „ Ujp-country: Hoads:

\ Mr. W eston, pursuant to notice, moved —

iFor a return jn connection with- the fol- : lowing roads'Waipawa to Waipukurau, bid line and new line; ‘Waipukurau to Pbrangaliau; "Waipukurau toßuatanhvha; "Waipawa to Ruataniwlia. Such return to be for the current financial year, and to 'show-—. V

1. Ampunt spent on each read. 2. Amount estimated as required to complete each road. ’ 3. Number of bridges, cost of each, and whether executed by contract or how, on the said roads. 4. Number of culverts, cost of each, and whether executed by contract or how, on the said roads. 5. Sums paid for timber for bridges, &c. 6. From whom purchased. 7. Price per tree.

Mr. Osmond objected to this return on account of the great trouble and expense it would cause to prepare it, and thought the member asking for it should indicate some particular portion of the roads in question as the ground-work of inquiry. Mr. "Weston denied that the return, confined as it was to one year, would be so expensive, and it would be useful. He could not indicate any particular portions, the fact being that he was requested by telegram to move for this information, and was himself unacquainted with the circumstances.

Mr. Obmond said that, after this admission, the Government would feel justified in opposing the motion. Motion negatived on a division. Petty Sessions. Major Lambert, pursuant to notice, moved—

That his Honor the Superintendent will lay on the table, with as little delay as possible, all or any letters, &c., that have passed between" the General Government and his Honor relative to the resolution passed by this Council, at its last session, requesting courts of petty session being established in certain districts of this province.

Mr. Carlton seconded the motion, and both gentlemen spoke in support of it. Mr. M‘Lean promised. that the information should be laid upon the table.

Resolutions on Education.

Mr. Febabd said that he felt considerable -embarassment in moving the resolutions standing in his name, because he had not had the practical experience of the working of any educational system .which would give the self-confidence so necessary for anyone who would seek to win the confidence of others. However, he had felt bound to offer, a decided opposition to the education bill of the Government, and the Council might fairly expect that he would indicate to them some other feasible scheme. He had first offered his notes to the Government, but the member of the Government who had moved the second reading of the bill, - in suggesting that" the bill be referred to a select committee, had indicated no changes which the Government would propose to make in it. He thought there was no guarantee that a bill prepared by a select committee would be more likely to be accepted by the Council than the one introduced by the Government. He wished the Government had introduced .resolutions which, if accepted by the Council, might have acted as instructions to a select committee. His own resolutions might be unnecessarily long, being in fact a skeleton bill, but he had wished to show the full working of the scheme he proposed. The necessity for a new Educational Act of course arose from the fact that the present resources of the province would no longer furnish funds for educational .purposes, and a rate had become necessary; but he believed that the principal objection to the present education system was that improper and incompetent. persons were appointed schoolmasters, and that the schoolmasters wereinsufficimtlvnaid. Hedidnot think that there was "any unwillingness to continue the aid to denominational schools at present receiving it, on the ground of proselytism orotherwise; or any desire that the attempt to insure the efficiency of the schools by Government inspection should be abandoned. The. Government bill was objectionable because it adopted the practice which had been so great a cause of the difficulties between the General and Provincial Governments, that one body was to have the spending, of the money, whilst a different body had the unpopularity. of ; raising it, that it proposed a uniform rate i throughout the province, the amount raised in each district being spent entirely in that •district. If, therefore, the rate was made sufficiently high to raise funds for the: \ maintenance of schools in.thinly populated; ! districts, the inhabitants of Napier, would? • be taxed to a much greater extent ; than i their own necessities required, the money j- being moreover expended in maintaining a i school which I schools alreedyfpstabfished ih the i place; ;■ : ifotheamount fof:%kte/was; calculated; ac-; ; cording to the * wkitr. of Napier, it would

not provide funds sufficient for the maintenance of schools in outlying districts; The bill was also objectionable because by Itlthe Goyernment abandoned all super,(Vision over the funds raised by them, and: left their control entirely to local boards. The provisions as, to the.local boards send-, ingin accounts and reports on the state of their school, to the ,Superintendent, would be utterly nugatory, as they, would have no sufficient motive to attend to such provisions. It might be that the present system; of appointing masters was objectionable; that a. Superintendent, feeling no special interest in the subject of education, or in the wants of a particular locality might yield to influence and give a schoolmaster’s post to somebody without sufficient assurance of the fitness of.the candidate; but there was equal likelihood with a local board that there might be somebody belonging to the district in misfortune—perhaps generally liked—perhaps having a large family who must be provided for, or owing money to many persons in the district,: an effort is made, the poor devil is provided for, and the .school is ruined. Entire management by a central body necessitated general rules, not sufficiently elastic to suit all cases; and an efficient master might not have the same influence for good or take the same interest as if he had .the support and sympathy of a good local board. On the other hand, though schools entirely under local management would here and there be brought to the highest state of efficiency where individuals in the locality took a keen interest in them, they would, under ordinary circumstances, be subject to all the petty jobbery which used to disgrace parishes and the smaller foundation schools of England ; and there was always the likelihood that managers would only compare their school with itself, and think that what had hitherto been was good enough for them, and. would make no improvements. The true course seemed to be that generally adopted in like cases in the present day—to give extensive powers of local management, but to have a central body to give its advice to the local bodies, to control and keep them to their duties; to gather information respecting improvements in education in other places, and to urge their adoption upon the local managers; A body having the special duty assigned to it to appoint schoolmasters, or to grant certificates of efficiency,, would act with a much greater feeling of responsibility than any person with whom this only formed one amidst a great variety of duties. He had had no time, before preparing his resolutions, to talk the matter over with other members of the Council, or with those who might .be regarded as leading authorities, on the subject by the different religious denominations; but had looked for aid to the Acts of other provinces. It had been' said that the Government Bill was founded on the Nelson system. He knew that that system had been adopted, on the recommendation of a commission which sat some twelve years ago, and gave the matter most careful consideration. It had stood the test of experience, though amendments had been from time to time introduced. The Government Bill differed most materially from the Nelson system. He had had the pleasure of a conversation with a gentleman of recognized ability, who had formerly resided in Nelson,, and held important provincial offices there. That gentleman, on being told that the Government had introduced a bill professedly founded on the Nelson system, but without the central board, remarked, “ Why the central board is a most important part of the system —is a body full of life; Dr. Greenwood takes the greatest possible interest in the subject, and he is a host in himself.” Now that indicated just what was wanted here—that if there was any man of'"ability like Dr. Greenwood, keenly interestedin education, there should be means of utilizing his labours for the general good* and that they should not merely be devoted to the improvement of some particular school in his immediate neighbourhood. It might be thought that he (Mr. Ferard) would have been satisfied to take from the .Nelson Act the missing parts; of "their Sy stem, but .he remembered that another province, Canterbury, had also, more recently,'hada commission on the subject, composed of very able men, under the chairmanship of Mr. Tancred, who was'known .throughout the colony , both, for his great acquirements and for the interest; he took in questions of this character; another, member of the commission was Mr. Bolleston, who had. just been.elected Superintendent by the unanimous,voice of; the people of Canterbury; that commission had not only the advantage of the experience acquired in the pro-!; vince of Nelson; ; but had carefully examined the various systems, in force in. the other provinces ,of N qw.. Zealand, , and in the Australian ’*colonies; and upon j ;the:system adopted in Canterbury, upon; ;their recommendation rather than upon ; tlio Nelson Act, he had based, his resolutions. It had .been a satisfaction to him ! ;to find that in one point in which he, prorV ! posed tediffer from the Canterbury scheme; ! viz., jhy : aid,asatpresent,byway; ioficapitation,money, he was inaccora with! Schools 'Act,’v;for|bt£ jdoubted notthat: v one; of . the ;Canterbury;

commissioners, Mr. Bolleston, had; as assistant secretary for native affairs, a large share in the prepkration of that Act. The Canterbury.- system differed greatly from the kelson system* in' the eonstitu-V tion of the central hoard, In Nelson, this board was composed of representatives ; of the local committees':: in Canterbury,' it consisted of a few persons nominated by and removable by the Superintendent, with the advice of his executive I—responsi-- 1 —responsi--Jble therefore to the executive, and, through theni; to the Council; for their proceedings. He thought the : . Canterbury system preferable to the Nelson;; a small board, ; so appointed, would be composed of persons taking special interest in the subject, ; and . work together with more consistency of purpose, and for more definite ends, and be more careful of the general good of the province, and more zealous in collecting and diffusing information, than a larger ana constantly changing board. Under the Nelson system, it might happen that the best and most reliable member of the board might not be re-elected if he had done anything to offend the committee of liis own locality, as by failing to obtain for them an extra grant or the like. He then proceeded to comment on- the resolutions seriatim.. The uniform rate on every householder, recommended by the second resolution, was not the best but was the simplest and most easily collected; he recommended it as a temporary measure, as it would be very expensive to make a valuation of all the property in the province, for assessment; but such valuation would soon have to be made either by the General Government or the Provincial Council. The plan would have in it a sort of rough‘justice, for, though the rich would pay 'ho more, than the poor, they would probably make no use of the schools for their own children. He observed that an educational rate was about to be made upon property at Canterbury, upon a valuation made for municipal and road purposes. He thought that school fees should be made as high as an ordinary laborer with a family could afford to pay, as it was primarily the duty of parents'to educate their children, and people valued more highly that which they had to pay for, In some*'places the jealousy of religious denominations had excluded ministers of religion from the central board. He thought such a rule, would increase the difficulty of finding competent. persons. Under his plan educational districts would have, to be formed round all the present common schools ; but when a new district was to be formed, or a subdivision of an.old district made, it would depend upon the wishes of. the inhabitants. He thought the subjects which they should insist upon being taught in all schools should be few; to the list in his resolution he should like to see added drawing, as giving an additional, power of expression, so that, as Mr. Buskin had said, the time would come when it would be expected that everybody should be as able to express his ideas with the pencil as with the 4 pen. He should like choral singing added, and military drill if possible. The subject oh which, above all others, a State ought to see that children were properly instructed, was ethics, their duties to their fellow men and their God, thereby rendering them good citizens. Butthese, in Christian lauds, were made to rest for their authority so entirely upon an historical basis, and with the facts of that history theological doctrines were so interwoven with dogmas upon which rival sects differed, that he . feared there was no possibility of so arrang- - ing instruction upon, this point that they could fairly make it compulsory upon all, and they must therefore leave the children upon this point to the instruction of their parents and the ministers of religion. He thought there would be more consistency in the action of a local board if oner half only of its members were changed annually. He should ask the leave of the Council to withdraw the resolution. 25, leaving it to the loeal managers to deters mine that religious instruction should he given; on further consideration, he felt the plan would be mostunschievbus; where religious denominations were nearly balanced, there would be a constant struggle what religious doctrines should oe taught-, - and they might try to force, an efficient master to teach doctrines which he did not himself agree with. Besolution 29 was only inserted under the idea that the zeal of members of some religious denomination might secure a school to a district sooner than they would otherwise have it. In some parts of the country he tliought persons would be willingto give the use of buildings in which a schoolmaster might" teach two or three days in a week, though they could not entirely support; a master. . The system of central Supervision, with management, by locai; bbards, had beehV adopted in most provinces.- 'Some people thought the province not sufficiently; ad- > =vaneed for such a system, but they wbuld be unwilling to say that they were not advanced enough for a system which had; 1 been found to; work at Nelson,not merely in the days of i sleepytimes; oftwelve. y§arstd|pi V' v ; - 1 ibato was adjourned; sittihg: dayi; (Tuesday:), 'Vt y Council then adjourned. ..