PUBLIC MEETING TO RECONSIDER THE FINANCIAL PROPOSALS OF THE GOVERNMENT.

Hawke's Bay Times, Volume 16, Issue 807, 25 July 1870, Page 2

PUBLIC MEETING TO RECONSIDER THE FINANCIAL PROPOSALS OF THE GOVERNMENT.

On Tuesday afternoon last the following placard was posted in the Town; —“The undersigned members of the Provincial Council, believing that the decision taken last night on the financial proposals of the Government does not represent public opinion, hereby convene a meeting this evening, either to confirm or revoke the said decision. —J. Buchanan, P. Sutton, A. Kennedy, J. G. Kinross, J. A’Beane, T. K. Newton, J. Wood, H. S. Tiffen” At the hour named in the heading of the card (7 p.m.) the doors of the Council Chamber were opened, and the hall was almost immediately filled. Mr A’Beane was voted, to the chair. The Chairman said that the members of the Council who had called the meeting did so because they believed the decision arrived at last evening did not represent public opinion. He hoped the speakers would obtain as patient a hearing as those of last wight, and that the meeting would come to a decision unbiassed by party feelings. Mr Sutton said a resolution had just been placed in his hands to put to the meeting, but before doing so he wished to make a few remarks. Last night’s resolution was a disgrace to the community, and

he hoped it would not be allowed to remain on record. The meeting did not seem to know thatf they were passing What was really a grave vote of censure onVtheir representatives; they had actually accused the G-overnment—of which one of their representatives was a member, and to which the other was closely allied—of extravagance, thus casting a serious reflection on them both, and for this eause alone the meeting was in duty bound to rescind it. Their members had shown themselves, worthy of support, and done nothing toj merit this. He moved the following -. j

That the following resolution, passed at a'meeting held here last night, is not in accordance with the views of the public generally, and is hereby revoked :—" That this meeting is of opinion that the .proposals of the Government are extravagant, and that although a moderate loan for the promotion of immigration and the development of the colony (such as the loan of £1,000,000 proposed to be guaranteed by the Home Government) would he advantageous, no engagements of the magnitude proposed by the Government can safely be entertained."

—lf that decision had been come to before the Assembly was in session, it might have been taken as an expression of opinion for - the guidance of our members ; but it could 1 not be so taken now that they were committed to it. Mr Kennedy seconded the resolution. He did so merely with the view to test public opinion, and should be satisfied whichever decision might be come to. Mr Wilkinson objected to the resolution. The meeting could not alter the expressed opinion of another meeting. All they could do would be to express their own opinion ; they certainly could not revoke the decision arrived at by others. [Applause.] Mr Sutton withdrew the words " and is hereby revoked." Mr T. B. HAKDiNa said the reason assigned by the conveners of this meeting for calling it together was that last night's decision did not represent public opinion. He would just point out the circumstances ol the last meeting. It was called by an anonymous placard, not to express approval of the Government proposals, but to consider them and give an unbiassed opinion. Neither party had got up any organization, as was evidenced by the fact that no seconders had been provided j and in the case of the amendment he (Sir H.) had proposed, though many persons showed their approval by their votes, yet some time elapsed before a seconder could be found, owing to a lack of courage to come forward on the part on the meeting. The meeting had been orderly; the arguments pro and con were attentively heard j and if ever an overwhelming verdict was given by a public meeting it was in favor of Mr Wil-on's amendment —noticeably the first time it was put, and still more unmistakeably the second time. The Government party were not satisfied, and this time the .conveners —members of the Provincial Council—told the public what they were wanted for. They were asked to stultify themselves by reversing their deliberate decision. Was ever such an insult offered to a public meeting ? They must take the public of .Napier for idiots, or they would never ask the meeting thus to " write itself down an ass." Very possibly many now present were not at the meeting last night; and had not heard the grounds on which the scheme was condemned.. [Mr H. then criticised the Government proposals at some length; and, as one specimen of the almost universal condemnation they met with from the colonial press, read a short extract from an article in the Auckland Evening News.] The effect on our .credit at home which these proposals would have could scarcely be estimated. We had at great expense sent two Commissioners—Ministers of the Colony—to England, who were ignorant of the intentions of the Government. They had, with great difficulty, negotiated a loan of one million. When this news arrived the credit of the Colony would fall flat, and the holders of New Zealand debentures would one and all endeavor to sell out. Mr Febabd rose, and so great an uproar was raised that he could not obtain a hearing. Some degree of order having at length been restored by the Chairman, Mr Eerard began—-He had not attended last night's meeting, as he had not considered himself sufficiently acquainted with the m jcjct to enter ino a criticismjjupoa it; but he had since read very carefully the statement of the Colonial Treasurer, and had found a great deal ti which he took exception. He saw that the gentleme. whose names appeared on the placard signed it as members of Council; and he considered it only fair to himself to state that he had been requested to add his name, and had declined to do so. [Applause.] His first objection to the scheme was thai the Government had planned enormous undertakings without having gone into any of the necessary preliminary calculations. He came to-night thinking that if the public were asked to rescind a resolution passed afer much discussion by a large majority at a public meeting; at least those who askud them to eat their own words would show them .ome reason for plan. But they had not done this, and they had not had the common decency to wait till a report of the proce dings had been published in the local presf, that those who were absei t might know what was said and done on the occasion. One reason alone had been given for this conduct. We were told that our numbers had committed themselves on the other side in the Assembly, and that we must support them —a gross insult to the community. [Hear, hear.] It was the duty of representatives to ascertain the views of their constituents on important public questions ; and if they have been acting

contrary to those views, to change their tactics on the fact being made known to , them. But that the representatives of the • Province were committed to the scheme i in its present shape he doubted j one of • them, at any rate, considered it too extensive. Let us now look and see how we should.be affected. The proposals for public works were to be submitted by the Provincial Councils to be taken up and guaranteed by the General Government; a,plan which would afford opportunity for a further course of that log-rolling which had been the curse of the Colony. The Goverriinont would look to the place where they could obtain the greatest number of votes, and one day an enormous railway scheme would be guaranteed because the Auckland vote was necessary, and anolh9r day some grand scheme would be inaugurated because the Otago influence must be won over. We were a little community, and would stand a proportionately small chance. Still, we might get a little moaey j but on what terms ? A slight hint was afforded in the financial statement. " In some cases, the Government might take as a collateral security the results of a special tax, or a mortgage over particular properties, such as railways in course of progress, or over rents and tolls." " Special taxa» tion would not be a hardship." [A Voice : Education Tax.] Indeed we should be educated in taxation ere long. We might get our public works undertaken if the votes of our representatives were of sufficient value, or otherwise by paying a special tax. A- special tax, for instance, to carry a railway to Taupo. It might be convenient if some one wanted a sulphur bath. [Applause.] Wehadhalf-a-million of Treasury Bills to meet in the ensuing four years, and we were not shown how this was too be done. A hint, however, seemed to be given in the following words: " After three years, supposing that extraordinary sums are required, will it be a great hardship to increase the Stamp Duties, or to have a House-tax, or an Income-tax, or some tax that will touch that lucky class,; the absentees ? " The public would differ from the Finance Minister on the subject of the hardship of the taxes he had enu merated to make a railway through the centre of the island, where it would be no use to them. The fact was, the sea was the natural highway of New Zealand, and would continue to be so. [No, no, and ipplause.] Half the Stamp Duties raised by the Government were henceforth to be applied to railway purposes, and the ha'.f estimated to be derived during the ensuing year was £40,000; while the total amount received last year from this source was £65,000. Did not this show a contemplated increase in these taxes —for the Einenee Minister surely did not expect the receipts in one year to jump from £65,000 to £BO,OOO. He (Mr E.) did not dispute for a moment that the Colony was quite capable of absorbing £10,000,000 ; but if the Government wished to borrow, why did they not go to work like a commercial company, and procure estimates, as accurate as possible, of the necessary expenditure and probable returns, and calculate whether the proposed undertaking would be likely to yield a reasonable margin of profit ? As it was, to go into the market to borrow money for such crude schemes as those of Mr Vogel, would be enough to frighten off all the capitalists. [No, no.] Again, even if the money was obtained, it would go as borrowed money had always gone when no precaution had been taken to bind the Government as to the manner in which it should be spent. Interests of all kinds would have to be conciliated, and an extravagant host of officials would at once be raised up, to live upon the Colony. At a time of great straits, when the £3,000,000 loan was obtained, instead of its being applied to the urgent needs of the Colony, a cry was at once raised to all the Government officers —"Now's your time to apply for an increase of salary." And so they did. The Government were rushed on all sides by people eager to get all they could out of them; the loan vanished, with nothing to show for it save a short period of apparent prosperity. If this loan were obtained it would no doubt bring great profits and spiritdealers, as well as to the large capitalists, who would realize their property and then clear out of the Colony the great reaction came. [Hear, hear, and dissent.] That would have to be borne by the small capitalist and man without capita 1 , who would be left behind to groan under a gigantic burden of taxation to support ijrand public works from which he would derive no benefit; and which would cripple him so that he could not afford to carry out roads in his own immediate neighborhood. Those who asked the meeting to rescind a resolution passed last evening, on the sole ground that they might not differ from their representatives, had simply insulted them. He moved as an amendment to the motion before the meeting :- That the meeting adjourn to this day week. —Mr Ferard was considerably interrupted in the first part of his speech j but was listened to with great attention during the latter portion. Mr J. Watt rose amid a confusion of applause and hisses. He had much plea sure in seconding the motion. He thought four hours rather short notice to give of a mating of this description. The country members should have had time allowed them to be present, and the country set tiers, who were quite as deeply interested in the matter as the townspeople. He could not but notice that the resolution moved by Mr Sutton was one calculated to cast a grave reflection on the parties present at the last meeting. He did not think that practically it would make much difference whether they carried the resolution or

not, for the meeting might rest assured that even if the Government proposals passed the General Assembly, the Colony would stand a very remote chance of raiding the loan. Mr Buchanan thought it was due to the meeting, as be was one of those members who had called it together, that he should give their reasons for so doing ; and in the first place, on the part of himself and his colleagues, repudiated any intention of offering an insult to the community; and denied that the thought of so doing had ever crossed his mind. He would tell the meeting why the members did not think the decision arrived at was a fair expression of public opinion; this reason had been avoided by the other speakers, but he was not going to avoid it. It was his duty tonight to make the explanation, and he did so without any intention of .casting a reflection upon the gentleman who occupied the chair last night. From the position he occupied —his eyes dazzled by the glare of the lights—no doubt he did not see very clearly. [Laughter and uproar.] At any rate he mistook a considerable majority for a minority, and a feeling somehow sprung up in the meeting—engendered most probably by the national love of fair play revolting against an exhibition of apparent partiality—that the mistake was an intentional one. This, he maintained, was the true reason why the majority on the second occasion was so large. [Laughter.] He was not sorry that this had occurred ; for if the hall was full before, it was fuller now. One of the speakers had objected to four hours' notice to the public as having been too short; but whatever move might have been supposed to be effected by the short notice given, no one could question that that notice had gathered together a large majority of the manhood of Napier. [Cheers and laughter.] It was evident, too, that the speakers to night, if not mirthful themselves, were the source of mirth to the audience. They should remember, though, that the subject had a serious as well as a laughable side. It had for once caused the Napier public to cast off their political apathy, and make the proposals of the Government their topic of conversation in their homes and in their workshops. It was these proposals that they had come this evening to consider; and any other subject that might be brought up would be in the way of mere skirmishing, They had listened to-night to diatribes against the present Ministry, who had been assailed as if they were the sole cause of our present difficulties, and had not to contend with the results of the misdeeds not oidy of themselves, but of their predecessors. He could speak on this subject with a greater degree of impartiality than most people j for it was not very long since he had stood up in the Oddfellows' Hall in of their im mediate predecessors., He had never been a believer in the Fox-M'Lean ministry, but he was now ; he did not believe in the men themselves, but tbat the necessities of the Colony had rendered it essential that the present Ministry should be brought together. He believed still, as he had always done, that for the necessities of the country Mr Stafford was the best man ; but he recognised the impossibili'yof such a thing ever coming to pas?, and did not see the use of persistent adherence to an opinion that could never be carried into effect. Any ministry who brought forward a scheme to relieve the country from its difficulties were fairly entitled to have that scheme weighed and considered according to its merits. No one knew better than himself the failings of public men ; they needed somebody to drag then* misdeeds to light—he had done his share of such work ; but that was a very different thing from denying them the opportunity of giving their schemes for the public benefit a fair trial. He differed from the criticisms they had heard that evening, as they had been directed against the men composing the Government rather than the scheme upon its own merits. The meeting had been scared by figures. No such sum as £10,000,000 was proposed to be borrowed—the utmost amount was £3,000,000. It was quite right that we should consider the question, and support our opinion with the little weight we could bring to bear upon the subject j though it could not be expected to have any influence in the matter. The question was one which would be decided wholly irrespective of the opinion of Napier. [Mr Habding : Why, then, are you so anxious to obtain a favorable vote ?]**■ He would answer that question. His reason was, that of our two representatives, one was a minister himself, and the other—well, something more than a minister [cheers and laughter] j and our decision would be of importance according to the use made of it. Prom the cause he had mentioned, the result of a Napier meeting would carry more weight than that of a meeting of similar magnitude in any other part of the Colony. It was undesirable that the support of the community should be withheld from their members ; but if it was now done it would be done deliberately, and would not be the result of a surprise such as that of last night. He could not account for last night's expression of opinion. Two amend menta to the resolution had been proposed, one by Mr Harding, and the other by Mr Wilson. Of the two he preferred Mr Harding's, and for this reason. The Government proposals had an extensive base; a great scheme of immigration and public works was contemplated, to carry out which large sums of money were requirod, and a small loan would only perpetuate the evils of our present position, without producing any permanent improvement. The increased rates of taxation predicted, such as £l2 per head per annum, were made without any consideration of the fact that every immigrant introduced would

lessen the incidence of taxation on the other members of the community. To carry out these schemes—to introduce iin-j migrants and undertake great public works j —nothing less than the amount the Government estimated would be sufficient j a.large and general expenditure would have to be incurred, which it would be absurd to attempt to limit to a million. Mr Harding's proposition was clear and distinct —that in the present state of the Colony it would be ruinous to incur further debt; and he would ask if that principle were carried into effect if the results would be satisfactory. If the meeting thought i the present position of affairs would be improved by a deadlock, by immigration i being stopped, and no public works being < executed but those of the most urgent ne- ! oessity, they should have given their sup- ( port to the first amendment —that moved i by Mr Harding. Of course the payments < of the public debt would have be stopped, r and then would come that ugly word they had already heard several times—repu- a diation. If some such plan as that pro t posed by the Government was not adopted, this must result. For years we had been t going to the bad at the rate of £150,000 s per annum, and for this he did not blame o the successive ministries, but the system c which had been adopted since 1863. He t had no doubt that a tremor would be felt f emong capitalists when they found that the f large amount of capital we were asking n for, but that was no concern of ours. They would not trouble themselve about our interests so long as they could screw from us cent, per cent, for their money. Neither v need we look after them ; they were a c keen-witted race, perfectly oathable of pro- * tecting themselves ; and we should find we had enough to do to take care of our own interests. We know what's what. [Laugh e ter.] If the scheme only required broach- K ing to meet with rejection in the Home , market, let it be broached and rejected. *' We should only come to a stop just the ' same as if it had never beeu heard of. He u complained of the way in which the scheme t,| had been misrepresented. The amount b was not to be raised in one sum ; but by d annual loans of £850,000; and the utmost amount of interest charged was that on the v first year —£320,000. In two years' time, it was estimated, some considerable return j, would be derived from the works under- j; taken. It had been said that this scheme a would be a breach of faith with the bondholders who had advanced the million ; but this was not true —the loan was not g yet advanced, and the whole matter was f still in a state of doubt and uncertainty ; , the conditions on which the British Go- a vernment gave their guarantee were not r yet known ; but we might infer that, as r they were very anxious to get over the re- ~ bellion now existing, one of these condi- a tions would be that it was to be spent in j the Northern Island. The settlers in the South, who shared the expense of the war, fc in mere equity were entitled to an equal j expenditure; and it was very doubtful that c the present Ministry would accept proffered guarantee —they would far morej likely go into the market on their own ac t count. If it was possible to restore the t position of matters previous to 1863, he g would vote with those who said, borrow e nothing j but this could not be. Were we t then, because borrowed money had been k wilfully wasted in the past, to go on to- ( wards total stagnation and stoppage of the t machine of Government? He trusted , not. He hoped the meeting would pass the ( resolution which had been moved by Mr , Sutton. The words revoking the decision t had been omitted; but if this was passed \ it would be a virtual revocation. The j reason they were asked to reverse their , late decision was, as he had before ex- \ plained, that if they allowed it to stand, t they would do more damage to the Go < vernment than could be done anywhere j else by an equal number of people. He j called upon them at least to pass this, and ( then it could be seen whether they could not pass the resolution they had before rejected, in a form better adapted to the c opinion of the public. t During the concluding portion of these c remarks the attention of the meeting was { entirely diverted to the centre of the room, a where a squabble having taken place, a J "ring" was improvised, formed by chairs *■ pushed against the legs of the audience. c The calls of the Chairman and those in the meeting who supported him failed for some 1 time in producing any effect; but some ' degree of order being at length restored, J Mr Ferard's amendment was put and nega- ' tived by a large majority. ( The resolution was then put and carried, ; amidst great confusion. « Mr Sutton then rose and moved the < following:— ' That, in the opinion of this meeting, the first i [duty of the Government is to take measures for the rescue of the colony from the stagnation that } has followed the lengthened Maori troubles, and the gieat depression ni value of its most important staple products.

—His voice was almost inaudible in the prevailing din; but he was understood to say tiiat the present Government was the first in the Colony to encourage local industries.

Mr H. Hollowat came forward and seconded the motion. [With great exertions, and much expostulation witu the meeting, the Chairman obtained a kind of lull in the general uproar.] Mr Holloway proceeded.—This was the first time he uad addressed a meeting in Napier, though he had felt strongly inclined last evening to reply to Mr Wilson's remarks. On that occasion he had been restrained by feel ings of diffidence, considering that some older resident thau himself should have come forward. He could not now refrain from alluding to those statements. Mr Wilson had said that immediately on tue

money being obtained, there would be « rush and a scramble for it. Wow from Ms own knowledge of the colonists he could dispute that statement. If they had been fools it might be true, but they were not. The Government of this country was in the hands of the people; every man bad it under his eye, through the public press; and if the people allowed the money to be squandered it would be their own fault. They had been accused of incurring lia* bilities, the burden of which would fall on those to come after them ; but anyone who had studied the history of colonization I could see how groundless this assertion was, and must agree with the scheme of the Government. No man with American experience of railways through the wilderness before his eyes, could doubt the success of the Government plan. There was no intention of spending the six millions, or any part of it, in an unproductive manner.

The meeting, at this time, was again in a state of confusion, and neither paying attention to the Chairman or the speaker. Mr T. B. Haeding said he rose only to to put the meeting on its guard. The resolution was only the first clause of the one rejected last night. It had proved too tnucii to be swallowed at one dose, and they would now be asked to take it in thr< e pieces. [This was almost the whole of Mr H.'s remarks that conld be heard by ttie meeting.] He moved, — That the meeting do now adjourn sine die. Mr W. Smith seconded the motion, which wa* negatived, and Mr Sutton's motion carried, a slight pause having ensued in the general uproar while the Chairman put the motion. Mr Sutton moved the following —his explanatory remarks being quite lost in the noise—

That a carefully conducted stream of immigration would tend to reduce average taxation, and further the development of the colony's resources; and, if promoted in couj unction with a system of useful public works, so as to afford employment to the labor to be introduced, until such labor could be absorbed in ordinary pursuits, would be productive of great public benefit.

Mr Wobgan seconded the motion. He was happy to say the object of the meeting had been gained. [Failing to obtain a hearing, he flourished his stick and called for three cheers, but met with no response.] At this stage another disturbance occur* red in the middle of the hall, which occasioned some alarm, many people rushing forward to the clear space close to the platform. After a great amount of scuffling, and loud cries of '■ Ring, ring," another ring was formed, larger than before; but no actual fi-ht took place. The noise all i his time was deafening. Many gentlemen, among whom we noticed Mr Watt and Mr Ferard, left the room* The resolution was carried, no one attempting to offer any comments. In fact, it would have been useless, as no one could make more than a few sentences heard.

Mr Buchanan said nothing now remained to be done bat to lay the crown to the proceedings of the meeting. The resolution ha would now propose was virtually the same as the last clause of the one chj meeting did not pass last night. It would now be seen whether the conveners of the meeting were right or wrong iu their estimate of public opinion. He would now state that whatever blame or credit was attached to the resolutions rested on his shoulders. He had framed them, and now put the last one in the form in which he had originally written it. It had been altered —he thought unwisely before it was submitted to the public yesterday j because other gentlemen had not liked it in its present form ; and he had bowed as usual, to a majority* He now moved, in the full trust of its being carried by an overwhelming majority, the following resolution — That this meeting appreciates the efforts of the Government to further those ends by their financial proposals; and as it is manifest that the capital of the colony must be supplemented from without, they approve the raising of a loan for the purposes named, with such modications as to its amount, and the terms on which it is raised, as may be adequate in reason to satisfy .English bondholders, and the more timorous section of colonists.

Mr Cuff seconded the motion. Unlike his friend who had last spoken, he made no pretensions to oratory, but wished to give the meeting his experience of railways in Canterbury. The railway from Lyttelton to Chrischurch had been erected some years ago at enormous cost, end the receipts, of the two lines now amounted to £75,000 per annum. [A gentleman in the audience inquired—-How does it pay?] It paid so well that the people throughout tlie province were clamoring for more railways. Mr JTerard nad said the sea was the great highway of this country. Would the sea brng us timber from the Fortymile Bush? As for the Commissioners in London, they had no power to make binding arrangements j and were quite unacquainted with the intentions of the Government. There was thus no chance of faith being broken with bondholders, as had been dreaded by some of the speakers. The resolution was then put and carried by a considerable majority. A vote of thanks to the Chairman was proposed, and carried by acclamation, and the meeting terminated about 10 o'clock. Great credit was due to the Chairman for bis untiring eiibrts to keep order, and to procure a fair hearing for all sides. His tdS* was by no means a light one, for never before had a display oi so disreputable a nature been made at a public meeting in JNapier j and we trust, in common with all wiio value the high oharacter hitherto maintained by our community, that it may be long before such a one occurs again.