PROVINCIAL COUNCIL

Hawke's Bay Times, Volume 14, Issue 724, 7 October 1869, Page 3

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL

WEDNESDAY, SEPT. 29, 1869. [The remainder of this day's proceedings continued l from our last.] Mr Rhodes said the member opposite had as usual been happy in his illustrations. Many of his points -were worth nothing, while others contained a little truth. It was not Jiis intention to take up the cudgels for an ex officio Government. The question before the house was not a; .Government one—the appropriations j Jiad each been moved by private members, and he did not suppose the Superintendent had any feeling in the matter. Tf a majority of the Council saw fit to pa*s the motion, veil and good ; if nor, let them reject it. If a gold-field should be discovered in the Province there would be no difficulty in finding the £SOO. As for the repair of the south road, the Provincial Engineer stated that though he had called for a second set of tenders, the lowest exceeded the vote by £SOO. If this was not voted, we should be in this predicament —after three or four months' neglect the crown of the road would be broken through, and the repair would then cost far more than was now asked for. The exact balance of the loan now in the Provincial chest he could nob tell, but he could inform the Council that during the last three months no money had be.en transferred from the loan account except as voted by the Council. What occurred before the late Superintendent's departure for the South he could not say, but the Government would get an exact statement from the Treasurer tomorrow, as they had no desire to conceal the financial s*tate of the Province, which he was happy to nay was not so gloom v as represented by the member for the Country District.

After some remarks from Colonel Lambert, the motion for going into committee was agreed to on a di\ i sion. In committee the following items were agreed to almost without discussion: —

£4OO for repair of Main South Road from Havelock to Southern boundary of Province £SOO reward for discovery of a payable Goldfield within the Province £SOO for opening road to Gold-field should such te discovered

EATI* £CATION ACT.

On the motion of Mr A'Deane this Act was introduced and read a fhst time, the second reading being fixed for next sitting day. The Council then (10.15 p.m.) adjourned to Thursday at 11 am.

THURSDAY, SEPT. 30, 1869. The Council met at 11 a.m. Present —The Speaker, Messrs A'Deane, Lambert, .Rhodes, Carlyon, Ferard, Buchanan, Pardons, Sutton, Weston. PROVINCIAL AUDITOR'S SALARY. Mr Ferard moved— An address to his Excellency the Governor, representing that, inasmuch as the duties of the Provincial Auditor have become considerably lighter, jn consequence of the great diminution in the Provincial revenues, and that the salaries of most Provincial officers have been considerably reduced, tliis Council is of opinion that a salary at the rate of £IOO per annum is sufficient for the Provincial Auditor, and request his Excellency to fix the salary at that rate for the period in which the Provincial Auditor shall be actually discharging the duties of the office, and the salary of the DeputyAuditor at the like rate, for the period during which the duties of Provincial Auditor sli ill be performed by him ; and that a select committee be appoiuted to prepare such address. —He thought, as the matter had been neglected by the late Superintendent, it would he the best plan to bring it directly before the Governor by an address from the Council.

Not finding a seconder, the motion lapsed. WABRANTS, The Speaker acknowledged the receipt from the Provincial Auditor of the warrants for the unauthorised expenditure since 31st May last. The documents were then laid on the table. THE EDUCATION' HATE, Mr Parsons moved— For a return shewing the names of the people *ho have paid the Education Hate recently collected. —His object was to find whether the Collector had been in the habit of doing his work fairly, or treating certain persons v ith favor. Mr Rhodes said the return would J* prepared, and if the Council should be in session when it was ready it *ould he laid on the table*

RENTS AND BOAD LEVIES. Mr Parsons moved— That in the opinion of this Council, immediate steps should be taken to recover the rents and road levies, due by lessees in the Papakura and Hikufoto Blocks. —The object of this motion was pal" pable—in fact it was only a repeti" tion of one passed and disregarded last year At that time the rents and levies were in arrear £6OO, which had now increa.-ed £270 more

Mr Sutton had much pleasure in seconding ihe motion. Last session it was stated that the matter had been placed in the hands of the Provincial Solicitor, but that officer did not appear to have done anything. He observed that in two or three cases persons indebted to the Government in this matter had gone through the Bankruptcy Court, but he couid see at least £SOO which he thought might be easily got at. Colonel Lambert would support the motion. There must have been gross neglect on the part of some person or other. It was quite time that the Council took a firm stand, and insisted upon these things being looked to. Agreed to. COMMON SCHOOL. Mr Rhodes moved— That the Superintendent shall ex officio be requested to attend the Supreme Court when the Napier Common School funds are administered, to represent the interest of the Government of this Province therein. Mr A'Deane seconded the motion. Agreed to. THE PROVINCIAL ACCOUNTS. Mr Ferard moved — To ask his Honor the Superintendent to request the Bank of New Zealand to re-transfer to the Loan Account the sum of £3,862 6s 9d, part of ihe proceeds of the Loan, improperly transferred from the Loan Account to the General Revenue Account of the Province, such transfer having been made with the knowledge by the Bank, that such money was not being devoted to the purposes for which the loan was raised, and in the event of the Bank refusing to do so, to take legal opinion as to the power to compel such re-transfdr.

—lt came out last session that tin* Province had considerably overdrawn its account with the Bank of New Zealand. A large sum on account of the Loan was at the time in the hands of the Bank, but this could not be touched, as the purposes to which it was to be applied were clearly dehned by the Act. This being the case, the Bank induced the late Superintendent, in a weak moment, to sign a warrant transferring the sum of £3,862 6s 9d from the loan account to the ordinary revenue of the Province. It was quite clear that this transaction was an illegal one, and that money being improperly obtained by the Bank, ii was quite in the power of the Council to insist on a i e toanswer. The effect oi this would be that the Province would have the money available, but would be in debt that amount to the Bank. Colonel Lambert seconded the motion.

Mr Ehodes trusted that the Council would not pass such a resolution as the one now before them they would only foolish, in barking where they could uofc bite. They might pass this resolution, but they could not get the Bank to pay it. The present motion was very absurd —brought in, too, at the fagend of a session—after the Council last year had approved of the transfer, and passed a bill to legalise it. Mr Ferard rose to reply. Mr Buchanan : Is the member for the town making his reply? I have, a remark or two to make. No man in the Council feels more strongly than 1 do on the subject of the illegality of this transfer, but I cannot agree with the member for the town. Ido not think the slur cast upon the Bank by that gentleman is a fair one. The l-esponsibi litv of that transaction did not lie at the door of the Bank, but with our late Superintendent. It was the duty of the Manager to protect the interests of his supeiiors ; the debt was a just one, and as the member for the town has said, we shall be none the richer if we pass it. There fore I take this opportunity to move the previous quesrion, which I think is the best way to dispose of the matter.

The previous question being negatived on a division, the question wa* shelved.

SHEEP AND SCAB ACT. On the motion of Mr Tanner this bill was read a first time, and the second reading fixed for next sitting day. FOUTY-MILE BUSH. Mr A'DeANE moved— That this Council, having considered Message No. 6 and accompanying document from his Honor the Superintendent, on'the subject of the purchase of the block of land known as the Torty-raile Bush, resolves: —

That it is highly desirable that the completion of the purchase should be effected, aud the district in question settled. That the recommendation of the Superintendent that the settlement of the Block might be advantageously arranged in England, by the Commisisioners who are about to proceed there on business for the Colony, be adopted. That the Superintendent be requested to communicate with the Commissioners, and arrange the conditions upon which the Block may bn handed over to an English company for settlement, and the Province secured from pecuniary loss by the transaction.

That the Superintendent be further requested to put himself in communication with the General Government, with a view to obtaining the necessary sum to complete the purchase of the block ; the said sum to be accounted an advance, and made a first charge upon the proceeds of the sale of the land.

That the Superintendent is further reques f ed to urge upon the Government that the political importance of the settlement of this district, is sufficient to justify them in making the advance in question, and to impress upon the Commissioners the service they will render to the Colouy should they consent to endeavour to carry ont the proposed negotiation.

The acquisition of this block of land was of great importance, politi cally and commercially, and it was at present offered for sale at a very reasonable figure—a much lower rate than rbe Government could obtain it for if thev did not take advantage of the present opportunity. Colonel Lambert would support the motion. He knew the land well —it contained much valuable timber, and was well adapted for farm set tlements.

Agreed to. LIABILITIES OF THE LATE SUPERINTENDENT

A resolution by Mr A'Deane to relieve the Superintendent of his liabilities under the Provincial Audit Act, was postponed, a* there were not sufficient members present to pass it. EDUCATIONAL GEANT. This bill, on the motion of Mr Rhodes, was read a second time. It was then committed, and reported as amended to the Speaker. The Council then adjourned to 3 p.m. CATTLE TBESPAS3. The Council resumed at 3 p.m., and went into committee on the Cattle Trespass Act, which was reported as amended to tha Speaker. EDUCATIONAL GHANT ACT. This Act was read a third time and passed. AETESIAN WELL. A message from his Honor, recommending that 6d per cask should be charged on all water from the artesian well was read. CATTLE TKESPASS ACT. This Act was read a third time and passed. The Council then adjourned to 7.30 p.m. On resuming at 7.30 p.m., standing order No. 2 was suspended, and Saturday made a sitting day. SLAUGHTEK-lIOUSE BILL. Mr Tanker rose to move the second reading of the Slaughter-house Act. It was to supply a want long jfelt.

Mr Weston rose to order. It was not competent for the member for Te Aute to move the second reading of the Act. The Speaker ruled that the member for Te Aute was in order.

Mr Weston questioned the competence of the Speaker to rale in the matter. [Order.]

Mr Buchanan drew the attention of the Speaker to the fact that the member for Te Ante was in possession of the house.

Mr Tanner hoped he would be allowed to pi oceed without these unseemly interruptions. The old and cumbrous Act of 1867 stood much in need of amendment, and the position of the Inspector needed to be moie clearly defined. There was far too much discretion given to that officer under the present Act, though as far as he (Mr T.) had seen he had always fulfilled his duties in the most fair and disinterested manner. A misinterpretation had been put upon the first clause by many people, and he thought wilfully by his

learned colleague. The fees under the Act were intended to be collect:ed from those who used the slaugh-ter-house, and yet his learned friend had set a man up to sue a company for fees, though they had never used the slaughter-house. He thought the law should be more clearly defined, if only to prevent people making this egregious blunder in future. His learned friend professed the championship of the batchers, but had not succeeded in gaining anything for them—his only object ap peared to be to injure others. His colleague spoke of the monstrous inj'lstice of a company killing stock for sale without paying fees; but how much did they sell 1 Supposing that the Inspector vas to enforce the fees for the proportion of meat they sold, —the leg was a sixth part of a sheep, and they would therefore have to pay one sixth of 3d, or |-d per head. What advantage would this be to the butchers'? It would simply be a tax upon meat. He believed that the fees were too high, and he therefore, proposed to reduce them by one-half.

Some more confusion here arose through Mr Weston attempting to move the adjournment of the house while Mr Tanner was still in possession.

The Speaker ruled the member for "Waimarama out of order, but he appeared to object to the ruling, and continued to,address the Council on his own motion. Order being at length restored, —

Mr Tanner continued: There was nothing in the Act which affected the Boiling-down Company more than any other establishment. The bill was not in favor of any one interest, but was as fair a one as could be drawn. The butchers had been always seeking to have the act amended. They had sought to have the public slaughter house establish ed. Before then they had told him (Mr T.) that they weie certain that foul play was carried on, — that beasts were surreptitiously killed, without chance of discovery—and they had said they were willing to pay any reasonable fee for the protection of a public slaughter-house. Another reason was a sanitary one. Slaughter-houses in towns became so offensive that the public were compelled to make a stir, and for these two reasons the public slaughterhouse was established. The present act placed the butchers at a disadvantage. This proposed alteration would put the town and country butchers on a fair footing. He would alter the absurdly low license fee of 2s 6d to £5 or £lO, and re duce the fee'? by one-half, by which the Government would lose no revenue, and the butchers would save their fees. Under the old Act, again, any person slaughtering cattle without a license is liable to a penalty of £5. Numbers of people in the country who slaughter their own cattle had come literally within this clause, but had not been sued by the Inspector because they had not broken the spirit of the Act. If, under the proposed Act, any boiling-down company, in order to keep its hands employed at the season when it does not pay to boil sheep down, should commence slaughtering sheep for sale, they would, in the first place, have to pay the license fee of £5 or £lO, and be in exactly the ?ame position as other country butchers. In what he had advanced, he thought he might far more fairly claim to be the champion of the butchers than his learned colleague.

Colonel Laxbeut seconded the motion pro forma. Mr Weston objected to the member for Te Aute bringing forward an Act for the direct benetit of a company in which he was largely interested. That company had hitherto evaded the payment of its fees, and he did not consider the fact of a magisterial decision having been given against it any reason why the law should be altered.

Mr Carlyon said that the Speaker had hitherto replied to all his objections tfml he did not know what the Act was about. After a twenty minutes' speech from his colleague on the subject, he must be very well acquainted with it, and must know, on the authority of May, that, hav-

ing a direct pecuniary interest in the matter, he was not competent to sit in his chair. Mr Buchanan said thai according to " May 1 ' the interest must be a direct and pecuniary one. If it was only an indirect interest, like that of a shareholder in a company, it was no disqualification. He then read a precedent from May in support of his remark. The Speaker said that the member for the Country District had expressed his own (the Speaker's) views on the subject. Till the member for Aute rose he did not know a clause of the Bill. Jn his position of Speaker he sought to abnegate every private interest, and the stigma which the member for Waimarama sought to affix to him was one he could not submit to.

An irregular discussion oi the most unseemly and personal character ensued. Colonel Lambert at length drew the attention of the Speakei to the fact that there were strangers in the gallery. The Speaker requested the strangers to withdraw, and the doors were closed.

After Home time the public were re-admitted. The Bill was thrown out on the motion of Mr Carl yon thai it be read this day six months. The Council then adjourned.