GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Hawke's Bay Times, Volume 14, Issue 696, 1 July 1869, Page 2

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

.HOUSE. G£ REPRESENTATIVES.. ' WEDNESDAY, JUNE 9. ' an*. m'lean's AaENoir. ~_ Mr OEMONB'desired to occupybut a very, short J;ime in moving the resolution stands ing in his name ; and he desired, also toavoid saying anything which would invitj. discussion or reply. His object in mo». ing lor these papers was to place fully be. fore honorable members all the circum. stances connected with Mr M'Lean's agenojon the East Coast. It was known byhon members that papers on the subject had already been laid upon the table by thaGovernment—papers which were supposed to set forth the circumstances attendant upon that agency. He (Mr 0 ) would simply say, as a reason for his motion that those papers were very that they were incomplete even in relation to the particular case on which the Govern* ment founded its action for the removal of Mr M'Lean. One of the most important telegrams from Mr M'Lean, in referenceto that action, did not appear amongst the papers as laid upon the table. He felt iu-tified in saving that the whole case as ta Mr M'Lean's agency, and the circurnstances attendant upon it, together with the real History of what led to his removal from it, could not be understood by the House, nor could Mr M'Lean's claims to have that publicity which his ease required be met, unless very much further and detailed information was given to the House. When such information had been supplied, J Mr M'Lean's friends would take an opportunity of asking the House to review the circumstances under which that gentleman had been dealt with as he had been dealt with by the Government. Mr M'Lean might well claim, from his past service* during a long public career, to have the utmofu publicity given to the circurnstan. ces under which his services were so sum. inarily dispensed with, in a manner which must be allowed on all sides to have conveyed a severe reproof—as severe a reproof and condemnation as it was possible for the Government to pass on any officer holdino a position uncer them. It might further be said that the reproof and condemnation were convoyed in a manner which was at any rate unusual, even in the case of the most subordinate officers; for Mr M'Lean reeeivod the information that his services were dispensed with in the particular mode in winch the Government thought proper to take their action, simply through a paragraph in a local newspaper, and that intelligence came to bim days before any official information on the subject of his. removal was communicated to him. No opportunity was afforded to Mr M'Lean —as he (Mr O.) believ. d would have been usual in the exercise of ordinary official courtesy —and which was due to him, to have withdrawn from the position he occupied. Those were, very briefly stated, the grounds on which Mr M"Lean and his friends desired to have publicity given to the whole circumstances connected with the agency. Mr M'Lean thought, andhij f iends thought, that he had a fair claim upon the House and upon the Colony tohave all the circumstances of his case reviewed both by the House and the Colony;, and that review was what was really sought. Hd (Mr O.) confessed that the papers for which he asked would certainly he of some length, but he did not know how otherwise lie could ask for the necessary papers than by asking for the whole correspondence;, and it was certainly not his intention to ask for a di ection of the House that there should be printed a mass of papers, a great, many of which would have no bearing whatever upon the case. He had prepared a list of those papers which appeared to him to bear more <*r less upon the general question of the action of the Government in connexion with Mr M'Lean's agency;, and what he propos-d was to hand that list to the Government as a list of the papers which Mr M'Lean, and his friends, on his part, desired should be published.. Lt* that found to be in any way hi* complete, or if there weie others which the Govern ment desired them to add, should be glad to see them added. The endeavor of himself and those who acted with him in this matter had been not to omit anything which told upon, the side of. Mr M'Lean. Motion made, and question proposed:: "That the whoio correspondence relating. to Mr M'Lean's agency upon the East Coast be printed and laid upon the table of this House."— (Mr Ormond.) Mr Stafford said that the Government would most willingly l+y before the Houses any papers which could niFord information, as to Mr M'Lean's agency, or their actioa in relation to it. He confessed that Mhad not understood the motion of thehon.. 1 member for Clive when he first saw it upon ihe paper, because, as far as he was aware,, every document connected Willi the removal, of Mr M'Lean from his agency had alreaJ/ been laid upon the table. It was not until he had heard the explanation now given bf the honorable member that he understood, that what the honorable member for Clif* meatlt was the whole of the between Mr M'Lean, as agent, and thej Government —that was to say, the ordi--1 nary correspondence which took place wj tweeu the Government and one of ita" oin*cers acting at a distance from the seat ok Government. Any portion of that correi'l [ pondence which the honorable meuibef ' could indicate, or anything that bore upok i the subject, the Government would b* 'most happy to Bupply. He gathered froia •the honorable member for Clive tliat tiß gentleman missed from the papers alreid| I on the table, an important telegram M

«f r jl'Leaiir While he (Mr S.) wa9 not raparfid to dispute the accuracy of the honorable member, he must say that he lad selected all that bore upon the question' He himself selected the papers which ui been laid on the table, and he thought that lie na, cl selected all that bore upon the fl uestion. He certainly was not aware that Lb telegram relating to the cause of Mr removal had beea omitted ; but l 8 would repeat, that if there had been an .fission, the honorable member would indicate the telegram to which he referred it should be at once added to the papers „ n the table. The honorable gentleman ]]ad prefaced his remarks by saying that he did not wish to imoort, on the present occasion, any controversial matter, and, as , whole, the honorable gentleman had lept to that wish ; but at the same time the honorable gentleman had—not iraproperly, as bearing upon the case, it must be admitted —made assertions which it was incumbent on the Government at once to meet. He expressly referred to what the honorable gentleman had said as to the manner of Mr M'Lean's removal. That ffu s a fair matter of opinion and controversy, and he was lnopy to have this early opportunity afforded to him of removing ( tlia impression which, very erroneously, lad got into circulation—that there was ,tuJied discourtesy .on the part of the Government in the matter of Mr M'Lean's removal. Whatever differences of opinion might, unfortunately and painfully, have existed, he trusted that the House would give the Government credit for a recognition of what was due to one of its officers holding the important position which Mr Jl'Lean had held, and still held in the Colony, to prevent the possibilitv of their being guilty of anything like studied discourtesy, even if, unintentionally, they lad been guilty of any discourtesy at all. llthere was discourtesy—and he must admit that, in fact, the action taken was capable of being so interpreted—it was certainly beyond the control and contrary toihe intention of the Government. The (acts wore these : —The Government had, for four or five days, come to an unniistakeable decision that there was such a painful conflict of opinion between thenilelves and Mr M'Lean, as their agent, as to the action to be taken with regard to an important seciion of the natives, and as bearing upon the whole questron of the position of the Government—not to the present Government j not to any persons ; but to the Government of the Colony as conducted in her Maj-'sty's name —that they could not see their way to continue lir M'Lean, with any benefit to the public service, iu the position of a General Go Temuient agent. They came to that decision with very great pain and very great reluctance. Hut, with two evils before Ilium, the Government believed that the lesser evil was, that those who were abso lately and alone responsible to the country for the conduct of the war, should be ablolutely unfettered in so far as related to any external influence that might be brought to bear by any person holding a position such as that which Mr M'Lean occupied as an agent of the Government But the Government delayed making luowu the decision to which they had come; it was withheld for four days, certainly and he thought he was not exceeding the limits of fact when he said that it was withheld for six days. They expressly delayed making that decision known out of consideration tor Mr M'Lean, because there happened to be no opportunity ot' communi caiing with Mr M'Lean. The Ahuriri—not a Government steamer, not a boat mbsilised or in any way under the control of the Government—was advertised to leave for Napier on the 19; h of March, and finally on the 20th. For the mail by that iteatrier a letter was wricten to Mr M'Lean It formed part of the correspondence already on the table: and he thought it would be found that its date was the 18th. It happened— there was no arrangement on the part of the Government in the mutter—that a Gazette was to be bought out on the same day, and he sent I() the Gazette a notice of the action which the Government had taken as to Mr M'Lean. Se did that because of what had taken place on a previous occasion, when Mr H'hean said that he had ceased to be Government Agent although up to the lime when "w honorable gentleman himself made 'hat statement in the House the Govern merit were not at all aware that ho Apposed himself so to have ceased to to their agent. The Government felt, Inert-fore, tnat there must be no mistake ""this occasion as to the position of one *»o hud acted with such largo powers, a nd who might implicate the Government thereby in many ways. Therefore it was 'hat he (Mr Stafford) instructed thai 'he notice should be inserted in the Gazette, believing, as he had a right jj> believe, that Mr M'Lean would Qave received the official communithat had been directed to him. ~ ut it so happened that, after the letter N been posted, it occurred—not upon Ca "Bultatiou with the Government, and wholly without their knowledge—that the Ahuriri did not sail on the first day lor *hich it had been advertized that the mails 'or her would be made up. The issue of "le Gazette, however, made public the D °tificatiou of Mr M'Lean's removal; and tn e of those numerous correspondents *ho existed in connexion with public journals in JN'ew Zealand, seeing this imP ot tant piece of information in the Gazette, it to Napier. It thus reached papier, not days, as the honorable meintor for Chve had said—for the time of the Delivery of the letter and the date of tne Ingram could be proved—but some 30 *>ura before the official letter was placed f to K'Lean : s hands. That such had m the result was, he thought he ha 4

s hown, certainly not one which the Government desirt-d, and not one which the)' could have avoided. If he had been in any way made aware that the Aburiri wa? not to sail as announepd, he would not have sent to the printer, until the next G-azette, the notice which was published as he had stated. He trusted that he had placed clearly before the House that there was no intention of any discourtesy, much less of studied discourtesy, to Mr M'Lean on the part of the Government in the manner of Mr M'Lean's removal. With the belief which the Government mos» conscientiously entertained, that Mrj M'Lean and themselves could not pull together, they felt that it was their abs lute duty to intimate that fact to him ; and that, with a view to the interests of all parties concerned, as well as to the public service, it would have been discreditable to the Government had they token any other course than that which they took tie would only repeat that any papers connected with the matter which had not already been produced, but which Mr M'L»an thought it was for the good of the public service should be produced, would be laid on the table without the least objection on the part of the Government. Mr Dillon Bsll regretted to have heard the statement which the honorable gentleman at the head of the Government had just made, because ho was in very great Hopes that the Government would have availed themselves of the earliest opportunity of making a statement which would not merely have been satisfactory to the personal friends of Mr M'Lean, but which would have given some satisfaction to the country generally, as to the manner in which the Government had exercised their undoubted right of removing Mr M'Lean from the position which he held. Whether the course taken by the Government was desirable or otherwise, he was not goiny to say; nor was he going to question the perfect right of the Government to dispense with the services of Mr M'Lean ; and with respect to the circumstances under which those services had been dis pensed with, he for one desired to express no judgment at all. He did not know that honorable members would be called upon to exercise any judgment or give any opinion on the matter, before the Government had any opportunity of making an explanation to the House. The explana ' tion which the honorable gentleman had just given set med to him to be very uufor tunate, because, according to his own showing, nothing wuuld have been easiei than for the Government to have availed themselves of the telegraphic communication which they had at their command, and informed M'Lean of his dismissal, instead of leaving it to the charge of thos to whom the honorable gentleman had referred, of conveying the information to that gentleman. Mr Stafford : We did not kuow that the telegram had been sent. Mr Hillon Bell was not referring to that, or that the Government had any knowledge of the telegraphic comtnunicttion having been sent by others. What he considered as the unfortunate part of the explanation was that the honorable member at the head of the Government had not been able to send the telegraphic communication immediately to MrM'Lean, Surely if any one was entitled to the earliest intimation that could possibly be ijiven, it was Mr M'Lean himself; and if there existed any means by which that information could have conveyed by any other channel that the Post Oillce and an unsubsidized steampr, surely the Go vernment should have availed themselves of those means. The Government might surely have availed themselves of the speedy means of communication open to every man, in courtesy to a gentleman who had undoubtedly rendered great ser: vice to the country, informing him ol whatever might be the crime which had justified his removal in the present instance. It was not in reference to the feelings of Mr M'Lean that he (Mr Dil lon Bell) addressed himself, or that Inexpressed the regret that he did, but be cause there did exist at the time a very strong feeling of pain throughout the country, he believed, at the removal from the public service of a man like Mi' M'Lean, without any reason being given by the Government for adopting thai coui'se. The country was watching with the deepest interest the course of events, and had its attention and interest particu iarly excited with respect to events on the East Coast. For his own part, looking as lis did to the great amount of confidence which had been reposed in Mi' M'Lean, and to the fact that there had been a renewed connexion between the Government and Mr M'Lean, who had the control of affairs on the Last Coast entrusted to him since last session—iejuicing as he did on that account, that there had been that connexion established auain between the Government and Air M'Lean, he locked upon it as very unf'ortu mte thing lor the country that the Government should have allowed the country to be informed of the sudden removal uf Mr M'Lean from an office; of such a confidential character and of such grea importance, without any intimation b iuy. given to him, or the slightest intimation of the cause ; and that he should be dismissed under such circumstances couiu not be considered as otherwise than dis graceful. He (Mr Dillon Bell) had u great deal to do with Government matters, and he must say that he did not remember any instance in which any officer of any standing, holding an office of any import ance, had ever been removed in such a manner, unless the step was ju s t.fied by criminality in his conduct, as was done in the present case by "a'short notice in the Gtowtte, which informed tlie country of

the removal of Mr M'Lean. Ho must again express bis regret that the explanation of the honorable gentleman was unsatisfactory, by reason of no effort having been made on the part of the Government to inform Mr M'Lean by telegraph of his removal in any other way than by the curt notice of the fact published in the Gazette—a man who was universally ti listed and esteemed, and whose services were held to have been so valuable to the country—that a more courteous way had not been taken of intimating to him the fact of his sudden removal from the public service. Mr Oemond, in reply, said he had not desired to make any further observations that he had done when bringing forward the motion The Hon. the Colonial Secretary had however stated that, in the preparation of details before the House, care had been taken to publish all that bore especially upon the subject. There was one telegram, having particular reference to the immediate cause upon which Ministers had withdrawn the agency from Mr M'Lean, viz , the case of Ropata, which had not been published, and which showed how very incomplete the papers 'aid on the table were. It did not appear in the published papers, and he would read it to the House :—-" Napier, 10th ■ March, 1869. —I have received no reply to telegram of this morning. Kopata pressing for reply, and throwing himself on me for advice. I could not in the present state of the East Coast find it consistent with my view of my public duty to advise his going to West Coast, and have told him so. —Donald M'Lean. To Hon Defence Minister," Every one would admit that to be a very important paper bearing upon the case, and that paper had been entirely left out of the correspon denco. He could not avoid saying that the explanation given by the Hon. the 1 Colonial Secretary, that ho had beon actuated by every desire to avoid discourtesy to Mr M'Lean, although it would be received in the spirit in which it was given, yet that the course pursued by Minisei\•it the time bore no evidence of such feelings being entertained towards that lion, member. In the first place, as the lion, member for Mataura had said, nothing could have been easier than for the Go vernment to have intimated to Mr M'Lean, through the telegraph, that they were about to act towards him in the maimer they had done. He would not repeat thai it was due to Mr M'Lean to have given hhn an opportunity of resigning his con iiesion with the Government. It might not have been days before the receipt of the official dismissal that Mr M'Lean had become aware through the press of such action, but at any rate it was known and current at Napier, for some time before he received official intimation thereof, that he had ceased to be the Agent of the Go vernment, and the report was founded o:i information said to have been extracted from the Government Gazette, although the Government were then, and had been before and afterwards, in communication with bin. So thoroughly was that the case that there wis in the correspondence le would now hand to the Government, telegrams which hid passed between Mr M Lean and the Hon. the Defence Minisrer after the time the former was gazetted uut of office. As regards the alleged dis courtesy of the mode of dismissal, tie (Mr Ormond) did not recollect whether the letter to Mr M'Lean, intimating the withdrawal of the agency from him, had been published or not. There was one statement in that letter alone, if nothing else had been stated regarding it, which was a full and sufficient cause why Mr M : Lean and his friends shoul I have the matter made public—why it was his duty and their duty to have the case made as public as possible —supposing the facts of the case had been as the honorable the Colodial Secretary had stated—that there were unfortunate differences between M" M'Lean and the Government, which, for the good of the public service, rendered it no longer desirable that that connexion should exist between him and the Government —if that had simply been the case, and if tee Government hid intinaled it to him, Mr M'Lean would have had no cause ro have brought the question before the House, nor would his friends have any necessity for dolus so; but in the letter which informed Mr M Lean that his services were dispensed with, the following remarks occurred ; —"The part your Honor has thought fit to take, notwithstanding the earnest remonstrances of the Govern ineut, m advising the chief Ropata Waiiawaha and a party of natives who had joined the Armed Constabul-iry, to break their engagement after t'ney had been sworn in, and had ac ually sailed in the Colonial steamer St. Kiida, to join the forces under Colonel Whitmore, is, however, so vicious an example in itself, and xhibits such an irreconcilable difference between yourself and the Government as o the import of such terms as assistance and and to t.tie proper mode of dealing with the Maori population, tli it the Government are. compiled to cancel Mr Richmond's memorandum of the 12th October last, and to withdraw the autho .-ity you have hitherto held as their agent." lie would state that the words in which the withdrawal of the agency was conveyed woald be found to be, when the correspondence was before the House, entirely unjustifiable, and not according to fact—that no such action had been taken by Mr M'Lean as was intimated in that letter. Considering the action of the Government from that point of view, nothing remained for Mr M'Lean or his friends than to take the course which had been adapted. He would follow the course suggested by the Hon. the Colonial Secretary, and Hand the papers desired to be published to tlie oo-

vemmenfc. There were some papers of which they had copies, but had' not considered themselves justified in publishing without reference to Ministers—they were telegrams which had parsed between Min isters and which had been sent through Mr M'Lem. They considered those telegrams to have a very material bearing upon the whole ease, as would be seen when they were laid upon the table, and therefore desired their publication. He might say that although the case of Kopata wa9 nominally the termination of the com munications between Mr M'Lean and the Government, that matters had been tend ing to that end for a very long time before that period. The papers he had referred to they had copies of, but they did no' consider it right, without the consent of the Government, to make them public, seeing that they were, he supposed, the property of the Government. He would hand the papers he had selected for publi cation to the honorable gentleman: so far as he knew they contained the whole case on both sides, bearing upon the withdrawal of Mr M'Leau's agency. Motion agreed to.