PROVINCIAL COUNCIL
THURSDAY, MAY 20, 1859. The Speaker took the chair at 3 45 m Present, —All the members jj XC ept Col. Whitmore, Mr Wood, and Mr Ormond. The minutes were read and confirmed. BEPORT OF FINANCE COMMITTEE. Ur Buchanan asked leave to move that the report of the Finance Committee, which took the place of the. ordinary financial statement of the (government, should be printed. It waS desirable that this report should be in the hands of members before proceeding with the financial business ofthesesL-ion. Mr M'Lean said that there would be considerable difficulty and delay jf the Council had to wait till the document was printed. It had already been read to the Council, and all members who had been on the Finance Committee were perfectly conversant with its contents. After some little discussion leave was granted, and the .Report ordered to be printed HAMPDEN ROAD. Mr A'Deane asked the Superintendent — Whether the scarcity of labor was the only reason for deferring the necessary works on the road alluded to by the Provincial Engineer in "bis report, as " Waipawa to Hampden." —He felt it his duty to bring this matter before the Council. His conHtituents felt aggrieved at the 'way their district was neglected, and for months past there would have been no difficulty in obtaining labor. Mr M'Lean said that the sole cause of delay had been the scarcity of laboi'. Tenders, however, were now out, and the work would be at once proceeded with. COMPULSORY LAND TAKING ACT. Mr M'Lean, in the absence of Mr Ormond, moved— The adoption of standing rules and orders for regulating proceedings on Bills authorising the taking of land compulsorily under the Provincial Laud Taking Act, 1860. —Considerable difficulty had been experienced in this Province through the absence of rules regulating the compulsory taking of lands. The subject was a very difficult one, and the regulations adopted by the several Provinces had been disallowed so often that it was difficult to get a piofe3sional man to undertake the task of drawing them up. Of those which had been assented to, however, the seiies adopted by the Province of Auckland were considered the best, as well as being the most concise, and'the Government had preferred adopting regulations which had already been assented to, than drawing up fresh ones, which might very likely be disallowed. Modifications might be made in committee. Mr Ferard objected to considering these resolutions so soon after they were in the hands of members. The circumstances of the Province of Auckland were so different from ours as to render their rules inapplicable and incomplete as regarded this Province, and he had not sufficient confidence in. the legislation of tmy Provincial Government to accept their measures without very serious consideration, especially in a case of this kind, where private interests were so likely to be interfered with. The House went into committee on the proposed standing orders; the Chairman reported progress to the Speaker, and obtained leave to sit again to-morrow. WAYS AND MEANS. Mr M'Lean, in the absence of Mr Ormond, moved--That the Council resolve itself into a Committee of Ways and Means to consider the estimated revenue for the year ecding 30th June, 1870. —The sheet of estimated revenue and the report of the finance committee being now on the {able, were fully open to the inspection of members. Mr Buchanan asked if it wa* proposed to make the usual financial statement. Mr M'Lean said that the Government did not intend tollowing the usual course in that respect this
'session; the report of the Finance ! Committee being considered equivalent to a financial statement. Mi Buchanan thought the statement being in the form of a document was preferable, to the usual course, as it was difficult for the members to cany the figures in their heads. Mr M'Lean moved that Mr A'Deane be appointed Chairman of Committees, pro tern. Mr A'Deane 1 nought he had done his full share of work on the Sheep and Scab Bill, which he thought would be very uninteresting matter for a town resident; but he thought the gentleman who held that position should take some part of the duties. He was, however, in the hands of the Council. The motion was agreed to, and Mr A'Deane took the chair. After going formally into Committee of Supply, the Council went into Committee of Ways and Means. Mr Buchanan thought that before going further the members should have the report of the finance committee printed and laid before them. He would therefore move—■ That the Chairman report progress and ask leave to sit again to-morrow. This being agreed to, the Committee was adjourned. MR BODDINGTON'S SURETIES. Mr Carlyon moved— That the Provincial Solicitor be instructed by the Superintendent to enforce the judgment of the Supreme Court in the action of the Superintendent against Edward Boddington and his sureties. —He wished the Council to reconsider the course they had taken in this case. It was not right or decent to take a matter like this out of the hands of the- Finance Committee, and he could say that if it had been fairly and honestly brought before that committee the result would have been very different. !No honest or useful purpose was served by di verting this sum from their hands, and in so doing the Council had acted towards them in a most disrespectful manner. If such things as these were to occur he would decline to serve any longer on that committee, for as an independent member of the Council he objected to be made a tool of in this maimer. The member for Clive in his motion said this was not to be taken as a precedent —a sure sign that there was something very wrong in the master. The affair was one which needed probing to the bottom, and he would just trace its course through the Council. The original motion was to reduce the liability to £IOO. To this an amendment was made to get lid of the whole. This being rejected by the Council, an attempt was made to reduce it to £50 —and in this he regretted to say his worthy colleague was a participator, actually suggesting that it should be reduced to £5. From this he supposed it would have come to nothing, had it not been for independent members in the Council. Mr A'Deane, although he disapproved of re-opening the question, felt bound, fot the sake of consistency, to second the motion. Mr Tanner did not think the motion would have found a seconder. His colleague had spoken on this subject in his usual reckless manner ; but it requiied very slight reference. A very little expenditure of common sense would tell any member of the Council that to consider petitions was no part of the duties of a finance committee. It would have shown a better feeling on the part of the member for Hampden had he allowed the matcer to rest instead of seconding the motion; but he hoped that his colleague would, by withdrawing his motion, for once perform an act of grace —if it were possible for him to do so. Lieut.-Col. Lambert called the attention of the Speaker to the fact that it was five o'clock, and the orders of the day were proceeded with. After some committee business, the Council adjourned till next sitting day.
FRIDAY, MAY 21. 1869. The Council met at 3 p.m. Present, —All the members except Colonel Whitmore. The minutes of the last meeting were read and confirmed,
PAPERS. Mr Oruond laid on the table the following papers : Return showing blocks of laud to be disposed of, under the " Hawke's Bay Waste Land Regulations Amendment Act, 1865," distinguishing and suitable for special settlement, &c. Return of Reserves let by the Provincial Government upon which the rent is yet unpaid, showing in each case the description of the land and the name of the lessee. Education. Rates account current Return. Educational Reserves account current Return. Mr M'Lean laid on tae table the following papers : Inspector of Schools' Report. Return of expenses incurred in fencing and planting the Reserve near the Athenaeum. RENT AND ROAD LEVIES. Mr Sutton moved— That this Council is of opinion that his Honor the Superintendent should instruct the Provincial Solicitor to recover the several sums due to the Government on account of rent and road levies to March 31,f869, and to take steps for the recovery of the property in cases where the lessee has become insolvent. Agreed to. PAPAKURA ROAD. Mr Parsons asked his Honor the Superintendent;— It any steps are intended to be taken to widen the road through the Papakura Block, opposite Mr Cooper's paddock.
His Honor, in reply, stated that steps had been taken to get a site of land for the purpose, but the Provincial Engineer was of opinion that the present road would be washed away. This was a question that would come under the Hawke's Bay Rivers Act, but the Provincial Engineer would be instructed to do what he could.
IMMIGRANTS PROMISSORY NOTES. Mr Ferard moved— That this Council id of opinion that it is undesirable that the power of granting additional time i for the payment of promissory notes given iu respect of assisted passages to immigrants, should rest with persons holding political offices; and that, inasmuch as the power which the " Resident Magistrate's Act, 1867," has entrusted to the Court, of prescribing such terms and conditions as to the time and mode of satisfying a judgment as to it shall seem just and reasonable, is a sufficient safeguard against oppressive proceedings, all notes when overdue ought to be forthwith handed over to the Provincial Solicitor, with instructions to take immediate legal proceedings to enforce payment thereof, and to take out execution upon judgments recovered so soon as the time appointed by the Court for payment thereof shall have expired ; and that, with respect to promissory notes now overdue, such proceedings should be commenced if the same be not paid on or before the 31st day of May instant. Mr Parsons seconded the motion. Mr Ormond said that this was a very large question, and the motion, if carried, would entail upon the provincial authorities the duty of taking proceedings to recover somethin? like £9,000. At the outset he fully admitted the principle ol the motion —that the onus of collection should not rest with a political bodv, and it was this troublesome business t.hat the Go\ernment had sought to avoid. The difficulty was to find who should do the work, but he hoped that some proposition would be made by the Council. Mr Tj» nner said that he would be very happy to assist the Government in this matter-; but he thought the duty of collection devolved on the Superintendent, in whese names the promissory notes were made out. Many of the immigrants were well able to pay, and would no doubt do so on application. In fact, he had had three servants who were indebted to the Government in this matter, and who had told him that they had never been applied to for their money ; but would be ready to pay it whenever it was asked for. Lieut-Col. Lambert said that it must have been through negligence on the part of the Government that so large a sum had been allowed to accumulate. He had seen, week after week, advertisements in the papers, calling upon immigrants to pay up their promissory notes, and thought that this must have cost the Government a large sum in advertising alone. Numbers of these immigrants had left the Province, and he thought it unfair for the Government now to attempt to cast their unpleasant duties upon other shoulders. He would not, however, after waiting so long, come down at once as the mover would do. He thought limiting the time to the 31st May rather sharp practice.
Mr Buchanan moved as an amendment— That the words after " paid" in the last line but one be struck out, and the words " after reasonable notice " be inserted. —This, he thought, would remove any appearance of hardship from the motion. On the general question he must remark that he must absolve the Government alone from blame in this matter. Some two or three sessions ago a return on this subject had been moved for, but the motion had met with no support from the Council, who were, therefore, responsible for the delay. In this time of difficulty some little extra consideration was due to these debtors, and he thought that having waited so long, we need not Object bo wait a little longer. Mr M'Lean said that steps had been taken to prevent the immigrants indebted to the Government from leaving the Province. "What the member for the Country Districts had said about the Council was perfectly true. Two sessions ago the members had unanimously resisted a return of the names of defaulters, on the ground that it would not be fair to make their names public. He coincided with the motion on the point that immigration should not be in the rands of a political party; and he would add that no Government could submit to be subjected to the immense odium which collecting these dues would involve. Mr' Carlyon said the question could easily be got rid of by putting it into the hands of the proper officer. These immigrants had been guilty of the basest ingratitude. Mr Eerard thought the amendment meant nothing. If proceedings were taken in the Resident Magis trate's or Petty Sessions Court, time would be given by the magistrates. After some further remarks, the amendment was carried on a division. Mr Sutton moved as a further amendment— That the words " not to extend later than the 30th June " be added to the end of the motion. Agreed to on a division. Mr Ferard said that the member for Porangahau had spoken of £4,000 as being obtainable trom the service. This sum would help to pay our overdraft and to prevent the Loan Act being manipulated in a way that was not at all creditable. He saw the Government were afraid to act in this matter, but lie would press his motion, for it was not likely that they would find any person willing to undertake the odious task of collecting this money. A member for Te Ante had said he had no objection to take the toll-gate. If that gentleman instead would bid a reasonable sum for these debts, he (Mr F.) would support a' proposition to sell them to ti}m. He could no doubt make a very good thing of them. He did not wish to see these people under the thumb of the Superintendent ; but there would be a court between that gentleman and oppressive proceedings, and he did not think his original motion would have pressed unduly on the debtors. The amended motion was then assented to.
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Hawke's Bay Times, Volume 13, Issue 686, 27 May 1869, Page 3
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2,497PROVINCIAL COUNCIL Hawke's Bay Times, Volume 13, Issue 686, 27 May 1869, Page 3
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