PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Hawke's Bay Times, Volume XIII, Issue 589, 25 June 1868, Page 1 (Supplement)

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

T *f; r j;gj > \\\ j[]v tc ] ] [The following items were unavoidably omitted from our hist suiMileuieiit.J Waipawn Telegraph. This subject was now resumed. Tite iSt’EAKKi; said Lliat, acting on tlie order of' Hie Council, be bad sent the resolution to the Government at Wellington, j but it bad been returned to him as informal, as it bad not the signature of the Speaker. He signed it. and again on the 2Sth October forwarded it to Wellington, but the General Government bad not replied to it. Mr. Oumoxd said that be was doubtful whether be could give any timber informal ton. as the whole of the correspondence on this subject bad already been published. The only reason the General Government bad lor thus soiling aside the wishes of the public was that the Telegraph Surveyor bad reported in favor of Waipukurau. Major Lvmiikkt, in the course of some rajber lung remarks, said that it might be taken lor granted that the General Government would not send tin incompetent man as telegraph surveyor. In allusion to the remarks oi the member for Hampden, be stud that die position of the telegraph could not make much diliereuce to the inhabit,-mis of a city tweniv-livo miles distant. He said that lie believed that one of the members wished, the Government to quietly bear the expetmc of a second station at Waipawa, and said that the audacity of the idea was monstrous. Mr. Tank tut said that no fault lay w ith the Provincial Government in the matter, but he did not know whether this was the maimer in which ali Provincial Governments were treated by the central authority. Government Contracts, Major Laiiiieut, pursuant to notice, moved— That on next sitting day His Honor the Superintendent will cause to he laid on the table a return shewing what part of (he road made between W aipawa am! Waipukurau has been done by contract, anti what part imi : and the reason why all has not been con traded for. Motion agreed to. Education. Mr. "Wood moved the suspension of standing orders 2d and 27, to enable bun to give notice ol motion for a committee on the Kducation Act. Mr. berard objected to the standing rules being perpetually suspended. Lite motion was agreed to. and notice* given accordingly. ./■ tnance Cornmilive. Mr. PrniANAN. after obtaining the suspension of standing orders 2d and 27. moved that certain papers relating to finance should be referred to the b'mauee Committee. The motion was agreed to. and the Council adjourned. F Ii! HA V. dHXF Pd. The Council met at :i o'clock. Present, at tirst. only a i|Uoriini. Se\eral notices of motion having been given, ihe standing orders (1! members having this time taken ilieir sealm wen 1 suspended, -u (bat Saturday might he made a silling day. The Council then adjourned accordingly till Saturday at 2 o'clock. SATI'b’PAV. dCYF 20. The Council met at 2 o’clock. Present, all the members except Colonel Whitmore and Mr. Hoibel. Ex- r !,-r.na„rtj. Mr. Cun,vox said that in tlie ILral't ol the loth .lime lie was reported to have moved that a. certain message which bad bei’ii read to the Conned should be (brown behind the (ire. 11ns was altogether inaccurate. lie had certainly said that, coming as the message did from a perfect stranger to the house, it should be throw n behind the lire; but he had only gh en not ice that be would, on the next sittingday. move iiial the message be not received. This motion lapsed through bis absence on tin' following day. He had made this remark', believing that the message was sent in a spirit- of pure irony, to congratulate the Council on a eonstmimation so opposite to w bat was known to be its expressed wish. 1 f telegraphic communication had been established between Wellington and this province there might have been some matter for congratulation. In speaking of a st ranger he did not menu that the gentleman sending the message was unknown to the members. He (Air. C.) knew that there was only one noble--111 All 111 lilt? Province Cii llic ni svdh ] Since reading the letter of that stated that lie bad paid seven shillings and eight-pence for the telegram, ho had no aoubt that a compliment had really been intended after all. Major La.miif.kt said that, after what has fallen from the member for To Auto, lie also wished some little correction in the reporter’s version of what he said on the same occasion- He certainly made

no motion whatever, and therefore could not have been in default of his seconder. Without repudiating the words as reported, he would take tltis opportunity of saying that in consequence of his remark's not having been more fully’ reported, the context was made to appear in a very ihfI'ereni color iroin what he ever intended. He felt bound to ignore the right ol' any IllClUlUii \\ 111 L lIKIL CUtlliL'Jl, even LIJ.'UU however complimentary an occasion ; and no certainly asked “ who was Air. Jiussel!but without suspecting that be could have been understood in any other sense than meaning in what capacTiv that gentleman was cognizable by the Council. In the fair exercise of what he conceived to be bis duty, be bad never at any time bad the slightest intention of wounding any person s feelings, or to make remarks in this Council on any person which he would not. make,to him personally. The plant fact was tliai, seeing the lemner id’ ihe house on Hie occasion, as has been already explained by the member tor Tc A me. he thought by his remarks to gel rid oi any uiieourteous debate on the matter. He would add that, having been on friendly terms with Mr. liussoll I'm- the last ten years, it was nut likely that he should ask who he was with a view to be olieusive. d/ inisterial. Mr. M‘Lkax said he intended to ask fur an adjournment till next sitting day. and would explain his reamus. The resolution winch the Council had passed on Thursday, the 11th, appointing a Finance committee, had, at iir>t sight, appeared to him not to be conceived in any hostile spirit. His colleagues had, however, belter comprehended the nature of the resolution, and had concluded that it was in the highest degree unfavorable to (be Government. It bad not been expected lliat any business would be done tu-day, and several members were absent. He felt it would be only just tor the Council to i grant an adjournment to gne ihe Government time to determine upon the course they had best pursue. He would move for au adjournment till next sitting j day. ' | Mr. JlreutXAX would certainly oppose i I lie adjournment, imt only on present } grounds, but as a precedent. At flietime , the motion was I adore t he house the Mu perintemleut frankly .admitted that he could see no hostility to the Government in it, but now lie said that at that lime he had not fully comprehended it. imi had since found some kind of latent mischief in it, that he could only avert by means of an | adjournment. Whatever mischief there | might he concealed in the motion, there i was certainly none intended. He could only repeat, what he had said at the time lie moved it, that whatever blame was connected with it attached U> him only. He had not consulted any member on the subject—ln- bad cast the resolution on the table, as men cast their bread upon (he waters. —certain that al some future time it would hear Iruit. 11 e believed not only that this measure would he useful, but that it was necessary. That reductions were neee-sary in the Hstimai.’s all the members would agree; hut he had gailmred information relative to the Fstimaiesof Keveniie w himi had passed under the eye ol no nieiu her. tout oi the Covernmenli. but liini-vl!. lie would draw the al ten! mu of Ihe Council to the fact that the Fxceiitive had had ample lime (o eon-dder the motion without asking for any further adjournment. Hue notice was given of the motion, it wars supplemented by a further motion referring die W eiiington Hebt papers and Loan Appropriation Amendment Act (o the committee. 1f i lie wits ol the Fxeculive w ere wool-gathering at the time this motion was brought bn lb re die Council, they sumly bad ample time for consideration since. Seeing licit more than n week bad elapsed since then, be thought it too late to ask for an adjournment, and could ouiv look up,oti the r< ijuesl as a little political imniu-ii vre. 'Mie t ; o\craiimn 1 s]), ad,: | ;l k o into consideration also tin- time die country members laid already i ecu ,lot aim'd in town. 1 here was no such principle involved, in Him matter as there was in the case of a resj-onsiide ministry. AVimt dignity iiu> members of the Fxceiiiive were clothed wit it be was ipiite unable to I imagine. The senior member —the mem- ! her for .I’ora nga bail —had n pealedlv ini formed the Council that lie was not re- ! sponsible for anything but ihe advice bo ; gave the Superintendent. 2s o doubt this ' P . "I j *(1,1 j ,i ; U AS II \ orv >air cum Sc ; t'Ut M I Mat VCaS I,IC I real position of that membcr.helindnorigbt | to array himself with the importance of a i responsible minister, who. on an adverse | vote, must go out. Jt was quite time that I the Council should look at IHo proper poi sit ion of the Government, and not play at j parliamentary discussion ; in the menni time, seeing that the Suncrinlcndcnt was the only person responsible to the Council, they should not ape the forms of iCi^isiAitires ni iiii]>or{fuicc. Mr. .Ff.kakp said lie had supported the Government, at the time of the disastrous vote to which allusion had been made; but at the time he had no idea of the importance of the question. He must aeknow--1 lodge, how ever, that when he considered

that this vole was passed before the estimates w ere laid on the table, he found it must bo equal to a vole of want of confidence. lie considered ar the time he voted that this matter could lie much better eonsiucred in the whole house than in a committee, it was not ni tins Council us it wa j ru i.nglaii-h where the accounts were so intricate that no one who did not (he uiiillMiy could lu.j-e iu ii i id.-. i'.-i ,ii id them; tor here tney .vere not beyond the comprehension of any members of the house, lie felt the diilieulty oftiie question of adjournment before the business of the day was gone into, for upon the answers to some ol tin.' questions he had pul upon the paper would depend whether or not he tell eonln.leuee in the Government. He had voted with them on .1 hutsday because he had more conlidenee in them than in any committee. Mr. (Htvoxii .-aid (hat the present was | not tile time to consider our financial position. as it had not come regularly before (lie Council. His Honor had been so fully engaged during the week lliat. he had been unable to meet the members oftiie executive. Certain members bad also been informed that the Government had no intent ii -n of proceeding with any business to-day ; and under these circumstances he thought it wit< only right to adjourn till aii the members' could he present. '1 Ins vote winch bad been passed was of exactly the same nature as the one of Jast year. do (lie Lxcctdive personally it mattered little; imi. he should lie sorry to hear ids Honor spoken ol'as a man who had retained oiiiee after a vole equal to a direct tvanl-oth <mlideuce resolution had been passed by the Coimeil. It would completely alter his position—lie would sink: in the estimation of persons in w hose esteem lie had hitherto stood very high.

.Mr. Cum,yon said that he was not present lien the vote in quest mu was pas-vd: hut hail ! 1 1 ‘ been he would liavr piveii it Ins toil iiv adherence. Tin 1 present art ion of the t ioveniment only showed linn more and more the importance of the steps resolved upon. lie decidedly objected to tin- ( lovenmient dictating to tin- Council (lie iorm of a vote ut Conlulenee. lie believed that it’ the intention had been to pass a vote ot want of confidence the nn-mher for the Country Uistriel would have done it in a diivet manner, lie was not the man to hesitate on such a subject, or attempt to carry an object by a sidewind. fch> Car from beinp. as the Government had staled, the course pursued last session, this was totally different. Last session there was a distinct opposition party, and the estimates oi‘ the Covernment were thrown hack to (hem; this year they wen- merely referred to a linauee eonimill.ee. There was nothing unusual in appointing a timurne committee before the estimates were laid on the table in \\ eliinpton ii had been done session after session. The position oft ho Govern-nu-ni was similar to dial of a man who fears he is in pecuniary dillicuities. ami refuses to allow his lM.,ks in i) L > examined, lest they should confirm his suspicions. This was simply a piece ofpetniancy on the part of the Covernment. and if they persisted in it, he would he obliged to withdraw the supper; he came prepared !o pave. dir. ’1 inn hi; said i hat, he could not npree that die press ut action of the Council was similar to that of last year. There was 1 in*n a decided parly in opposition to the Covernnient, who were requested by the Couneil to take hack and re-ronsider their own estimates. Me had voted with the Covernment this time because lie considered the whole question at issue to he whether the estimates should he considered in the whole Council or in a select committee; and he believed die former course to he the best. When this question mis before (he Council die member tor Ihu anpahau said lie could md complain of the construction of (he eoinmillee. and tiie peiural opinion was that it was not an attempt to coalesce in opposing the Coven mien' . lie tin a;aid circumstance'- did no; warrant the exceed) nply nice view the Governnn nt had talo n of the vote of (he Council, as he did not consider that ii at all interfered w ith their dignity, if they still persisted in considering it a waul of confidence resolution, let it lie delcnvd lil! next, sit imp day. that the Couneil mipht. o.i on with tho hnsiness now before it. 1 here were I he two important oneslion of education and linamv. and now that mouthers had come prepared to pive them their consideration it was a pity to defer diem. iMr. .M'Ll-:an obtained leave to alter his motion for adjournment to make it halfpast seven, -Mr. A'De.vne said that ns one of the members tvlio voted on the resolution, he repretted the course the (doverunu-nl had deemed it their duty to adopt. He was sure that no vote of want of confidence was intended, nor was it the wish of the Council to embarrass the Government in anv wav. lie would, vote for the adjournment out. of courtes\ T to tho Government, and considered that, after the unavoidable waste of time that had taken place, the alteration in his lion or s motion vs as a profit improvement. Major L.vMnioii would draw the alien-

tion of the Council to the fact that there were only two members absent ("Hear, hear) bin he supposed it was considered that lliey would support ihe Government, lie recognised no Government but (lie buperintendent, lor the Kxecutive had aye thrown all tin* responsibility lb an iuvir snouioers, and, declared that they were merely ins assislanls. (i 1 ear, hear), --f j'lC.-Cill ! !ICV U CIV 111 I I Li* JJCtSitH m u; U bj U-* it (*iil!(l U’liO. !K.*t ( 1 to 1 1 '1 VO !ns (HVII way. gets into a pet. and says " T '.\uiitl (! 1 ear, hear.) 11’it were necessary. he would assure tiie Couneiltliatthere uas no warn of eoididence intended. If there had been, the motion would at once nave ‘men challenged ; but nothing of this hind happened. i\early every member sport<> tin the subject ; a division took place; and it was nut until alter a week s considerai iuii timt the Superintendent found aia thing wrong in it. Au doubt during !hat w eel; Ins llonor had entertained his disi nigmshed guest royally ; but the duties rd the Council should’ have received sonic ol In-- attention as well as the Governor. He was anxious that this committee should sit lor the purpose of seeing what the estimate of revenue really was, and on what grounds it was based, and if the Government really w tsiied the business to be got lliroiigli. they should not throw obstacles in the way of members. lie had no hesitation in saying that when the estimates were merely laid belore the touneil. most ol the members Worked in the dark, lie would vote against the adjournment. .dr. hiutiui! moved as an amendment that the ‘ 'nimcii adjourn (o hall-past seven, and that die notices ol molion then lake precedence oi 1 1 o> orders of the day. Mr. IJtvii vx.vx asked what good end could be obtained by the adjournment, lie would also be glad to hear wind course the Gov-eminent intended to take. Alter a whole week s consideration, they asked lor three days, and had mnv moderated (heir demands, first to twenly-lbur and then to three hours, lie could see no valid reason lor this delay, when the greatest legislative body In the world never reipiired more than Ibnr-and-twenty hours to consider their position. Perhaps they wanted to heat up members ; but, as they had been reminded, (here were only two absent, and the Council bad. often proceeded with more important business in the absence of a much greater number. The C 1 oven intent wished it to appear that their dignity was sorely invaded ; but in his opinion the dignity of (he Council was being desperately trilled with —it seemed as if (lie Government fancied it was made to be kicked. For his part he strongly objected to such treatment; lie would give the adjournment Ins determined opposition. and go to a division on the subject. -Mr. C.ua.voN could see no possible reason for the adjournment. Mr. Tan.nkk would support Hie amendment. as lie did not think it unreasonable, lie was, however, sorry that (he Government had taken so serious a view' of the matter.

The amendment was then put and carried mi a division. Messrs. Uuchanau, Carlyon. and \V eslon voting against it. The Council adjourned to halt-past 7. The Council resumed its sittings at ! .'-past 7. | M inisli ,-ial, i Mr. M‘Lkan said that the Government S had asked for an adjournment with the I view of having time lor considering what ; course they would pursue under the eiri emusla.uees wlneli had arisen. They had ; since found (hat. some members who voted ! for the select committee had not done so with any intention to express a want, of conlidenee in the government. Other , members, again, had .--aid pretty plainly, . that they haul no conlidenee in the government. With the view of testing what the ; majority of iho t'oune.il really felt, lie would table a motion for Tuesday. In the meantime he would answer the questions on (he notice paper, hut would not go on wall any government business. 7'CMms. Mr. Caki.vox presented a petition from certain residents at Waipawa, setting forth that the publican's license fee there was Chit, while it was only ,C2< 1 at villages within a distance of four miles, and praying tiiat a uniform fee should be exacted. Head and received. M r. K CNN mo presented a pot ition from Tail residents in .Napier, setting forth that ; the site already decided upon tor the new Tolr-TaV’ii aMtl i’ost iflli \rns the most eligible and convenient that could he chosen: and praying the Council to i express approval of the site already selected. — Head and received, and notice of motion given. Mr. Loo Kit presented a petition from : Mrs. Mary Wilson, setting forth that (ho : frontage tola r town section hadeomplelely j been destroyed by the cutting in Coote- ! road, and praying the Council to take her i case tiiiO consideration. T.oad and rcl eeived. 1 Mr. Mfciiaxax. pursuant to notice, I nii i\ edFor a eop\ otThe ordei either sent, oi (if

yet settled) proposed to bo sent to England for light-house apparatus. “He said that it was very desirable to know the cost of the proposed lighthouse, winch might be £2,()00 to ,€3,0U0, besides the cost of erection and maintenance ; also the description of light, the species_ of house, and the plans, if any. The information might be important, as showing whether the expense should not bo borne by the General Government. Mr. M'Lean said that this was one of the questions that would be mure properly j discussed when the Loan Appropriation Act came before tbe Council, He might state, however, that the Murine Engineer, Wellington, had been instructed lo prepare estimates, and these, with all information, would be laid upon the table. Coast Lights, no doubt, were a General Government undertaking ; but the cost of harbor lights fell in all instances upon the | provinces benefiting by the same. j Questions hy Mr. Fcrard. 1 Mr. Feuahd put the long series of questions standing in his name, which, with the answers, must be deferred till our next. General Government Expenditure. | Mr. Buchanan, pursuant to notice, moved— | That the Superintendent lay before the ; Council, at the earliest possible moment, a i synopsis of the entire General Government i expenditure in this province, with an ex- ! pression of opinion of himself and executive, ] founded on 1 licir experience, where and in i what degree, reduction can be effected, as j invited by the Hon. the Colonial Secretary, j —lie said that reference had been made | to this expenditure in the financial statement. The executive were better qualified Ilian private members to express an opinion as to where reduction might be effected. Such an expression of opinion had already been made by the Superintendent of Auckland. Although he moved this he did not anticipate that much good would arise from it, as the General Government was not in the habit of paying much attention to the representatives of Provincial Councils. Mr. M'Lean said that a synopsis of the expenditure had been already given by bis colleague, Mr. Ormond, who had intimated his intention lo follow it up further, which the Government quite intended to do. Land Purchases. Mr. Buchanan, pursuant to notice, moved— For a return of alt lands acquired by purchase from the natives as a provincial estate, under the authority ot the “ Loan Appropriation Ordinance,'’ Soss. 8, No. 1, shewing—1. The name of the block. 2. From whom purchased. 3. Area within the province, and area beyond the boundaries of the province. ■l. Price expressed in deeds. 5. Payments in cash, and dates of payment. G, Expenditure other than payments in money. 7. Amounts still due. 8. Cost of surveys. 9. Interest and other nndescribed charges. 10. Total cost of each block. 11. Rate per acre, 12. Aggregate outlay for the whole of the lands. 13. Quantity of land sold in each block since its acquisition. 11. Quantity remaining unsold. 15. Amount received on account of each block-, with dates of receipts. IG. Aggregate receipts by sales. —Ho said that this return, was one of some importance. Rumour already pointed to a very serious loss on one of the largest purchases the Papakura block; and doubtless, if the return was given ns asked, the profits generally would be found to be infinitesimally small. He thought that land purchasing, now it was open to individuals, should lie at an end ou the part of government. On their pan it was much more costly, while it laid them open to imputations. The return in question would be of considerable use to the finance committee; and it would guide the Council as to the vote for land purchases under the Loan Appropriation Act. Mr. M'Lean said that the return asked for would he prepared and laid upon the table. Bank Overdraft. Mr. Buchanan moved the motion standing in his name atlirming the necessity of advice as to the legality of supplementing the revenues accruing hy bank overdraft. Mr. On?, iond said that a circular letter to this effect had been sent by the General Government to all the provinces. Mr. Buchanan then withdrew the motion. Main lines of Boad, Mr. Feeaep, pursuant to notice moved— For n report in detail, by the provincial engineer, of all works proposed to be executed and defrayed out of the portion of Hit loan proposed to be set aside for main roads by the. “Loan Appropriation Amendment Bill," such n-port to be presented before the Coum il uuo into commit toe ou that bill.

Mr. Op.hond said that it was never intended to ask the Council to vote a lump sum for this purpose. The details would be laid on the table before the second reading of the bill. Motion agreed to. U p-coiiiii fif Roads. Mr.'Weston, pursuant to notice, moved— For a return in connection wilh the following: roads:—Waipawa lo Waipnkurau, old line and new lino ; Waipukurau lo Purangahan ; Waipukurau lo Ruataniwha; | Waipawa Lo Riiaianiwha. Such return to ! be for the current iimmciai vcai, and io i i ? i snow— | 1. Amount spent on each road. | 2. Amount e.-limaled as required to com- | pleie end) mail. I 3. Number of bridges, cost of each, and I whether executed, by contract or ■ how, on the- said roads. ; •1. Number of culverts, cost of each, and I wi let her executed by contract, urh< >w, 1 on the said roads. i 5. Sums paid for limber for bridges, c. G. From whom purchased. | 7. Price per tree. ; Mr. OiiMuNi) objected to (his return on ; account of the great trouble and expense! it would cause lo prepare it, and thought I the member asking for it should indicate j some particular portion of the roads in j question as the ground-work of inquiry. j Mr. Weston denied that the return, ■ confined as it was to one year, would be | so expensive, and it would be useful, lie i could not indicate any particular portions, i the fact being that he was requested Gy : telegram to move for this information, ; and was himself unacquainted with the i circumstances. | Mr. Okmund said that, after this ad- ' mission, the Government would feel justi- | lied in opposing (he motion. j Motion negatived on a division. j Petty Sessions. ] Major Lamueut, pursuant to notice, moved— That his Honor tin- Superintendent will lay on the table, with as little delay as possible, all or any letters, ,'ce.. that have I passed between the General Government and his Honor relative to the resohnion passed by (his Council, at Us last session, I requesting courts of petty session being | cslaldished in certain districts of this pro- i vinoo. Mr. Caelvon seconded the motion, and both gentlemen spoke in support of it. Mr. M'Lean promised tliat the information should he laid upon the table. Besotut ions on Education. Mr. Feeakk said that, he felt considerable embarassment in moving tbe reso- i lutious standing in Lis name, because he i had not had the practical experience of i the working of any educational system j which would give the self-conlidenee so | necessary for anyone who would seek to j win the confidence of others. However. | he had felt bound to oiler a decided oppo- | sitiou to the education bill of the Govern- j ment, and the Council might fairly expect j that he would indicate to them some oilier j feasible scheme. He had lir.st ollered his i notes to the Government, but tbe member 1 of the Government who had moved the i second reading of the bill, in suggesting j that the hill be referred lo a select committee. had indicated no changes which the Government would propose to main' in it, lie thought there was no guarantee that a bill prepared by a select com- ! miltee would be more likely to be ac- : copied by the Council than the one intro- j duced by the Government,. He wished; the Government had introduced resolu- j tions which, if accepted hy the Council. J might have acted as instructions to a sided committee. His own resolutions might be i unnecessarily long, being in facta skeleton bill, but he had wished to show the full working of the scheme he proposed. The necessity for a new Educational Act of course arose from the fact that the present resources of the province would no longer furnish funds for educational purposes, and a rale had become necessary ; but he believed that the principal objection to the present education system was that improper and incompetent persons were appointed schoolmasters, and that the schoolmasters were insufficiently paid, i tedid not think that there was any unwillingness to i continue the aid to denominational schools at present receiving it, on (he ground of I proselytismoroihorwise; or any desire that j the attempt to insure the eillcicncy of the | schools by Government inspection .should j be abandoned. The Government bill was objectionable because it adopted the practice which bad been so great a cause of the difficulties between the General and Provincial Governments, that one body was to have the spending of the money, whilst a »'1 ■ffp■" -“v+■ 1 1, .7 1 • 4. c uiiiuvut cravtj aau tnu ui;|JG[tuiai igj Ot raising it, that it proposed a uniform rate throughout the province, the amount raised in each district being spent entirely in that district. If, therefore, the rate was made sufficiently high to raise funds for the maintenance of schools in thinly populated districts, the inhabitants of Napier would be taxed to a much greater extent than their own necessities required, the money being moreover expended m maintaining a i i'i ,> uiLu wounl be in opposition to | schools already established in the place ; ■ if the amount of rate was calculated ac- ' cording to the wants of Napier, it would

not provide /mid.; sullieient fur 1 Jic maintenance ot schools iu out!yin;.' districts, ilic bill was also objectionable because by it the Government abandoned all supervision over llio I’uuds raised by them, and lelt their eontiol entirely to local boards. I he provisions as to the local boards sendmg_m aeeouuts and reports on the slate of their school, to the Superintendent, would lie utterly nugatory, as they would have no sulheient motive to attend to such uro- ■ visions, it might be that the present sys- I tern of appointing masters was niiketioua- I ble ; tiiat a S!!pel’mte l "i(‘iil ti.rimo- nr. ! spceiul interest in the subject of education, or iu tiie wants ot a particular locality’migbt yield to iiiiluenec aud give a schoolmaster’s post to somebody without sulheient assurance of the Illness of the candidate; but there was c(|ual likelihood with a local board that there might bo somebody belonging to the district in misfortune—perhaps generally liked —perhaps having a large family who must be provided for, or owing money to many 'persons in the district : an elibrl is made, the poor devil is provided for, aud the school is ruined. Entire management by a central body necessitated general rules, not sulheiently elastic to suit all cases; and an eiiieieut master might not have the same inlluenee for good or take the same interest as it he had the support and sympathy of a good local hoard. Ou the other hand, though schools entirely under local management would here and there be brought to the Inchest stale ot ellieieney where individuals in the locality took a keen interest in them, they would, under ordinary circumstances. be subject to all the petty jobbery which used to disgrace parishes and ( he smaller foundation schools ot England ; am! there was always the likelihood that managers would only compare their school with itself, and think that what had hitherto been was good enough tor them, and would make no improvements. The true course seemed to be that generally adopted in like eases in the present day — to give extensive powers ot local management, but to have a central body to give its advice to the local bodies, to control and keep them to their duties ; to gather information respecting improvements in education in other places, and to urge their adoption upon the local managers. A body having the special duty assigned to it to appoint schoolmasters, or to grant certificates ot ellieieney, would act with a much greater feeling of responsibility than any ’person with whom this only formed one amidst a great variety of duties. He had had no time, before preparing bis resolutions, to talk the matter over with oilier members of the Council, or with those who might be regarded as loading authorities on the subject by the dilicrent religious denominations ; but had looked, for aid to the Acts of oilier provinces. It had been said that the Government Dill was founded on the Nelson system. He knew that that system had been adopted ou the recommendation of a commission w hich sat some twelve years ago, and gave the matter most careful consideration. It had stood the test of experience, though amendments had been from time t«> time introduced. r fhe Government Bill diltered most materially from the Nelson system. He had had the pleasure of a conversation with a gentleman ot recognized ability, who had formerly resided in Nelson, and held important provincial olllces there. That gentleman, on being told that the Covenunent had introduced a bill professedly (bunded on the A ebon system, but without tiie centra! board, remarked, “ AVliy the central board is a most important part ot the system —is a body full of life; Dr. Greenwood takes (lie greatest possible interest in the subject, ami he is a host in himself.” Now that indicated just what was wanted here—that if there was any man of ability like Dr. Greenwood, keenly interestediu education, (hero should be moans ot utilizing his labours tor the general good, and that they should not merely be devoted to the improvement of some particular school in his immediate neighbourhood. It might be thought that he (Air. Ferard) would have been satisfied to take from the (Nelson Act the missing parts of their system, but he remembered that another province. Canterbury, had also, more recently, had a commission ou (he subject, composed ot very able men. under the chairmanship ot Air. Tancred, ! who was known throughout the colony I both for his great acquirements and for 1 the interest he took in questions of this j character ; another member of the comi mission was (Mr. Holloston, who had just : been elected Superintendent by live unanii mous voice of the people of Canterbury ; j that commission had not only the advant- | age of the experience acquired in the pro- ! vince of Nelson, but had carefully examined the various systems iu force in the other provinces of New Zealand, and in the Australian colonics ; and upon the system adopted iu Canterbury, upon their recommendation rather than upon the Nelson Act, he had based his resolutions. It had been a satisfaction to him to Cud that in one point in which he proposed to differ from the Canterbury scheme, viz., by grant ing aid, as at present , by way of capitation money, he was in accord with the recent “ Native Schools Act,” for he doubted not, that one of the Canterbury

commissioners, -dr. Rul'cstOn, had, us assistant secretary for native affairs, a largo share in tlie preparation of that Act. The Canterbury system di tiered greatly from Uie A’elson system, in the constituiioii of the central board, In Nelson, this uoard Wus composim oi re pres,/u ta 1 1 vcs of the local committees : in Canterbury, it consisted of a few persons nominated by and removable by the Superintendent, wiib (be advice of Iris executive —responsible therefore to the executive, and, through them, to the Council, for their proceedings. Me thought the Canterbury system pro* ferable to the Nelson ; a small board, so appointed, would be composed of persons taking special interest in the subject, and work together with more consistency ot purpose, and for more dellnito ends, ami be more careful of the general good of the province, and mure zealous in collecting and dill using information, than a larger and constantly changing board. Under the Nelson system, it might happen that the best and most reliable member of the board might not bo re-elected if lie had dune anything to oll'end the committee of bis own locality, as by failing to obtain for them an extra grant or the like. He then proceeded to comment ou the resolutions seriatim. The uniform rate on every householder, recommended by the second resolution, was not the best but was the simplest and most easily collected; he recommended it as a temporary measure, as it would be very expensive to make a valuation of all the property in the province for assessment; but such valuation woidd soon have to be made either by the C.eneral Government or the Provincial Council. The plan would have in it a sort of rough justice, for, though the rich would pay no more than the poor, they would probably make no use of the schools for their own children. He observed that an educational rate was about to be made upon property at Canterbury, upon a valuation made for municipal ami road purposes. He thought that school fees should be made as high as an ordinary laborer with a family could allbrd to pay, as it was primarily the duty of parents to educate their children, and people valued more highly that which they had to pay for, In some places the jealousy of religious denominations had excluded ministers of religion from the central board. He thought such a rule would increase the difficulty of (hiding competent persons. Under his plan educational districts would have to be formed round all the present common schools ; but when a new district was to be formed, or a subdivision of an old district made, it would depend upon the wishes of the inhabitants. He thought the subjects which they should insist iijion being taught in all schools should be few; to the list in his resolution ho should like to see added drawing, as giving an additional power of expression, so that, as .Mr. ituskiu had said, the time would come when it would be expected that everybody should be as able to express bis ideas with the pencil as with the pen. He should bice choral singing added, ami military drill if possible. The subject on which, above all others, a .'State ought to see that children were properly instructed, w as elides, their duties to their fellow men ami their God. thereby rendering them goodeilinens. Hut these, in Christian lands, were made to rest for their authority so entirely upon an historical basis, and with the facts of that history theological doctrines were so interwoven w iili dogmas upon winch rival sects ditiered, that he feared there was no possibility of so) arranging instruction upon this point that they could fairly make it compulsory upon all. and (hey must therefore leave the children upon this point to the instruction of their parents and the ministers of religion. He thought there would be more consistency in the action of a local board if oueha!f only of its members were changed annually. He should ask the leave of the Council to withdraw the resolution 23, leaving it to the local managers to determine that religious instruction should be given : on further consideration, he felt the plan would be mostmischiovous; where religious denominations were nearly balanced, there would be a constant struggle what religious doctrines should be (aught , and they might try to force an efficient i master to teach doctrines winch he did not himself agree with. Resolution 2d i was only inserted under the idea that the zeal of members of some religious denomination might secure a school to a district | sooner Hum they would otherwise have it . In some parts of the country he thought I persons would be willing to give the use of I buildings in which a schoolmaster might j teach two or three days in a week, though j they could not entirely support a master, i The system of central supervision, with [ management by local boards, had been S adopted in most provinces. Some people ! thought the province not sufficiently ad- | vanced for such a system, but they would i be unwilling to say that they were not advanced enough for a system which had been found to work at Nelson, not merely in the days of gold-digging, but in the sleepy times of twelve years ago. On the motion of Mr. Tanner, the debate was adjourned till next sitting day (Tuesday.) 1 The Council then adjourned.