Provincial Council.

Hawke's Bay Times, Volume XIII, Issue 584, 8 June 1868, Page 3

Provincial Council.

THURSDAY. 4th JUNE. The Council met at 3 p.m. Present, — Iho Speaker, Messrs M l Lean, Rhodes, Kennedy, Locke, Sutton, Ferard, Wood, Buchanan, Weston, Lambert, A’Deane, Carlyon, Tanner, Parsons, Dolbel, and Whitmore. PRIVILEGE. Mr CARLYON spoke at r-onsid o r«M" length on a question of privilege connected with the book of proposed standing rules and orders. A long discussion of a very desultory character ensued, which was closed by the Speaker ruling that it was out of order. ADDRESS TO HER MAJESTY. Mr M'LEAN, before bringing forward the motion standing in his name, asked leave to suspend standing orders 26 and -7, in order to ask for an adjournment of the Council for half-an-hour, after the rest of the business was disposed of. On the standing orders being suspended, Mr M‘LEAN moved— For the appointment of a Select Committee to prepare an address to iier Majesty, having reference to the attempted assassination of his Royal Highness the Duke of Edinburgh. Such committee to consist of Messrs. Ferard, Wood, Buchanan, Whitmore, Tanner, and the mover. Report to he brought up presently. PRIVILEGE. Mr CARLYON said that before the motion was put he wished to bring forward another question of privilege. In a private conversation with the Speaker, that gentlemen had told him that his modesty would not permit him to dictate to the printer which parts of the minute-book he should print, and which parts it would be proper to expunge. The SPEAKER; Decidedly not. I do not consider that I have a right to expunge any portion of the minutes after they have been confirmed by the Council. Mr CARLYON : Then it is high time that you should. The SPEAKER: If you wish to speak upon this subject I must insist upon your giving a notice of motion. Mr CARLYON then gave in a notice of motion on the subject for next sittingday. Mr M'Lean’s motion was then put and agreed to. LANDS AT WAIROA. In the absence of Lieut.-Col. WHITMORE, Mr M'LEAN answered the question standing in that gentleman’s name, viz : Whether he is able to hold out any hope of speedily acquiring tluj lands situated on the north bank of the Wairoa river, which are so important to the progress of that district.

—ihe Government were now making arrangements towards the acquisition of the lands on the north bank of (he Wairoa river, with the view of completing and consolidating (lie settlement of that district. STEAM COMMUNICATION WITH iVAIKO \ AND POVERTY BAY. His HONOR said that the question standing next on the order paper in the oame of the member for \V airoa, who was absent, having relation to finance, should be postponed until such questions Came under the consideration of the Council. Uho question was as follows : Whether any effort will be made by the Governmeat to rev ive steam communication with Wairoa and Poverty Bay. INLAND ROUTE To POVERTY BAY'. In reference to the next question placed on the order paper by the member for Wairoa— Whether any steps are likely to be taken by the Government, in connection with the Provincial Government of Auckland, to open the coast line traffic, by the inland route, from. Wairoa to Poverty Bay——Hia HONOR said that the Auckland Government had been communicated with, but that at present the financial state of the Province of Auckland was such that it was totally unable to spend money in any public improvements in that district. TAUPO ROAD. Mr LOCKE moved— That all reports connected with the Taupe Road be laid on the table. —'Hie subject of opening up this road was one of great importance. Runs were being largely taken up in the Taupo country, and many thousands of sheep had left this province for that district. Except between Napier and Taupo, there was no obstacle to overland communication between Na pier, Auckland, and Tauranga. He should like, therefore, to see the reports referred to in his motion. Mr M‘LEAN promised they should be laid oa the table as early as possible. VOLUNTEER LAND ACT. Mr BUCHANAN, pursuant to notice, moved the second reading of the Volunteer Land Act. The Act, he said, was strictly m conformity with the Acts of the General Assembly on the subject. At present there could be no claimants under the Act, and they would never be numerous; within eighteen months there would be about thirty in the province. This represented indeed nearly the whole number as the Waipawa volunteer forces might be said to be in a moribund state. . Lieut.-Colonel WHITMORE seconded the motion. If such an Act were not passed, the volunteers of Hawke’s Bay would be placed at a disadvantage compared with those of other provinces, and he considered that there were none in the colony more deserving than those of this province.

j Mr M'LEAN said that the Government 'quite agreed with the bill. He considered that the volunteers of Hawke’s Bay deserved well of the province, and that it was in a manner bound to carry out the intentions of the General Government The Government perfectly acquiesced in the principle of the bill ; but he thought it would be only wise to limit the time. Mr FERARD considered that the time should be limited. The member for the country district had said that there would be some thirty applicants within eighteen months; this would ba at the rate of twenty per annum, representing an annual charge to the Province of £6OO, which it was scarcely in a position to afford. He thought that it should be limited to those at present in the volunteer force, and that the certificate should only hold good for one year after it vvas granted. Air BUCHANAN said he was very willing to make the suggested alterations, and would ba pleased to set the proposed limit. Ihe. member for the town, however, was quite under a misapprehension in supposing that the £6OO would be an annua! charge to the Province. He did not think the words he had used would bear this interpretation. He had spoken of the thirty applicants as being the whole number, as the force was almost extinct; and the £6OO could not by any possibility become an annual charge. The motion was then agreed to, and the bill read a second time. COMMITTEE ON ADDRESS.

The Council adjourned for half-an-hour to allow the Committee moved for by Mr M‘Lean to draw up an address to her Majesty, At the expiration of the half-hour the Speaker again took his seat, and the Chairman brought sip the following report, which was read and adopted unanimous ly : - To the Queen’s Most Excellent Majesty. May it please Your Majesty,—

We, the Provincial Council of the Province of Hawke’s Bay, in the Colony of New Zealand, in Council assembled, desire humbly to assure Your Majesty of the loyal attachment to Your Majesty’s throne ami person felt by the inhabitants of this portion of your dominions. We wish to express the universal joy fell tiirou gbout this Province at the news that God had been pleased to spare thejlife, of his Royal Highness the Duke of Edinburgh, and to restore him to health after the wicked attempt made upon his life in New South Wales, The intimation that Your Majesty had been pleased to arrange that this Colony should be visited by one of Yonr Majesty’s sons had been received by us with pleasure anil gratitude, as a token of Yuar Majesty’s gracious care of and favor to ns. We are sorry that His Royal Highness the Duke of Edinburgh has been unhappily prevented from being: able, by personal observation, to testify to the loyally of the inhabitants of this colony, where the warmest welcome awaited him, and in which, though a remote portion of Your Majesty’s possessions, your Royal solicitude at all times for the welfare of yonr people is as keenly appreciated as in the less distant, parts of the Empire. Re pray that (ini) may continue to bless and protect Your Majesty and'all the Royal family. . VOLUNTEER LAND .ACT. The Council went into Committee on the Volunteer Land Act. Several amendments were made, on the motion of Mr Buchanan, after which the Chairman reported progress, and handed the bill as amended to the Speaker. The Council then adjourned. FRIDAY, sth JUNE. The Council met at 3 o’clock. Present, — The Speaker and all the members except Mr Ormond. The minutes of the last meeting wenread and confirmed. HAWKE’S BAY BOILING DOWN CO. Mr SUTIOW, pursuant to notice, asked the Superintendent— Whether the Hawke’s Bay Steam Boilingdown Company lias complied with the provisions 'of the “Slaughter-house Act,” in respect of the payment of the fees for slaughtering chargeable under that Act.

—lie had heard that some fee was paid by the Company, and wished to know whether it was in accordance with the Act. Ilis HONOR said that the Company had to pay the fees charged by the Act, but only on sheep slaughtered and sent into town. RIFLE SHOOTING. Mr WESTON, pursuant to notice, asked the Superintendent— Whether it is the intention of the Government to apply to its intended purpose the sum of Fifty Founds, voted last session, as prizes for Rillc Shooting to Militia and Y'ohmtcers. His HONOR said that the money was lying at tho Treasury, available at any time for the purpose tor which it was voted. Lieut.-Colonel WHITMORE said that having been officially informed within the last few days that the money was lying at the Treasury, he had applied for it and received it. STANDING RULES AND ORDERS. Mr A’DEANE, pursuant to notice, moved— That tho Standing Rules and Orders reported by the Committee annointed last session, and brought up on the 18th October, be considered. —He thought this was the regular course to adopt in this matter, though the member for the {Country Districts had said it should be brought up in the form of a bill. He did not think that member could show anything, in May or elsewhere, to prove that it should be brought iu in that form. Mr EERARD moved, as an amendment, — That the words “ oa Tuesday next ” be added To the motion. j —He knew that it was not necessary to [give notice of motions in committee, but

ho wished to do so, as he had some important additions to surest, which he should like to give members lime to consider.

Major LAMB HR I’, in seconding the amendment, said that as one of the committee which nad drawn up the proposed Standing Buies and Orders, he hoped no obstacle would be thrown in the way of their consideration. Ife til -Uig iit that they should be considered in committee of the whole house.

Air BUG II AN AX had not said that the book should bo brought up in the* ionu of a bill; but that it should have passed through the same stages. This Council should remember that it was not officially before them, having only been adopted pro forma last session. The whole loss of time which would ensue over this-matter would be due to members’ ignorance of, and want of attention to, the present Standing Rules and Orders. These rules were few and simple—any member might make himself thoroughly acquainted with them in an hour; but if they did not do this with tile present code, how could they manage with tiro proposed one? Mr CAKLYON opposed the action taken on different grounds. He thought the plan of the General Assembly ought to have been adopted, where, at the beginning of the session, a standing committee ou Standing Rules aud Orders was formed, whose duty it was to consider questions which might arise, connected with the Standing Rules and Orders, and report upon suggested alterations. Lieut.-Golonel WHITMORE, as one of the committee which drew up these rules, would support them. Ho saw the force ol the objection of the member for the Country Districts, that they were not, slWcllv speaking, before the House, and that it was a mistake to adopt them pro forma, but did not think that anything would be gained, for or against them, by pressing it. He now proposed another amendment, which ho thought would meet the case;— Tint tlie Standing Rules and Orders, printed by order of this Council, and adopted pro forma last session, be now considered in committee.

—The member tor To Ante bad mistaken the duty of the committee on Standing Rules and Orders in the General Assembly. Their duty was simply to see that in all private bills the Standing Rules and Orders were carried out, and not to suggest alterations. Mr C'ARLYON : That is a distinct comraitee altogether. Mr TANA Eli seconded tiro amendment. Mr CATILYON proposed that instead of the word “ now,” the words “on Tuesday next,” should be substil uted. Though the member for Wairoa was in the highest Council in the Colony, yet when he slated just now that the duty of the committee on Standing Rules and Orders was simply to see that they were carried out in the case of private bills, he. made the greatest mistake he had ever made in his life. Ever since the oereral Assembly had existed alterations of various kinds had been made, session by session, by a standing committee. lie was sorry that May had again been spoken of as an authority. In May it was laid down that a person moving an order of the day had no right of reply. In this Council ho had, and this one instance out of many would show that May was no authority in the Colony. He would not be governed by him, but by the 8p aker alone. The committee which the member for Wairoa hud been thinking of was one which answered to the Examining Council in England. This was composed ol Queen’s counsel, but in the Assembly its dunes wore performed by a committee, •uni in this I’roviuee it was the duly of the Provincial tsulocitor to attend to these things, though whether lie did so or not was a dillereut tiling. The member for Wairoa had, however, made a great mistake in saying that this was the function ol the committee on Standing Rules and Orders.

Major LAMBERT seconded the amend - mem proformailr iANNER could see no adequate reason for postponing this matter to Tuesday. If jt was done be did not soo how the work was to be got through. Mr hKItAKD was greatly surprised to hear it stated that no reason had been shown for deferring the consideration ot the Standing Rules and Orders. Some of these rules might go beyond the powers of the Council, and the results be very serious. For instance, all sorts of powers were given to the Chairman of Committees and if that member were acting under them, to commit some disorderly person to custody, having no local right to do so, any single member of the Council would be subject to heavy damages for false imprisonment. Councils were very apt; to exceed their powers. Every year bills relating to such matters as highways and fencing were disallowed, in consequence of being contrary to some act of a higher assembly. It was only reasonable that time should bo given to members to gave notices, of amendments. Mr A’DEANE thought it would be a great pity to defer the consideration of these Rules and Orders. He did not consider them perfect, though, the laro-er non ion were from the Standing Orders of thollousc of Representatives. Major LAMBERT thought no member should ask for more time. one exhands for three months. The object of the compilation was to prevent the need of reference to such books as May, and it had given the Committee, particularly the Chairman, an immense amount of trouble for three weeks. The Council was not so well up in its rules as one or two members, but ho thought that, with a little forbearance, they might manage very well.

Air TANNER explained t hat lie had not said that no reason had been given for delay ; but that he had not heard a inadequate reason. Lieut .Col. WHITMORE expected (Lai they would have u Week or ten days’ Lard work, and lie saw no reason for delay. He could not support the amendment. ORDER. Air CARLYON rose to a point of orderHe found in the Standing Rules and Ordors thru, if ,;H . v . rle ~o t r ],; s . posed of at 3 o’clock the debates should be adjourned, and the orders of the day' proceeded with. It was now nearly five. The SHEARER: You have got the wrong book. They are the Standing Orders for the first session of the Council. Ihe present Standing Order fixes five as the hour.

STANDING RULES & ORDERS (Resumed.) Air BUCHANAN wished to know tin words of the amendment before the house. The SHEARER read the amendment us follow.,— Ibat the word- “in committee ou Tuesday next ’ be added iuthe motion. Air BUCHANAN moved as an amendment— Ilia, the words “be ooiMilcred in Committee on luesday next” be struck out, with a view to Ue insertion ut the words “ be read a second time oa dursaay next.” —A great deal of personal feeling had been ~.i•-< w ti last session about these Standing j i Lilies and Orders. He bad hoped it was j bumed; but it was being rapidly evoked jagain. The manner in which the Chair-j I.nan had brought them down reminded him of the lawyers’ principle in the West-i ern States “ Pull the dogs’ tails, and let them fight. Ihereshouht be a discussion on the general principle of the alteration before these new rules were discussed in detail. He should press Lis amendment to 1 a division.

Mr CARLTON seconded the amendment. He had not read a line in the pamphlet. lie bad supposed, as any one would naturally from the title, that it contained the existing rules, anti had not paid' any attention to it. There was no date to l the pamplet, and it contained no intiina-; tion of having been printed by authority, tie could not draw such fine distinct ions as the gentleman who had just spoken " 110 reason,” and ■< no adequate reas.m,” 1 and considered tbit tie had given a per-; Icetiy adequate reason. I Mr TANNER said that that was the. second time that the legal gentleman op-' posite had attacked the unfortunate lit In of the pamphlet. WBhAXE would oppose Hue amendment. Although the member for the Country District, had said the pamphlet should have been brought hi m the farm ol a tail, he had given no reason lor doing so. it was hard for the Committee, alter having worked so hard, to have so many technical objections hurled at iheir head. Alter a lew remarks from various members, Mr Buchanan's nmemltu ml was our ; ami lost on a division, the ayes being Mes S , s Buchanan, Weston, and Mr Curlyon’s ammulnu-i.i was then put wilu the same result, the nyes being, Messrs Bucmuuiu, \\ estou, Caiivon, and corard. Lieut-Col. Whitmore's ameudm ml was then pui, and carried upon a division, the only dissentients being Messrs .Buchanan and Weston. ihe Council then went into committee on the tSiauaing Rules, and after a l.msi and tedious discussion and several divisions, succeeded in passing the lirst two clauses. On the motion of Mr RTTJDE.S at bib p.m. the Chairman reported progress. -Mr IvIIOJJIiS moved that the Council do now adjourn till next sit ling-day. Lieut.-001. WHITMORE moved as an amendment that it adjourn till 7. Chi .a division, Lieut.-Col. Whitmore's amendment was carried, and the Council adjourned.

t'liu Council resumed at 7. MINUTES OF COUNCIL. Air CARL TUX, pursuant to notice, moved— That tlie Speaker of the Provincial Council be requested to decide on what portions of the Minutes of the Cmmc.il, as reported by the Clerk, shall he ordered to lie published. —lt was necessary that some report of the proceedings of the Council should be kept, but not that all the useless stufi printed year after year in the Blue Rook should be preserved, except in the minutes of the Council. Not. one member ever thought proper to keep these Lr-oks ; they were in-

variably torn up, mid the printing was altogether needless expense. The Speaker should exercise his functions, and aim !-v the minutes tor the press. ilr M*LEAN thought it should bo done by Committee. It would, be unfair 10 throw so much responsibility on the Speaker. Mr WOOD said that in Session TV he had proposed to Capt. Carter, tnen Superintendent, the reduction of the Blue Book to reasonable limits. Cupt. Carter assented, aud be cut down the minutes to about or.c-stxth, saving a great cost in printing, and rendering what remained more valuable. Next session, however, some member objected that the minutes were not full enough, and the system was discontinued. Lieut,-Col. WHITMORE made a few remarks which led to an exceedingly personal and irregular discussion, haring allusion to the erents of last session. Mr CARL VON obtained leave to withdraw his motion, substituting the following amendment by Mr Buchanan: —

Hi: 1 ! a printing committee be appointed to de-tt-riniiie wha! part of (In; minutes of this Comic J, mid ol the documents laid ou its table shall be printed. Such committee to consist of Messrs. . I Lean, Whitmore, Tanner, Carlyon. Parsons, and the Speaker. Mr FERAUD moved an amendment to tlio eliect that an order should be inserted in (ha book of Standing Kules and Orders, Betting lorlu waul parts of the minutes tvere to ue piunteu, and which to be suppressed ; but it was negatived on a diviForm'd, Kennedy' and ddDear" The original motion (appointing a printing committee) was then put and agreed to, and the Council adjourned.