DEBATE ON MAORI MURDERERS.

Hawke's Bay Times, Volume 6, Issue 312, 5 October 1865, Page 1

DEBATE ON MAORI MURDERERS.

We condense the following account of the resumed debate on Mr Colenso’s motion, which took place on Wednesday, the 27th ult, from the Independent of the following day:— Mr Cheighton drew attention to the fact that two of the murderers pardoned by the proclamation had since that pardon been tried, convicted, and sentenced to death. He believed the action of the Government to hare been illegal. They should have brought a bill of amnesty before the House. He trusted the Government would not view this as a party question. Mr O'Neil believed the effect of the proclamation would be dangerous to many of the Northern Island settlers. • Mr Dillon Bell was surprised that these murderers should be included in the amnesty. They had brought about the war and financial ruin of the Colony, and he would never consent to the action of the Government. The Hon. the Defence Minxsteb said that Mr Bell was as much responsible for the war as the murderers were, as they bad given warning of their intention to kill any person who should go that way, and it was no more murder than killing soldiers in war since. The Government wished to give the natives every latitude for their customs.

Mr Bsiiiij in explanation, denied the charge, and refused the statement. Mr Ckosbib Ward was surprised and indignant at the charge, but more surprised still at the pardo i of the native murderers who had caused the war. If the amnesty had been for political offences only it would be deserving condemnation, but as dealing with crimes it wa« a blunder, as these must be dealt with by the law. The proclamation, if not futile, would make us contemptible. The Hon. the Premier said that, to punish all crimes of sedition and insurrection, would be to carry on a war of extermination. The enemy were broken and scattered, and comparatively quiet; now would be the time to show mercy. The natives had not our ideas of right and wrong, and were entitled to commisseration. Mr Bell had known, or ought to have known, of the circumstances that led' to the murders, and was so far responsible. Such a question should be left ia the bands of an Executive, if the house had confidence in it; if not, there was its remedy, Mr praxis accused Mr Ward of inconsistency, in saying that the war must be carried on, while he opposed additional taxation. Mr Buckiand said the Ministry had put the law aside and condoned murders. The Maoris understood as well as we did the difference between murders and slaughter in the field. They bad recognised the punishment of the murderer of Mrs Thompson. If these men had not committed murder, neither had those who had killed Mr Fulloon, who had met his fate in consequence of information that had leaked out from Government officials, for nothing took place at the Native office but was known through the length and breadth of the land. The tribes knew that it was murder, and that the inability of the Government to punish was the reason of the amnesty. How did they receive the proclamation ? by shooting down the messenger from the Government! The Maoris were said to be beaten, but they were not; —they were as determined as ever. Mr Mantell said that it would be the greatest cruelty to the race to condone these murders, while the punishment of ringleaders would be kindness to it. Eewi had written the letter instigating the Oakaru murders; he was, therefore, the ringleader, and the singling out and punishing of such as he would achieve the greatest amount of good with least bloodshed. To pardon known criminals, who had not been brought to trial, was to do much harm. We should let the Maoris know what we meant by justice, and not lead them to suppose it consisted in extending a pardon to men we could not get hold of. Mr Eeitall said as the harm was already done by the proclamation, and the Government had given their reasons, the motion should be withdrawn.

Mr Careeton said the country was not in a state of war when these murders were committed. It was a Maori custom to commence war by murder, and they would now understand that because it was their custom their offences would be condoned, and they would repeat such deeds with more freedom. He would be likely to err on the side of mercy himself, but would try to school his feelings so as. to do justice, but he would join Mr He nail in asking that the motion be withdrawn. The Hon. the Native Minister said at the time of the murders the Government knew that the Maoris were about to make an attack, and this was what was meant by his friend Mr Atkinson. Mr Coeenso briefly replied. On the question being put, Mr Phakaztn, who was appointed teller with Mr Coeenso for the eyes, voted with the noes; and the Speaker thereupon ruled it carried, as this informality precluded a division.

At a later period the Hon. the Premier said that he would ou the next day but one move that the motion bo rescinded. The Ministry would not proceed with any other business should this not be dene, but would immediately place their resignations in the hands of his Excellency. Mr Renaee thought that as the motion had been carried through mistake there was no need for this extreme step. Mr Thompson considered it as a direct vote of censure.

The Hon. the Deeencb Minister said that the ■whole tone of the debate was hostile to the Government.

Mr Russell stated that the opposition had left the House to avoid voting against Government. The Hon. the Premier said he would next day (Thursday) move the suspension of the standing orders for the purpose of moving that the motion of the hon. member for Napier be rescinded. The House adjourned at 1 a.m.