PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Hawke's Bay Times, Volume IV, Issue 185, 29 July 1864, Page 5 (Supplement)

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Tuesday, July 12. Resumed dehate on Highways Bill. Mr. M’Leay said the Government had first taken action in the matter of roads at the instigatiod of tho member for Te Ante (Mr. Tiffen). The time had arrived, too, when the people should have the management of roads in their own hands; and therefore the bill before them had been prepared. Tho Government were not wedded to it, and would be glad to receive suggestions from members as to how it could bo improved, but ho might say that hia colleague Mr. Ormond had prepared it carefully. With regard to taxation, since it loomed in the distance, why not meet it at once ? Tho taxation, too, in this instance, was at the request of the people themselves, —it was not forced upon them by the Government; and thorefo.ro it would bo well to let the people have the management of the roads. Should tho bill be brought into operation, it was not likely, as had been hinted by the member for the town, that tho power vested in tho Superintendent would be unfairly used. As to the natives, the time for taxing them had not arrived, nor had that Council power to tax them ; and they must therefore cast aside altogether native lands. Then, as regarded tolls, they had not acted badly in Wellington. Tho natives there now paid tolls. [Mr. Coienso said tho toll gates were placed on tho Crown Lands in Wellington.] Then gates could be erected on Crown Land here, and ho might state that it was tho wish of the Government to make 'all

persons pay who made use of the roads. As to tho clauses in the Bill which gave power to take and sell property, he thought that if tho Bill were once sanctioned, the Supreme Court would recognise it. If the bill Jpassed, he thought it would do away with a great deal of grumbling and save expense ; and" tho sheep-far-mer would also be taxed if he travelled over the road. Mr. Tiffen said as it was perhaps through him the Bill had been introduced, it was only right he should say something. He was decidedly in favor of the Bill. Ho thought, however, there was some mistake in clause 8, for ho took it that no Provincial Act could upset a Crown Grant. With reference to clause 23, he was surprised to hear tho member for Napier (Mr. Colenso) make such an observation, as he must know the Constitution Act. But he would ask if, owing to the difficulty of taxing the natives, they were to stop all improvements ? And then, with reference to illegal squatters, he (Mr. Tiffen) did not think the General Government would allow such a thing when once the war was ended. As to the tax on improvements, he did not see why it should not be so, for those who made them would want roads to bring in their produce. It had been stated also by the member for the Town that the Superintendent would have too much power, but tho Council would have to vote the money, and there would be no great difficulty on that score. The member for Napier also objected to magistrates having seats in the Board ; —this he (Mr. Tiffen), thought was a dig at the Justices ; and he hardly thought it fair that the member should harp on tho power of the J.P.’s, for they had but very little. He hardly thought it an argument, buying land as a speculation in hopes of its rising. He might state that he himself was paying a shilling an acre on the outlay for land bought some time back. He (Mr. Tiffen) than gave instances of the necessity of the Act and shewing that tho public wereanxious to have a voice in the matter of roads. He could see, also, that the Bill had been carefully drawn, and should support it. Mr. Fitzgerald would support the Bill because ho saw the necessity for it. He was glad to see a clause in it, too, that gave power to shut up roads. It was unfair, he thought that tolls should be levied so near the town, for no one could go out for a ride without having to pay toll. Mr. Rhodes thought the remarks already made would have been better if made in Committee. It was a loss of time, as was usually the case. Mr. Ormond said if no member was going to speak, he would proceed to reply. He could not reply to all the arguments raised agrinst the bill but they were not very great points and had escaped his notice. It had been said the time had not arrived for taxation ; and in answer to that he might state that the present bill was not his particular child, but he was a sort of sponsor for it, as he had undertaken to draw it up. There had been nothing said against tho principle of the bill; but it had been said by the member for Napier that it would fall unfairly on some districts. Now he (Mr. Ormond) was under the impression that it might first be brought into play in the Town, at tho Meanee,andat Clive, and he could see no other way giving of tho people to power they wished for. It would bo the duty of theGovcrnmentto see that tho Act was proclaimed in such districts as might require it. Tho Council would have a check then if it“was found to bo wrong. He (Mr. Colenso) supposed they must digest the fact of the natives not paying rates ; but there was one portion of the bill which provided for their being made to pay toll, and he thought the suggestion of putting the toll gate near to town would catch both Maories and everybody else. With respect to the argument of the member for N apier, that the runholder would escape, he might mention that there was only one district that to the north of the Tutaekuri where runs were unsold ; to the south the district was in a great property, and the owners would have to be tho greatest ratepayers under tho provisions of tho Bill, if not chargedfor 40 chains back only. Then, as to improvements, it was proposed to take the acreage value of the land, and the improver would have to pay an assessment on that value, to begin with. It would bo the duty of tho Board to value tho lands of a district. Another point raised was the powers which were to be exercised by tho Superintendent and his Executive ; but he did not think that argument would stand good, for so long as they had a Superintendent, they must give him the power to do or not to do. What Government wished with tolls was to put up bars in such districts where there was most traffic so as to make up enough to keep the roads. Ho differed with tho member for Napier as to the expense, and thought a considerable revenue would bo derived from tho toll bars. He would move that tho bill be read a second time. Mr. Smith seconded the motion. The Council then divided, with the’ following result:— Ayes—l2. Noes—l. Messrs. M’Lean Mr. Colenso Ormond Rhodes Tiffen Curling Kennedy Edwards Richardson Fitzgerald Smith Dolbel Lambert Tho Council then went into committee on the Bill, and after considering some of the clauses the chairman reported progress, and tho Council then adjourned.