PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Hawke's Bay Times, Volume IV, Issue 184, 22 July 1864, Page 1 (Supplement)

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Thursday, July 7. The Council met at 3 p.m. Present—all tbe members. Petition. Mr. Tuke presented a petition from several persons, asking for the road to the Eereru Bush to be made. Some discussion took place on the motion that the petition bo received, as it did not contain the necessary prayer at tbe end, and Mr. Tuke ultimately withdraw it. Mr. Rhodes also presented a petition from the inhabitants of Havelock ; but it was rejected on tbe same grounds as the former one. Reply to his Honor's Address. Mr. RiciiAKDsoK asked for leave to withdraw tbe motion standing in his name, as the address bad already been considered Leave granted. Employment of military Settlers. Mr. Tuke asked the Superintendent “ if it is tbe intention of the Provincial Government to employ tbe Military Settlers on the Roads, and at what rate of pay.” Mr. M’Lean replied that administration of matters connected with the Military Settlers rested with tbe General Government. The Provincial Government bud not power to say what rate of pay the men should receive if employed on the roads, as it was part of the General Government scheme for Military Settlement. Police Act. Mr. Eitzoekald moved for leava to bring in a bill to be called the Police Act. Leave granted, bill brought in, read a first time, and ordered to be printed. Hoad between Greenmeadotes and PuJcelnvu. Mr. Dolbei. moved “that the Provincial Engineer be requested to survey and report upon that portion of road between the Grcenmeadows and Puketapu and whether it would not be advisable that the said portion of Hoad should be diverted as the main road.

—He wished to amend the motion slightly by adding— Mr. Timex objected to the amendment, as a member might have a speech prepared on the motion and have the wind taken out of his sails by amending it. Mr. T)oliu:t, said ho only wished to make it more plain by inserting the words “ leading by Taipo.” Mr. M’Leax saw no difficulty in meeting the views of the member for Mohaka, as far as furnishh'g the report went; but be did not see bow the Government could proclaim it as the main road till the Highways Act was passed. Mr. Tuke seconded the motion. Mr. Colexso was suprised at not bearing more on this subject from His Honor. It was no use their passing resolutions, if they were not carried out. He bad moved a similar Resolution to the present one last session but it bad not been carried out. Mr. M’Leax said be thought the member for Town would find it mentioned in the Engineer’s Eeport. Mr. OoiiEKso would ask “ why the Government opposed or appeared to oppose the motion.” Mr. M’Leax found that such proclamation to divert this line of road could bo made ; but it would be better to wait for Engineers report on the matter. Mr. Coi-Exso should support the motion, as the desirability of the road bad long ago been pointed out by Mr. T. H. Eitzgerald and himself. Mr. Tiffex would say a few words more professionally, perhaps, than*otherwise. It was not for that Council to say it was the best road, so long as they bad an Engineer to report upon it. It might be a Hatter road, but it was subject to injury from freshets in the Tutaekuri. £250 bad already been expended, and they would now be asked, be supposed, to spend £7OO or £BOO more. He thought it belter they should keep the present direct line to Pukctapu. He should oppose the motion, because it infringed on the prerogative of the Superintendent. Mr. Dolbel said be only asked for the road to be diverted on the report of the Engineer. The motion was then put and carried. Military Settlers. Mr. Dolbel asked the Superintendent “ why the Military Settlers enrolled for the Province of Hawke’s Bay have not been located on the reserve made and surveyed for them at Patoka.” Mr. M’Leax said the settling and locating of Military Settlers rested entirely with the General Government. The Provincial Government bad given every assistance in selecting a site, and in making a road to it from town. The principal difficulty was the road, which bo thought might not bo passable during that winter. Mr. M’Lean then read part of the Engineer’s report referring to the matter. Highways Bill. Mr. Obmoxd rose to move the second reading ot the Highways Bill, and in doing so would confine himself to a few words on the principle of the

bill. With respect to District Road Boards, it I was intended they should not bo obligatory, but permissive. There were some clauses in the bill which provided for the taking oflaudfor thopurpose of making roads. He (Mr. Ormond) found that it required an immense machinery in the General Assembly Acts, but lie believed they bad made out a workable.bill without it. If the clauses they had inserted in this measure were not allowed by the Council, they would have to substitute fifty or sixty clauses from the General Assembly Act. There were also some clauses in the bill which empowered the Superintendent to give back laud, which might have been taken for roads that were useless to tho original proprietors. With respect to what he had before stated, as regarded dray wheels, he thought the assessment would not work fairly with all parties, and it was proposed two toll bars should be put up in places where there was the most traffic. He need only say further that the’work of making the bill as practicable as possible, would have to be done in committee, and the Government would be glad to meet with assistance from tho members. Mr. M’Leau seconded the motion. Mr. Colenso asked if the Government were willing to adjourn the debate till tho following Tuesday, which was agreed to. The Council then adjourned.

FRIDAY, S. The Council met at 3 p.m. Present— All the membei's but Major Lambert. JVisio 3fember. The Speaker read a letter announcing the return of Major Lambert as member for the Waipukurau district. Financial Explanation, Mr. M’Lean entered into an explanation of the expenditure during the past year, and read a memorandum from the Provincial Treasurer in reference thereto. Drainage Sill. Mr. M’Lean having obtained leave to bring in a bill to be called the Hawke’s Bay Drainage Act, standing order 27 was suspended, and the bill read a first time, ordered to bo printed, and the second reading made an order of the day for Thursday, the 14th July. Tuesday, Juiyt 12. The Speaker took the chair at 3 p.m. Present, —All the members but Mr. Tuke. He turns and Estimates. Mr. Colenso asked his Honor when the returns called fur and the estimates would be laid on the table. Three weeks of the session had passed, and there were still no Estimates. Mr. M’Lean said the Estimates would be brought down as soon as the Government knew how the Highways Act would operate with regard to them. He (Mr. M’Lean) begged to lay the following paper:—Return of Crown Lands open for sale in the Province of Hawke’s Bay ; i-le-turn of Immigration and Emigration ; a letter from the Inspector of Sheep, as to the advisability of cattle being branded and inspected also; areport from the Provincial Engineer ; and a letter from the Christian Colonisation Association. Mr. Colenso moved that the two first returns be printed, which was agreed to. Sridle trade between Tangoio and Mohalca. Mr. Dolbel to move “that the Provincial Engineer be requested to report upon the Bridle Track between Tangoio and Mohaka, and whether it would not be advisable to abandon the present road leading by the north side of Waipatiki, Waipapa, and Mooangiangi Gully, and lay it out on the south side of the above-mentioned place.” —He might,state that the present road was made under the direction of the first Government, but it was a bad one. He thought it money thrown away, as it was on the wrong side of the gully and led through the bush. Ho believed, also, that it would cost more to keep it in repair for the next 2 years than the making of a new road. Mr. Colenso seconded the motion’; but would rather it had been confined to doing away with the present road, and the choice of another track had been left to the Engineer. Mr. M’Lean said there could be no objection to the report called for. His impression was, however, that a better lino of road would be found two or three miles further inland; but this wouhTno,doubt be embraced in the Engineer’s report. Motion put and agreed to. Deport on Welllnton Acts. Mr. M’Lean obtained leave to postpone the bringing up of the report on these Acts|till Wednesday, the 20th July. Resumed debate on Highways Sill. Mr. Colenso said before ho called their attention to the bill before them, ho should like the Government to explain a few words in the bill, which had an ambiguous meaning, all hough he believed that he clearly enough understood them. The first was the word “ use,” in clause IZv—“ Every person who shall have in his own use.” &c. Did that mean actual and beneficial use, or mere seizin and possession ? The second ?was in Clause XXIII, the term “ Crown Lands did that mean unsold unlet lands, tho bond fide property of the Crown, or did it include runs held on License, both certified and uncertified ? The thirty question was, the meaning of “properties,” in clay sea XXII and XXIII, where “ lands and properties” arc spoken of—did that term mean anything i lore than land? —did it, for instance, include I.buses, fences, and improvements ? Mr, Ormond explained that the word “ use” had been copied from other Acts, and that tho Provincial Law officer had said it mcaut the legal title. The word “properties” also had been taken from other acts, although he, (Mr. O.) did not know what the legal meaning was, but they, the Government, intended it for house property. The term “ Crown Lands” meant all lands, the title of which had not been parted with by the Government. Mr. Colenso said ho thanked tho Government for two things the adjournment of the debate

from last Friday till to-da}', and the clear answer they had just given. He had endeavored to master (he hill; having read it through twice, closely. He thought that taxation was scarcely yet required ; as, from his Honor’s showing, the revenue had largely increased, and was increasing, and the beginning to tax land would surely keep out settlers. He doubted much the wisdom of sue!; a step : especially as the settlers, on whom the main burden would rest of keeping up so manv miles of roads, were lew and scattered ; and the natives, according to the bill, were to be wholly exempt. As, however, he believed that the time for taxing was not far off, —(and, therefore, so far, it was only a matter of time between the Government and himself,) —he would assume that it was now necessary. He believed that Road Acts of dilierent colonies, nay, of widely different parts of the world, had been put under contribution to form the present bill: Victoria, Tasmania, Canada, —to say nothing of our own New Zealand Provinces,—had all been dipped into ; Provinces and Colonies, between which and our own voung and small Province, there was scarcely any parallel whatsoever. The province of Hawke’s Bay, had not their age, richness, or population. He had four principal exceptions to the Bill. 1. The exemption of those who received the greatest benefit from the roads, and who used them the most, runholders and Maories, from paying rates. 2. The tax on improvements. 3. The immense ua-heard-of power given to the Superintendent and his Executive. 4. The mixing of the legal and the administrative, which should bo always separate. Having mentioned them, he would now speak to each particularly, and shew his reasons for objecting. Eirst, then, he saw no reason whatever why the occupiers of Crown Lands should be exempt, (In his so speaking, he hoped that the Government and others, runholders in that Council, would not again speak of him as commencing a crusade against the runholders.) It was a well known fact that the runholders scarcely paid more than a nominal rent (of a farthing or halfpenny per aero per annum) to the Government; and it was just as true that they had so secured their present licensed runs by “spotting,” or buying around them, as well as in many instances getting them certified, as to make them their own,—vastly more so than any common leaseholder; and, bv clause 0 of the bill, a leaseholder having but two years to run would be liable to rates. He knew he should have the old rejoinder, that they (the runholders) had no certainty of tenure, neither would they, if taxed, have any certainty of paying rates. The same argument might equally as well be used by them against their paying any rent at all! Again, he wished the Government to consider well the peculiar position of the country settler, whether small freeholder or leaseholder, in this Province. It so happened that the nmholders were mainly here first. The best lands, and nearest to the port, were taken up by them originally in runs of 10,000 to 30,000 acres. The agriculturalist, or settler, who came after them, was necessitated to go beyond them, some 30 to 40 miles perhaps from flic port ; and although a few acres (comparatively) satisfied him, he was not only obliged to pay rates to maintain many long extra miles of roads, through their (the runholders) holding so much, but to put up with the great distance from a port or market ! That was the case with the licensed runholder. Then, with regard to the Maories: if they, having sold their lands, did not use the roads—if they were now merely living as Maories formerly were ; he would be the last person in that Council, or that Province, to think of taxing them. On the contrary, however, it was a well-known fact that the Maories had plenty of carts, bullock-drays, oxen, and horses ; and of those Maories living near the town, he believed they used the roads more than the settlers living about the same di dance. He felt sure that, of late, more Maori drays than settlers’ drays had come to town. Again: their lands were very greatly improved and increased in value through having made roads running through them. And ho believed that one of the chiefs (Renata) had lately > eceived from the Provincial Treasury the sum of £l2 as a grant in aid towards making a small bridge over a watercourse in the track leading from Napier to his village (Omaha.) Now he (Mr. Colenso) did not find fault with the sum given to that chief for sucli a purpose ; he rather rejoiced at it ; but he did object to such being done and yet to bear they were to be exempted from rates. Especially when he remembered what be had heard from one of the runholders, namely, that those Maories were well known to be receiving a yearly rental of upwards of £IO,OOO for lands leased to Europeans ! much of which had made roads running through them. But the very worst feature of all, under this head of exemption, was that of those illegal squatters, runholders, on Maori lands, who occupied the good lands under positive leases, to the detriment of the Province and of the settler, through which miles of roads had to be made and maintained, and yet were to be exempt from paying rates ! They had, in fact, (on both the main lines of roads—the Middle road and Te Ante road) made and metalled roads to their own doors, for which it seemed others were to be taxed to keep in repair ! So that the illegal squatter—the dishonest, underhanded law-breaker, was to be far better off, and that by act! than the honest, hard-working bona fide settler! Secondly, he greatly feared the Bill would bo a tax upon improvements. Hs feared, notwithstanding what the member for Porangahau had said, that such w-as intended by the Bill. Ho, (Mr. Colenso) could noc read those clauses otherwise.-—in clause 22, it was stated, “ the rates were to bo assessed and levied upon the land on the basis of the annual value of the properties and, in clause 23, it was stated, “ Rates were to be levied upon all lands and properlicsf &c. That surely meant something more than the mere land. That would prove to bo a tax upon improvements; than which nothin'’more hurtful could bo devised, particularly in a new country. And that, of course, would fall heaviest on the small settler and agriculturist. Ho felt assured of that: the small freeholder of 40, 80, or 100 acres, would be found to have largely improved, to the extent of from £5 to £2O per acre, or even more ; while the Runholder, owning from 4,000 to 10,000, or even 20,000 acres of freehold, (of which alone’ he was now sneaking,) would have scarcely expended a

minimum sum per aero. Consequently the tax bo levied would fall heavy on the very class, who, if any, ought to be exempt; the struggling, hardworking settler would pay much, while the large freeholder would pay little. Unless, indeed, the Government were to fall back on the first cost of the Land, ns found in the Land office, after the fashion of the Domesday Hook. And the sure consequence of such a tax would be, to keep back improvements, and to keep out incoming settlers. Thirdly, he considered the unusually great amount of power by this bill given to the Superintendent and his Executive to be most objectionable. He (Mr. Colenso) hoped the Government believed him when he said that lie did not apply it only to them, but to any Government —to any Superintendent, or to any Executive. In the-TTth clause of the bill it was slated —“The Superintendent, with the advice and consent of his Executive Council, may” (not only) “continue, make, and maintain all main roads,” but also, “from time to time make such alterations and deviations therein, and abandon such parts of any of them, as he or the}’ may deem expedient." And, in the 45th clause, “ they are also to have the eame control and management of such and all other main roads in the Province, and to exorcise the same powers as may be possessed by Boards of Wardens.” Now, among those powers by that bill granted to a Board of Wardens, was that of taking any private land for a road—such power he should oe very sorry to see given to a Superintendent and his Executive. He (.Mr. Colenso) had happened to look at one of the Southland Acts, and there he found that such power could only be exercised by the Superintendent and the Provincial Council; and such he believed it to be in other Provinces. lie now came to his fourth objection, namely, the mixing the legal with the administrative, which was always bad, and very sure to clash. He referred them to clause 4-3 of the bill, which said —“ no Resident Magistrate or Justice of the Peace shall be disqualified from acting, as a magistrate, through his being a ratepayer.” Now, if they considered witli that, the fact, that nearly all our country magistrates were runlioldcrs, and also the provision, in schedule 2 of the bill, which gives to each of such persons 5, 6, or 7 votes, they would sec that the largo freeholders would pass what bye-laws they pleased, even to the assessment of rates on improvements, and then themselves sit as magistrates to hear any cases which might arise concerning the breach of those bye-laws ! In fact, at the Board of Wardens they would carry what they please, through the number of their votes ; while on the Bench they would do as they pleased as magistrates. But that was not all, for in clause 11 he found that “ no member of fho Board should be a contractor for any road work, or hold any paid office” ; —of course that further removed any of the small holders or rural class from having anything to do with the working of the Board, as from among such the contractors would come. There were several other matters in the bill which were also, in his opinion, objectionable; but such might (if the bill were otherwise good) be amended in committee. Ho had said that the time had not yet arrived for taxation ; but supposing it had, there would be but one way in which such could be effected, namely, by a fair and equitable taxation. He (Mr. Colenso) was a great believer in the power of (ruth; he ever believed that any and every thing that was not settled truthfully was not done at all, and would have to bo done again. There was a certain Nemesis which ever followed all their doings ; it might be she was leaden-footed and slow, as the ancients said, but, nevertheless, sure. By “a fair and equitable taxation,” he meant that am. lands should bo taxed for roads, whether freehold, leasehold, or licensed, not being bond fide Crown unsold and unlet lands. With their permission, lie would briefly tell them his scheme: —he would propose two schedules or main classes ; —in 1 all productive, and in 2 all unproductive, lands. In (lie first schedule would be placed, first, lands highly productive without outlay or improvement (this would include many licensed runs, intended by this bill to be wholly exempt) ; second, lands productive without outlay ; and third, lands productive on outlay: in the second schedule unproductive lands would be placed somewhat as follows, —those having frontages to roads : then good, middling, inferior, near to roads ; and then those far from roads. By some snch scheme as that they would have fair taxation, without meddling with impi’ovcments. He had said that, bj’ his (Mr. Colenso’s) scheme, the runholder should pay largely for some of his licensed lands ; he would now shew the fairness of it. First, it was a well-known fact (and the runholders themselves had vaunted largely of it,) that nothing was at present so profitable as sheep raising and wool-growing ; such was a perennial stream of wealth to them, far better than a gold mine. Secondly, it was entirely owing to their extensive runs that so many miles of roads were required at this early stage of the colony. Thirdly, their outlay was little on land, —on their licensed runs only one farthing or one halfpenny per annum per acre, while on their large freeholds their outlay in improvements was comparatively very small when compared with that of the small resident freeholder, some of whom had expended from £lO to £2O per acre. He begged them also to consider the position of the freeholder who had purchased several years back, and who had hitherto derived no benefit from his land. He (Mr. Colonsol was one of those. He, with others, had bought lands in 1851- at 10s, per acre, which were still unproductive, and which cost at present, or caused a loss of, 2s. Gd. per acre per annum. There were several known cases of persons losing money by their having purchased land. At present, thc’holders could not sell at any reasonable profit on their outlay ; therefore, to assess all such unproductive and (at present) unsaleable lauds for roads, which, in many cases would be of no available use to some of them, was highly unfair. would briefly call their attention, before lie sat down, to the 10th clause of the bill, which spoke of three-fourths of the voters of any district having power to tax the whole district. At first glance this seemed fair, and so it would bo in an older country, but it would all depend on its size and the situation of its inhabitants. Ho would take two or three instances —1. Clive and suburbs —how would Mr, Gordon faro when assessed by the three-fourths living at the other end ? 2. Ip-

per Puketapu—how would Mr. Lowry fare when assessed by the three-fourths living on the other side of the river, where, too, the road is laid out which he never uses, having cut one himself on his own land in quite another direction ? 3. Lower Puketapu to Grecnmeadows—how would the settlers at RedelyJl'e and Springfield faro when heavily assessed by the three-fourths to maintain the to them useless road over the hills ? 4. I’etane —-how would the few residing in the upper part of that valley fare on being assessed by the three-fourths clustered at the bottom of it ? He might thus quote all their well-known localities, and it would be seen that the three-fourths would by law make the one-fourth pay for a road they scarcely or never used. At Wellington, the Superintendent had recently introduced a bill for the maintenance of roads, but in that bill only those lands were to be taxed which were situate near such roads; that was far more reasonable than (his. Further, he (Mr. Colenso) thought there was much of very questionable law in that bill before them. He doubted whether the Government had power to take freehold property in the summary way laid down in that bill. In clause 33, it was said that the land of an absentee might be taken by the Board, “ after three insertions in a provincial paper and one insertion in the Provincial Gazette,” or, in other words, after about eight or ten days’ notice in the Province! Could any such Acts, based on such law, stand good in the Supreme Court ? The member for Porangahau, who had introduced that bill, knew that in the House of Representatives a year was scarcely considered sufficient for such a purpose. Again, in clause 38, authority was given to the Board “to enter any waste land, to dig metal for roads ;” —dare they enter and dig Maori land for snch a purpose ? If so, they would soon hear from the Colonial Secretary or the AttorneyGeneral. Again, as to tolls. Why were those two districts—Clive Ferry and Mcance Bridge—selected to pay toll ? Why was the expensive bridge at Eparaima, near the residence of the member for Porangahau, omitted ? What had the toll-gate done at Wellington, where the population was tenfold, other than to raise the price of country produce to the consumer ? The same would be the certain result hero. He would ask the Government to consider well whether the collecting of the tolls would not amount to more than the receipts? Ho believed it would. Ho would also ask them bow they intended to levy the toll on the many Maori carts, drays, horses, d'c., which daily came from Pawhakaniro, Omahu, and Pakowhui, and which could well come to town without coining by the bridge ? The ferry at Waitangi had never yet paid its expenses. And there was yet another consideration, namely, that botli of those places so wisely selected to pay toll, ■were” situate on Maori ground! He sincerely hoped ;that the bill as it stood would never become law. If it did, he foresaw plenty of heartburning, plenty of grumbling, plenty of lawsuits, plenty of expense, and plenty of trouble ; but very little good. He should vote against the bill.