PROVINCIAL COUNCIL

Hawke's Bay Times, Volume IV, Issue 183, 15 July 1864, Page 2

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL

Tuesday, July 5. LOUIS’CTL Diet at 3 p.m, X > rCsCTiv ) —" A.ll tl»s members but Mr. Kennedy. Audit Committee. Mr. Colenso moved “ that the names of Messrs. Dolbcl and Richardson be substituted for the name of Mr. Wilkinson, to serve on the select Audit Committee.”—Agreed to. Provincial Accounts. Mr. Colenso asked the government “why the provincial accounts published in April 1863, especially that of the preceding financial year (1862-3) bore the signature of Mr. Janisch, as Provincial Treasurer-that gentleman, at the date of publication, having only been a few days in office.” Mr. M’Lean in reply read a memorandum made by Mr. Janisch, explaining the circumstances. Re-adjustment of Representation. Mr. Colenso moved “ for leave to bring in a Bill to re-adjust and amend the representation of the province in the Provincial Council.”

—ln putting thia motion he did so because the Government had®eclined to bring in a Bill of that nature until after the census was taken. He knew it was more the duty of the Government to bring in bills of that kind than of a private member ; but such a bill was necessary, and he therefore took upon himself to ask leave for it to bo brought in. He had sketched a bill of that kind formerly, and there was no objection offered against its being brought in then: but having accepted the office of Treasurer, and Mr. Newton being returned in his stead, he was unable to proceed with it. The census, ho thought, had nothing to do with the representation of the Province” there was no allusion whatever in the Census

Act to the matter of representation 1 ; but the Constitution Act had a great deal to do with it. Ho questioned whether it was strictly legal to pass measures without proper representation, and in accordance with the meaning of that Act. What would become of the Loan Act, if the provisions of the Constitution Act had not been complied with ? He would call their attention to the fifth clause of that Act, which ran as follows:

"In determining ... the number of members to be elected for each district, regard shall be had to the number of Electors within the same, so that the number of members to be assigned to any one district may bear to the whole number of the members of the Council, as nearly as may be, the same proportion as the number of Electors within the limits of the Province.” —From this it would seem that regard must be had to the number of electors, not to population, so that the Government had signified its intention not to comply with the terms of .the Act. The representation of the Province had not been car-

ried out in its integrity, for he found, by referring to the list of electors, that the number on the Napier roll ■was 211, and that 27 requested to be placed on the roll, mating 238. He had objected to 11 names, leaving, say, 227 electors. They were represented by 5 members, or one to every 45 voters. But how was it with the other districts P Porangahau, which returned one member, had only 15 voters, and no new applications, so that 15 electors at Porangahau had equal rights with 45 electors of Napier. That far-famed place, Waipukurau, returned 2 members, but it should never have sent more than one. There were 41 electors on the roll, and no new applications; and lie had objected to 6 of the 41, which, if valid, would leave only 35 to return 2 members, or 1 for 17| electors, against 45 electors of Napier! He had written a letter to the S. li. Times on the subject of a committee to scrutinize the list of voters, but no one came forward to assist him, with the exception of Mr. Speaker, whom he begged to thank. Mohaka had only 12 electors, but there was one new claimant. Te Aute had G 6 electors, 2 of whom were objected to, and 12 were non-re-sident, which -would leave 52 to elect 2 members, or 1 member for every 26 voters. He thought he had said sufficient to arouse the members of that Council to a just sense of their own rights. In seeking to bring in this bill, he might state that it was not his intention to alter the boundary of the present electoral districts : but what he wanted was to make the representation more equal. He wanted to ask for 2 more members for the town, and, in doing so, he thought he was not asking for more than its due. The total number of electors was 487, which, if divided by, say, 18, would give 1 member to every 27 voters. If the bill were left over to another session, they would probably bo no further then they are at present. As the roll stood, there were 45 electors to each town member, which was unfair, whilst other places returned a member with only 12 or 15. Ho did not bring the Bill forward in a spirit of opposition, and he hoped the Government would see it in its proper light. Mr. Fitzgerald seconded the motion. Mr. M’Lean said an opinion had been expressed by the Government that a measure of that kind could be better prepared when the census had been taken, but, at the same time, they had no objection to the introduction of the present bill. They would, of course , see its provisions on the second reading. Mi\ Colenso, in reply, would just add that it would be an advantage to have two additional members, as they were now obliged to put the names of the same members on several different committees, which was a tax upon their time. The motion was then carried. Protection for the Province. Mr. Colenso moved—- “ That there bo laid on the tabic (if not adverse to the public welfare) all correspondence and all documents (or copies of the same) relative to the necessity for the additional protection lately afforded to this Province at the earnest request of his honor the Superintendent bv the General Government. —He considered the present as an experimentum crucis, or test motion of the honesty of the Provincial Government. He called the earnest attention of the Government and of the Council to what he should lay before them. With the modern French historian Guizot, he would say,— “ Let us have faith in the power of just and simple ideas.” They all knew of a party known as the yiro-maori, orpJtilo-maori party; more correctly the pseudo- maori party. He believed that their eyes were upon that very Council at that time. It.was well-known that ho had always advocated the necessity for the war ; lie feared, if those papers now called for in his motion were refused, he should be obliged to change his political views very much as to the war. Ho had said that he did not believe any real danger from the Maories of this Province had ever existed ; and this he would now prove. At the same time he allowed his Honor might know something of the natives of the Province which he (Mr. C.) knew not—but that knowledge he wished also to know. He had been told a day or two back in that Council by the member for Porangahau (Mr. Ormond) that he “ had not adduced a single argument worthy of 1 attention.” He (Mr. C.) regretted this, but ho was now determined to give the Government such an argument as they must answer ; —at all events, (since the reporters of the Press were there, and would note his argument on this occasion,) the Government should no longer be able to say he had not given them any argument —they might refuse to reply. Now his argument on the present occasion would be properly and logically put, and would be mainly based on three predicates—-

' Mr. M’Lean : It is not the intention of the Government to produce the papers asked for hy the member for Napier, Such would not be for the interests of the Province, and would be adverse to the public interests.

Mr. Colenso : Notwithstanding what the Gohad just said, he wished them to consider well what ho should say.. His argument could not bo pooh-poohed. The onns would rest on the Government. His argument was based on three predicates ; two positives (drawn from the words of the Government), and one negative ; and the only just corollary, as they would see, was, that no real danger had ever existed. Again, he called attention to his Honor’s first address, made there 16 months ago, on assuming the reins of Government. His Honor then said:— “It is satisfactory to be able to T ssure the inhabitants of this Province that there are no questions at issue (with the Natives calculated In any, way to disturb its ‘general tranquillity.”

" Whatever causes may exist to create anxiety in other parts of this Island, we may confidently anticipate a continuance of friendly relations with the natives of Hawke’s Bay; and lam glad to bear my own testimony to the fact, that they are steadily progressing in industrial pursuits, and in the acquisition of property and wealth,'which they cannot afford and do not desire to lose.”

—So that at that time, from his Honor’s own shewing, no danger existed, or was likely to be. In his present address, his Honor said, —*

“It must he a source of great satisfaction to us all to know that this Province has been steadily advancing in material prosperity. * * * * The present state of the Natives within the Province contrasts very favourably with their conduct 15 months ago (!) * * • • a combination of causes which it may be unnecessary to enumerate, and the timely precautions which have been adopted, together with the friendly disposition of most of the resident chiefs, whicli it has been my constant effort to promote, have enabled us to avert the calamities of war, to wbicli all the other Provinces in this Island have been more or less exposed.’’

—And, again, in conclusion, his Honor spoke of “the present satisfactory [state of the relations existing between the European and native races in this Province.” Now that formed his first predicate (as he had said) from his Honor’s ownjwords, —that no danger had or did exist. His second predicate was drawn from the words of the member for Porangahau (Mr. Ormond) who had told that Council, that the General Government had pooh-poohed the demand for troops, and also of the great, the serious difficulty which his Honor had had with the General Government in his seeking for more troops, and that such “were hardly granted;” from this admission he (Mr. C.) drew a further confirmation of his belief, viz., that no real danger had existed. For, if such had really existed, —(as said to be shown by those very papers now refused to be produced,)—the General Government would have immediately complied with the request. His third predicate, he drew in this way, in the form of a syllogism—lf his Honor had known of any real danger, he would have informed the outlying settlers: his Honor never did so : ergo , no real danger existed. From these three predicates he drew his corollary, —that no real danger had ever existed. But further, (and in consequence of what had fallen from the member for To Auto (Mr. Tiffen), who had been absent from the Province for nearly three months, and who had just been told by the Government of some native who had threatened to attack Napier, and therefore he had been brought to believe .danger had existed,) he (Mr. C.) would call their attention to what his Honor had said in his first address as to isolated Maori cases : “ I feel it, however, my duty to deprecate the practice which has been too prevalent in New Zealand, of giving undue prominence to isolated instances of individual misconduct.”

—Now, there had been but two such solitary cases mentioned in the Herald , during the past year; the one, that of the chief Poihipi ; who, at the very time he was traduced in the Herald , was absolutely fighting for us at Maketu! (this foolish conduct of ours had been very properly exposed in the Auckland New Zealand Herald :J tho other was that of Te Rangihiroa, an old man, of whoso sayings no great notice would ever be taken by any one who knew him, —who was said to have written to the Bay of Plenty what he would do to Napier, if lie could gain help from that .quarter. His Honor must well know how Tareha and Renata acted several years ago, when Te Rangihiroa, by a demonstration at Tangoio, endeavored to upset a sale of some land made to his Honor, as Native Land Purchase Commissioner, —they soon sent the old man back to his mountains. He (Mr. C.) thought the more of his now disagreeing with his Honor in these matters, from the fact of their having almost invariably uniformly agreedonMaori subjects. It distressed him much to do so now. He felt that he had a reputation to sustain in such Maori affairs, and he really wished to know the said “ real dangers,” that he might support the Government in their views. Ho wished, he strove hard to be convinced. His Honor had refused to produce those papers. There was yet another way open to his Honor ; —Let him appoint a Secret Committee of two or three members, himself (Mr. C). being one. Such had been done by the General Assembly. He (Mr. C.) might be sworn to sccresy, if his Honor wished it. If he still refused the information sought, he had no other alternative—(believing, as he did, that no real danger had ever existed,)—but, that the troops had been brought here to Napier to benefit contractors.

Mr. Fitzgerald said he was inclined to second the motion, but they were- told by the Government that the production of the papers would be adverse to the public interest, although the motion said “ if not adverse.”

The motion was then put, and lost on division, as follows: Ayes—2. Noes—lo. Messrs. Colenso Messrs. M’Lean, Edwards Ormond Rhodes Fitzgerald Richardson Dolbel Curling Smith Tiffen Tuke Treasury Accounts. Mr. Colenso, according to notice, moved—- “ For an explanation why, in the Treasury accounts lately published, closing the financial year 1863-4, so large an advance as £3015, made to the Provincial Engineer, is therein returned as unaccounted for ; seeing’(as by the same Treasury

account) no less a sum than £lll3 in excess of sums voted, had already been expended by him during the said year.”

—His, (Mr. C’s.) object was to request an explanation why such a departure from precedent had been made with regard to the advances made this year to the Engineer. He would call their attention to the state of things in 1861, when the advances to the Engineer were only £4OO at the end of the financial year ; and, in 1863, only £175. But in 1863, there was more than £3,000 in the hands of the Provincial Engineer unaccounted for. They had been informed already too that £1,013 had been spent on roads, in excess of sums voted, for which ho supposed they would be called upon to pass an Act of indemnity ; nay, they would be asked to pass an Act for the £3,000 in addition. Such a large sum would not have been allowed to remain in the hands of the Engineer by former Superintendents. Mr. Tiffen said he wished the motion had been a shorter one, he should have bad greater pleasure in seconding it. Mr. M’Leav, in reply, read a memorandum made by the Provincial Treasurer, in reference to the excessive expenditure. Ho (Mr. M’L.) might state, also, that the Government thought it would have to contribute to the support of the Colonial Defence Eorce, but that £3,000 of the money which had been spent in that direction had been refunded by the General Government. Ho admitted there had been an excess spent on roads, but the money was absolutely required, especially on those leading to the place where the military settlers were intended to be located. But this might be charged to their share of the three million loan. The advances to the Engineer had been accounted for since the accounts had been published. So that, he did not the excess spent so very great, considering the state of the country.

Mr. Coles’s© said a small item in the receipts and Expenditure had been accounted for, and asked, if such a small item could be so minutely noted, why not a larger one ? He always understood that money should be closed up at the end of the financial year. As to the three million loan, he thought we should come in for but a small share. Ho trusted his Honor did not reckon his chickens before they [were hatched in that direction, especially after what they had seen that day with respect to the loan in the despatch of the Secretary of State. Defence of MohaJca. Mr. Dolbel, pursuant to notice, moved, — “That all correspondence relating to the applicationunade by his honor the Superintendent to Major Whitmore that a certain number of the Colonial Defence Force to be stationed at Mohaka be laid on the table.” Mr. M’Lean said there could bo no objection to the motion, and read a letter from Major Whitmore, stating that 3 men of the Defence Force were stationed at the Mohaka Stockade, to look after the arms, &c., and referring to other measures that had been taken for the defence of the district. The “ Rangoon” Immigrants. Standing Order 27 having been suspended, Mr. Ormond moved—- “ That this Council authorize the Superintendent to take such measures, and to incur such expenses as may be necessary, not exceeding £6OO, to ensure that the immigrants per Rangoon, now in Sydney, may be brought to their destination here with as little delay as practicable.” —"What the Government proposed was to send up qualified instructions to some respectable firm in Sydney, to act on behalf of the Hawke’s Bay Government, and to send the immigrants on by the first favorable opportunity. Mr. M’Lean seconded the motion. Mr. Smith said the Government might be subject to all sorts of actions, both by the passengers and the captain, and they ought to be very careful. Mr. M’Lean said they felt aware of the difficulties, but would take every precaution that the least expense should be incurred. Letters had been received that day from some of the immigrants asking for assistance to bring them on to Napier, or they should be obliged to stay in Sydney. The Rangoon, it appears, was badly found at starting, and the passengers were evidently very much dissatisfied. Mr. Tiefen said he should support the motion, as he thought it their duty to bring the immigrants down here. Ho believed they were a good class, and much wanted. He did not think that all was correct, by the ship having put in to Sydney. Mr. Colenso said it was a subject for grave consideration. Something had happened within the last 24 hours which was allowed to interfere with a deliberative Assembly. Ho supposed all loss or expense would have to be borne by the Province, unless the immigrants chose to enter into fresh arrangements. Then, again, it occurred to him that it would be better the immigrants should arrive here a month later, rather than come here almost in the middle of winter. Besides, they must bo cautious how they acted, or they might bo subject to an action by the captain of the Rangoon, for the Passenger Act in force at home was now very stringent. Seeing that there was no further news than that received by the friends of the immigrants, he should oppose the motion. Mr. Ormond replied to the objections raised, and the motion was then put and agreed to. The Council then adjourned.