PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Hawke's Bay Times, Volume IV, Issue 182, 8 July 1864, Page 5 (Supplement)

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Consideration of Superintendent's Address. {Continuedfronionr issue of Friday last. J Mr. Fitzgeuai.d said there were many things in the address with which he one of which“was steam, and another the loan. He believed that if the latter were judiciously applied, and it must be dealt with by that Council, it wouldjbe beneficial to the Province. There were perhaps faults of omission and commission, but he thought no fault could be found with the speech in the way of caution. The way in which the subject of the plains was treated reminded him of a storypabout a man who had to go over a lot of eggs without breaking any ; but he hoped the Superintendent’s explanations would lead to the smashing of the shell, and thaCthe public might benefit, thereby. The member for the Town, (Mr. Colcnso) had complained that he was unsupported by his colleagesin many in many instances, but he (Mr. F.) had been in the same predicament. Mr. Rhodes said it had stirred up his bile to hear what the member of Napier had said, and he would trv and dispose of some of his statements. Ho would divide what he had to say under seven heads. The first was with regard to the natives. The member for Napier had stated there existed no danger, and that danger had never existed, and he had written north and south to that eircct. This was a very grave statement, and one, lie thought, the member could scarcely believe in himself, with his powers of observation. He (Mr. K.) could tell him that, had there been the means, nine-tenths of the stock in the Province would have been removed, and that 25 per cent loss than the market value of flocks would have been taken imrnany cases. No doubt it might be said this was a panic, but panics did not take place without a cause. Had no preparation been made to meet any emergency, no Defence Force been raised, no troops sent here, no arms sent down, would the natives have been so quiet as they have been ? He did not believe they would. So great, indeed, was the danger that a policeman dare not be sent to a pah, and a summons would be torn up, and treated with contempt. Danger had existed, and did exist, and he should be glad if it did not. A great load would be taken of his mind, when ho found that the was no necessity for the troops in this Province. It was nothing new, however, for the member for Napier to oppose the introduction of troops. Seven or eight years ago, at a meeting held at the Royal Hotel, he remembered that the member for Napier (Mr. Colcnso) had ridiculed the idea of any troops being brought here, saying it would rouse the natives, —that if 200 soldiers came down, the Province would bo in a flame, and he still adhered to the same thing, and believed that the troops were neither useful nor ornamental. He now came to head number 2 —lmmigration, Perhaps it would have been as well if Miss Rye’s name had not been mentioned in the speech, but it was only mentioned in a mild manner. The stream of females into the Province was only intended to be about 40 per annum, he believed, and yet the member for Napier had represented that they would be so many curses. It was well known that female servants were very scarce, and he knew of many persons who had households complaining of the want of them. Good servants were soon looked after, and got married. If women of no character were inclined to come here, they would soon find their way. Female servants were much wanted, but he believed that if, introduced under the management of the Government they would have women sent out without a character, and be thought they should take advantage of Miss Rye’s discrimination. He now came to the third head—the prosperity of the Province. This was a delicate point. It might be shewn that our income equalled our expenditure, but they needed something more than just keeping the roads in repair, and if the Province was to progress at all, they must do it by means of foreign capital. For timber alone he believed that something like £40,000 a year was sent out of the Province, which might be saved, if a tramway were made from Napier to some of the bushes in the interior. If part of the loan were applied to this purpose, the tramway would

repay itself in the course of two or three years. There were still three or four more heads, but he need not take up the time of the Council by going into them minutely. With respect to steam he thought the Government had acted judiciously. Ho quite concurred in what had ben said by the member for the town in regard to a Thistle Act. It was well known they could not make the natives amenable to any ordinance they might make, and he should oppose anything like unequal taxation of Europeans. The statements of the member for Napier, however, did not carry much weight, and his opinions had become jaundiced. He thought this more especially the case, when he as good as told them he was the only fit man in Napier to administer the affairs of the Province.

Mr. M’Lean said ho was not surprised at what had fallen from the member for Napier (Mr. CoIcnso.) It was the same old song ha hud heard repeated over and over again, of the place going to the bad, and any one going back to old dates would find that sucli was the case then. Up to the present time, the same member spoke in the same dismal strain ; he could rerognize no progress of any kind, and it seemed as though he would like the Province to remain a sleepy hollow, as it had elsewhere been called. He, (Mr. M’Jj.), felt himself annoyed when he saw such an expression had been used with regard to the Province, and at the persistence of the member for Napier in expressing himself in language so adverse to the welfare of tho Province. They had not arrived at perfection, he was well aware ; the milleniura had not yet come, but if it came in our time, as predicled by Dr. Gumming, ho supposed they would find tho member for the Town in the opposition, taking as gloomy a view of what was then going on, as he did now, of allairs in this Province. He (Mr. M’L.) himself believed there was not a place in New Zealand in such a healthy and prosperous state as this ; and he really could not imagine how a member of that Council, and also a member of tho House of Representatives, could keep repeating statements to .the contrary, unless the member did not believe what he himself said. To the question why additional troops were stationed in the Province, he might answer that they were deemed necessary by the Government for the preservation of peace But they were told that the sending for these troops would keep people away from the Province. To his mind, however, lie thought people would feel more security by the presence of these troops, and the persons who were afraid of coming because of their presence, could not bo any great accession to the community. Dangers, he would say, had existed—dangers of which the member opposite was not ignorant, il he would only speak his mind. Why single out Hawke’s Bap as not wanting troops during this critical period, and at a time when all the oilier Provinces in this Island needed them, lie could not imagine. He (Mr. M’L.) would have been the last person to ask for troops, if they had not been required. The member for Napier had spoken about the ruin that would occur from the introduction of troops, but ho did not tell them how that ruin was to be brought about. If the member hud studied Adam Smith, he would find that such a conclusion as that could scarcely be arrived at. Ho (Mr. M’L) was proud of being able to procure such assistance during the present time of danger. With regard to the agricultural laborer and small farmer, they were toklby the memberfor Napier that nolhinghad been done for them ; yet that member had done his best to keep out that class of people. Then they' were told that immigration was bad ; in fact, everything was bad, but how the Province was to progress without immigration, it was dilllcult to say, With regard to Miss Bye, a lady whose benevolent object was to promote a healthy stream of female innigration, he hoped they were not so deficient in chivalry as to accuse her of interested motives. Tho lady in question had been allied with Miss Nightingale and other ladies, whose philanthropic feelings and actions during the Crimean war they had all heard of, and he thought the insinuations made use of were unbecoming a member of that council. This province, lie thought, ought to make use of the valuable assistance now offered by Miss Eye, whose sole object was to do good, and who would use every endeavor to promote tho end they had in view. He (Mr. M’L.) attached no importance to what had been said in the local papers of Otago and Canterbury about Miss Rye’s efforts to promote the introduction of female immigrants to those provinces ; for, if some of the females brought out under her auspices had been unfortunate, the fault was not hers, but that of the Government, whose arrangements for receiving them were incomplete; and therefore he thought such remarks unjust and ungenerous. He (Mr. M’L.) would not go through the seven points enumerated by the member for Napier, which were all anti-progossivo, and which seemed to bo his creed. There was one, however, that of the Wellington Debt, which seemed to annoy that member. The Commissioners appoimed had failed in effecting a settlement, certainly, but not from want of time to bestow on the subject. The commissioners had exerted themselves botli here, and at Wellington and Auckland, and had used their best endeavors to settle this vexed question. But what had tho member who complained ever done P Why, all lie had done was confined to writing a few simple lines to the effect that wc could not accede to the unjust demands of Wellington. The member for Porangnhau (Mr. Ormond) had worked out the question thus far, and for any arrangement that might be made, the Province would bo indebted to him for it. With respect to roads, he thought great credit was due to former Governments for what they had done. Ho merely stated in his opening speech that a certain extent of road was open for horse traffic ; ho might certainly have stated what portions had been metalled chain by chain, but that would be found in the Engineer’s report. Ho would admit that the action of tho Government was mentioned ns intended to be confined to the trunk lines, and that branches would bo left mainly to private enterprise, which principle, with slight deviations, had been adhered to. The road to Taupo was at that time considered very important as a trunk lino, and was almost imperatively necessary in a military point of view. He would admit there had been an excess of expenditure upon this road, but it was in a measure forced upon him by circum-

stances. Ho was in hopes, however, that some of the money would be chargeable to a separate account from that of purely Provincial expenditure, and that it would be included in the same category as the £-1,000 for stockades and other purposes, £3,000 of which he had been paid when last in Auckland, and the remaining £I,OOO was now ready to be paid over to the Provincial Government. So that, after all there was nothing so wonderful in the excess of expenditure, and there were responsiblities devolving on a Goverrnment, during a time of war, such as they had passed through, which rendered it necessary that it should take every means in its power for the safety of the people. Then, with respect to steam, the Government found it necessary at the time hostilities commenced in Auckland, to enter into arrangements to secure a fortnightly communication with that Province, as a month was considered too long a time to wait for news from the seat of war. But that arrangement had not been continued to tiie present time, and ho should feel indebted to tho member for Napier if he would make himself better acquainted with the facts before making such reckless assertions. The arrangement to which ho alluded was continued till April last, when the new inter-provincial service commenced and the subsidy then ceased. So particular, indeed, had the Government been that a cheque for £SO drawn by the Provincial Treasurer for that mouth had been stopped at the bank. And tho General Government had behaved well to the Province in this matter by contributing £I,OOO towards this subsidy. Ho (Mr. M’L.) had also done his utmost te obtain assistance from botli Wellington and Auckland, which Provinces were also interested in having speedy com in uni cation during a time of war. The answer from Wellington was unfavorable. The Superintendent of Auckland had promised £3OO, but it was disallowed by his council. The arrangement had not been made without consideration, and if the Government had failed in their efforts to lighten the subsidy, they would still have felt bound to continue the service as long as circumstances demanded. He could enlarge to any extent upon what had fallen from the member for Napier, but it would only take up the time of the Council, and it was, perhaps unnecessary. He could make allowances, too, for people who always looked on the dark side of tilings, and were constantly indulging in gloomy forbodings of evilpersons who could not realize anything of public prosperity. Ho (Mr. M’L.) had always been in favor of progress, and had unceasingly worked in that direction, and would continue so to do. He was happy to say, be could look back with great satisfaction on what he had done since he had been in office.

Mr. OitMosj) thought it was the duty of every member round the table to say something against the deteriorating remarks made by the member for Napier. He (Mr. O.) wished to bear witness to the words which had fallen from that gentleman ;he had said—“ nothing more disastrous could happen to this Province than the introduction of more troops.” [Mr. Coi.knso said he had not made use of such words.] lie (Mr. O.) had taken the words down, and from these words, ho took it that they had degraded themselves as a Government in this matter. He did not think that such a charge would have been made by anv member of that Council ; and he almost believed it impossible that the member opposite entertained such opinions as he had expressed. He could appeal to every member present if danger had not existed, and whether additional troops were not required. It was unfair to ask the Government to publish the positive evidence of the state the Province had been in—a state which would scarcely have been believed by most people had they boon informed of it; and lie felt grieved that one of our fellow settlers should have put forth such a statement. They, as a Government, had to thank the General Government for the timely assistance which had been rendered. Hut it would be unnecessary for him (Mr. O.) to revert to all that had been said by the member for Napier. There was only one point he thought it worth while to refute, —the rest, it would be almost a waste of time to reply to. It had been said the Province was going back, retrograding; but be would draw' their attention to the figures mentioned in the Superintendent’s speech, that the customs revenue had very nearly doubled, and the exports had increased in the same ratio, which could not be disputed. These were tilings ho would invite strangers who intended coming here, to look at. Then with respect to the loan, notwithstanding the efforts of the member opposite to throw a slur on the Government, he could inform him that some of the debentures were already on their way home, and it was useless for him to bring up the question again. He might also state that a Bill would have to be brought down for the appropriation of tlic loan. With regard to Immigration, and the assistance Miss Rye had graciously offered, in the way of introducing female immigrants, he might state that he had heard, during the time the Council had adjourned, persons outside saying it was quite a new feature for the member for the Town to constitute himself a sort of moral broom. It was too bad, when the Government had hoped to make use of the services of a lady who had such large experience and knowledge as Miss Rye, for a member of that Council to almost vilify her. It was not right to take up a journal—a scurrilous j’ournal —to damage the character of a lady in tlio way the member for the Town had done. He (Mr. O.) had been told whilst in Auckland that there were two sides to the question concernin'’ 1 the introduction of females into Otago ; that some of them were almost invaluable as servants. Ho bad been told that Miss Rye had by some means come in contact with the Government, and as a matter of course, some of the journals took up the cudgels in favor of that Government, and to the detriment of Miss Rye. He should have hoped, however, that a member of that Council would have been the last to snap and bark at her after tendering her valuable aid towards so desireable an object. Then with regard to the Wellington debt, he would tell the member opposite a few home truths. All that had been done towards the settlement of that question, was done by himself, and yet the member for Napier had the assurance to say he (Mr. O.) had not time to attend to it. Ho did not generally boast of what ho had done ; but he had effected something towards a settle- % 0

inent whilst in Auckland and also in Wellington when down there. The assistance afforded by the hon. gentleman opposite was worse than useless, lie could get nothing out of that gentleman whilst in Auckland, he was constantly employed in preparing speeches which nobody listened to,|and the aid ho afforded was merely to declaim and rail against Wellington. He (Air. O.) had found out that the member for the Town of Napier was not a straightforward political!, and he thought he must get some security. lie had made several propositions to him,,but could get nodecided opinion or answer in reply, and he looked upon him as utterly useless, and had determined to act in the matter without him.

Air. Tuten said it was only lately he had heard of the extreme danger the Province had been in. One chief iiad actually left the Province to procure adherents for the purpose of attacking Napier. He felt proud that the Superintendent should have been so successful in procuring troops. AVith regard to our prosperity, he thought the imports and exports were a sufficient evidence of that iact ; and in reference to steam communication, he thought the Government had acted rightly, as we were all anxious to know how we stood in relation to the natives. Respecting roads, he regretted that the Council had not had it in their power to sanction the extra expenditure, as ho thought the principle of having to pass an indemnity Bill a bad one. The new road to the Ruataniwha shortened the distance, and was an advantage in that respect. Air. Edwards said ho thought some of the subjects in the Address had been too lightly passed over, but since the explanations entered into by the Superintendent and Air. Ormond he had changed his opinion. It must bo admitted that the presence of troops made us feel more secure aud safe. The various interests had been mentioned in the address as being in a state of prosperity, but they were not so prosperous as he should wish them. The information in the speech with respect to the loan was very scanty, but after what had been said he felt more satisfied. W itli reference to roads, he should like to have seen one made through Petane. He thought it was not at all times advisable to make public all the affairs of the Province with regard to the natives ; and ho was glad to see steam communication kept up. After the ventilation, however, which had been given to the various points of the Address, it was pretty well exhausted, and there remained little or nothing more for him to say. Air. Kexxeui" said although he disagreed with the member lor the town, he thanked him for opening up the discussion. He was, however, pleased with His Honor’s address.

Mr. Riciiakdsox said he had heard the opinions of competent judges as to the feeling that had existed amongst the natives, and he could tell the Council that in his district there had been a feeling of dread amongst the settlers. He was glad | to find that the G overnment had taken subh steps for the protection of the Province. Mr. Ooi/Exso, in reply, said ; The member for Clive (Mr. Rhodes) had repeatedly stated that “great dangers had existed, and did exist.” And this had been asserted over and over, both by his Honor, and by the member for Porangahau, but neither of them had said what that danger was, or where it was. He (Mr. C.), had said, and did again say, ho did not believe it. Ho would again call the attention of the member for Olivo to his Honor’s own words in his two addresses, March, 18G2, and June, ISiH, where the clean contrary is stated of any danger, past or present, existing. Assurances were given to the contrary. If, however, such danger did really exist, how' should it have been met? Not by a few strangers forming a Defence Corps—not by a few additional troops stationed at Napier, but by infusing a selfreliant spirit into the settlers—the Volunteers and Militia of the Province, who were more than enough to cope with the few natives in the Province. Did the member for Clive really' think that it was the arrival of the Defence Corps, or ot the military, which had had such a salutary effect upon the natives ? Not so ; but rather the arming of the Settlers ; the turning-out with a will of the Volunteers and Militia ; this was what they (the natives) looked at. The Member for Clive had also stated that eight years ago, at the first meeting held here ot the It oyal Hotel, for asking for military, he, (Mr. C.), had said the same thing, that “no danger existed.” And again ho would ask, has not the result, has not the experience since, proved the truth of that statement? Would the member for Clive give him permission to state what he had privately told him on that occasion ? Ho repeated the question, and paused for a reply. Mr. Rhodes ; I don’t care anything about it. Mr. Colexso : Very well; now what ho (Mr. C.) wished was, to see the self-reliant spirit fostered and encouraged, so that we might, rely upon ourselves, and so learn to do without corks and bladders. For, say what they might, they would sooner or later have to come to that. As* to the “ material prosperity” as shown by the Customs increase, nothing could bo more fallacious, —for that was plainly owing to two two thingsfirst, the direct import which now obtains, and which wo have been for years seeking: and, second, the great increase of troops, and the Defence Corps. So far as the Revenue was increased by direct import, it was good ; but the total increase should not be relied on, as the troops would not be always here. The member for Clive had said that ho (Mr. C.) spoke of himself as “ the only wise man in Napier” ! and as “ the only one fit to govern”!! Now what lie (Mr. C.)* had said, amounted to this; that lie was for retrenchment—living within one’s means, and not borrowing for any unproductive matters : the present Government, on the contrary, were for goin" recklessly ahead, living beyond their means, and borrowing largely. Perhaps his (Mr. C’s.) views were “conservative, tory, or antiquated ideas,” as bis Honor bad said, or else ugly or old; but such had stood both the test of time and experience. His Honor had also said that he (Mr. C.) had stated ; “ the troops coming hero would be the ruin of the Province,” but ho had never said so. \V hat he did say was, that their coming here on account of “immense dangers, so imminent and threatening,” kept out new settlers and capitalists. He (Mr. C.) did not go so far as some and say it was a scheme on the part of the government to keep out such. Had his