HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Hawke's Bay Times, Volume I, Issue 10, 5 September 1861, Page 6 (Supplement)

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Friday, July 26, Continued. THE STEAM POSTAL SERVICE.

House in committee. Mr. Emm, on rising to move that the report of the select committee on the Steam Postal Service be adopted, said, the first part of the report related to a complete i’e-adjustment of the service, which might require some five or six boats of a different style to thqap now employed, and the committee recommenj|scd that as soon as the company was in a position to undertake this sendee, which would meet the requirements of all the provinces, the House should empower the Government to advance an additional subsidy of £6,000, making, -with the £IO,OOO at present paid and £14,000 paid by the Home Government, a sum of £30,000, for which the might get first rate service. 'The whole service rested upon a contract between the Home Government and the original Pearson’s Company, to which the Home Government paid £14,000, and, in case anything should happen to that arrangement, it was desirable not to lose the benefit of that £14,000. It had been admitted by most members that the present arrangements were unsatisfactory to this portion of the country', and that it was desirable it should be remodelled if it could be done with no great expense to the country. The committee proposed, in the first place, to Jo what he was astonished the Government had not done before: by the original contract they were entitled to alter the ports between which the steamer should run. Taking advantage of this, the committee proposed (as a temporary arrangement) to perform the service with three boats, transferring to Auckland the boat now running to Nelson, and leaving the inter-provincial service to he performed by the Airedale. That being within the provisions of the original contract would require no subsidy ; and, if the company should bo willing to keep on the steamer between Sydney and Nelson (as they had declared they would) the committee recommended £2,500 to be appropriated for that purpose, expecting the boat to run as far as Wellington, and if the company would run that boat through to Otago, the Auckland boat might stop at Napier and the Airedale stop at Nelson. The actual service would thus he as present, with the addition of a boat to Auckland and Napier. Mr. Saunders said it was just such a report that might have been expected from a committee composed of so many Auckland members and so few from Nelson which made it more a matter of contest. He was against sanctioning a larger expenditure, it would be better to do away with the steamer than create a greater expenditure. The inter-provincial service should be done by the provinces themselves, but so long as the present service was continued Nelson might well claim to be the first port of entry, on account of its central position.

Dr. M a>'Eo had not had much time to look over tljG report, but fvS tbo ports in tbo colo* ny, he*agreed with the hon. member for Waimea, that kelson, owing to its central position, had been pointed out by nature, under the present postal service, for a direct steamer; unless they extended the present arrangements, it must bo so. If they could afford it, it would bo best to have , three itoarn era, one running at each extremity of the colony, and another in the centre. It appeared to him that the main steamer would always make for Cook Strait, as being the most central point of the colony. He was not prepared to say that Nelson should in such case' be the first port

of entry. His opinion was that it should he Queen Charlotte’s Sound, or Bliud Bay, as the water was smooth; it afforded shelter and the stream was not rapid. Though he should be perfectly satisfied if the steamer touched first at Nelson, yet he thought the Sound offered greater facilities than Nelson does. Before very long she would be in a position to offer coal at a cheaper rate than it could be procured now, and in other ways offer greater facilities for steamers than any other port in New Zealand. He found that there was a proposition for two boats ; one for Cook Strait, and another for Auckland. This he thought could not be carried out at a less expense than £6,000 ; he found that £2,500 was the sum put down, and he wanted to know how they would accomplish this for £2,500. In speaking of the two boats, he thought the Cook Strait boat would pay the company best, owing to the want of competition, and that the boat from Auckland to Sydney would require a high rate of subsidy. The scheme before the Committee would not work. They could not adopt it without endangering the original contract.

Mr. M’ Clash an regretted that such a report should be brought up. Mr. Wakd : If the service was performed in accordance with that report, there would be no time lor making out delay, or if there was delav anywhere it would be taken out of the time of Otago. It was as plain as two and two make four, that under these circumstances it proposed a benefit to Auckland, but at the same time it would prove a very great detriment to the South. Mr. Stafford trusted the Committee would hardly recommend the adoption of the report. They expected the Company to do an extra amount of work by running many additional miles in getting to these ports, without any extra remuneration ; if they could be forced to do it, well and good, but he scarcely believed they would without. Mr. Domett was happy to think that the report would come to nothing. He was glad to see so many hon. members opposed to it. It required an extra boat for the North and an extra boat for the South. They would be compelled to have more powerful boats, which would run nine or ten miles an hour. Would the company perform this extra service for the sum set down by the committee P The company would look after their own interest.

Mr. O’Neill thought the fairest way to look at this question was by a composition of the revenues derived from the Post Office and the Customs. Nelson’s contribution to the revenue was £14,000, while Auckland contributed £61,000. Nelson had a direct steam communication, while Auckland had not. Seeing the position of this province as compared with others, especially' at the present crisis of affairs, when war was pending, it being the seat of Government and the capital of New Zealand, Auckland ought to have a direct steamer to New South Wales.

Dr. Peatiierston said according to the Estimates and the incoming revenue, he thought it was impossible to devote any further sum to postal communication. Mr. Wood contended that Auckland had not been benefited by the steam ari’angements at all. That in point of fact, so far as Auckland was concerned, she would have been far better without; in regard to receiving her letters, she had been in a worse position than any other province in New Zealand. If Auckland withdrew her contribution to the present system, she would be able to receive her letters quicker by provincial arrangements. But he would ask the committee if this was a provincial question ? Were they to consider the particular interest of a particular province? Was it not a question for the whole of New Zealand ? If so, why was it that the most important provinces, which had been selected as the seat of Government, should be last of all to receive postal communication. Was it to be said that his Excellency the Governor was not to reeeieve his despatches as early as letters were received in the other provinces ? Being, then, the seat of Government in the colony, and at the same time the principal port of commerce, ho did say' that it was extremely unfair for her to be deprived of this advantage, to which she is so justly entitled. Mr. Dick was prepared to enter the lists with the honourable member as to which was the most important province. He was inclined to think the province of Otago was most important [laughter] ; but that was not the question at present. Tt had been remarked that Auckland was the last place to receive its mails ; while, on (he contrary, Otago was the last place. The hon. member for Parnell said that Auckland had received her mails on the 27th and 28th, whereas Otago had been kept out of her mails till the 2nd or 4th of the month. He should suggest that wo beg off from the contract altogether as unsatisfactory to all the provinces in New Zealand. Even Nelson now turned round and grumbled at the proposed new arrangement.

Mr. Mantell said hon. members had their opinions about steamers, and the importance of their various provinces. Now he thought his opinions were the bes as regarded everythin:* which related to New Zealand gcnerrally [laughter]. His opinion was that the steamers should touch at the Bluff first, in order to give arrivals the best indication of the country [laughter].

Mr. Kettle alluded to his colleague from Otago having taken a different view of the proposed arrangement to that which he (Mr. K.) had done. The hon. member also alluded to the number of difficulties the committee had to meet. In considering Auckland, they had to look at the large amount which she contributed to the steam postal subsidy ; the much greater number of her population ; and the very great importance attending communications from the Imperial Government relative to the present state of affairs, and the carrying on of military operations. There was another reason which appeared not to have been understood by any of the previous speakers, and that was the very great uncertainty of the arrival of steamers in the Manukau harbour.

Mr. Russell said lie did not suppose, -judging from the tone and temper of the debate, that" the Committee's report would be canned to night. One hon. ; member opposed it on account of the oompotioh of the committee [bear, Lcarl. .. Another spoke against the nature of the report.’ Another gentlemen expressed his-intention of voting against

it because the present arrangement suits his province best [hear,hear]. Another would oppose it the report because it would interfere with the importation of horses and cattle into the middle Island [laughter]. Were they to treat the arrival of the mails as a minor matter? Were they not called upon to provide a service for the whole colony, or one which would meet the requirements of one ? He would ask the hon, member for the Middle Island whether they thought it was fair for them to put their hands into “our” pockets to pay for a subsidy for their own benefit ? He agreed with the position taken up by his friend the Colonial Treasurer, that it would be better for Auckland to be without the steam postal service altogether if they were to be subject to a scheme only adapted to meet the conveniences of the Middle Island.

Mr. Weld cordially agreed with the hon. member with regard to the very great injustice which was done to Auckland by the alteration of the steam postal service last session. It was something more than that ; the Government of this colony was put in a very false position by it [hear, hear]. It was certainly a monstrous thing that the Governor of the country should be deprived from receiving his despatches till after gentlemen had received their private letters and other communications in many parts of New Zealand [hear, hear]. No workable plan had been submitted which would put Auckland in the same position as she was, and, until that was done, he should bo happy in voting for the old arrangement which was broken np last year.

Mr. Fox said his own view with regard to the steam contract was, that it was a very unfortunate arrangement for New Zealand [[hear, hear]. The gentleman who had the management of tills business seems to have fallen into the bargain too hastily. Certain terms were offered to him, and he jumped at them, and accepted them without having by competition, tried the market of Sydney, or any of the other colonics [hear, hear]. He believed it would be much better for the colony, even now !if they would get the service out of the hands of the Coleman Company, if they would agree to go out of the market They would be able to make much better terms, but in doing so, he admitted, they would probably lose the £14,000 paid by the Imperial Government [hear, hear] They could get an arrangement which would give more satisfaction to the colony if they could go into the market with their money. Having alluded to the numerous calls which would be made on the Government on account of a war, which might last for ten years, he was afraid they would not be in a position to give any very great extra assistance to the steam service.

Mr. Ward spoke at considerable length in justification of the report of last session. Mr. Russell moved as an amendment to the adopton of the report, That until bettor arrangements can be made, the Government can be authorised to revert to the arrangements existing before the report of the steam postal committee of last session, and to provide a steamer direct to Auckland and Napier. Mr. Dick moved as an amendment, That until arrangements can bo made to carry out that part of the report which refers to “ Time Table No. 1,” the steam postal service be allowed to remain as at present.

Mr. Stafford referred to the charges made by the last speaker against the conduct of the Government with reference to the steam business of that session. He could recollect the circumstance. It resulted from this fact. The members of the Government were divided in their opinions on this matter. The late Colonial Treasurer, the member for New Plymouth, and he (Mr. Stafford) divided on opposite sides of the house, and the hon. member had imputed a great deal to this. Yet what did they see on the present occasion ? Why the Native Minister would vote against the report. The Colonial Treasurer thought it was a very fair one. The Colonial Secretary left us in doubt as to what his views were on the present report. The hon. member for the northern division was totally si ent. on this, as he was on all other questions He appeared to adhere to the maxim that if speech w,.s silver, silence was gold [laughter]. He contended that unless they could propose some scheme which would perform the service cheaper and bettor than it is done now, they would fail in making better arrangements than the present, which takes nothing from the revenue; one towards which the colony does not pay one single shilling. What the colony did pay for was, for the provincial service, £IO,OOO, but for the mails between Australia and New Zealand, the colony does not pay one nyMr. Williamson said he had been very sony to hear the remarks of the hon. member for Cheviot when he said that the report of last session was a blow levelled at the General Government and at Auckland. It was no such thing. The Province of Auckland was not prepared to throw on the whole colony a burden for its own benefit alone but Auckland was prepared to pay its share. He had always maintained that the arrangement made by Mr. Sewell was the best that could be made, that when only cue steamer ran, a central portion of the colony should be chosen for it to run to, and the mails be distributed by the inter-provincial service He concurred with the first proposition of the report. It coincided almost entirely with an arrangement he had proposed to the company last year, and if they could get the Provincial Government to agree to vote a sufficient subsidy to induce the Company to take up that service, the colony would be better served than it ever had been. '

Mr. Firth said he had been unwilling to argue this question on purely provincial grounds. Auckland, as the eapital and seat of Government, did not wish to deprive the smaller communities of their reasonable advantages, but only asked fair play, TTe wnul d tell the hon. member for D unedin (M r. D ick) that long before Otago thought of steam Auckland paid for her own steamer; and though this Province might bo contemptible in the eyes of southern friends he was prepared to stand by it and demand for it a fair share of what it paid for.

Mr. PIUSSEII obtained permission to withdraw his amendment in favor of Mr. Ward’s.

Mr. Domf.tt moved, That a subsidy be given for a direct steamer between Sydney, Auckland, and Napier, and that the contribution paid by the several Governments of Canterbury and Otago be borne

on the general estimates of the colony. Whole report put and negatived Mr. Ward’s amendment put against Mr. Domett’s

Mr. Ward’s adopted. Separate resolution, moved by Mr. Waed, That this committee strongly recommend that the Steam Company be requested to provide, as soon as possible, for the various services subsidized by the colony, steamers being better fitted for the passenger traffic than those at present employed. Mr. Dick moved as an amendmend, that the following words be added:—“That the General Government shall pay £2,000 towards carrying out a direct line of communication between Melbourne Otago and Canterbury.” Question put. House divided on Mr. Dick's amendment.

Ayes:—Messrs. A. Richmond, Saunders, Curtis, Wilson, M’Glashan, Butler, Williamson, Cookson, Rowley, Kettle, Mantell, Domett, Fraser, Dick, (teller)—U. Noes: —Messrs. O’Neill, Ormond, Munro, Graham, Ward, O’Rorke, Brandon, J. C. Richmond, Atkinson, Fitzherbert, Russell, Carter, Firth, W. Taylor, G. Graham, Mason, Fox, Rhodes, C Taylor, Speaker, Munro, Jollie, C. W. Richmond, Harrison, Wood, Eyes (teller) —25, - f Dr Moneo moved that the contract steamers" should be required on their passage through Cook’s Strait to call at Picton, weather permitting. The hon. member supported this on two grounds, first that it would be a great accommodation to the inhabitants of Picton; second, because it could be done without adding any additional expense to the colony. The only fatal point against the motion was that it would entail the loss of a day by the steamer if she called at this port; and as that time could not be spared without serious inconvenience and danger of disarrangement, Dr. Monro obtained permission to withdraw his motion. House resumed. Mr. Ward’s resolutions were reported to the house and adopted. On motion of Air. Brandon, the report on the Law Practitioner’s Bill was adopted. Bill certified and passed.