ELECTION OF A MEMBER FOR THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Hawke's Bay Times, Volume I, Issue 1, 4 July 1861, Page 2

ELECTION OF A MEMBER FOR THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

THE NOMINATION Took place on Thursday last in front of the Council Chambers. There was a goodly number of electors present. Mr. J. Tucker was proposed by Mr. A. Kennedy, and seconded by Mr. j. J. Kelly ; Mr. J. B. Ferguson was proprosed by Mr. R. M. Sheet, and was seconded by Mr. M. Mc.Nalty ; Mr. 11. B. Sealy was proposed by Mr. T. Edwards, and seconded by Mr. John Begg ; and Mr. Wm. Colenso was proposed by Mr. S. Fittall, and was seconded by Mr. P. Searle. The electors were addressed at some length hy the diilerent candidates with the exception of Mr. Colenso who was not present. As we give, below, an account of a public meeting held at the Council Chambers on Saturday last, at which the candidates again expressed their opinions, a lengthened report of the speeches is unnecessary. At the conclusion of the addresses, the Returning Oliieer called for a show of hands, which was declared to be in favor of Mr. Colenso. Mr. Tucker demanded a poll. PUBLIC MEETING. According to printed advertisement, a Public Meeting was hold in the Provincial Council Chamber, on Saturday evening at 7 o’clock, which was numerously attended. Mr. Me NX proposed that Capt. Curling should take the chair. This Captain Curling declined, owing to his being returning officer. lie thought that, one of the electors who had convened the meeting should take the chair. Mr. Sf.AT.V begged in propose m gentleman, we]] known to all, and who was not bound to any particular political party. He would propose that J. N. Wilson, Esq., do lake (ho chair. Mr. Wilson, in taking the chair, hoped that (ho electors would make his duties as light as possible by preserving order and giving the different speak-

crs affair liearing, and would request one of the caiiultliilu6 io atlurucjs iliciu. t Amidst loud applause, Mr. Colenso rose lo f speak, lie had not understood the advertisement f in (lie light (ho chairman had put ](, and had not v intended to be present to address the electors, as / they all knew his sentiments. As several of the f: electors of the town and neighbourhood had asked him to come forward ho had complied, lithe ‘i chairman ruled that ho should address the electors " he should be willing to comply. Upon the Chair- f man calling upon him (o do so, he (Mr. C.) ad- i dressed the meeting as follows. Men of Napier,— ' "1 he chairman calls on me to speak. What shall b 1 say ? You have heard me fully before. 1 gave 1 you my sentiments in full on the waggon, when V lour candidates addressed you. The opinions then s' held by mo 1 still stand to. hut, Men of Napier, i like all of you, I too am born of a woman. I have ‘ been beaten twice when 1 responded to your calls, J and each time wrongfully. My feelings were hi- fl jured, and in consequence I said I would never I stand before you again, hut I have gone in and ■ out before you for years, and am identified with I yon ; and now that you have called upon mo, L 1 shall not draw back. Men of Napier, if it is your ' will to elect me, it is ivell ; —if Mr. Tucker, or Mr. Scaly, it is also well. Last time when 1 stood be- * lore yon, I did sy because I did not consider Mr.Stark a fit man to represent you. hut 1 did not solicit a single vote, —1 did not ask even my friends ( to do so. Mon of Napier,—l wished to keep up . steam to full volume, and I am able to stand up { for my opinions before any man or body of men \ in New Zealand. J Veil I betwixt Mr. Tucker, or Mr. Scaly, and myself, on the topics of the day, | there is very little difference of opinion. As far as ! Mr. Scaly is concerned, we agree generally, although 1 have not heard his opinion on the Maori ! question ; and had this election been for the Provincial Council, I woidd have resigned in his favor. hut when I know the man, and consider the place he has to go to, I do not think Mr. Sealy t could represent you properly. It calls to mind ; my reading of Mr. Richmond’s reply to a gentle- ; man who told him he had been rather nervous when he made that excellent speech of liis in the House. I “ Yes,” said he, 1 was nervous. It was my maiden I speech ; and it requires a man of nerve to talk be- I fore the House of Representatives.” Yes! Men i of Napier, it requires a man of nerve to bo your \ representative, and also a man of great general in- j formation. I have spoken often before you, and feel quite at home among you, and I have often spoken and preached before many higher and * more influential persons than arc hero present, and could speak before the Queen herself, if your interests demanded it. I have said it needs’a man ' of general information ; not a man of cramped \ views. On provincial subjects Mr. Sealy might j servo you as well as I could ; but, on subjects con- i nected with New Zealand generally, 1 will not yield to any man. I would now call your alien- I tion to a subject harped upon by both Mr. Scaly \ and mysell—that is, he and 1 have been harping on the same string, namely, the Wellington debt ; and 1 would fell Ur. I'catiierston to his face (hat, if he were here and stood in my place, he would , do as I do, repudiate it altogether. In a paper of ; the 22nd of May, Mr. Woodward slates the bak..., c j ol interest due to be £IO,OOO, towards the lie, ;ida- | Lion ol which £2,500 had been received for interest I and £3,000 for principal. Now, when I come to i see this, 1 say, if the General Government give [ these sums without consulting us, that it seems j very little use for any of us, either Mr. Tucker, | Mr. Scaly, or myself trying to stand against them. [ Hut still I say something may bo effected ; all I ; would ask is—fair play and no favor. Now, with / regard to any other question you may put, I am | ready to answer. If you have a doubt— here l am. | If any man is wavering, I say to that man, don’t I give me your vote. Men of Napier, when Stark S left, Mr. Tucker called upon me, to ask me if he j should stand. 1 then advised him to find out the | number of voters in his favor, for 1 believed that j another Waipukurau man would not succeed. 1 ] do not say this out of any personal feeling against, Air. Tucker, but because the very fact of going to Waipukurau for a member was virtually saying—that we had not a fit man in Napier. 1 then said, “ I shall not stand, because I have been twice thrown out wrongfully. The first time I was asked to come forward, and also the second time, and that, too, after 1 had brought about the retrenchment in the Provincial Council. Mr. Ormond and 1 laid our heads together, reduced the number of offices, carried our views out, and after that was effected, the electors turned mo out. Rut if they asked me by requisition ? Oh ! I have a wholesome dread of requisitions. To the gentlemen presenting it, I will bow and say, Tena ra koe, or something to the same effect, and beg to decline. I Rut if any gentlemen will propose and second me, I will then stand.” Now, gentlemen, I have made i a clean breast of it. For a week I was laid up, having been thrown from my horse, and nearly ) killed. To the gentlemen who called on me 1 j stated what I have now mentioned. On Tuesday, ■ 1 sent for Mr. Wood, and told him the same. I also told Mr. Fittall the same. I have no ambition to go to Auckland. 1 would as soon thrust my hand into a nest of hornets. Rut if you elect me, then I will go ; for, men of Napier, wherever duly calls—(here is a man’s place. Concerning the Maori war and steam, 1 will not take up the time of the meeting. The Herald contains my i opinions on these subjects. I will now ask any i gentleman to come forward and ask me questions j for the good of the community. Meantime, 1 thank you for your patience. Mr. Smith : If Mr. Colenso is returned, what ; will he do with regard to those who have lately broken the law, by taking or renting lands ? Ido not say whether it is a good or a bad law. Rut will Mr. Colenso try to bring these cases up, and make these parties’ pay for breaking the law ? (Hear, hear.) Mr. Colenso : Well. Mr. Chairman, I think Air. Smith has given mo the hardest nut in his basket to crack ! Mr. Smith knows my opinion already nnent that*Jaw, and the breach of (hat law. Last niidit, I saw bv an A nek land paper that the petition of Council forwarded through Mr. Ormond was already under consideration of the House. Mr. Weld had entered on the subject, and said something must be done. 1 have no doubt it will be duly considered. I have also heard that it is the opinion of gentlemen of the law across the

water that the breach of that law is not punishable according to the Treaty of Waitnngi. I would, however, say, that if an amelioration of the present law could be effected, so that natives and whites could live amicably together, it would be extremely desirable. But if you want me to enter into the matter, let a meeting be called, and some resolution come to on this subject, and then I will he prepared to speak. Mr. Tkipuook; Mr. Chairman, will you permit mo to say that I think that Mr. Smith’s question has not boon properly answered by Mr. Colenso. (Here a slight interruption occurred.) Mr. Colenso still remaining seated, The Cnaikman' asked him if ho had no answer to give, lie (the chairman) could not force an answer. Mr. Colenso still remaining silent, Mr. Timphook begged to put the question in a succinct form. Sir, is it your intention to support or oppose the leasing of land from Maories ? Mr. Colenso ; Speaking generally, though concisely, to oppose the system. Mr. Tripuook : Will you, sir, pledge yourself to this course ? Mr. Colenso : I pledge myself to nothing,— (Great applause.) The Chairman then proceeded to call on Mr. Scaly to come forward and address the meeting; and thought that as there seemed to be a general impression that there was some slight misunderstanding betwixt him and Mr. Tucker, -he (the Chairman) would hint to Mr. Scaly that he ought first of all to do away with that impression, and explain matters to the meeting. Mr. Sealy then came forward, and said : Gentlemen, the chairman says that there is something betwixt Mr. Tucker and myself, and advises me to explain. Gentlemen, I protest against the chairman’s interference. I think it very unfair that he should suggest to me any line of speaking with regard to either Mr. Tucker or myself. It is very unjust and extremely unfair of him, and I decline going into the matter. But, gentlemen, waiving for the present the subject mentioned by the chairman, I will at once, and without any hesitation, answer the question last put to Mr, Colenso ; I will oppose the leasing of Maori lands against law. I do not approve of a few men—Maori men it may be—absorbing the land. But, further, I think that, according to the Treaty of Waitangi, the Government has a right to object to the occupation of native lands ; for where is the revenue to come from for the construction of roads and bridges ? how are we to open up the country ? Gentlemen, I will oppose this system of leasing ; I am thoroughly against it. Now, with regard to Mr. Tucker and myself. I have no personal feeling against Mr. Tucker ; I came forward to oppose him as a town member against a country settler, under the impression that Mr. Colenso had retired from the held. When opposing Mr. Stark, I met Mr. Tucker some time ago, and asked him if he was willing to come forward. He replied, No, he would not; but if brought forward he would stand. Seeing he had thus declined, I did not consider myself further pledged in any way to Mr. Tucker ; and when Mr. Stark resigned, and I was asked to eovne forward, I did so, not thinking that I was at all acting inconsistently, as I considered that Mr. Tinker had, when declining to come forward, released me from further supporting him. I think Mr. Tucker will bear me out in this statement, which contains the facts of the case.—[Mr. Tucker: I shall have a different story to tell.]—Personally, I have a great respect for Mr. Tucker; but he is a country seftlcr, and as such, and as a run-holder, I thought myself fully entitled to stand against him for the representation of the Province. Now that Mr. Colenso has come forward, which I did not expect, and did not know of, till I saw it on the printed placards. And with regard to these printed placards, which I have seen stuck up on the walls, 1 would say that in politics or elections there is a bar that should not be passed. I do not wish to go into personal matters ; but in these placards I have seen a false and gross statement made against myself. I do not know whether it was done with Mr. Colenso’s consent or not, but his supporters must answer for it; and Mr. Pitt-all has passed the limit of courtesy, and by indulging in personal remarks, has passed, the bar which ought to be observed. However, I have put the matter into Mr. Allen’s hands, and that gentleman and the police will arrange the affair.— (Hisses and laughter.) Gentlemen, Mr. Colenso has hinted that I am no orator ; but I think I shall pass muster. I can generally express my meaning; and in the House or out of the House, I am convinced I could say all that was absolutely necessary. Matters to be brought before the House are generally discussed by the members and settled as much out of the House as in it. It is much the same in Auckland as with our own Provincial Council; matters arc talked over, settled, and arranged before going into the House, and that’s the way the thing’s done.— (Voice : Oh ! We’re getting a peep behind the scenes, are we ? Oh ! &auk you.)—Now, I would say that I do not Sank Mr. Colenso would have weight or influence mi the House of Representatives ; — (Voice: How’s that.) —for, looking at the printed placard, I read, first, “ War to the knife against the Wellington blood-suckers.” Now, I may mention that I was a separatist two years before Mr. Colenso appeared in the field, or rather before he had mode up his mind. At the meeting on February 6th, 1858, at which were present Mr. Triphook, Mr. Fitzgerald, and many others, and when Captain Carter was in the chair, Mr. Colenso was a separatist and he was not a separatist; for lie thought it was not a proper time to demand it. He asked the people to pause before finally severing the chain, the links of which could never be reunited, and to hesitate oeiure 11 if.s jimmy umSavu tlio Rubicon, doubting about the risk wo ran, &c. He was for reform, I was for separation. Had I and others feared the risk, wo should not have had separation yet. Mr. Colenso was converted in September, 1858. But, gentlemen, during these six months we had been working hard, whilst Mr. Colenso hung back. I nave from the very first opposed the Wellington debt, and the seizing of the land revenue.— (Voice : What about Stokes paper.)—Weil, I did write for ■Stokes’ paper once, but that is nothin to the point. The next thing on Mr. Oolenso’s placard is, “War, to the knife with the missionary party. Now, although I am not favourable to the missionary party with regard to the war. T npnstion

very much whether Mr. Colenso could with any propriety address himself in opposition to the Bishop and missionary party. —(Mr. Muxs : How’s that JO —-well, it is. not requisite I should allude to his disqualifications ; but 1 am certain he would not get a hearing.—(Voice : Why ?) —Because he has been one of their body himself.—(Voice ; That’s no fault: he will know"all their tricks.) —It is also on the placard—war to the rebel Maories. Now, I think that the missionaries have gone a good deal out of their way, still I would not ery down the whole body on that account. —(Voice : You admire the missionaries generally, then.) — I can’t say I do particularly, although we must admit they have done a deal of good. —(Voice: Oh ! and will the good counterbalance the evil ?) Maori leases I have mentioned. Upon' waste lands Mr. Colenso and T are alike agreed. Next, steam. We ought to have steam, more especially during the war, as we are within a few days’ march of the Waikato country, and 300 troops are not sufficient for the defence of this place.—(Voice: Where’s the militia ?) —Yes ; whore arc the militia ?—(Mr. Collins : What about protection for the inland settlers?) —Certainly they ought to have protection, although it would be very unfair for these settlers, whose policy it is to keep away population by their occupation of large tracts of land, to expect all the troops to be sent to protect them. Still, they ought to have protection.— (Voice: What about your office of Inspector of Schools?—Voice: And your other little billet ?) Oh! Mr. Lyndon would fill these offices till my return, at my expense.—(Voice; If Mr. Lyndon is capable of filling these offices, why not let him hold them permanently ?) —I am not prepared to give them up.—(Mr. Ferrers : How is it you did not come forward before, and now that you have got a government billet, you come forward as our member ?) —I have been 18 mouth's in office, and have never asked leave of absence. Gentlemen, have you any questions to ask me ?—(Voice : Will y°P pledge yourself to men or to measures ?)- — This is a silly question ; but I will reply. . In all material matters I will stick to the present ministry, because I think they deserve our support, and would try and pull along with them ; and also I would try to accommodate myself to the other member, so that we two might pull in the same boat. I think, gentlemen, I have answered you on all subjects, and beg tp thank you for your attention. Mr. Colenso : May I be allowed to speak ? The Chairman : Yes, but be brief, as time is fleeting. Mr. Colenso : Sir, I have to remark that Mr. Sealy has spoken with exceedingly bad taste. Ho has charged me with what was on the placard. Sir, I knew nothing of it; Mr. Fit tall did not ask me. I saw it this morning when I came into town ; and have only to add that, had I seen it in manuscript, T rroiilcl have hindcrc-cl it> printed. I deny having any hand in it. Mr. Sealy also charges things against me that happened years ago. I have again and again publicly apologised for my indecision as to separation ; and I appeal to you, gentlemen, if, when a man public!v apologises for an error, that error should be always thrown in his face. I have also to ask Mr. Sealy, Did you vote for or against Stark ? —(Mr. Sealy: No.)—Well, then, I say that Mr. Scaly did not do his duty ; for if lie did not wish to vote for Stark, he ought to have voted against him. I repeat, he did not do his duly.—(Hear, hear.) More than that, gentlemen, I was confined to bed, and said I would not come forward to Rhodes, Ferguson, and Wood : but Sealy was not mentioned as standing for a member then. Another thing I mention is, Mr. Sealy’s putting his case, as he calls it, into Mr. Allen’s hands. Many men have been ridiculed at elections. Did Stark, or Ferguson, or myself talk to the police ? Now, 1 came here with no personal ill-feeling to Mr. Sealy, and was quite unprepared for the language used bv him. Things of that sort arc not talked of by gentlemen ; but Mr. Sealy has used insulting language towards me, which will most assuredly tell against him. And this, gentlemen, convinces mo that Mr. Sealy is not the man to represent yon, that he is not fit to associate with gentlemen, and consequently is not the person (o mingle with gentlemen in the House of Representatives.—(Applause.) Mr. Tucker was here loudly called for. and having come forward, said : Gentlemen, I have little to add, after what I said on nomination day. My quiet style, after such animated speeches, would probably not be much relished. I need not recapitulate, therefore, what I have before spoken about. However, I should like to explain why I, a Waipukurau man, should come forward to " ask your votes. Gentlemen, I did not seek this office. I and others would have liked Mr. Gollau, an old and tried settler, to have come forward ; but Mr. Gollan refused. Not a single better man was brought forward, and no one was mentioned as likely to come forward. Then, previous to departing for Auckland, Mr. Stark sent me a letter saying he would resign. Mr. Sealy said to me lie would back me up if I would come forward, and pressed me to stand. I will ask Mr. Sealy—What was Itodo ? Could I make myself a member ? Was not my answer a proper one, gentlemen ?—it was, “ If Mr. Stark resigns, I will come forward.” I then afterwards wrote the lines of my address as printed. I think, gentlemen, tin’s will"remove the charge of presumption on my part —(Voices : No presumption) ; —and when I received the notification, I offered myself. Did I own quarter or half an acre allotment, or did I live here, or did I hold a government office (which I might have done I dare say, had I wished, in the general scramble), would I have been a more suitable person, or would my removing from one side of the NgarurOfO to fcae other have made the difference ? or would it have infiucnced your votes ? It. is the province Ol the electors to decide whether I am a fit and proper person, and to judge for themselves. 1 give no pledge, and wish none. I would not have it. But I say to you all, gentlemen electors, exercise your privilege of franchise ; and now I will answer any questions you may choose to ask. ?»Ir. Smith : The difference is not which side of the Ngaruroro you live on, but because you are a run-holder. I would ask, sir, Is sur.-1'o 1 - 5 - e. ,r th° permanent system, or is the pastoral small farms and holdings, the most desirable in your opinion ? Mr. Tucker : I replied 4 , *iuc en^f.

JVly uiiswot is, without our yeomen, Grout Britain would not have been what she now is. J- support holdings. Mr. IITI! : Large holdings? Mr. Tucker: Name the size. Mr. S.mxth : Say, 10,000 acres. Mr. Tucker: Home would call that small, perhaps ; but I would support the small farmers and yeomen. Mr. Tuipiiook : Do you, sir, approve of leasing native lands ? Mr. Tucker : I always thought it wrong, and argued against it, and thereby exposed myself to the charge of selfishness, as thereby enhancing the value of my own land. But lately, I have altered iijy opinion, and think it better if some properly organised scheme could he arranged, so as to allow ilnythe expenses of roads and bridges ; and 1 think it would materially assist the extinction of tiro native title. And, also, the payment of money should be regulated and defined, as the Maories are always very jealous on the division of money. I think, therefore, that it would be better if we could carry out the leasing system on a proper footing. .Mr. Tuipiiook ; I am not satisfied with your answer, sir. Mr. Tucker ; I’leasc repeat your question. Mr. Tuipiiook : Would you propose to support native lease-holders in the absence of law ? Mr. Tucker ; I never break the law. Mr. T uiPHOOK : Would you uphold tlic breakers of the law, or would you punish them ? Mr. Tucker : Punish them of course. Several jocular questions were here put ; but as (hoy were irrelevant to the intended object of the meeting, we have thought proper to suppress them. Mr. Tucker : Gentlemen, as you have no further questions to ask, I shall retire and thank you for your giving me a hearing. Alter a vote of thanks to the Chairman, (he meeting separated about 10 o’clock. THE POLLING Took place on Monday last and we are informed with the following result: —

C'OLENSO Town. Puketapu. Pctiiiw. lloliaka. Totals' 37 1 0 0—47 Seai.y 10 4 1 0—30 Tucker 23 0 0 0—23 Ferguson 5 0 0 0— -5