MINISTERIAL INQUIRY ASKED

Hawke's Bay Herald-Tribune, Issue 51, 16 March 1937, Page 6

MINISTERIAL INQUIRY ASKED

Hospital Board Dispute Reaches Further Stage

DR. J. ALLAN BERRY CENSURED SOME APOLOGIES EXCHANGED The Minister of Health is to be invited by theHawke's . * Bay Hospital Board to conduct an inquiry into the administration of the Napier Hospital. This was decided at the monthly meeting of the board yesterday afternoon after nearly four hours' debate, at tiines most heated, regarding various aspects of hospital control which have lately been in dispute. A yote of confidence was passed in favour of the chairman, Mr. C. Lassen, after Mr. C. O. Morse had renounced his intention of moving a yote of noconfidence in Mr. Lassen in accordance with a statement made by him after the special meeting of the board on February 26. After a clash with the chairman, Dr. J. Allan Berry was charged with contempt of standing orders and a motion of censure on him was passed. Dr. Berry alleged that board members were displaying want of honour in their behaviour and their remarks in respect of -• the dispute which has arisen since the outbreak of serious disease in the children's ward last year.

"Very strong exeeption was takou by Dr. Berry to what be reg&rded aS an innuendo made by Mr G. Duff at the special meeting. Dr. Berry held that the evidence at the inquiry was in direct contradiction to it. . He submitted *« question five tiines to Mr Duff, with whose answers Dr. Berry expressed dissatisfaction. The discussion arose following the reading of two letters received by the board from Sister M. A. Wood. The board decided, in xesponse to a request by her, that a copy of her own evidence at the inquiry should be made available to her. Dr. Berry, ^ in ^ the eourse of the discussion, maintained that, if a full inquiry were held, the facts which it would bring to light wotdd commend Sister Wood for the actions which she had taken. The managing-secretaTy, Mr E. T. Bees, xead the following letter received from* Sister Wood: "About two weeks ago I applied to the secretary for a copy of the evidence I gave at the Shrimpton Ward inqniry. He informed me that he was in possession of neither the original statements nor the copies, as they had been sent to, Wellington. This being so, I should be glad if you will apply to Wellington on my bekalf for a copy, please." Dr. Berry: What has the secretary to say concerning that letter? The secretary: It is not so. Dr. Berry: I take it that the secretary says that the hurse's statement it not carre'et. The secretary: I don't say it is incorreet; it is a misunderstanding. Sister Wood wrote another letter to the board, reading as follows: "With reference to the newspaper repprfc concerning the manner of my resignation and suspension, I wish to state that I am neither directly nor indirectly xesponsible for them. I have never to my knowledge spoken to a reporter of — — (a Wellington weekly newspaper), except ovfer the telephone, when I deelined to make any statement in reply to his request for information." "I am very glad that the sister has written explaiaing that she had nothiag to do with the newspaper report, which was both misleading and incortect," -said Mr Duff, in moving that her letter be received. This motion ,was seconded by the chairman, Mr Lassen. "I'm quite sure that members will be very pleased to hear Sister Wood's letter read," said Mr Duff. "There can be no doubt that the newspaper report was not an accurate one. Mr Morse: Has anyone got a copy Of it? Mr Duff: Yes, I have. Mr Duff handed to Mr Morse a elipping of the report in question. Public ShGUld Know More "Mr Dnff has said that that report Is inaecurate; I agree with him at least that it does not convey all the facts about Sister Wood's case," said Dr. Berry. "The public should know more. ' ' Mr Lassen: Doctor, are you suggesting that the whole of the facts of Sister Wood's case should be publish«d? Dr. Berry: Yes. I certainly think that the true faets should eome out. Mr Lassen: Well, I will put a motion to the board to test the feelings of members as to whether the facb3 should come out or not. "Why shouldn't they be known?" demanded Dr. Berry. "I'm going to say what I want to in f airness to the sister. Mr Duff: I moved that we should tupply Sister Wood with a copy of her evidence only, don't forget. "I have often expressed my strong disapproval of the manner in which you set about procuring the resignation of Sister Wood," went on Dr. Q Berry . "It has been suggested that she has been eonvieted on her own evidence, but the point is this: Was the evidence on which she was con- , victed all that she gave? It was stated among the findings of the special committee that Sister Wood refused to answer all the qnestions put to her until she had obtained legal advice from her solieitor. If the evidence is ineomplete in this respect, it may be incomplete in other respeets." UI do not see the slightest reason for the evidence being kept seeret," said JDr Berry. "The public is entitled to know what this evidence is and it is going to know, I want this question of the sister's resignation. discussed." Mr Duff: I rise to a point of order. I hava moved a motion. explaining that "tiio sister had no responsibility in connection. with. the newspaper report, and what Dr Berry is saying is quite outside. The motion. is not to consider reason for the sister's resignation. Dr Berry^'Why not?

Mr Lassen: I am conducting this meeting, and X am going tq tell you as chairman' that you cannot pursue this point. If you persist in doing so 1 must ask you to resume your seat. 1 am not going to allow you to press that matter any further. » Mr Duff : I move that Dr Berry be censured under By-law 37 for his attitude towards the chairman. Unless we obey -the ruling of the chairman, the business of the meeting can never be condueted. " Mr DufTs motion to censure Dr Berry was seconded by Mr J. B. Campbell and carried, Mr Morse dissenting. Mr Lassen then read the by-law, the wording of which is as follows: — "Contempt of- standing ©rders. — Any member adjudged by the board for any of the causes specified in these standing orders guilty of contempt, or of any wilful offence or misfeasance, or wilful or negligent act of commission or omission, shall, on motion, with or without nofcice, be censured hy the chairman and such censure shall be recorded in the minutes or he shall be suspended during the remaiuder of the meeting." Gensure Motion carried. After the motion of censure had been carried, Dr Berry still stood on his feet, and Mr Lassen commanded him to resume his. seat. Dr Berry took no heed of this. Mr Morse : Does it mean now that we call in the police? Mr Lassen : I ask you, Dr Berry, are you going tp have this recorded in the minutes? ' Dr Berry made no reply. Mr S.J. McK.ee: I think that the matter ought to be remedied jn a difierent way. We must obey" the chairman' s ruling. I am with Dr^ Berry if he has suffered a wrong, and" I would be the the iirst to assist in having it put right. Mr Luff ; We all would. Mr McK.ee: I woxiid like to see our proceedings condueted in, a manner in vvliich more, harmony would prevail. A sub-committee was set up by the boai'd to make an investigation. The committee heard all the evidence, and it is for the board to look at the position with an open mind. Mr Lassen: I am not going to allow Dr Berry to ride rough shod in this manner. Mr Morse: Mr McKee has set out in way to try and reconcile the matter in a manner that I would like to follow. I think that the whole thiiig could be settled in ^4 hours if we were only reasonable. I told you that, Mr Chairman, long ago. Dr Berry is trying to explain that the sister was not connected with the newspaper report, which has showed us up in a bad light. Let us get to work and clean the matter up now and have it finished with. Mr Lassen: The board would no doubt say that a niinisterial inquiry should" take place. Until that inquiry is set up I do not think that this is the time to discuss the matter. 1 want to assure members that I have no axe to grand whatever. Dr Berry; Your attitude is to suppress me at every opportuiiity. Mr Lassen: That is simply on account of the evidence having been taken in committee and which cannot be gxveii out at this stage. Mr Morse: I hope you have the same code of honour in your private conversations on the matter. Dr Berry: 1 do not understand all this secrecy about the committee and the evidence. What has it got to be afraid of? Mr Lassen; 1 have notbiiig to be afraid of. The evidence given was in committee. At the special meeting o'f the board on. February 26 none of the evidence was made public. Dr Berry: I ask to be ailowed to make a personal explanatiou. That explanation will cover what you have aiready dealt with in open board. The inquiry is coming all right. Mr Lassen: We cari ask the Minister of Health to set up an inquiry if he thlnks it necessary after he has received the evidence of the main inquiry which we have nearly eompleted. Dr Berry : What is this inquiry about ? Mr Lassen: Into the general unrest and other matters in the hospital. J am in favour of the evidence being sent to the Minister and of letting him decide. Getting Somewhere Mr McKee: I approve cf tlie motion and I am very pleased that we seem to be getting somewhere at last. Messrs ?amj>bell »nd R. Harding

alsq expressed themselves to be iii favour of the motion, which was then put to the meeting,- and carried. "This question of honour interests me and I feel that I can make a request to .which any honourable man cajx concede," said Dr Berry. Beferring to a newspaper report of the special meeting on February 26, Dr Berry quoted Mr Duff as having made the following statement: "I am not saying that Dr Berry ordered that treatment for the other patients at all, but being endowed .with ordinary intelligence, board members are ailowed to draw their own conclusions from the obvious facts." "I am aware that the evidence taken at the inquiry is directly contradietory to the inuendo contained in the paragraph I hav-a just read," said Dr. Berry. "Mr Duff is also aware of this faet. I now call upon Mr Duff to do me the justice of stating that he did not infer- that and he himself knew that I did'Jiot give instructions thatthe children under • the care of . Dr. Whyte should be bathed.?' Mr Duff: In makiug that statement I merely stated facts, and if Dr. Beriy has any complaint to make it is his fault because he did n'ot appear at the inquiry. Dr. Berry: If Mr Duff says that" that is inaecurate then that's all right, I'll take it. But I am not going to have an evasion. . Dr. Berry then repeated the statement given above on. five oceasions, addressing his remarks directly to Mr Duff. Mr. Duff: He asks so many qnestions that I don't know where to start. But if it will please Dr. Borry I'll reply to him that at the special meeting I merely stated facts and I have nothing more. to.add. • - • Dr. Berry: . I now ask any boardmembers whether they want to contradiet me, and I want to Temind you that I am putting this question to you as men of honour. No comment was made "by board members. Dr. Berry: Now I ask .Mr Duff again to answer me. ■ Mr Duff : I do -not think there is any necessity for me .to say any- more. However, I will .say this: At. tliat meeting I said what I had to say as fairly and impartially as I could, and without the slightest' animosity towards Dr. Berry. I bore no malice for him then and I bear no malice. now. Pursuing his subjectj Dr.' Berry again asked board- members - whether ■ they would do him the justice of saying that Mr. Duff's xeported infer ence was' a false one. "I am putfing this up to a board of honourable men, I would "remind you. Mr. "Duff will not face the issue. Will any other board memb'er do me the justiee of saying that that innuendo was a false ohe?"' Mr. Lassen: It's not in the Rvidenco that you ordered that treatment 'to Dr. Whyte 's patients. - Dr. Berry: Do you, Mr. ' Chairman, then say that there is no infereiieo that I ordered this treatment?" 'Mr. Lassen: I say it is not in the evidence. Dr. Berry; Surely there is one member here who is man enough to say "Dr. Berry is right." Is there not one of you? Bemember I am here on trial. What sort of men are you? Is there not one of you who will say that I was right? Something Easier, "All right," said Dr, Berry when no reply had been received, "I'll give you something easier. I gave .instructions that the baths were to be between 110 and 112 degrees, and actaally . they wero in the nature of hip baths. Mr. Duff knows and has been told this by all responsible ^witnesses. Will Mr. Duff do me the justice of stating this as a fact, since he appears, without any ulterior motive I hope, to have forgotten to state it. Mr. Duff in his remarks stated that the baths ranged up to 120 degrees and frequently were at 116 degrees. 3 know, and Mr. Duff knows, that this is in direet contradiction to the evi dence. Will Mr. Duff do justice to the sister and nurses of Shrimpton Ward by stating that this, / too, is in direct contradiction to the evidence?" Mr. Duff: I cannot remember all tjic evidence. . Dr. Berry: Will Mr. Buff do justice to the sister of the ward? I think that the public would think more of him if he did. I am finished with him just now. I realise that it is u terrible indictment that I have made. , You say, Mr. Chairman, that .the reason that my resignation was asked for was because I did not give evidence. Mr. Lassen: Yes, that is the reason. You defied the board. Dr. Berry: Did you give Dr. Whyte notiee that he was to give evidence? Mr. Lassen: No. Dr. Berry: Did you send any letter 1o Dr. Whyte to give evidence? Mr. Lassen: No. Dr. Berry; Why not? Mr. Lassen: Because he was uot. so concerned. We sent a letter asking him certain questions. Dr. Berry: These are just incidents by the way. I am going into the matter mueh further. Mr. Duff: Is this intimidation? Dr. Berry: You can take it in any way you like. You made the statement, Mr. Chairman, that Dr. Gilray had uot a written request to give evidence. Mr. Lassen: Y&s, at the main inquiry, Dr. Berry; Your statement at the special meeting was not correct. Mr. Lassen: It was correct, Dr. Gilray was sent a letter asking him to give evidence in the Shrimpton Ward matter. Dr. Berry: You have two doctors, then, who refused to give evidence. Mr. Lassen: Dr. Whyte was not asked to give evidence. , Dr. Berry ^ Dr. Whvte was in charge of the four patients and you think .that. it was not necossary for hira to givo evidence? • ■ - Mr. Lassen: The committee did not think that it was. necessary. ti was the eommittee and not my-setf. Dr. Gilray 's Position. " Dr. Berry; Well, there is Dr. Gilray. Jlr. Lassen: We had a verbai , message from Dr. Gilray that. he co.uld not attend. Dr. Berry: Do ycu t* «ftck both these doctors? . . Mr, Lassen: No.

. Dr. Berry: Do you iatend to ask for their suspension then! , Mr. Lassen:. No,. 1 ' We are trying to clear up eome ground in regard to this question of honour," said Mr. Morse. "I hava tendered Dr. Wilson my apology. He has xeferred to me as throwlng a spanner in the wheel, but if I am to help you, Mr. Chairman, and this board, 1 feel that you must be prepared to say that you will never refer again "in public to a private conversation with me in my room. If I cannot get an apology from you I am going ahead with my motion of no-confidence in you. " Mr. Lassen: Well, you can go ahead. Mr. Morse: I'll leavj it to you gentlemen to decide whether Mr. Lassen did right. Dr. Berry;' I.am afraid, Mr. Chairman, that this board is sadiy lacking so f ar as any question of honour is concerned. "In connection with the Tesignation of Sister Wood, if you have not got the courage to stand up . to it in this board room you will meet it from another quarter," added Dr. Berry. Mr. Lassen: Ih' the Ministerial inquiry, if 'it takes place, that will • come out. Dr. Berry: It might come out. There is not one of you who will- stand up to it as honourable men. Mr. Lassen: That is all right, Dr. Berry. • Mr. Morse:. I, hope that Dr.'Berry has not taken the silence on the part of the other Napier members as agreeing* with the board. On being asked, both Mr- MorSe and Mr. ' Bedford - agreed* that- they were aware that the evidence -was directly contradictory to the alleged innuendo. Dr. Berry: There' are at least two men of Bpnour. Mr. htiKee: I'Tise to a point of order. Dr.- 'Berry" has no right to accuse tis in" this" way; ' The. committee was 'set up and heard the evidence "wHich "this. board' has not' heard. His attack is not right "or 'fair. . . Mr. Morse: I ag^in plea tha.t we.make. an. endeavour to. try and -bring about .a smQoth '. undejrstanding, ■ . Dr. [Wilson. gained. freia .me a fuir apology. An: apology ' is d'ue tio -me from you. -TJntilyou giYe it:'l feel that I cannot give you my weight. , ' : Private -Conversa*io». . Mr. Bedford;;! fe«l thatiany privatb conversation 'our chairmah nad' with Mr. Morse . should . not h&ve been made public. . - - : - Mr. Lassen : -I did. not ■ take it as being a private cqnversatipn. -If it should have-been- treated^as-private'-I -am.'very sorry. ' • Mr./Morse: Thank you. Mr. Bedford: But I am not- satisfled. At this ■ stage • the board • proceeded to deal with other matters on the agenda- paper, returning to tfie .hospita; dispute later oh, when Mr. Morse appealed to members to show what .he called a "sp'orting attitude" towards Sister Wood by Jdeferring her resignation until after the Ministerial inquiry (if any) had taken 5 place. "Do I take it that Sister Wood stays with us until after the findings of tne- Ministerial inquiry?'-' he asked. ."I think it would be generous of us if we ailowed her to remain." Dr. Berry: 1 mainlain that Sister Wood has been treated in a very unfair manner, ahd with tne probability of a full inquiry, I suggest that her resignation' should be withdrawn pending a decision f rom an impartial inquiry.. Dr. Berry alleged that matenal facts had been suppressed, and if the board suggested that - an independent tribunal be set-up,' he would say that.meanwhile the board should allow the sister to remain. Mr-. Morse: I think it is only in justice that we should do this and I- move a motion accordingly. Just suppose that the inquiry brings in a finding which is against ours: We '11 look like goats. Mr. Duff: Be careful of that word "goats," Mr. Morse. We've talked about pigs, aiready, you know. Mr. Lassen: I can't see how the .department can reverse 'our findings. ' . Dr. Berry: I second Mr. Morse 's motion. Mr. Duff: I sqy without the slightest hesitation that Sister Wood has merited the board 's action in asking for her resignation. On her own evidence .she was clearly. guilty of a breach and.I strongly oppose Mr. Morse 's suggestion. . . Dr, Berry: When an impartial tribunal considers the matter, with the full facts baf.ore it, far from the tribunal asking Sister Wood for her resignation, it will commefid her for the action she took. Mr. Bedford also supported the tnoition, which was lost by six . votes to three when put to the meeting.