SCENE IN THE HOUSE

Grey River Argus, 7 October 1948, Page 5

SCENE IN THE HOUSE

CHAIRMAN’S RULING IS DEFIED' BY A NATIONALIST Tumultuous Shouting And Great Disorder

P.A. WELLINGTON, Oct. 6 A scene, without a precedent foi many years, occurred in the House of Representatives to-night, shortly before the adjournment. This was when members of the Opposition made what amounted to a demonstration against a ruling of the chairman of committees, Mr Clyde Carr. Tempers were obviously strained on botn sides of the House. Mr Garr declared that his ruling was sound, and that he would upholo it. Progress was then reported. Before the adjournment was taken, there were further references to what had occurred in committee. Mr S. G. Holland said he was concerned with maintaining a decorum of the House. He said he would inquire into the incident as far as the Opposition members were concerned. The House had been in committee all the evening, discussing the Harbours’ Amendment Bill. Opposition speakers had claimed that the provision in the bill for the appointment of representatives of the waterfront workers’ unions to Harbour Boards on a non-elective basis was against the principles of democracy. Shortly before the closure was applied, on the motion of Rt. Hon. W. Nash (following the division in which the Opposition at first thought a closure was refused), the chairman of committees, Mr Carr ruled that further references to “democracy”, were! out of order during the discussion of the bill, as they would merely constitute tedious repetition. After a division on the short title, Mr Smith moved an amendment to delete the provision in the bill foi any non-elective members of Harbour Boards, whether representatives of the payers of dues, or of the waterfront workers, of the Government. When this amendment had been under discussion for some time, Mr R. M. Algie (Nat., Remuera) rose to support it. In doing so he made reference to what he termed violation of principles of democracy in the provision for appointment of nonelected members to Harbour Boards. Mr Carr ruled that this reference was out of order. Mr Algie questioned the . ruling. After a brisk interchange with Mr Carr Mr Algie said: “If I am to understand that I am ordered to resume mv seat because I cannot use the word democracy in a British Commonwealth Parliament, I must defy the chait* Mr Algie remained on his feet, although Mr Carr had risen to his feet, at his place, as chairman of committees.

Mr Algie’s statement was greeted by sustained cheering and by shouted “Hoorays” from the Opposition benches. . . .. . „ The House was in a tumult for

several moments. Amid a number of heated comments Mr A. S. Sutherland (Nat., Hauraki) was heard to say: “If we are not allowed to talk about democracy we W Aft S e°r h the outcray from the Opposition benches subsided, Mr Carr, who had remained on his feet said that Mr Algie had no right to remain standing when the Chairman of Commutes was on his feet. Government voices. Baa man said that Mr Algie had understood the ruling that hadl been elven, and he had no to defy • Members had discussed this bill foi two hours to-night before the references to democracy had been ruled out of order. REASONS FOR RULING Mr Carr said that the time had been occunied very largely, in discussing the pl’os ’and cons of democratic principle as applied to this bill. That he had ruled that this matter must not be discussed further on this bill d not mean that the principle ot dmocracy had itself been lost sight of. Mr W. A. Sheat (Nat. ratea). “Temporarily obscured!” Mr Carr said that the only purpose of his ruling was to avoid the tedious repetition. It did not mean that democracy had been lost sight of, or in any wav minimised, or defeated. It meant only that members could no longer abuse the reference to demouractic principle to prolong this de is why I ruled as I did. 1 maintain the justice of/ny ruling, and it must be maintained, said the chan m Mr S. A. Smith (Nat Gisborne): “Democracy is gagged! nmo-rocc Mr Nash then moved that piogiess Alevas just two minutes before the normal time for the adjournment of the House. Mr Smith: “Stalin! The Speaker, Mr McKeen, then returned to the Chamber. Mr Carr reported that the Committee had made progress, and he asked for leave to sit again. Mr Nash: “I move that this House do now adjourn,” Mr F Doidge (Nat., Tauranga): “Let us sing ‘The Red Flag’ now.” Mr A. G. Osborne (Govt. Onehunga) “Let us cut our throats!” A Government voice: they aie drunk!”

OPPOSITION LEADER ASHAMED Mr Holland asked leave to make a statement. He said that certain things had happened that night which members should take a little time to think over. Mr Nash: “Hear! Hear!’ Government voices: “It was disgraceful!” , , , , , Mr Holland said that he had a duty to maintain the decorum of the House. Mr Nash: “Look after your own side! I am Leader' of this House! Mr Holland said that he had not spoken one word of criticism. It was unnecessary for the acting Leader 1o be rude. Mr Holland said that certain happenings in the House that night must be examined, and he would undertake to examine them for his side of the House. He would do his best to regain what had been lost. He felt that it was his duty to help maintain the good order of the House. Mr Nash said that he was happy that Mr Holland had raised the matter. He had never seen from his side of the House, anything like what had occurred that, night. Not in twentj years had he seen anything so disglMrfW. A. Broadfoot (Nat., Waitomo): “We are not going to be gag- ] RRESPONSI BLE CONDUCT Mr Nash said .that there was a need for a, sense of individual and of col lective responsibility in the House He was sorrv that the standards exhibit Pd that nTght had been reached in the e Holland said that he thought that a remark had been made by Hon Mr Nordmeyer which should admitted making* a Mr •>- heat of t he moment, and he unreservedly withdrew the remark and its implication.

lUIO SPEAKER REMONSTRATES The Speaker, Mr McKeen. said that up wls not in the House at the time S Sie incident, but he knew that

members on both sides had been expressing strong opinions, and that some heat had been raised. He would appeal to all members to remember their responsibility to the Speaker of the House and to the. Chairman of Committees. It was f .°' either of them to conduct the affairs of the House properly unless they had the co-operation of all of the members and especially the leaders on both sides, to whom he looked, especially for co-operation and guidance in the conduct of the House. He had never found that co-operation lacking, and he asked the members to continue to accord proper respect to the Speaker of the House and equally to the Chairman of Committees. The House rose at 10.40 p.m.