ALLEGED ATTEMPTS TO PURCHASE POLITICAL SUPPORT.

Grey River Argus, Volume XII, Issue 1314, 15 October 1872, Page 2

ALLEGED ATTEMPTS TO PURCHASE POLITICAL SUPPORT.

MR HARRISON'S DISCLOSURES. A telegraphic summary of a discussion relating to certain disclosures made by Mr Harrison, M.H.R., has already appeared in these columns. The following is a more detailed report : — The Speaker, on the resumption of the House, said that on the evening before last he received a note from the honorable member for Grey Valley, requesting that he would grant him an interview yesterday morning upon a matter of some consequence. He fixed eleven o'clock as the hour at which he would be present to receive the honorable member, and; at that hour the honorable member waited upon him and made a statement to him of a charac'er which appeared to him to be one of considerable importance. He desired the honorable member to put the statement he had made in writing, and; he proposed now to read to the House the statement he had received to-day from the hon. member, together with the note he had written in reply to the hon. member for Grey Valley. ; The following was the letter referred to :— "House of Representatives, " Wellington, Ocfci 2, 1872. " Sir— l feel it my duty to communicate to you officially certain circumstances affecting my honor as a member of the House, and which, I think should be submitted to the House itself. ?' On Monday last Captain Holt, a gentleman acting, as I believe, as private secretary, to Mr J as. Brogden, intimated, to me that an arrangement might be entered into between the firm of Brogden and Sons and myself, for the use of my professional services as a journalist, for the purpose of furthering, through the public Press of the Colony, certain undertakings which the firm had in contemplation— more particularly proposals for supplying water to gold fields, and for mining generally, as also a proposal for the construction and working of railways in New Zealand by a company instead of by the Government. " I felt no hesitation in agreeing to an interview for the purpose of talking the proposal over, and was quite prepared to consent to such an arrangement as would simply involve the employment of my professional skill for bona fide purposes. The afternoon of the same day, I called by arrangement at the office of Messrs Brogden and Sons, and had a lengthy interview with Captain Holt, prior to which I gave my word that what might pass between us on the snbject of our prior conversion should be considered confidential. This pledge was given upon the understanding on my part that the conversation would only relate to the offer made to me privately and professionally.- It, however, was stated that should any agreement be made between myself and the firm of Brogden and Sons it was to be a condition that I should, as a member of the House, use my influence to further the interests of the firm. It was specially intimated that, whilst 1 need not commit the Wellington Independent (of which paper l am editor) to any direct support of the present Government, ! nor that I should vote in that direction ■m the House, I should do what I could to iafluence the Hon, Mr Yogel not to bring

down this session a motion which might involve the defeat of the Government, the reason aUeged being that it was to Mr Brogden's interest that Mr Stafford's Government should remain in power for at least the current year. The whole tenor of the proposal submitted tome wasthat if I received 'aTr^remuSeSkion from Messrs Brogden and Sow, it would involve my services as member of the Mouse. :-,"I need hardly^y, Sir; ShTniTonce declined to proceed any further with the negotiation, stating that I would under no circumstances make any arrangement that might fetter niyjpblitical action. In ■view of the iacis I have narrated, 1 could not conceal from myself that a deliberate .and inguiting attempt to Burchase' my political support had" been made- m I felt that the pledge of secrecyJ which I had m the first instance gi yen prevented my resenting it in an op en ; manner. la my difficulty I sought your- ad vice , as to whether I was bound by the ternra of confidence originally agreed upon, and you, Sir, advised me that not only was I at liberty to disclose the fact's I have related, but that I was bound in all honor to do so. I have, therefore; felt it right to address this letter to you, and to leave the matter in your hands.— l have, &c. «m, -r, "W « H - HARRISOIT. "The Hon. the Speaker of the House f of Representatives." ' ' He must inform the House 'that upon hearing from the hon. member for Grey Valley the substance of his letter, be considered it to be his duty.to place .himself in immediate communication -withTthe Prime Minister, and he informed that gentleman of the circumstances? so far as they had been brought to his knowledge, stating at the same; time that it'wa^ his (the Speaker's) duty to bring the matter before the House, and leaving it fohfai to decide whether any action on the ,pa# of the House should be taken inUhe matter. He felf it due to the hon member to say that the object of the hon. member for Grey .Valley simply /was tD laj the circumstances before. him with a view of ascertaining whether he was bound to niaintain the secrecy which he alleged had been contracted between himself and Captain Holt. He stated plainly his opinion to be this ; that where, two men voluntarily entered into engagements with each other that necessarily tested on the basis that the communication was of a character honorable; to both parties, and - where anything. of a dishonorable oharacter was. proposed by one of «those parties _ that all pledges were atari end. He had made his statement, and it was now for the hon. gentleman, the leader of the House, to say whether the matter was of sufficient importance to attract the attention of- the House in any direction, and if so, in what way. . , , ; ,. Mr Stafford said the matter was one requiring the grayest consideration. The Speaker had stated correctly what had taken place with one exception. When the Speaker waited upou him on' the previous day and informed him that what had taken place was under a pledge of secrecy he immediately determined to withdraw, but upon the request of the bpeaker he remained* It wa3 proper that the statement had been taken down in writing, and having read the letter he could not fail to observe that a statement made by the member for Grey Valley at the interview, to the effect that he had been offered a direct pecuniary' considers* tion for his vote,, was absent from the written document. At the interview also there was no reference ?made;to that portion of the written statement which made reference to the present Government. He had been called upon as leader of the House to state what- line of action the House should take; He was- ndt af Ihat moment prepared to say what that'action should be, or whether he should suggest any action at all. He was sorry to differ with the Speaker in the remarks hehad made on the proper conduct to be observed by gentlemen who entered into matters of secrecy between each other. Hia own course would be, if he disproved of any proposal, to discontinue all communication but to retain as secret whatever might have transpired between h*V and another party. As he had already ' stated, he was not prepared to state what action should be adopted by the House, and he must ask for time to consider the matter. The Speaker said he informed the hon. member for Grey Valley at the time he spoke to him (the Speaker) that it appeared to him he was bringing a' very grave accusation against a person who had held a very high position. in, the, .Civil Service, and that he considered it necessary that he should be very precise in the statement he wished- to communicate. He would not express any Opinion as to the difference of view the Premier held%ith himself as, to the matter of, secresy.; , He felt it to be his duty to take the course he did, and he thought it proper that the Premier should take time to consider the course he should suggest to the, House. Mr Reynolds hoped that in the meantime the letter would be printed. Mr Gillies also thought that : as the matter would likely come up again, the letter should be printed. . The matter was one, however, which he must, be allowed to state should not have come before the House at all. The Speaker thought it proper that the House should state whether' he- was justified in bringing the matter before the House. When the Treasurer took upon himself to say that the matter was one which should not have been 'brought before the House, he should ask that an opportunity be afforded him to give > the reasons why he had brought the subject before the House, in a -matter of, the kind he felt that it was of some consequence to the House, as well as to his position as Speaker, that thero should be no possible mistake as to the grounds upon which he had acted. He felt it his duty to say that if a Minister of the Crown expressed so stronglyand decidedly his Dpmion that he r (the Speaker) had erred, 3ome opportunity should be afforded him fco state the grounds upon which he. had acted. " •• ! ; : ' iv f Mr Gillies regretted that the Speaker should have misunderstood him. It was not his intention to made any- allusion to the action of the Speaker in bringing the motion before the House after the communication had been made to him, and by him 3ommunicated to the Preniier. It would |iave been exceedingly improper in him [Mr Gillies) to have expressed any opinion ipon that matter after it had been re'erred to other members of the Governnent, and the advice of the Premier ;aken. His allusion was directed at the neraber for Grey Valley for having brought such a matter before the House

at all. In no respect did he refer to the action of the Speaker. (" Oh, oh/) He heard hon. members saying " Oh, oh," bat he was not in the habit of wishing to evade the consequences of anything he might have said. He would again assure the Speaker tha', he had no intention to refer to him in the matter, but to the hon. member for Grey "Valley, who hat brought forward a matter which must have occurred, and which had, in fact, ocenrred to other members of the House. He would again repeat, the opinion that the matter was one which should not have been brought be 'ore the House at all. Mr Fox said there could be no doubt that a very grave matter had been brought under the consideration of the House, and he regretted to observe a number of members of the House laughing while the Speaker and the hon. member at the head of the Government had in a very proper spirit been dealing with the matter which had been brought under the consideration of the House. The course adopted by the Speaker was the only proper course to pursue in such a difficulty. As to the bond of secrecy, he should always maintain that if a person Invited another to enter into a bond of secrecy and a person consented to pledge, that person was no longer bound by his pledge when he/ was asked to do something that was injurious to a third party, and in the present case the overtures were injurious to tho credit of the House. After a few remarks from Sir J. C. Wilson and Mr Shepherd, MrVogel said he must enter his protest against the hon. member for Grey Valley being made a scapegoat in this matter. The course taken by that gentleman was creditable to him, and was one that should be followed in any similar difficulty by every other member of the House. Sir J. C. Wilson said that if Oapi Holt had made such an overture to him as had been made to jthe member for Grey Valley he would have made such an impression on his face as would have left him open to make any explanation he liked, but he would keep to himself the secret and his pledge. Mr Yogel was aware that the hon. gentleman was a most honorable gentleman, bnt if the hon. member for Grey Valley had preserved the secret to himself the colony might have been the sufferer for a number of years. The hon. member for Grey Valley, instead of being blamed for the course he had pursued, was entitled to the thanks of every member of the House. Mr Reynolds was rather surprised at the remarks of the Premier and the member for Heathcote. Would the Premier expect him to keep the Beoret if he had been informed that there was an intention to place a quantity of gunpowder beneath the floor of the Houae ? The cases were entirely similar. The Speaker would feel that he should

t ' n — . . .-. — l. ~ ''■ to pursuing a cowardly part ?f he did not at once state that the hon. member for Grey Valley had acted entirely upon his recommendation, and he held that course to be the proper one, for ho should always consider that immediately any person made proposals which were of a dishonorable and disgraceful nature all aecresy ' was at an end. The House should absolve the hon. member from any blame in the matter. The discassion was then closed, and time given to the Premier to decide upon the course to be adopted. Mr Peacock drew the attention of the Speaker to the use of the words by the Colonial Treasurer, that he was aware from recent events, that offers of. a character similar to that received by the hon. member for Grey Valley had been made to several other members of the House. Mr Gillies said he had used no words which had not been used by members during a recent debate, and employed Tery freely in the Press of . the Colony. The words ho had used he was quite prepared to stand by. Mr Stafford on the following day, before the business of the House was proceeded with, desired to intimate to the House the course which the Government had decided upon adopting in regard to the question of privilege raised the previous day. They considered that a "very grave accusation had been made by the hon. member for the Grey Valley, and the attention of the House having been called to the question it was necessary that there should be the fullest and most complete investigation into all the circumstances of the case. They believed that a special committee of the Legislature should be appointed, that the committee should have power to send for papers and records, and to take evidence] upoti oath. . He would therefore propose "That a Committee of Privilege be appointed to investigate all such matters contained in the communication of the hon. member for Grey Valley and by the Speaker communicated to the House, and to report the proceedings thereupon to the House ; the committee to have power to send for papers and records, and to report within a week ; the committee to consist of Sir David Monro, the Hon. Mr Fox, the Hon. Mr Gillies, the Hon. Mr M'Lean, Mr Rolleston, Mr O'Rorke, Mr Sheehan, Mr Pef rce, and Mr G. B. Parker ; seveu to be a quorum." The endeavor of the Government had been to make as fair a representation as possible of both sides of the House, and he thought the House would admit that they had carried- out that endeavor in an impartial manner. He might state that there existed a feeling that tho mover of a motion should himself be placed on the committee. It was not bo, however, and as he desired that the Government should not be represented too strongly on the committee; he had proposed that only one Minister should be appointed to the committee. Be had other duties to attend to which would render it impossible for him to serve, and he would therefore move that tho House do agree to the appointment of the committee with the names he had mentioned. The Speaker, before putting tho q jestion, read two letters he had received that day from Mr Brogden and Captain Holt. The first letter, which was from Mr Brogden, ran os follows : — " Wellington, 4th October, 1872. Sir— With (reference to a letter which appeared in this morning's Independent, from Mr Harrison to yon, and to one addressed to you on the aaine subject by my private secret* ,ry, Captain Holt, I beg to say that I neW authorised Captain Holt to make my offers to Mr Harrison for the employm ent of his services as a journalist on any subject whatever. I need scarcely repudiate on my own part the gross insinuations contained in Sir Harrison's letter to you I should feel obliged by your reading this letter to the House this afternoon. . I havo, &c., James Brooden.— The Hon. tho Speaker of the House of Representatives." The next letter, which was from Captain Holt, was as follows :— " Wellington, 4th October, 1872. Sir—l find in this morning's issue of the Wellington Independent a letter apparently addressed to you by Mr W. H. Harmon, member of the Hoiuo of Representatives for the Grey Valley, which I have read with the utmost surprise and indignation, not merely on account of the gro3sness of the imputation it attempts to cast upon me, but also on account of the niter falsehood which pervades it. On Monday afternoon, Mr Harrison, with whom I was on terms of friendly acquaintance, came to my office, and wo certainly had some conversation with respect to the. use of his professional services ns a journalist in connection with proposals now under contemplation for tho construction of railways in various parts of the Colony, and of water-races on the gold fields ; but the conversation was, on my part, entirely in the nature of suggestion, as I had no authority from Mr Brogden to make any propositions, either definite or indefinite to Mr j Harrison on these matters. Mr Harrison expressed much interest in the subjects of our conversation, and as the afternoon was somewhat advanced, asked me to go home and dine with him in order further to discuss them. I accepted his invitation, and in the course of the evening we had a good deal of talk about the matter in question, Mr Harrison expressing his willingness to further the objects in view through the medium of the public Press. It was not unnatural that, in the course i of our conversation,' the presert political position should also have been dinoussed between us; but whatever opinions J might have expressed in regard to it were spoken in the ordinary confidential relation which subsists between private individuals — and, as such, not intended for repetition. The propriety or impropriety of repeating such conversations is a matter of taste about which I will uot dispute with Mr Harrison ; but I most emphatically repudiate and deny the gross charges and insinuations contained in his communication to you, and should feel obliged by your reading this letter to the House at its meeting this afternoon. I think it proper to add that. I have shown this letter to Mr Brogden, and have forwarded a copy of it to the Hon. the Premier.—l have, &c, R. Holt.— To the Speaker of the House of Representatives. ;C~\ ?* 7 , 8ft y that »hortly after dinner on the Mo ldaj referred to, I walked with Mr Harrison from his house nearly to the Government Buildings, and that we parted without any apparent cha^e in the friendly character of onr acquaintance —a circumstance somewhat inconsistent with the gross insult of which Mr Harriscn complains.— R.H." The motion for the appointment of the committee was put and agrjeed to.