THE HON. MR. LAHMAN AND MR WARDEN SCHAW.

Grey River Argus, Volume XII, Issue 1305, 4 October 1872, Page 2

THE HON. MR. LAHMAN AND MR WARDEN SCHAW.

The following report of a recent discussion in the Legislative Council is furnished by the Wellington Independent of the 27th September:-- ._ The Hon. Captain Baillie moved that ~" the report of the ''Public Petitions CoraV niittee on the petition of Mr Schaw be adopted. He said that after carefukin-;;; . quiry and investigation- into? the circumstances of the c-iae, 'the committee had come to the conclusion that Mr Schaw Had been unjustly dismissed, from the public service. From /the correspondence placed before the -committee! . and from the evidence given by the Hon. Mr Gisborne, it appeared that a letter contain-?;. / ing notice-of Mr- Schaw's dismissal ,wasv°i forwarded fo him in England. Mr Schaw , -p. stated that the letter was received by hint-; ;- in Alexandria, it having gone to England .and afterwards bsen forwarded to; him' at . that place. Mr Schaw wa3, as might: be > „ expected, justly at the action taken by the General Government! After. nine years' ; continuous service, he felt" that he required some relaxation^ And ; had accordingly appliedfbry arid obtained -j. from the Colonial Secretary, leave of abscence. He had. great difficulty, in re-' covering his half pay. .; Subsequent to hii " : ' return, however, the amount waa paid by . iZ the County Council, and it had since been ' paid to Mr Schaw, so that portion of the , petition had been complied, v^ith. Re^ ""- ; ; ferring to the printed evident taken .by ; ? y the committee, the speaker went on to Bay that one of the witnesses, Mr White, had ,;^ testified to the estimation in. which Mr Schaw was held by the people in the districts over which hepresided. He. (Mr White) said that he had been a good deal [about the district, and he always heard >s : Mi\SGhaw gpoken.of in terms of respect. When Mr Scbaw returned frbraßngUndjOJi he applied to be reinstated in ; the service of: the Colony. The Hon. Mr Fox, whp ; ? was on a tour of inspection through West- " land, had the whole papers and corres- ,; ppndence forwarded to him, in order thai -' ne might confer with the Chairman of the ! County Council. Mr Fox had been examined, before the committee, and, from his and other evidence, it appeared that : Mr'Schaw had been placed in the position "of a kind of " shuttle-cock" between the County' Council and the Ministry; sm Neither body appeared to relish the re* \ sponsibility of [ discharging him, and sq placing him in such a, position that all his previous services would count for nothing. Some evidence waa read which -tended to show that a resolution had been brought before the Council to discharge Mr Sehaw. - That resolution, however, had been iega- ; ' tived. The committee had alsp perceived great Variations between the facts of the case and the statements as they appeared in the documents and letters produced. ■■ He (Captain Bailie) referred more particularly to a letter written, or at all events., signed, by the Hon. Mr Rahman. That letter was stated :to have been signed without first having been perqaed/ and lie, / (Captain Bailie) thought suph a course higlily reprehenaible, , seeing that the . object of the letter was to deprive a public : servant of hia bread. . ■ . :■ ■■ : .!■ - : The Hon. Mr Lahman . said it was - with great reluctance he ipund himself called upon to oppose the adoption of the report. In hia capacity of Chairman of the County Council of Weatland, he had~ been instrumental in bringing about tjie dismissal of the gentleman whose claims were under consideration. With regard]" to. the letter or the 29th August, 1871,! referred to by ; the previous speaker, he had simply, to state he was quite willing to take the whole respdilsibility '')[ attached that letter. Although he had . not read the letter, before signing it, he ' v would state that, he fully intended to give instructions that the Government should be' recommended to dispiense with: trth»services of Mr. Schaw. His reason for such a, determination arose simply from the ,fact tha(i the pounty Council ha/j, made no provisiqn for the payment p|;i another Warden. All they had made 1 provision for was payment of half salary : for six months, which showed plainly that they were not willing to vpte more money for Wardens. • They had also by their previous action resolved to reduce the then existing number of Wardens; Although the letter to the Government had not been written by him, it had been signed by him ; • arid he had further tcf state that he quite approved of it. It waaa customary when the County Council prorogued to communicate the proceedings to the Colonial Government. In that case his (Mr Lahman ? a) duty was to instruct the Clerk to write to the Colonial Government, in accordance with there- * aolutions passed by the Cpuncil. He did ao on this occasion, and at the same .time : he recomm.ended that, the services of °~.on§' Warden ahpnld be diapens,ed \fith. It had been said that on a certain becasiona motion recommending Warded Schaw's dismissal had been brought forward in the Council and negatived. He maintained that that motion was negatived. on a remark. being - made by him, that the same object would-! be better obtained by writing to the Colonial Secretary. In recommending that Mr Schaw's services should be dispensed with, he was under the opinion that he (Mr Sohaw) . was a juniot member in the; service, and thatfhis successor, Mr Price,! was his senior sq, fair, 'at least; as tyeir respective terms of years was d^ncprqea.'Although Mr Brice had in reality been ' longest in the service, it turned out tliat he (Mr, Price) had resigned for two months, and had thereby forfeited hia right of seniority to Mr Schaw, In the second place he would inform them that Mr Schaw had always disregarded the local authorities. In asking ; leave i Qf ; absence he never oo^ulted the Council qr v showed them the least courtesy. It must" be borne in mind that although the County Government had not the appointment of Wardens, still the County GpV vernment had to, find the money to pay 1 their salaries, and.it rested with them, to fix the amount ; consequently, Mr Schaw showed considerable neglect in not sending his request fpr leave of absence through the County authorities. Further, Mr Schaw had all along shown a disregard for the affairs of the County. Complaints had bean made of the excessive amount charged by him for travelling expenses, these amounts being in excess of the sums paid to the other Wardens. As an instancehow far Mr Schaw disregarded the interests of the County, the speaker stated that it was found to be necessary some time ago to remove his (Mr Sohaw's) private residence on account of an encroachment of the sea. The removal occupied a period of two months, and on tho acotmnt being pteswrted ii waa found

thai the expense of removal was not only charged, but the County Government was also asked to pay the entire cost of Mr Schaw's living during the time occupied in rebuilding the house. He had further to state that in applying for leave of, absence Mr Schaw applied for something that was not in accordance with the Civil Service Regulation Act. That Act provided that no officor, unless he had been ten years in ijhe service, should be entitled to leave of absence, and yet Mr Schaw, fully aware that the financial affairs of the country were in an embarrassed state, applied for twelve months' leave of absence. His statement that he had made arrangements with Mr Warden Keogh to perform his his duties in his absence was out of the question. He (Mr Keogh) was at that time engaged contesting a General Assem '< bly election, and was thereby prevented from taking his place in the service. This application for leave of absence was made in the face of a contemplated reduction in the number of Wardens. Immediately on the fact being communicated to him that the twelve months' leave of absence had been granted, he sent a telegram to the Colonial Secretary protesting against it, and stating that it had been granted in violation of the Civil Service Act. He acquainted Mr Schaw of what he had done, and told him that he ought to delay his departure until an answer had been , received. Mr Schaw, however, did not think proper to wait the reply, which was delayed for some considerable time in consequence of the Colonial Secretary having gone to Dunedin. His action in the matter had been prompted wholly by a desire to bring about a reduction of the departmental expenses of the Comity; and when they took into account that the financial position of the County imperatively demanded such a reduction, they would see that he had done nothing but what was incumbent on him. To show that ho was really honest in his dedire for retrenchment, he stated that one of the very first reductions to which he. consented was the reduction of LIOO from his own salary. He (MrLahman) had known Mr Schaw since the month of January, 1869, and he had no personal 3ilaint to make agaitißt him. Between tehaw and bis (Mr Lahman's) predef disputes had arisen, but in point of fact he declined having anything to do with these disputes. He never contemplated anything in the action he had adopted other than what would tend to promote, the best interests of the county. When Mr Schaw's case came before the County Council at its last sitting, the whole correspondence was laid upon the table, and yet no question was asked upon the point. In fact, he had considerable difficulty in getting the amount actually due to Mr Schaw passed by the Council, and it was not until he had stated that the Colonial Government would pay the amoun£and charge the County with it, that the sum was sanctioned. Although he would oppose . the motion for Mr Schaw's reinstatement, he would nevertheless have no objection to a compensation award being given to him. He con* eluded by stating that information had reached the district that Mr Warden Aylmer was likely to be removed in order to make place for Mr Schaw, and in view of that change indignation meetings had been held to protest against such a transfer. The Hon. Colonel Whitmore said that he was not unacquainted with the subject matter of this ducusshn. He had gone home to England in company with Mr Schaw, and during the friendly intercourse usual under such circumstances, he had taken the opportunity of advising him (Mr Schaw) not to calculate too far upon his appointment not being Oiled up during his absence. He had further to say that during the voyage he had had frequent opportunities for forming an opinion, and he could assure them that he had. formed a very favorable opinion pf Mr Schaw. He had given some attention, to the proceedings vi this case, and h.e haA no hesitation in saying that every step in its course, so far as Mr Schaw was concerned, had been straightforward and honorable, He had heard the explanation given by the Hon. Mr Lahman. From what he could gather, Mr Lahman wished them to believe that he had all along objected to the leave of absence being granted. That was not borne out by the documents put in evidence. In the telegram produced, the honorable gentleman made no abjection whatever to Jhe leave of absence being granted. The about Mr Schaw's disregard of interests of the county was one of the most paltry that could have been made. The attempt to deprive a public servant of the advantages of his past years services, simply because he had charged travelling expenses at too high a rate, was about the most extraordinary statement he had ever listened to. He must confess that he had heard these objections with something approaching to disgust. (Cries of Hear, near.) If there .was any one to blame for these expenses having been charged at too high a rate, it was not Mr Schaw, it was the person whose duty it was to audit his accounts. As for the re-

(For continuation of News, see ith page.)

ference that had been made to the indignation meetings, all he could Bay was that these meetings were far too easily got up, and at times certain gentlemen knew rather too much about them. He had been informed that a numerously signed petition in favor of Mr Schaw>was in the , courso of being signed in Ihe Weatland district. " Tho Hon. Colonel Brett had listened with extreme disappointment to the explanations made by the- hon. gentleman. He strongly reprobated the indelicate manner iti which statements of insubordination and disrespect to the Council had been made against Mr Schaw. The.se statements he denounced as downright falsehoods, and called upon the other members of the House, in expressing their sentiments, to call things by their: proper name — to call black black, and white white.. The Hon. Dr Buchanan said that, in spite of the explanations made by his hqn. friend, it appeared to him, from the evidence and documents ho held in his hand, that tho allegations contained in the petition had been made out. In tho first place, tho telegram forwarded by the Colonial Secretary clearly showed that Mr Schaw had obtained leave of absence for twelve months, that leave having been, granted by constitutional authorities. Mr Lahman said that he had signed that letter without having read it. He did not know irom his own experience how these matters were transacted, but it did seem to him that an officer who held such a high position in the County whose interests were At stake was guilty of reprehensible conduct in doing so. The lion, member quoted largely from the district paper to show, that the Hon. Mrßonar and other mombera of the County Council did not concur in the action as taken by Mr Lahman. Tho Hon. Mr Stokes, after reviewing the circumstances under which the leave of absence had been gained, characterised the explanation made by the Hon. Mr Lahman as a deliberate misrepresentation. After alluding to the mention made of the indignation meetings held on the West Coast, the speaker concluded by saying that Mr Schaw had the entire confidence of the place, and that he was considered one of ■ best Wardens and Resident Magistrates on the West Coast. Tho Hon. Mr Mantell was clearly convinced that Mr Schaw's removal was most irregular^ and as a precedent it should b* wholly discountenanced. It was not the first time that leave of absence had been granted by the Government and the grantee dismissed during his absence. In supporting the report of the committee he suggested that an address Bhould be sent to his Excellency tho Governor requesting that he would give effect to tho prayer of the petition. The Hon. Captain Fraser thought that the question before them lay in a nutshell. The Government had been deceived in the matter, and it had been proved that tho Hon. Mr Lahman's statements were not founded on fact. (Hear, hear.) The Hon. Mr Scotland thought that they ought to bear in mind that a great out-cry had been made in Westland for economy. The action had in his opinion been adopted in pursuance of that de- . mand. The imputations cast upon the Hon. Mr Lahman had been in bis opinion to some extent unfair. The Hon. Mr Hart spoke in favor of the motion, after which the Hon Messrs Lahman and Baillie replied. The following appears in the Independent of the following day :-^- The Hon. Mr Lahman called the attention of the Council to a statement 1 which, appeared in that morning's issue of the Independent, . in which the Hon. Colonel Brett was alleged to have said, "That he had listened with extreme disappointment to the explanation made by him (Mr Lahman), and strongly reprobated the indelicate manner in which statements of insubordination and disrespect to the Council hnd been made against Mr Schaw. These statements he (Colonel Brett) denounced as downright falsehoods, aud called upon the other members of the HouWj. in expressing their sentiments, to. coll things by their proper names — to call black black, and; white white." Ha called upon' Colonel Brett to- say whether or not this report was covrect. The H,on. Colonel Kenny asked whether or npt an application of this kind should not be made "in connection with the authorised record of their proceedings— the report in Htousard. He thought if. hpn. members, were called upon to affirm anything they may have said in their places, in, the Council, the Hansard report Jhopld be taken as their authority upon ihe.subjpct. It might place members in a, very awkward position to call upon them to cay whether a newspaper report was correct or, not, and afterwards when Han--B(f,rd was published to find, that the words did not appear in the authorised record. T,he Hpn. Mr- Mantell demurred to the IJatuard report being accepted as the only authorised report of their proceedings. , 'llihe Hpn. Mr Fraser expressed W& belief that the report as it appeared in. feW jjaper was perfectly correct. Permission having been given, to the Hon. Colonel Brett to answer &c question as put, ho said that his answer would be very short. The report alluded to was wholly incorrect. He washed, however, to be perfectly explicit on the point, and in pursuance of thajt desire, he had to inform them thatv what- he did say was ten times strongec than had been reported. Tho Hpn.', Colonel Whitmore pointed out tjfrajb a notion had been tabled for appointment of a Select Committed to inquire into the circumstances of this matter, and that the whole thing had better bo lfcft over for tho confiscation of that committee.

Major' Heath, a gentleman, froin.Geelbng, has lately been visifyg. Stewart's. Island, purchasing oysters. B>ijtabfo. for, forming ah artificial bed in Coriqjßay, He, was a passenger by thq.Jiangi^otopn her last trip but one for Melbourne, taV»ng a large quantity of oysters w^h' hini % which he succeeded in landing ia good condition.