THE NO-CONFIDENCE DEBATE.

Grey River Argus, Volume XII, Issue 1276, 31 August 1872, Page 2

THE NO-CONFIDENCE DEBATE.

— ■■■♦.. — *. The following is an extended telegraphic^^ report of Mr Vogel'u . reply, to the arguments used by the members. of the Opposition during the debate on Mr Stafford's resolutions :-r- ; ei'^k \ •■:■ * ■■' He said th.ati{n<rejßfe,Stafiord had led "- the Opposition the Government had bo :j---reason to complain of any fictitious opposition, and the present motion was a perfectly fair one, although it'was certainly a singular way of showing that he (Mr Stafford) had no desire for office. In reference to Sir David Monro's accusation about the Colony buying rails for Brogden, the Colony had the money, while if Brogden advanced capital he would require interest on it. After replying at some length to the remarks of Messrs Collins, Rolleston, and Johnston, and quoting Mr Bolleston's no-confidence speech in 1869, he alluded to the change in opinion-, of Mr Bunny and MrFitzherbert, relating some facts to show how difficult it was for the General Governmt nt to carry on the business at headquarters of a Provincial Government. In reference to the charge of inability to grasp details, he referred to the Brogden contracts Nos. 1 and 2, every detail of which had passed through his hands in London. These contracts were then deemed singularly favorable to the Colony. In 1870 Mr Stafford himself, judging from his Timaru speech, would have been ready to jump at such contracts, and it was unfair now to view them according to the light of subsequent changes of events ; they should be looked; a£ from the standpoint of the time when they were made. He did not think thai Mr Stafford was ever in earnest regarding hi& expressions of desire for immigration and public works, •.„ which ihe Government had been from when, a few weeks after taking office, they asked for L 30,000 for North Island roads, to the present time. Iri reply toMrCollina's statements of excessive travelling allowances, he said that the position of Colonial Ministers was more and more recognised ac Home, and had been so maintained. If the House thought the allowances hie drew excessive, he would willingly refund them. He reviewed the whole history of the Brogden contracts, and quoted innumerable precedents to show tjiat it wag useful elsewhere tb'let large railway wbrfcV by private arrangements', iristeadoilfy public tender. Regarding Pfondfoot's. and Jtyrrest's offer to undertake ~thi railway works, the Government attached no im-" portance to them, as in reply to another offer last session, Mr Proudfoot was informed that under the resolution of the House the wor<B in question had been given to Messrs Brogden. Knowing, therefore, that the offer -could not be accepted, they were safe in making any sort of. a one. The first thingthe Government did was to determine ;th.e time and order of the works to be constructed, and then, in order to save time, until the-, tenders could be given, the temporary .10.:;. per cent, arrangement was, made with Broaden for a few works. He did not think this excessive, although Brogden would be satisfied with five per cent, had the English contracts been carried out. In the first order for rail, and for material for two. workshops -for the use of ~ all contractors, one at AucklauoV and the other at Dunedin, Br6|den Is"asswtance1 s"asswtance was valuable and he, received' com*^ mfesionj 6ut "ou subsequent large orders it f-. had been refused^ In reference to the Mataura and Invercargill line, Brogden's first tender was L 182,49 2; Mr Car-^ ruthers reported this to >be ■too high, L 138,425 being his estimate. ; -Brogden 'a tender was therefore refused, and he wa3 told that the Government would not give anything above Mr Carruther's estimate, which was L 22,000 beyond Brunton's. lVfr Brogden, after going through the items again tendered for L 139,85 6; which Mr Carruthers' advised the Government to iccept, although it wasf Ll 6oo above his >wn estimate. In this tender Mr Brogden sranted a guarantee against a rise in the )rice of iron and ten^pejLcenjt..on its cost. Che" Government estimated rboth items md accepted a'tender fdrL86,697. The me would now be completed f0rL137,000, >r L2BSG below the tender which Mr CarMithers advised the Government to ac:ept as reasonable. With reference to he Clutha line, he reviewed all the* prorincial negotiations for its construction,.reninding the House how Mr Reid had, ridi luled his statement in Dunediu, that it ould be done for 1.270,000,- when Mr lieid sauted to spend 1400, Q0Q, on it and gire he promoters of a company a bonus of j15,000 hesides. The present cost would bo ;27G,000, notwithstanding the rise in the irice 'of iron. The whole railway would <c the cheapest In the world and wou'd iot cost above LSOOO per mile. If Mr Jrogdeu made money on his contracts he

would do it by skill, and he would deaen c it, for he had also the risk of loss. He referred to the terms the Otago Province gave for the Port Chalmers railway, which Government was now negotiating to pnrchase. They had also instructed the A^ent-General to endeavor to redeem the Port Chalmers railway debentures in London" at pO^'although the Province sold them, at 80. Inreftfenoe to his original : budget, in 1870, and v the calculations he then 1 made, they date from the time the" money, would be raised. Tho first ' three years elphe on June, 18*4, and before that he still hoped to see a profit of LIOO,OOO a-year realised from the railways. His original scheme, putting aside the railway estimate, had not been carried out, but the land sales showed an increase of L 139,000, and surely some of that was indirectly owing to the present policy— the sale to Colonel Fielding was directly so. fledefended the Agent-General and protested against condemning him after only one year's trial in a difficult and novel position. In reference to Mr Gillies'a charges about Fort Bfiiomart, the tenders had been called for privately, and letters from Auckland stated that the present contractor was likely to be a heavy loser. He defended the San Francisco mail *ervice, and denied that it had Btopped the formation of an English Company. That was owing to the outbreak of the German war, as he could show. (Mr Vogefthen read official letters giving this reason.) Except in the Land Transfer and Telegraph departments, the depart-

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. tion.. It. is a very brittle affair, and had a chip broken out of one side when I got it, so that the material of which it is made is fully exposed, and the story about grains of gold is utterly false. With reference to Red scar Bay, to which the Maria was bound, and which seems to have the atrongast attractions at present, I may say a word or two We anchored under a headland at the east side of the bay, and remained three daya. So far as we could see, there is no safe anchorage in the bay. It is over twenty miles in breadth, and quite open to the sea, so th»t vessels anchoring in it during the stormy seaiou would bo in constant peril. Had the ill-fated Maria succeeded in reaching it, she would have found no safety, aa her voyage was undertaken at the very worst season of the year, and her party, instead of the Eldorado they had pictured to themselves, would have found a great mangrove swamp extending for miles along the coast, and how far inland we had not the opportunity of ascertaining ; and they would have found the country in possession of its natiye and rightful ownera, with whom they could have held no communication. And if they had attempted to take possession of land without an understanding with the natives, quarrels would at once have arisen, loss of life on both sides would have followed, and unless a remnant had tacaped to their vessel and fled, the probability is that the whole party would have pemhed."

mental expenditure had decreased BJnce the present Government liad come into office, and the increase in the cost of those was far below the increase in the business. He also excluded the Native and Defence Department. He denied that the Colony was in a bad financial condition. After paying off LIOO,OOO of deficiency bilty, they still had LIO,OOO to the credit. Although no power had been asked during the session to re-issue such bills, he, on Saturday paid off the LIOO,OOO, and on that day the Bank balance of the Colony after paying this, stood thus :— To the credit of the Consolidated Fund, L 62.600, or total credit to all funds, L 318,000. Taking the estimated revenue and liabilities up to the end of October, there would be a balance of LIIGjOOO to the credit of the Consolidated Fund at that date. When was the Treasury ever in such a condition before ? He declared that now a less number of members of the Assembly received appointments from the present than from the previous Government. The Government was, and always had been willing to accept assistance frjm the Provinces, but only lately had that been cordially given in some Provinces. The Government were not aware of Mr Gillies'a offer of Provincial officers to carry on public works in the north of Auckland. He would gladly receive Provincial assistance, but he ■would not consent to any formal delegation of control. Since the Government took office the Defence expenditure had been reduced enormously, whilst during that period only 136 lives had been sacrificed, against 772 under their predecessors. He believed that the state of the Colony did credit to the Government. The appointment of a Resident Minister for the Middle Island had been tried as a temporary experiment ; but owing to departmental difficulties, the experiment had not worked well, despite the great ability shown by the Resident "Minister, and at the end of the session the separate establishment would be discontinued, and t^e Ministerial portfolios would be redistributed. Regarding the absence oi Ministers from the seat of Government, now that their number was increased, thej would always take care to visit ail parti of the Colouy. It would be a reproacl to constitutional government if the me tion were carried; for it showed that mer not measures influenced the decision, Ministers had personally no great desin to retain office, bnt were beund to resisi the motion to the utmost.