GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Globe, Volume XXIV, Issue 2620, 30 August 1882, Page 3

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

[PESSS ASSOCIATION TELSaSAH.I

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Tubed ay. August 29. CANTERBURY AGRICULTURAL COLLltGii. The Hon (Jol. Bketf mored for a Select Committee to enquire into the Management of tho Canterbury Agricultural College; stating that there tea* u very unfavorable impression abroad as to the conduct of tbestablishment. After some debate the motion was withdrawn through the end of the session being so near. ALIENS BILL. The Council determined to adhere to their amendments in the Aiions Bill, to which the House hae disagreed, and managers were speointed. BILLS. Tho Native Reserves Bill and the Reserves in the Mining Districts Bill wore rood a second time without debate. Several Bills were pasted through committee, and the Council adjourned from 5 to 7.30. EVENIN G SI I 1 TING. The Couacil resumed at 7.39. BILLS. _ Tho Pharazyn Disability Removal Bill Vtc thrown out on the voices. The North Timaru Cemetery Sola Bill wac read a second time. The Gladstone Recreation Reserve Bill was thrown out on the motion for committal by 14 votes to 8. Tho Council rcre at 9 o’clock. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Tuesday, August 29, Tho House met at noen. PROTECTION OF TELEGRAMS BILL. This Bill was reported from the Legislaliva Council with amendments, which were agreed to. QUESTIONS. Replying to Mr Sutton, T- e Hon. Mr Bryce said that Government understood that pctili.'uer Walter Shrimpton wr.s satisfied with the action taken, and that there was no further intention of taking the opinion of the Court of Appeal as to whether tha Natives’ land du'y paid by him was Correct'y assessed by the chief judge. Replying to Mr Pyke, The Hon. Mr Bryce said the Government considered the police were fairly well paid, and that no addition to present rates of wages was contemplated. Tho claims of long selvice men store at preEsnt under coniiieia* tion.

Hep-lying to Mr Wright, The Hon. Mr Dick said the Government would be prepared to take eteps to supply tbs public libraries with copies of a treaties on the grape vine by Dr. Fredk, Mohr. Replying to Mr Daniel, The Hon. Mr Dick said a rubaidy for the libraries would be proposed on the supplementary estimates, and if passed would be

distributed among libraries without delay, oure being taken that small libraries would Rave a fair share of the sum. Replying to Mr Thomson, The Hon. M? Rollbston eaid the expense of a forest conservation was so great that the Government could not consent to timber licenses being made county revenue. Replying to Mr Tole, The Hon. Mr Dick eaid, that in the case of Wren, cf Auckland, charged with embezzlement, a miscarriage of justice appeared to have taken place, and amendments in the liarcoay Act would be made so as to meet the requirements of similar cases. Replying to Mr Feld wick. The Hon. Mr Dick said it was so late in the session that the Government did not propose to press the Bankruptcy Act this session. The Bill would be circulated during the Tscess, eo as to enable the mercantile public to form an estimate as to its provisions. Replying to Mr Steward, The Hon. Major Atkinson said the 10 per cent, reduction had been generally restored ou salaries of officials.

The House adjourned at 1 p.m, On resuming at 2,

In answer to Mr Barron, The Hon. Mr Johnston said that he would make enquiries as to accepting a free grant of land for a railway station between Oaversham Bad Burnridp. In answer to Mr Ta Wheoro, as to whether the Government had carried out the recommendations of the Native affairs committee on the petition of Hori Patiwhera, The Hon. Mr Bryce said some of the teports had not yet been concluded, and as fa} ;the petition of Wiremu Waitangi, it was the intention of the Government to give effect to the recommendations of committee.

Replying to Mr Mollraith, The Hon. Mr Dick said the Government bad completed arrangements with the Hon. Wm. Robinson for his share of the cost of the lower Hurunni bridge. Roads from that bridge to the Waiau River and Gore Bay have been survived. The Hon. W. Robinson was prepared to give land for the two roads known as Constitution and Kaiwaru. The Dog Registration Act was in fores in the Cheviot County. bills. Leave wm given to the Hen. Mr Bryce to introduce the Amnesty Bill, MurimotuRangipo Agreement "Validating Bill, and the Groymcuth Native Reserve Bill, On the motion of Mr M.jW. Gbben, the BUOoadmoats made by the Legislative Council TO tho Employers Liability BUI were agreed to. A message was received from the ActingGovernor enclosing a Bill to amend the Counties Act. Bead a first time. . The Council’s amendments re Froteotion Of Telegrams Bill were, on Mr Fbldwick’B motion, agreed to. NEW PLYMOUTH HABBOB BOABD. Replying to Mr Wright, The Hon. Major Atkinson said the attention of the Government .had been called to the proceedings of the New Plymouth Harbor Board on the 24th of July last, when, without a q coram, they resolved to spend a portion of Jtho Board’s funds in the purchase of land from the Public Hall Company. He believed there was some doubt as to what constituted a quorum, and, apart from that, the Government oonld not be held responsible for the act of a local body. The trustees of the 25 per cent, of land fund were all responsible men. The Marine Engineer had not made any official report on tho progress of the work, but he communicated to him (Major Atkinson) an opinion that the work was being fairly well done, althongh perhaps there might be unnecessary extravagance in the mode of procedure. SECOND HEADINGS. The following Bills were read a second time:—To Aroha Township, Borough of Hamilton Boundaries, Auckland Museum Endowment, Auckland Improvement Acts Amendment, Explosives and Dangerons Goods. LAW PRACTITIONERS BILL. The Hon. Mr Dick moved tho second reading of the Law Practitioners Bill. He explained that the Bill differed from the one which passed that Chamber a few weeks ago, inasmuch as it required an examination in general knowledge as well as law. Articles of indenture were also dispensed with. The motion was carried, and the Bill was read a second time. BO ADS AND BRIDGES CONSTRUCTION BILL The Hon. Major Atkinson moved the second reading of this BUI. The main featuro was to set apart the money, and leave it to be distributed by self-acting machinery for distriot road purposes. No grant was proposed to be made. Thera was simply - provision for advances. The only works in which the Government had any discretionary power were in the oases of accident arising from roads or bridges being washed away or otherwise destroyed. The 20 per cent, cf the land fund was to be set apart for opening up the Grown lands. They desired to see the Bill passed, but in committee they would be prepared to accept reasonable amendments. He asked them to view the Bill as a provision made for the local bodies. Whatever the machinery might bo, he thought they would agree with him that this must be the guiding principle of their administration, unless they were prepared to take over main roads and provide for them fay annual votes.

Mr Mohtgomeby pointed out that the Government had moat extensive powers in the matter of defining the main roads. The proviso that they should be approved of by the Hoose was sound in theory, hut practically it would haye very little effect. The mode of finance was not by any means that complete service of general and local finance aa he wonld have desired. Its tendency was to place the local bodies at the mercy of the central power, •whereas they should be in a great measure independent of that power. They were borrowing at 5 per cent., and lent it out to the local bodice at 4. He never could have that anomaly explained satisfactorily. It was not a sound system of finance. Why not make the rate charged the eame as that paid. The general taxation of the country would be left to make good this 1 per cent., and that was, as he had observed, not by any means a ocund system of finance. The maohmery was admirably designed to place the local bodies at the mercy of the General Government, and on that reaeon he would vote egainst its second reading. Indeed, he hoped it would share a fate similar to that of its predecessor of last year. Mr Wynn Williams thought the administration of the Bill as it stood would be a difficult one. Great complications would arise as to how these moneys were to be refunded by the various Boards. It was rather curious that in this Bill local special taxation was provided for, while at the same time that olase of taxation was stoutly repudiated in the construction of railways, and yet all the objections applicable to the latter applied to this Bill. They had mode main roade of a very superior order, as witness the main roads from Olmatohuroh and Dunedin. They wore made out of general revenue, but now, for the future, any one wanting main roade through his property would have to contribute one - fourth of the coat,That seemed to him most unfair. It was an argument which weighed when the question came up in connection with the railways, and he was at a loss to know how it did not weigh now. Then he could see that a conflict of authority was likely to arise. Supposing one county wanted to make a road and the adjoining county declined to make thp remainder of the road through its territory, the action of tho one would bo neutralised by that of the other. Then it wonld tend to create a most pernicious system of log rolling. It would give the Government of the day mote power in that direction than any Act in operation. Under these circumstances he could not support the Bill, Mr Sutton supported the Bill. He admitted that the mode of distributing funds to the local bodies raised a suspicion of favoritism. On the other hand it was plain on a minute’s reflection that all me*'- , lor raising and distributing the were more or lesaexpoeed to that imputation. Ho was told that the local bodies ought to be left to tax themselves, but he contended that it would be utterly impossible to open up the country by that means. The subsidy system had proved itself to be a most unworkable one. It gave to those that had, and took from those that had not.

Mr Eathgatb looked upon the measure as designed by the Government for centralising purposes, and not for the social well-being of the community. The whole principle of the Bill was bad. It proposed grants in aid, which was a most reprehensible practice. Loans to local bodies were equally bad. If there were funds for distribution then they ought to be distributed on some fair and equitable basis, and not leave it to the opsration of favoritism. They could not have a

place like Taranaki bolstered up, while other places of more importance were neglected. The amount of £IC 0,000 would be a mere nothing amongst so many local bodies. Let them absorb the land fund or increase the property tax, rather than see these local bodies pauperised as they would be under this proposal. It would bo better to allow these bodies to go into the money market and borrow what they required rather than leave them at the mercy of the Government. He would not allow them to go to the English market. He would restrict them to the local market, and if that was once known to be an established scheme money for the purpose would find its way into the colony more than sufficient for all their requirements. On every ground he objected to the Bill before them. Mr HubßT blamed them for condemning the Bill without propounding a better remedy for the difficulty. Ho reviewed the present system and showed that the proposal in the Bill would be a great improvement. Therefore he supported the Bill. Captain McKenzie approved of the proposal for maintaining district roads. He objected, however, to the proposals re main roads, and would like to see it struck out. Mr Moss said the Bill meant more borrowed money—money taken ont of the Saving Banks, &3., for which Treasury bills were floated. The principle of the Bill was a very bad one. Mr Smith looked upon the Bill as an improvement on the subsidy system. He would support the Bill, subject to the understanding that in committee he would move in the direction of getting alterations made in the details of the measure. Instead of submitting plans, &c., for the approval of the Government, ho thought it would be sufficient to have these plans approved of by the District Engineer. MrHoi,MEB opposed the Bill. Interrupted by the 5 30 adjournment, EVENING SITTING. The House resumed at 7.30 , and the debate was continued, Mr W. O. Buchanan supported the Bill. Mr W. Thomson opposed. Mr Pyib also opposed the Bill, contending that it was another step towards destroying local self-government, and centralising all power and dominion in the Government at Wellington. It was a Bill admirably adapted for the North Island purposes, but for the South it was absolutely useless. Mr Hutchison criticised the Bill adversely, giving it as his opinion that the Government was either nnable or unwilling to produce a workable scheme of local self-government. Mr DbLautoub agreed in the opinion that the Bill would not suit Southern New Zealand, The settlers consisted largely in the interior of Otago, for example, of innholders, and having at best a precarious tenure. They would always be found voting against improvement. It would principally benefit the freeholders, as they would be ready to rate themselves in order that they might materially improve their holdings. The trust funds were always to be available to the extent cf £IOO,OOO. That was a peculiarity of this Bill. The Government would not acoept the debentures of the local bodies as against the trust fund. That showed tho doubt as to the value of these debentures. A single bridge casting £SOOO would mean an appropriation by the local body of at least £SOO per annum. Now, such a work, however necessary, would be opposed by the settlers, who were not likely to be benefited by such work, Mr Fergus believed in the measure, on the principle that a half loaf was better than no bread. He would be prepared to accept the Bill, subject to an amendment in the vital parts. He would also labor to get restored, if not this session, at all events at seme future time, the 20 per cent, of the land fund, of which the districts had been unjustly deprived. He criticised the subsidy system adversely, saying that it gave more than was required to some counties, and withheld what was necessary from the needy counties. He would have preferred seeing the power taken ont of the hands of the Government, and as was at one time proposed vested in the hands of a non-politi-cal Board.

Mr Maoandrbw said that the previous speaker had talked about tho land fund. Had ho been able to depend upon the support of him and his friends, he would have tabled a motion to tho effect that no system of looal finance was satisfactory from which the land fund was excluded. The looal bodies should be put in a position to raise money for their own purposes. Originally tho theory was that the body that raised it should be allowed to spend it. They were now reversing that very prudent adjustment. He would vote against the Bill. Mr Seddon gave it as his opinion that the Bill would not suit the condition of affairs on the West Coast,

Mr Dodson looked upon the Bill as one that would suit the requirements of the colony. It had been objected that no provision was made for the towns and cities. He apprehended the towns oonld well afford to look after themselves. It was the outlying districts that required to be fostered. It again had been objected that the poorer districts would benefit by the Bill. That was, to his mind, one of its strongest recommendations. He Would be very sorry to see looal bodies getting power to borrow unless under the contract of Parliament. He would cordially support the Bill. Mr Joyce designated the Bill as a mechanism of delusion. It made the local bodies believe they were getting something when in reality they are getting absolutely nothing. It would have a demoralising effect on their legislation. Instead of coming to Wellington to legislate they would more than ever be driven to hunt after Ministers and propitiate their good ’graces in order that they might secure something for their particular districts.

The Hon. Major Atkinson, in reply, said he was astonished at many of tho viewe expressed. The argument of many of these amounted to this: The Government is corrupt; members are corrupt; and tho local bodies are corrupt; in fact they lived, moved, and had their being in a perfect atmosphere of corruption. The one object tho Government had in view was to remove the money from all danger of political pressure, If in oommitleo a better way could be shown to achieve this purpose the Government would be ready to accept it. The law laid down in the Bill how the money was to bo applied, and how could corruption be practised in that case. Before any money could be borrowed a special rate would have to be levied. To hie mind no better security could be given. In regard to what had been said about his not making over the debentures to the local bodies, the faot was that the money wonld have to be borrowed in tho first place before it could be distributed, or the debentures wonld issue. If the people sent members pledged to get a remission of these advances, then they would just have to bear its repayment in some other way. They were liable for its repayment, and if they did not pay it in one way they wonld have to do so iu another. Main roads meant county roads, and he meant to say that there was not a county in the South Island but would take advantage of it. In further support of that, only a very small proportion of these counties had returns answers adverse to the Bill, It would rest with the counties to say whether they wanted a particular road made or not, and the making of one road wonld not be dependent in any way on the consent of any other county. It would be absolutely impossible to sever the finance of the local bodies from the General Government more than it was proposed by tho Bill, inasmuch as that they both derived their revenue from tho same source, viz., tho ratepayers’ pockets. After studying the question for three years he had no hesitation in saying that this was the most practicable scheme he could devise. The Bill only dealt with the construction of main roads, and not with the maintenance of these roads. The motion for the second reading was put, Ayes, 34 ; noes, 17, RAILWAY TARIFF. On the motion for going into Committee of Supply, Mr I. Wilson moved—“ln the opinion of the House encouragement should be given to local productions for export by a readjustment of tho rates of railway freight. That it appears to this Honse that the freight on agricultural produce is too high, and that the railway tariff should be readjusted with a view to a substantial reduction before the next grain season.’’ After cons : derable discussion this was agreed to on the voices. Mr J. Green then moved a further amendment on the question on going into supply—- “ That the proposed county of Waihemo should cot be proclaimed a county under the Act.”

After some discussion the debate was adjourned, and the House rose at 2 .30 a.m.