GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Globe, Volume XXIV, Issue 2562, 24 June 1882, Page 3

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

(PHB PBBBB AMOOIATIOir.J LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Tuesday, Junb 23. The Council met at 2,30, but immediately adjourned to four, to enable members to take leave of the Governor. SECOND HEADINGS. On resuming, the Trades Marks Act Amendment Bill and the Waikato Oonfis oated Land Bill wore read a second time, AUCKLAND HA33OR BOARD BILL.

On the motion to go into committet on tho Auckland Harbor Board Bill, The Hon. Mr Writs on eaid the Oi moil had determined to put the rating olaus s in tho ordinary Bills, and also to provide t r a poll of tho ratepayers before a loan was raia. d, and tho principle shonicT not be departed from in this case, more especially as the

Otago Harbor Board Borrowing Bill would expect the same favor. The Hon. D'r. Pollen and tho Hon. Captain Fhasee tha same effect, while The Hon. Mr Williams, the Hon. Mr Johnson, and tho Hon. Mr McLean, said the resources of the Auckland Board were so

largo that rating powers were not wanted, and to provide for a poll being taken would be fatal, as tho City Corporation would not co-operate with the Board. Ultimately the debate was adjourned, and the Council rose at 5 p.m. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Friday, June 23. The House met at 2,30 and adjourned to 4, to allow Ministers to see tho Governor off. ASHBUBTON COUNTY COUNCIL. On the motion of Mr Weight, tho Ashburton County Council Empowering Bill was read a second time, QUESTIONS. Replying to Mr Taiaroa, Tha Hon. Mr Bbtoe said the Native Lands Court had jurisdiction in the Middle Island. Replying to Mr Hamlin, Tho Hon. Mr Johnston said it had come to the knowledge of the Government that tho ladies’ waiting room at Mercer Railway Station had on one occasion been uted for tho accommodation of lodgers, and the lessee had been cautioned against a repetition. The sale of liquors at these refreshment rooms was regulated by clause 58 of tha Licensing Act. As regarded this particular case the police reported that the place was well conducted. Replying to Mr Weston, Tho Hon. Mr Johnston said that during the time of the Exhibition at Christchurch excursion trains had been provided for, and ho saw no necessity for increasing the number during the forthcoming visit to Christchurch of members

Replying to Mr Fulton, Tho Hon. Major Atkinson said the Government had under consideration the propriety of instituting a pension fund for all branches of the public service, the cost of which should be provided for by a compulsory and proportionate deduction from tho salaries and wages of persons employed in the Civil Service.

Replying to Mr Tawhai, The Hon. Mr Johnston said the chiefs of Te Taou hapu, Ngahatu, upon whose lands certain railway stations had been erected had no claim, ns the land was given rears ago to the Government by deed of cession. Replying to Mr Bracken,

Too Hon. Mr Dick eaid that the case of Farnio, a teacher in tho Dunedin Nermal School, and dismissed by the Education Board for writing a letter to one of the papers, was one with which tha Government had nothing to do, as it rested wholly with the Education Board. Replying to Mr Levestam, The Hon. Major Atkinson said other steamers besides the Mohaka and To Aro had transgressed the law on the occasion of the visit of H.M.B. Nelson. It was to such a trifling extent that no conviction was likely to be obtained, consequently no prosecution was instituted. Replying to Mr Beetham, The Hon. Mr Dick said the Government had ns means for relieving the commissioners of secondary education of tho liabilities attaching to their reserves, but a Bill would bo introduced which would probably have that effect. MOTIONS. The following motions were put and carried :—(Mr Johnston) —“That a committee be appointed, to consist of five members, to consider and report upon the propriety of giving the consent of the Governmontj to the reference of Brogden claims under the provisions of the Government Contractors Arbitration Bill, 1872, the committee to consist of Sir John Hall, and Messrs Maoandrew, Fulton, Montgomery, and the mover”; (Mr O’Oallaghan)—“That the House resolve into committee to consider an address to the Governor praying that a portion of tho amount paid up to 1880 for incidental expenses to several Boards of Education maybe restored, and will recommend for appropriation this year a sum of 5s •,-er child on tho average attendance at district schools, with a view of enabling tho Boards to return the 10 per cent, deducted from the salaries of schoolmasters.” PBITATB BILLS COSTS BILL. Oa tho motion for tho committal of the Private Bills Costs Bill, Mr Macandbew obj ected that it was altogether uncalled for, and eaid that tho second reading had been passed without due consideration, It was arbitrary and unfair in its provisions. Mr Kelly concurred in the objection.

Mr J. O. Bbown followed in the same strain, and moved it bo committed that day six months.

Mr Wynn Willia spoke o' the enormous expense of private Bills introduced into Parliament, and suggested that that was a subject which demanded careful attention. i ke Hon. Major Atkinson said it was but right that if an unjust Bill was brought forward. the persons interf-etod in opposing should have their costs. On the other hand, it was similarly fair that if frivolous objections were made, the objectors should pay the cost* of such unnecessary objection. He would have tho objection of the pewrious speaker inquired into, and such relief ae might appear necessary provided for. He admitted that delay might be judiciously asked, and ho would agree to a fortnight's adjournment. Mr Hamlin said tho Bill was one altogether in the interests of the public. After further discussion, the motion for adjournment for two weeks was carried. The House adjourned at 5.25, EVENING SITTING. The House resumed at 7.30. COMMITTEE OP SUPPLY. On the motion for going into Committee of Supply, Mr Daeqatillb said ho was no mouthpiece of tho Opposition or any section of the Opposition, but he desired to make a few remarks upon the financial statement, and ho was not actuated by a spirit of hostility. It had been rumored that a went of confidence motion would bo proposed. He was innocent of any suoh purpose. The first matter he aad to refer to was the sinking fund, that was involved in mystery. Ho could got no information on tho subject. Tho conclusion he had arrived at was that the fund did not exist as the Treasurer would have them believe. It was stated there were £2,000,000 of a sinking fund, but it existed only on paper, or our own promissory notes. The words “accrued fund” meont something with a foundation, something reliable. The so called sinking fund existed only in the colony’s own paper, and they had no right to call that an accrued sinking fund. He, therefore, trusted that the Treasurer would state the whole thing in its native deformity. Tho statement he made was merely a delusion and a snare. The :ext matter demanding explanation was that they began the year with a considerable credit, between £200,000 and £BOO,OOO, and yet some £430.000 of Treasury Bills had been issued. Between what was paid at interest for Treasury Bills and the interest paid by the Bank, there was, he calculated, a io“s of from £BOOO to £12,000 per annum. The next point was the proposal to raise in tho colony a loan of £250,000 from tho saving* of the people. This was an old proposal, but it was not made in the same bold terms a# heretofore. The Treasurer had already had two millions of the people’s money, ar.d he was hampering after more of it. Ho saw that the Banks held something •iko nine millions of the people’s money in New Zealand. He was sure the intention Was to experiment with the Banks of the colony instead of going to tho foreign market to raise loans. If the Treasurer raissd money in the colony

to that extent he would be inflicting an injury on the colony itself. It would not be the email depositors who would purchase the debenture*, but trust funds seeking permanent investment would invest in them. These moneys would have to be withdrawn to take up the debentures from the Government, The quarter from which these withdrawals would be supplied would be England, and the result would be that instead of Government getting English money at 5 per cent these investments would have to pay7J. In that way a great injury would be inflicted on the colony. This proposal to raise money in the colony for the necessities of the Government would be most disastrous to the community at large. The incidence of taxation was next referred to. It was impolitic to tax money and it was impolitic to tax improvements, The bondholders of this country

had to pay a property tax. If they shifted their capital and went to Melbourne or England they paid no property tax. He was told the interest was payable here, but he did not care whore the interest Wl.O paid. If the Treasurer was anxious to see accumulated wealth take up its abode in the country this property tax should bo changed. It operated in the most cruel and unjust manner upon settlors in Otago. The property tax showed an increase of 40 per cent, above the land tax; in Canterbury it was 50 per cent, increase, and in Auckland 30 per cent It wua land that had bi’en bonefitted hy the public works. A sum of £10,000,000 bad ' e n spent on railways, and although ho was til-1 they were paying 4 per cent., he asked had sufficient allowance been made for the depreciation of rolling stock, &c. Even supposing the profit to be 4 percent., he would remind them that they were paying far more than that for the money. There was even now a loss of over 1 per cent., independent altogether of the immigration costs and expenses. All that was undertaken for the benefit of the landed proprietors. Eor these reasons he said that they should return to tha land tux of the Grey Government Reference was next made to the proposed loan. They were told it was to bo raised, or rather expended, on a new principle. It was to be allocated before it was raised. That was a mere subterfuge. Tha scrambling was just as great now as ever. The Government knew that if their proposals did mot give satisfaction to their supporters they might just as well write out their resignations. This allocating of the lean was a mere sham. He asked them to remember the indignity pul upon the colony when they Inst went into the English money market. It was a groat insult, which a private individual would not have readily forgotten. The Bank of England would not advance £25,000 on five millions of their debentures, and even then, when they got the money, they were told to go and not return again for at least three years. He counselled them to pause for at least one year, for periods of depression come periodi cully. It was four years since tie last depression, and what guarantee had they that they would not have a renewal of such periods. During times of depression they could not atop borrowing. It was daring times of prosperity they could refrain. He know of no urgent demands for the completion of their railways Even Mr Maoandrew was making no demand for railway works in Otago, and he was a very glutton for public works expenditure. Mr Montsomeby understood they were going to have no financial discussion until the public works statement were brought down. If they were going to spend three millions of money, it was most important they should have the public works statement, at also the Local Government Bill, before them. Ho quoted authorities to show that in other colonies it was usual to have all policy measures before them at as early a date as possible. Either the Government would have to bring down the measures at once, or else he believed they would find that the confidence extended to them would be withdrawn. He had been told that the whole policy would bo too much for one debate. That was the greater necessity why tha first instalment should have been brought down at a much earlier date. Ho hoped they would fix a time definitely for bringing down these measures, and that it would bo an early date. Mr SeddOn reflected upon Mr Dargaville for bringing on the debate on the finances on an evening which had been specially set apart for the purpose of giving him an opportunity for moving a resolution re payment of members. The motion on that subject ho had to make was as follows :~“That members of the House of Representatives bo compensated for the expense incurred and time devoted by them to the legislation of the country, and that the said payment should be fixed by statute ; and (second) that an address be presented to the Governor requesting him to recommend that a sum of £25,000 be appropriated out of the consolidated revenues, payable every session, ond that a Bill bo introduced into Parliament to give effect to that object. The Si*bakbb ruled that tha second resolution could not bo put. An address could only be moved in committee of the whole. Mr Sedbon said he would move the first part of the motion, and went on to argue upon the importance of getting the honorarium question fixed on a permanent basis. He argued that there were men of ability in the colony who could not afford to devote themselves to the business of the country without some compensation Other colonies and countries had pursued this course with advantage to legislation and to the public. The unseemly spectacle of voting the honorarium year by year would be superseded. He reminded them that under triennial Parliaments they were put to increased expense. The object was to increase the amount paid to £3OO.

Mr Fish seconded the motion. He argued that the sum now paid was insufficient, if they recognised payment at all. Then as regarded having it settled by statute there could be no manner of doubt on that point. Ho believed it would operate beneficially if they paid their members liberally. He believed many useful men would be induced to enter Parliament, if they could in a pecuniary ae-se be put beyond the pale of temptation. Although not representing wealth in his own person, he was nevertheless in a sufficiently good way of business to make him independent as to whether the amount was £2OO or £3OO. Again, they knew that the session was of late cut short and useful legislation left in the lurch. No doubt the feeling that members were losing valuable time had to do with that feeling. The Hon. Mr Bbycb said that because Government had not brought dor-n n, Bill it need not be inferred that they were opposed to the payment of members. The principle had been wisely conceded by the House, and he agreed in the arguments used that it they were not paid the non-payment would promote class legislation, and in that way the loss would be much greater. The Government could not agree that the sum should be fixed at a higher rate than it was at present, still they thought it should be fixed, as the annual honorarium scramble was a most unseemly one. The Government would act very much in the direction of what they believed to be the wish of the House. Unless they could fir both Houses in the same way they would still have the evil to fear, at least in part. Mr Green and Capt. McKenzie supported the motion.

Mr HxrBSTHOtrsE argued that if the honorarium of members of the Upper House were not included in the proposed Bill ;thcy would have a very poor chance of getting anything at all. It was a well known fact that they would have voted more to themselves but for

the obligation they were under of voting a similar amount to the Legislative Council. Ho objected to the proposed increase, but would advocate its being fixed by statute. Mr CoNOliiY thought that it should bo left for the Government to fix the amount. All the House was required to do was to affirm tho principle o£ fixing the amount by statute. The motion ought likewise to have dealt with the Legislative Council. The Government, in dealing with the question, should cither fix the Legislative Council at the same or at all events oomo other amouut. If they had not all the responsibilities to face that members of the House had, they had nevertheless to attend Parliament, and to that extent they were entitled to something. By acting otherwise they would virtually say, “wo shall have none in the Council but men of wealth.” He also thought that the salaries of the Speaker and Chairman of Committees should also be fixed by statute. Ho was opposed to the proposed increase. In fact, ho would rather vote for a decrease. _ There never was any su®cient reason for voting the increase given a few years ago. The men who sat in that House ten or fifteen years ago, when tho amount was small, were in no respect their inferiors. Sir Gbobqb Qbest argued that legislation would be a great saving to the country, and recently two sessions were held and £420 wore paid to each member. On that occasion it was paid not only to that House, hut like-

wise to the Legislative Council. In that case financial legislation would be a saving. Again, there was no distinct arrangement as to whether a member leaving could bo paid for _ hia abseut time. He hoped the session would not be allowed to pass without getting the whole qoestion settled. What must be done for one Chamber ought to be done for the other. It would then have to bo considered whether the Council was properly formed. Were they to get this sum voted for life ? It would also come to be considered whether or not those Chambers were too large. Had Great Britain educated its children as they were doing, no one could say what the effect would have been on that country. A class

would have got into Parliament who would have had a most beneficial character on its Legislature. Here they were framing a different course. They were opening the Legislature to the greatest talent the oountry could produce, and to carry out that policy to its legitimate state the payment of members must bo provided for. The Government must, in producing the Bill, state what the amount should bo. That should be done during the present session.

Sir John Hall supported the motion. Ho regretted that the point had not hern settled long ago. He said nothing about tne amount. When in committee they could settle that question. It shot’ld be enough not to prevent any suitable man from coming thoio. On the other hand it should not b« sufficient to produce any pecuniary advantage. Every argument was equally favorable to the case of the Legislative Council. He whs sorry to hoar a “ No.” He thought the member would be ashamed to stand up and say that. (Mr Hutchison—‘■No, no.”) Ho was sorry to hear it. There ware many men who would be kept out of the Council if not for the honorarium. He was sorry the Council was not included in trie motion, but he was glad to hear that the Government had indicated its intention of dealing with both branches of the Legislature.

Mr Joyce thought it would be well to deal with the Council separately, A Bill of that kind would do good. It would direct atten-

iion to the constitution of that House. No doubt the last speaker had sympathies with the Council, as it on sundry occasions afforded him an asylum. He supported the payment of members, and spoke in favor of the motion ns it stood. He had no fear of what his constituents would say. He had had an opponent to contend with who sat in the last Parliament, and was spoken of seriously as a likely candidate for the Ministerial benches. Ho stood on the platform a poor candidate, ai d yet he recorded three times the number of votes recorded by his opponent. In that ease ho argued that the voice of the electors was in favor of the payment of members, Mr Swanson suggested that the honorarium should be fixed, but that the money should be fixed by the constituents; as when he first came to Parliament £IOO was paid, and the members wore just as anxious for reelection, and, when elected, as anxious to do their duty as they were now. Mr Moss reminded them that the Disqualification Act did not exist in those days, and that exemption was largely taken advantage of. No such inducements now existsd, consequently the condition of affairs was changed. Referring to the English Legislature, he said it was true that its members wore not paid, but they had the patronage of all the public offices, so that they were remunerated in another way.

Mr Sheehan said it was a fact that members had spoken against the honorarium, and then went into lobbies and hunted up members to vote for it. The time had come when such a state of things should be set at rest. The expense of elections had been greatly increased of late. Ho was not prepared to say what the amount should be. What he said was, have it settled, and settled for ever, or else abolish it altogether. Theie were stronger reasons for payment of members here than in Victoria, where they had one central town. Hero they had no such thing, and a member coming from Auckland had to leave all hia business behind. Then, so long as the Upper House remained as it was it would be unfair to deprive its members of the compensation they were getting. He would vote for the Bill. Every other person in the public service was paid in accordance with a statute, and the same should bo done in this case.

Mr Edthbbfoed supported the Bill, but objected to the proposed increase. Mr Keddon’s motion was put, and carried on the voices.

The original motion for going into committee of supply was then put and carried; Geological and Meteorological Department, £36,400.

Mr Joyce objected that the department confined its labors to the city of Wellington. There was a part of his district which he himself had been over, but not the Geological Department. He moved it should be reduced by £2OOO. Lost on the voices.

Mr Beddon moved a reduction of £175, being the amount of the proposed increase. He said that the part of the oountry he came from had never had any practical benefit from the department. Something more practical was needed than the department as it now stood.

The amendment was rejected, and the vote as printed passed.

Agent General’s Department, £3500. Passed. , Mr G-bobsb moved that the Committee report progress. He pointed out that the next vote, charitable aid, would create considerable discussion, and the evening was far advanced. Mr Montgomery, Mr Moss, and Mr Turnbull supported the motion, asserting that it was simply attempting to rush through the estimates when there was no actual necessity. The Committee divided.

Ayes, 18 ; noes, 40. Charitable —£40,000. Carried. .Lunatic Asylum—£4l,l6s. Item—lnspector of Lunatic Asylum*® and Hospitals, £IOOO. Mr Geokqb moved that it be struck out.

Mr Sheehan moved that progress bo re ported.

After considerable discussion, Mr George’s motion was negatived on the voices. Mr Dice stated that the office was not yet filled.

The total vote of £41,165 was then passed : progress was reported, and the House rose at 3.5 a,m.

WOEKIN& MEN’S CLUB.

A special general meeting of the members of the Working Man’s Club was held last evening at eight o’clock, Mr J. M. Thompson, president, in the chair. The Chairman stated that the business of the meeting was the reception of the balance sheet, auditors' report, and other matters. The balance sheet showed that the receipts for the six months ended March 31st wore £l’67 ;19s 7d ; expenditure £ll3O 9s, which loft a balance of £37 10s 7d to the credit of the club. The liabilities ware shown as £l3B 7a, the assets being stated as £7lB Is, the number of members being 344, of whom thirty-seven have leave of absence. The auditors recommended certain improvements in the manner of keeping a record of the transactions of the club, also tendering their thanks to Mr Shaw, the secretary, for his assistance.

The Chairman said he had explained the present system to the auditors, who thought it was as good as that suggested by them. Mr J. Parry moved, Mr Garrard seconded, and it was resolved—“ That the balancesheet be approved.” The auditors’ suggestions were unanimously referred to the finance ooinrniitee. The Chairman said the next, business was their new promises. A sub-committee had reported upon them, and as clause 5 of the conditions of sale provided that £IOO should' be spent on permanent improvements, and as nothing substantial could be done with that sum, it had been suggested that. £SO bo paid as part purchase money on August Ist. At the same time it would have to be seen that this would not prejudice the agreement. That the committee be authorised to call for tenders for necessary alterations, to be made at onoe, as the club must vacate its present premises on August 3rd ; such alterations not to cost more than £IOO.

A resolution was then proposed and adopted that the committee pay the £SO, and expend a sum not exceeding £IOO in alterations and improvements to the recently acquired premises in Oxford terrace.

One of the sub-committee (Mr Pricker) read a list of the proposed alterations, and it was agreed that tenders for the work should be at once called by advertisement. The question of an entertainment at the' Exhibition building, in aid of the funds, was nsxt mooted. The Chairman stated that M, Joubert would givo them one-fifth of the proceeds,

but suggested that a pr ocession should be a part of it.

A member of the club who had bought Ye Old English Fair was willing to lend it for the occasion, and to nee it where they thought fit. He had the whole paraphernalia, and it was at their disposal. Consideration of the matter wai deferred till after the Exhibition closed. A unanimous vote- of thank* to Mr Parry for his kind offer of the Old Bnglyshe Fayre was carried by acclamation. This was all the business.