GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Globe, Volume XXIV, Issue 2544, 3 June 1882, Page 3

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Friday, June 2. BETUBNS. On the motion of the Hon. Mr Stevens a return was ordered of the number of applications made under the Adoption of Children Act, 1881. He said the Act was but little availed of, inasmuch as those who wished to adopt children from orphanages objected to pay the fees prescribed by the Act. THE AFFIRMATIONS BILL. The Affirmations and Declarations Bill was read a third time and passed. SECOND HEADINGS. The Bank and Bankers Act Amendment Act Amendment Bill and the Vagrant Act, 1866, Amendment Bill were read a second time. QUESTIONS. In reply to a question by the Hen. Dr. Menzibs, The Hon. Mr Whitaker said the Government had received no information respecting a self-acting electric buoy or self-acting fog horn buoy, but inquiries had been instituted with regard to fog signals, and correspondence on the subject had been carried on between the Agant-Qeaeral and the Trinity House in London. Papers had just bssn received by the San Francisco mail, with drawings and specifications of first class automatic screw signals, but the papers had not yet bean examined as there had not been time. The Council roan nt 3.30 n m HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. The House met at 2 30 p.m, petition. Sir George Qret presented a petition from Mr Garrard, setting forth that in November last, while pro-ecuting his candidature fra seat in this House for Auckland City, he was arrested and charged with malpractices in connection with the electoral roll, and after being tried was discharged. He prayed for compensation for the loss and injury sustained in consequence. EDUCATIONAL RESERVES. Mr Sheehan gave notice that he would introduce a Bill for the consolidation of all the educational reserves of the colony, and rendering the same available for the national educational system of the colony as a whole. LEAVE OF ABSENCE Leave of absence was granted to Mr Tawhai for a fortnight. QUESTIONS. Replying to Mr Seddon, The Hon, Mr Eolleston said the goldfields resident areas at present were practically freeholds. At all events they had a secure tenure, and he saw no necessity for a measure to make the residence areas occupied and registered for a period of twelve months freehold. Replying to Mr Postlethwaite,

_ The Hon. Mr Eolleston said that preparations wera being made for throwing open for sale rural pastoral lands of Canterbury in blocks of from 500 to 5000 (acres. The survey of 7000 acres had bsen completed. To make the land available for settlement roads would have to be provided, and he hoped shortly to bring down definite proposals on that head. Replying to Mr Seddon, The Hon. Major Atkinson said the Government d'd not propose taking any steps for the reduction of the fees paid under the Land Transfer Act. He had never heard any complaints as to these fees being at all exorbitant. Replying to Mr Steward.

The Hon. Mr Johnston said that it was not considered requisite to erect a ladies’ waiting room at St. Andrews railway station, but he would make farther enquiries. Replying to Mr Steward, The Hon. Mr Dick said ho now understood Waimate JConnty Hospital had a sum of. .£l5O owing to the fund which would be provided by the Government, and as to the further maintenance the whole question would have to be dealt with at an early date. Replying to Mr Steward, The Hon. Mr Johnston said provision would bo made for carrying oh the business of the railway at Makikihi and Waitaki North by the erection of yards and loading platforms for sheep and cattle. Replying to Mr Weston.

The Hon. Mr Dick said the Government did not consider it necessary to erect a courthouse at Nelson creek, or yet appoint a warden for Beefton district.

Replying to Mr Taiaroa, The Hon. Mr Bryce said effect would be given to the recommendation of the oommittee on the petition of Eewi Komarna and others. Replying to Mr Sheehan, The Hen. Mr Johnston said tenders would be called at an early date for the construction of the Thamea-Kopua railway. Replying to Sir G. Grey, The Hon Major Atkinson said no arrangement would be made by the Government to provide that the Premier should be a member of this chamber. Replying to Mr J. McKenzie,

The Hon, Mr Johnston said he would make enquiries as to the number of holidays during the year working men in the Government service in the other colonies are allowed, and it thought advisable similar arrangements would be made for the working men in the Government eervioe of thie colony. Replying to Mr W. White, The Hon. Mr Dick said if medical men in lunatic hospitals in the event of the death of patients made post mortem examinations on the patients it was a mistake, and intimation cf the fact would be given to med cal officers. Replying to Mr Hutchison, The Hon. Mr Dick said he knew of no precedent for prisoners under committal for trial for sedition remaining in custody being taken about by magistrates to Exhibitions, &0., but as this was a new country they should be allowed to establish precedents for themselves. When the estimates came down it would be seen out of what fund it was proposed to defray the expenses paid in that way for Te Whiti and Tohu. Replying to Mr Hutchison,

The Hon. Mr Dick said the Government was not expected to give information as to what extent the Public Health Act Amendment Act bearing npon the inspection of dairies and the purity of milk had been taken advantage of. Replying to Mr Morris, The Hon. Mr Bbtcb said the purchase of Ohinemutu block in the Upper Thames was being proceeded with. Replying to Sir George Grey, The Hon. Mr Johnston said telegraph poles had been pnlled down by the K atives at Eangiora and Bokianga, wco made a claim to the land. The resident magistrate had been instructed to see them, and arrange the matter. FIRST READINGS. On the motion of Mr McDonald, a Bill to Amend the Native Land Court Act, 1880, was introduced and road a first time. HIROKI. The Hon. Major Atkinson said in regard to the request to place the papers connected with Hiroki’a trial before the House he had looked into the matter and found that the request was unprecedented, unless where the circumstances were extraordinary. The case of Hiroki did not come within that case, and the papers would therefore not be tabled. JUDGMENT summonses. Mr Levestam asked the Colonial Secretary to reconsider his determination not to bring down any proposal for amendment of tho law relative to judgment summonses. He instanced a case in which a creditor had sent from Nelson a sum of money to defray tbs co;t of hia attending to answer to one cf the summonses, and the debtor used the money £cr filing hia schedule in bankruptcy. The Hon. Mr Dick said nothing had transpired to cause him to alter his determination. Bills relating to the E.M. Court would be brought belore them, and if tho member thought fit, ho might move in the direction of any amendment deemed requisite. PRINTING. The report of the Printing Debates Committee was road, race xmending that members should be allowed, free of charge, twelve copies of “ Hansard,” for distribution amongst their constituents. The adoption of the report was then moved. Mi Shrimski opposed. The House divided. Ayes, 49; noea, 23. The motion was carried. Wl PABATA’S PETITION.

Mr Macandrew moved the adjournment of the Orders of _ the Day, to enable him to bring in a motion—“ That the petition of Wi Parata be taken into consideration before further proceeding with tho West CoastPeaca Preservation Bill.” MjjtSnEEBAN suggested that the proper con eider the petition would be when the debate on the Peace Preservation Bill was proMr Macandrew replied ho did not wish it to appear as if the motion was an amendment on that Bill. The Hon. Mr Bryce said it must be regarded as an amendment on the Bill. The Government would not accept any amendment whatever on the second reading. Mr Macandrew offered to amend the motion, so as to read that the petition be considered forthwith. Mr Kelly argued that the petition could not be considered, ns it did not set forth that the petitioner had any authority to make the application on behalf of Tc Whiti. The motion for delaying the Orders of the Day was then put and negatived. CORRUPT PRACTICES PREVENTION BILL. The Hon. Major Atkinson moved the second reading of the Corrupt Practices Prevention Act Amendment Bill. Carried. The Standing Orders were suspended, and the Bill went into committee. _ . Mr Turnbull moved the followmg additional danse 11 Whereas on the trial of an election petition regarding the election of a member for the House of Beprosentativoa for tho Stanmoro electoral district, the Judges who, tried tho said petition found that VY H. Fllliet

had been guilty of an illegal practice, and declared the election void; and whereas snch finding has been reported to the House of .Representatives, and duly entered in the journals of the House, and whereas it is desirable that it should be referred to I °. na of the Jndgea who tried the pet:» tion to say whether in his opinion the said Walter Hippolyto Pilliet sheold be relieved from all or any of the penalties incurred by him through snch finding of the Ceurt. Re it therefore enacted that it shall be, and is hereby referred to his Honor Mr Justice Williams, one of the Judges who tried the said petition, to certify, and he shall forthwith certify, having regard to section 2 of this Act, whether in his opinion the said Walter H, Piiiet should or should not be relieved from any or all of the penalties or disqulaifications ha may have incurred by reason of anything he did in or abon the Stanmore election, and snch certificate shall forthwith be forwarded by the said Judge to the Speaker of the House of Representatives, and if the said Judge shall certify that in his opinion he—the said Walter H. Pilliett—should be so relieved, then, on the same being forwarded to the Speaker, the same shall be reported to the House, and thereupon the said W. M. Pilliett shall bo freed, discharged and indemnified from and against all penalties, forfeitures, incapacaties and disabilities which the said Judge shall specify in the certificate so given and forwarded by him, ae aforesaid.” Mr Weston objected, on the ground that its tendency would be to bring the Judges into the political arena, and by that means the purity and independence of the Judicial Bench would be imperilled. He would far rather see the House take upon itself the responsibility of removing these disqualifications without reference to the Judges at all. Mr Wynn Williams spoke in similar terms. He contended that as this was a penal statute the Judges ought to have the same discretionary powers as they had under other penal statutes. It was monstrous that, no matter what te circumstances of the offence might be, the Judges had no discretionary powers but to inflict the full penalty. Referring to the case more particularly referred to, he quoted from the Judges’ decision, from which he argued that if they had had the power they would have imposed a very light penalty indeed. He also referred to the case of impersonation by a member of the other chamber, the offence being much more serious than that of Mr Pilliet’s could bs accounted, and yet a merciful view was taken, and a very light eentence of one hour’s detention inflicted.

The Hon. Major Atkinson said that they had transferred all the duties connected with the working of the Act to the Judges, and it would be improper now for the House to interfere. He could see no likelihood of mixing up the Judges with political influences in the course proposed by the motion. It was fonnd that the penalties were too great for this particular offence and it was only carrying out the spirit of the Act to leave it with the Judges to say what measure of punishment should be meted out. If they once admitted this case into the House they would be establishing a very bad precedent, and every man who felt aggrieved would come to the House for relief, and the result would be that these election petitions would practically be restored for adjudication by the juonse and its election oemmittees.

Mr Kelly argued that this was a special case, and any special case ought to be dealt with by the House itself and by a separate Bill. Mr Conolly said that if both the Judges who tried the case had still been in the colony, ha would have objected to send the cam back to them. Now that one of the Judges was away from the colony, he objected the more strongly. He asked why they could not deal with it themselves. It was unfair to Mr Justice Williams to ask him to deal further with the matter, and he would be quite justified in refusing to deal with it. Be moved as an amendment a new clause to the following effect: —“Whereas on the trial of an election petition in regard to the election of a member for the House of Hopreeentatives for Stanmore electoral district, the Judges who tried the said petition found that Walter H. Pilliet had been guilty of an illegal practice, «nd declared the election void ; and whereas such finding has been reported to the House of Representatives, and duly entered in the Journals of the House ; and whereas it appears that the illegal act committed by the said W. H. Pilliet was of a purely technical character, and he should be relieved from the disqualifications imposed by the said Act; be it therefore enacted that the said Walter H. Pilliet is hereby freed and discharged from and indemnified against all penalties, forfeitures, incapacities and disabilities that he may have incurred by reason of anything ho may have done in and about the election held in and for the Stanmore electoral district in the month of December, 1851, and notwithstanding anything he may have done or omitted to do, he shall be eligible for election to a seat in the House of Representatives, and shall hold the appointments he held prior to the said election, and possess the privileges ha possessed prior to the said election as if he had not committed any offence under the Corrupt Practices Prevention Act, 1881, and no proceedings under that Act committed by him prior to the passing of this Act shall be commenced against him in any Court; provided that the foregoing provisions shall not be taken as altering or in any way affecting the certificate of the Judges that the said Stanmore election is void.” Col. Trimble spoke in favor of the motion, and Mr Montgomery in favor of the case being dealt with in a separate Bill. The motion and amendment were then pnt, when the latter was carried on the voices, and Mr Connolly’s new clause being acceded to, the Bill was reported as amended. The Bon. Major Atkinson said the third reading would be the first order of the day on Tuesday. The' House adjourned at 5.30. EVENING SITTING. The House resumed at 7,30. west coast peace preservation bill.

Mr Tomoana resumed the debate on the second reading of the Peace Preservation Bill. Ha approved of the speech made by the Native Minister, so far as these related to 'i'e Whiti and his people. He was in favor of Te Whiti being brought to the bar of the House. Mr Turnbull could draw no other conclusion than that they had been blameahlo in their nterconrse with the Native race. Ho reviewed he conduct of the Native race under the Grey Government. Ho concluded by announcing he would vote against the Bill, and would_ do so because it asked the House to constitute itself a tribunal for the trial of Te Whiti. Before the? could come to a just conclusion they won'd require to have tha whole of the evidence before them, but that was not proposed to be done. Mr Burst asked members to consider the responsibility of their utterances cn this s ihject, and what they would give rise to in tha Native mind. Their utterances were liable to create the most baneful effects. He dwelt at great length upon the difficulties encountered by the Native Minister in his efforts at Parihaka, and gave him unqualified praise for the manner in which he handled that delicate transaction. The Government had displayed no vindictiveness in the matter, but, on the contrary, had showed the very utmost clemency. If Te Whiti was sent for trial he would be imprisoned perhaps for a few months and then ha would return to his old haunts. That was the difficulty this Bill was designed to obviate.

Mr Fergus extolled the action of the Native Minister, and argued that the West Coast settlors about Parihaka ware as anxious to avoid war as they were in the South. It bad been argued that Te Whiti was beeping bis men in order, but he reminded them that Te Whiti’s own influence was liable to decay, in which case his people would he prepared to follow some other fanatic, in which case tha district would be kept in a constant broil. It would have been much better if Northern members tad left the Native difficulty alone, and allowed such men as the late Premier, the late Native Minister, and tha present Native Minister, who knew and had studied the Native mind, to deal with the subject. Mr Bracken said what was wanted was that Te Whiti should be allowed to come there and enlighten them on the snbjsot of the Native difficulty. There was a time when the Natives could have swept the Europeans out of the place, but instead of doing so they treated them with generosity, and ho blushed to think of the injustice they now sought to inflict on these same Natives. Mr Hursthouse reminded these pureminded Southern men who were so indignant at the injustice done to the Natives that too South Island got their estates from the Natives fora mere mess of pottage. They had come to that country, and made terms with the Natives, and it was the Natives who broke the compact That view of tha matter did away with a great deal of the sentimentality jnst indulged in. He defended the North Island from Mr Bracken’s imputation. Te Whiti had no real rank. The Natives in tha House were of far more importance than To Whiti ever was. Under these circumstances, was it not their bounden duty to restrain such en one, seeing that his detention meant the safety of bo many lives It was a mercy to save him from himself. His followers were the scum of the West Coast Natives.

Mr Morbis denied that any cause had been shown (or allowing Te Whiti to be hoard at the bar. Sie advocated the necessity for individual! ing tho Native title. Colonel Trimble had visited Te Whiti almost every week during his incarceration, and ha had never expressed the slightest wish to bo heard at the bar tf this House or any other bar. it had been said that Te Whiti had been locked up, although now ho was allowed certain liberty. The fact was that he had every opportunity of seeing his friends at all times. Ho looked upon the Bill as one that would ’save Te Whiti ye.t to be of serTice to his people. Ha denied that tho Europeans had acted unjustly to the Natives. He denied that because they had given money for certain lands that the confiscation had been taken off. It seemed to him that t heir very goodness was urged as an argument for their condemnation.

He asked tlsst the number of persons mentioned in the danse night fairly be increased, and also that the power? conferred on J. P.’s should be reconsidered, and a J.P. and Resident Magistrate substituted.

hik Geoege Gebt? asked if an alteration in committee would be accepted. He said he waa not aware of any opposition at present; on the contrary the members of what was known as the Opposition were left to exercise their own judgment. 1 he Hon. Mr Betcb answered that he won’d reply on the debate. He wonid also explain why they could not omit the preamble. Ha Would also state what the <--.overnment was doing, and prepared to do, in regard to the reserves. Mr Tawhaio asked if it was not the Europeans that introduced the Bible, and 1 now condemned Te Wfciti for acting up to it. He looked upon Te Wbiti’s work as carrying out the Scriptures. The treaty of Waitangi provided that the Maoris were to be treated the same as the European. How was Ta Whiti being treated ? As a loyal subject.? Why wa» it that the wrong was done first, and then the Government asked for an indemnity ? The petition was in his opinion ths right thing, and he should be heard, as he desired missionary operations. He said that in the early days they were told to lift up their eyes to Heaven and pray, and while they had their eyes so directed, the missionaries were busily engaged grabbing away their land. Bis word waa to he strong, and make one law for both races. .Mr J. Buchanan said that the utterances »! Sir George Grey had relieved him from party ties. So far from condemning the Government he told them that if they would make it more stringent he would support them. If they would bring in a law to arrest “ suspects ” ha would support them, for there were many snch on the West Coast. He meant the pakeha Maoris. Ho agreed in the opinion that much of their troubles had been occasioned by the policy of Sir D. McLean. Mr J. C. Beown and Mr Taiaeoa spoke against the Bill, and urged the necessity of To Whiti being heard at the bar cf the House. The Hon. Mr Bei ce having replied. The question wss then put that the Bill as printed be read a sc cond time. The House then divided.

The following is the division list Ayes. 52 : Messrs Allwright, Atkinson, Beetham, {Bryce, Cadman, Connolly.' Dick,] Dodson, Feldwick, Fergus, Fitzgerald (teller), Fnlton, Green, (Waikonaiti), M. W. Green (Dnnedln East), Sir G. Grey, Messrs Hamlin, Hobbs, Hurst (teller), Hursthonse, C. J. Johnston (Te Aro), J. Johnston (Manawatu), Kelly. Levestam, Levin, Mason, McDonald, Mcllraith, J. MoKe zia (Moeraki), McMillan, Mitchelson, Morris, Munro, O’Callaghan, Peacock, Pearson, Petrie, Postlethwaite, Rolleston, Rutherford, Sheehan, fchepherd, Stevens, butter. Button, Swanson, Tolo, Trimble, Watt, Whitaker, J. B. Whyte (Waikato), J. G. Wilson (Foxton ) Noes, 14—Messrs Bracken, J. C. Buchanan (Napier), Daniel, Da Lantonr, Duncan, Joyce, Montgomery, tMoss, Taiaroa, Tawhai, To Wheoro, Tomoana, Turnbull, White (Sydenham). Pairs—Ayes, Messrs Weston, Seaton, Wynn Williams, H Thomson, J. Evans Brown. Noes —Messrs Macandrew, Hutchison, Ehrimski, Holmes, Bathgate,