THE ELECTIONS.

Globe, Volume XXIII, Issue 2388, 28 November 1881, Page 3

THE ELECTIONS.

ME EOLLESTON AT PAPANUI. Mr Eolleston addressed a meeting of the electors of Avon in the Papanui Town Hall on Saturday night. There was a large attendance, and the chair was occupied by Mr William Norman, who briefly introduced the speaker. Mr Eolleston, who on coming forward waa received with cheers, said :—Gentlemen, before proceeding with the business of the evening 1 should like to make a few remarks of a personal character, which will not occupy much of your time. I would first make allusion to a very humorous letter which has been addressed to the Avon electors, and which I venture to think, while it speaks in a jocose style, yet conveys a considerable amount of truth. Mr Matson was good enough in that letter to speak of mo as the recently sitting member for the Avon, and as a “ steady old shaft horse.” Mr Matson has had a pood deal of experience in the matters from which he draws his metaphor, and I think he has only done me justice in describing my qualifications as those of a man who will not get the bit in his teeth and bolt or kick over the traces, and generally he has given me a character which I am not at all unwilling to bear. But I must decline altogether—and I am very glad to see that my friend is present—to have it imagined for one moment that I am prepared at present to bo turned out to grass. [Laughter and applause.] I have represented this constituency for a number of years, and I am quite sensible that I have received at its hands great indulgence. I am sensible of the merits of the constituency, and I have no reason for the present to suppose that they are not sensible of the merits of their repre sentative. I feel, however, gentlemen, joking apart, that I have to make a personal explanation to the electors, and to crave their indulgence for what I think I can afford a sufficient apology the fact that I have not been able s ; nce the year 1879 to meet my constituents hero. When I last addressed them it was on the evo of the general election. Since then, as yon are aware, X have held the office of Minister of the Crown, and the work that has been put upon mo must to a considerable extent bo my excuse for not having met you as I should have done. At the same time I think yon will recognise that the position I occupy is one which in itself carries with it some excuse. The fact is that Ministers acting together in a body are, in matters of policy, very much represented by their chief, and the Premier has on every occasion before the sitting of Parliament addressed hia constituents, and through them the colony generally, as to the course the Government proposed to take in Far- | liament. The time of a general election is one which certainly demands from every member, whether he is a Minister or not, that ho should render an account of his stewardship, and I stand before you this evening rather to give an account of the history of the last Parliament and my actions therein than as a new man seeking fresh election. In the observations which I shall offer to-night I am aware that there are certain subjects which you will expect me to deal with specially, particularly those affecting the departments with which I have been more closely connected —those of lands and Native Affairs, and also the general administration with which I have dealt. Thouah I shall deal principally with those matters, I think it right first of all to say that I appear here as a member of the Government; not as merely explaining matters of administration, but as defending the policy of tho Government of which I am a member. I appear here because I believe that the present Government during the time it has been in office has done its duty faithfully; because I believe that tho people generally are satisfied with the action of tho Government, and because I believe the colony generally will renew the confidence it placed ia ns three years ago. (Applause.) lam one of those who believe that onr present form of government does not get fair play unless the people recognise that party government is essential to the representation of parties—essential to good government in Parliament. I have no sympathy with independent members. I have never been nn independent member myself; I have always been a party man; and 1 believe that if men are to make themselves felt they must express their opinions strongly and decidedly. They must hold by men who have common sympathies and common aims, whether they be in the Government or in the Opposition. I have a firm conviction that the Government cannot be carried on unless there is an Opposition which fairly criticises its actionand which is capable of taking its place if it fails in doing its duty. [Applause ] Tho Government of which I am a member is somewhat unfortunately placed in that respect. I do not think tho other side of tho Hoase is that organised body, with common aims and obj -cts, which renders good government possible to so great an extent as might be the case. Of course a Government and its party has its head in the Premier. The other side —the Opposition—should have its leader; it should have its principles, and it should have coherence. Now I don’t think that ia the case with the other side at the present time. So far as there is an Opposition there is no doubt the most prominent member of that iirty is Sir George Grey, and in the observations [ am going to make it will be impossible for mo to do otherwise than associate Sir George Grey with the opinions of members of the Opposition with which it will he my duty to some extent to deal; and I shall in a number of my remarks be bound to refer particularly to the speech that Sir George Grey has recently made to the electors of Auckland City East. Sir George o' roy appears to think that there ia an opinion on the Government side in the House that it is all nonsense to say there are two parties in New Zealand. Now, I agree with him that there are two parties in the country, and I believe there is an essential difference in their way of conducting business, and an essenrial difference also in their principles ; and it is because there is that difference, and because I believe we represent the country more fully than Sir George Grey and his party, that I firmly and confidently appeal to tho electors of the colony to support the present Government. [Applause.] Sir George Grey in his speech the other night said he intended to fight —‘‘As long as I live I shall fight.” I tell yon, gentlemen, that that also is my [Applause J I believe that principles are established by fighting, and I believe that none but men who feel strength enough to fight earnestly and zealously, and to believe in themselves, will bo worthy of holding a place in the Government of the colony. [Applause.] And I will tell you another thing : 1 shall fight—you know I have been a fighting man —and won’t run away when questions come before Parliament on which a man ought to express his opinions. I shall not, for instance, bo found, like tho present nominal leader of the Opposition, on such a question as that of education, shirking the giving of my vote. Neither shall I be found doing so on a question like that of tho leasehold qualification. We want men who have strong convictions, and my belief is that the working men of the country, the industrious classes, and the whole community, respect men with whom they differ if those differences are expressed honestly and firmly. _ They believe in such meu infinitely better than in people who are uncertain in their convictions, who are uttering uncertain sounds, and who, as I am sorry to bob is the case with a large number of candidates at the present time, never express one strong opinion without giving themselves some back door by which to escaoe from carrying it to its natural conclusion. [Applause] I have said that we hold office because we have common aims and objects, and because we believe we are doing onr duty, and we shall hold office until tho voice of the people, through the elections, has declared that we are no longer fit to do so. It is my belief that that time has not yet come. When we took office, after tho last general election, wo were put there by the people to accomplish certain objects ; we were pat there to effect a reform in the finance of tho country, and to effect largo retrenchments and a reorganisation of the Civil Service : We were put there to open up the country, and to devise schemes for the settlement of the people on tho land ; wo wore put there to do yrhat our predecessors talked about doing, but did not do —to carry out a system of electoral reform, which is now for tho first time coming into play ; wo wera put there to cleanse the Native office, and to teach tho Natives tho supremacy of the Queen’s law. And, gent’emon, I maintain that upon these broad points we have, on the whole, done our duty as fully as the people of the colony could expect, if not as fully ns we ourselves wished, and as, I believe, wo shall in the future bo able to do. [Loud applause.] I have said first, that we were placed in power to effect a financial reform in the colony—to bring about retrenchment, and to place the finances in such a position that tho outside world would have confidence in tho determination of the people to bear their burdens fairly, and in such a way that the credit of tho colony should bo reestablished. Well, I think tho lata Parliament didita duty in that respect. [A Voice—“ I don’t think so.”] I think we have. I think that tho result of the last Statement of the Colonial Treasurer was such as could not fail to he satisfactory to tho colony at large. We effected retrenchment to tho extent of .£300,000 upon tho previous Estimates, and wo were able to reduce taxation. Whatever may bo said to the contrary, I am firmly convinced that a more equitable tax than the property tax was never imposed upon any people. Changes in that tax may still be found necessary, but what was effected last session in bringing within its scope foreign capital to the extent some eleven millions, has much improved it. [Hoar, hoar.] It has been said that this tax ia doing an injury to tho country. It certainly_ is not the working classes who have to complain of it. I have in my hand a statement of the number of people who pay tho tax. It ia on tho whole something like 21,000 out of a population of about half a million. The facts, as they appear in the tables to the Financial Statement, show that tho bulk of this tax does not fall upon those who are unable to pay it. I have said that one of the principal works we had before us was to open up tho lands. And here I may be allowed to refer for a moment to the speech of the gentleman who may be regarded ns the leader of the Opposition, in which be said with regard to the laud system that New Zealand v?a» situated

worse than any other country in the world. Now I entirely fail to see that. It is certainly far bettor situated than any of the Australian colonies, and the number of settlers on the land in New Zealand in proportion to its population bears favorable comparison with that in any other country in the world. There are something like 60,000 freeholders in New Zealand out of a population of half a million. As I am going into this question of the administration of the lands, of which I am in charge, I feel bound to reiterate my denial of the statements made recently and on previous occasions by Sir G. Grey with regard to what has taken place in this province particularly, and the action of myself and others in respect to the administration of the lands here. I have stood before you as a public man for the last thirteen years, and my acta are known to yon, and I say that the statement of Sir George Grey with regard to the pre eruptive right system in Canterbury, as dealt with by myself particularly, is absolutely erroneous. In the year 1852 that question came prominently before the Provincial Government. I took office as Superintendent in 1868. At that time the land sales had nearly ceased, and they only began again in 1869. In 1872 we found that the system of preemptive rights—the system of spotting, and what is called gridironing—was injuriously affecting the settlement of the country, and I sent down to the Provincial Council at that time a memorandum in which I pointed out what these evils were. I obtained the consent of the Council to my introducing a Bill into the General Assembly which had for its object the remedying of those evils, and that measure was passed into law at my instance. Therefore I do not think that the present Government, myself being in charge of the administration of lands, is likely to neglect its duty in that respect, and the colony has no ground whatever to think that the policy of land administration in my hands will be otherwise than liberally dealt with. [Applause.] Now, gentlemen, there is a matter affecting the North Island, to which Sir George Grey referred in very marked terms. It is with reference to what was at one time a household word—to a large block of land near the Waikato known as Patetere. He says with regard to that “ Taka the case of blocks of land purchased from Natives upon which largo sums of j our money have been expended towards acquiring a title for the public generally. The Government determined not to purchase. When they came to that determination, did they notify this intention not to purchase to me or to you? Not a b : t of it. They put a proclamation over it ferbi ding everybody; bnt, after a while they told some few persons, you may go in and complete the purchase; we will give you a title. That, I say, they had no right to do.” I do not hesitate to say that in that statement there is not ono word of truth. The facts are these: —When the present Government came into office that Patetere block was a matter of very considerable difficulty in the negotiation of titles with the Natives. The'Government, with the approval of the H?use, determined as far as possible to do away with the system of Native land purchase, and there were provided by law two ways in which the Government could abandon such purchase. One was by absolutely abandoning the purchase, in which case the abandonment could only take effect two months after the date of the proclamation ; and the other was that where, as is distinctly referred to by Sir George Grey, and as particularly applied to this block, the Government had paid considerable sums of money on account of the purchase, and desired, in return for that money, to have land apportioned to them in the block, they should apply under the existing law for the investigation and ascertainment of their title, and the determining of the amount of interest in the land which was represented by the money they had spent. The application to the Court was made on November 25tb, two fall months before the advertised time of the sitting of the Court, namely, the 25th January. The application was in this form:—‘‘That the Conrt is required to ascertain the title of tho Government, and notice is given that, as soon as the title of the Government is ascertained, the remainder of the land that is not awarded to the Government by the Court shall be open for sale to the public.” Well, is it true to say, as Sir George Grey has done, that we secretly informed a few people of what we were going to do, and gave no [general notice to the public? Such an assertion is absolutely and wholly nntrue. This notice was gazetted and known throughout the colony to everybody to whom the “ Gazette ” was open. It was also, I believe, published in the newspapers, and whe n the time came that the Government interest was defined, everybody had as fall an opportunity of purchasing land in that block as if it bad been abandoned under the clauses of the other Act. I hope, gentlemen, I am not wearying you in giving this explanation, bnt speaking as I was jnst now of the check which an Opposition should be upon a Government, and of the healthy criticism that ought to be exercised in respect to the actions of a Government, I do think that when men so signally fail that they absolutely and entirely misrepresent the actions of a Government they do a great wrong to the form of government we have in this country. [Applause ] Then Sir George Grey naively tells us, “ There is no community between myself and men who have snch a disregard for the law.” Well, I say in reply to that, there is no community between myself and men who have such an utter disregard forthetrnth as is conveyed in that sentence. [ Applause.] Sir G. Grey says again: “ When I was in office with my friends I was given to understand that if my Government did not agree to what was then proposed, the persons interested were very powerful, had vast sums of money, and would trust to a change of Government. I knew to a certain extent what that meant. It meant that our doom was sealed, and that a change of Government was to take place.” Now what is conveyed in that P That the body of gentlemen who were engaged in the purchase of Patetere had sufficient political power to afiect the elections and that tho elections were so affected by them. I say again that so far as I know that is absolutely untrue. It might be that those gentlemen thought that with a change of Government they would have more practical men dealing with the business of the country, and that it would be more for their interest, but that they affected the elections in this matter, so far as the Government is aware, is absolutely incorrect. What was it that turned Sir George Grey out tf powei? It was not Patetere. It was the voice of the people, who said they would have the maladministration cease, to which the country had been subjected for tbe past two years. [Applause, and a voice “ No.”] What was the case with regard to this very Patetere country ? Why thousands of acres next door to Patetere were negociated in favor of an individual who was feeing assisted by surveyors connoted with the Government of that day. Why shcu d one party be dealt with in oneway, and another party in a different way ? Then, I ask yon to consider what has been the result of this Patatere business P What did we hear of it last session ? First, however, I must take you back to a time before last session, because there was not a word said about it last session. During tbe previous session we had a great deal of vaporing about this Patatere block, and my colleague Mr Bryce challenged Sir G. Grey to have a committee of inquiry into it. He gave notice of a committee, and I believe one was summoned. Bnt did the committee sit ? Not a bit of it. It did not suit Sir George Grey’s purpose to have tbe matter thoroughly sifted ns it might have been by a committee. And if this thing was so wrong, as be now on the hustings says it was, why in tbe world did be not bring it up last session ? It was never mentioned so far as I know. Well, gentlemen, that is enough as far as tho criticism of Sir George Grey is concerned. I hope yon will bear with mo for a few minutes while I tell you what have been the operations of tho Land Department during the psat year. I may say that there could bs no more healthy sign than tho general demand which exists throughout tho country at the pre-ent time for land for bona fide occupation. During the past year ending in March more bona fide settlement by small holders took place than was the case during tho previous two and a half years. [Applause.] 1 do not speak only of tho fresh settlement that has been effected on the Waimate Plains, than which IJcannot conceive that anything could be more satisfactoiy. To one who, like myself, bnt recently saw tho Plains without a stick upon them, it is perfectly marvellous to see the homesteads and tho farms, the fences and the cattle, and the comfort that is now prevailing there. Tho Department has adopted a system by which the plans of lands to bo sold are distributed at the various land offices throughout tho colony, and at railway stations and other public places, and most of you must bo aware that the system which has been adopted by the Government—a judicious mixture of land for cash payments and land for deferred payments —has been most satisfactory to the public at largo. All I can say is that the land has gone off wherever it has been put up, and that for some time to come there will be held in that part of tho country monthly sales, which I believe will result in an amount of settlement which could hardly have been anticipated. I think it will bo interesting to yon to know—because it is said wo are a Government that favor largo settlement—that npen that coast ISO settlers hold 22,426 acres, or something like I? 5 acres to each farm. I am not one of those who believe that a man is a land shark, end is to be regarded as an individual who ought to bo suppressed, when ho owns more than forty acres. I believe that these things work themselves right, and 1 believe that the system we have adopted, and which admits of a man obtaining a fair amount of land according to his means, is working most beneficially for tbe country. I may say that tho system which baa been adopted on the West Coast is this: Every six miles there is laid ont a village settlement. When I took office in the year 1880 I introduced on amending Land Bill, which provided for tbe establishment of village settlements. They begin with quarteracre sections for people who only wish for enough land to build a hou o upon, but they widen out into larger sections of three, four, live, and np to ton acres, which allow of the

prosecution by the settlers of other pursuits than farming, and this system has been found to work exceedingly well. These settlements, as I say, exist every six miles, and, therefore, there will practically be no place on these blocks of country which have been opened that will bo mere than three miles from the village school, the village blacksmith, the church, and ths store. I have in this province carried out to some extant this system of village settlements, and I think very successfully. Ton will see it in operation in a small way ct the t'onth Eokaia and at the Crari, and it is the intention of tho Government to further apply the system in the case cf blocks of land which remain unsettled in this province. Then again_ it maybe of some interest t - you to know that in May, ISS2, when the Act provides for a different system in respect to paetoral lands coming into existence, the Government will be prepared to cut np land: and sell them on pastoral deferred payments. Already instructions for the survey of saeh lands as are considered suitable have been given, and a fair beginning of the sale of land on pastoral deferred payments will be made aa :con as the law allows. I may say alai that in Otr.go some 3.000,000 acres of land wid soon becut np and opened for sale, either for small agricultural settlement or for deferred payment pastoral lands, or for small runs capable of carrying sheep to the extent cf 5000 upon each ; and that tho necessary plana have been prepared and are now being lithographed. I now come to the question of electoral reform. The late ParlioTrent will be conspicuous for the changes it has brought about in respect to the representation cf the colony. Jhe three principal measures on this subject are the Qualification of Electors Act, the Triennial Parliaments Act, and the Representation Act. With regard to the first, you will recollect that tho previous Parliament had a measure before it which failed to become law because tbe Upper House, having made an alteration in the Bill with respect to Maori representation, reverting to the Bill aa originally brought down, the Government of the day determined to drop it, because they did not get their own way in tho matter. I may say that that course deprived the South for the whole of the last Parliament of the additional representation to which it was entitled. This measure is somewhat remarkable, because, from the speech of the leader cf tbe Opposition to which I have referred, wo find that the Bill which was brought in by his Government was not one of which he himself approved, but ono in respect to which it would seem that he had been hampered by his colleagues, and which d.d not represent his own views. The fact was that the Bill as it came down' provided for the franchise being given to ratepayers, and, therefore, to leaseholders, and Sir George Grey declares that that Bill was not his own. It is rather a remarkable admission to make, considering that in the speech delivered by the representative of the Crown it was spoken of in concoction with the other electoral Bills as one of a series of measures that would give to the ptople of New Zealand one of the freest and best constitutions that ronld possibly he devisedThe Triennial Parliaments Act is one which was passed by the late Parliament. I have one word to say about that. When I spoke to you upon it before, I said that my own feelings personally had not been in favor of a Triennial Parliaments Bill, bnt that I was quite satisfied it was the wish of the people that it should be carried. Whatever my own individual opinion might be upon it I was satisfied that it was a measure which must have a trial, and it is now upon its trial. I confess that I am not yet thoroughly satisfied that the Act is one of advantage to the colony at large, and I think tho experience of the last Parliament conviccad a great number of members to that effect. B o wever, I wish to say this with regard to it : that I do not see my way, and never did, to making hasty changes and repealing measures which wo have once initiated, without giving them a fair trial. One of the greatest curses in new countries is a disposition on the part of the people to establish institutions, and then to act as children do who pat plants in their gardens, root them np to tee how they are growing. In what I say on this subject I do not wish to be understood to be expressing mere than my individual opinion. I appeared before yon previously and spoke on this Bill as a private member, and therefore I think I am entitled to state my individcal views upon it. If you ask me if I think it is at all possible cr probable that the Government of the d ay will propose a return to quinquennial Parliaments, I say I do not think it is. It may be. It will bo a matter for consideration—and in this I wish distinctly to be understood as expres.ing my own opinion only—if any change has to come, whether that change will cot be an onward one in tho direction of annual instead of triennial Parliaments. I now come to what was really the Bill of last session, and for which the late Parliament is principally remarkable —the Representation Bill. By that measure we, in this part of the colony, have at last got the rights which fairly belong to us as one of the most populous and most industrious, as well as one of t* e largest wealth-producing districts of the colony. We had very considerable trouble over that measure, and I think the Government of tho colony deserves well of the people of this island for fighting aa we did to obtain what we thought to be the rights of the people. [Apple use.] Gentlemen, I am afraid the time is getting on, and I must be briefer in my remarks than 1 had wished to be. There were a large number of subjects on which I would like to have tended. I may mention as one cf them the question of local government, about which wo have heard a good deal. Sir George Grey defines local government as providing that the people shall have the power over their own lands and bridges, and wo hear a great deal about the necessity for a separation of local and general finance, various schemes having been placed before us for securing what different people think is a better form of local government than the colony at present enjoys. You are well aware that it is not my disposition to run hurriedly into constitutional changes. I was one of those who opposed most strenuously, and I believe I did right in so doing, the abolition of tbe provinces[Henr, hear.] But, as I said before, we have advisedly, and after mature consideration, adopted a system of counties and Hoad Boards, and I think we ought to give that system a fair trial. The history of Constitutions and of Governments is like that of nature—continuousWe must try to improve upon what we have got and to develop out of it something better, instead of doing violence by the way of sudden abolition, or attempts to do what in the case of nature is abhorrent, namely, go back aga'.n to that which we have left. “ Nature brings not back the Mastodon.” The fact is that tho real cry, as it developed itself in the General Assembly last session, was one that arose out of a want of money on the part of tho local bodies. Their diagnosis of the complaint by those who brought down new schemes was not the right one. What they really wanted was money, and no change such as any of those which were embodied in the different schemes that were proposed would have satisfied the requirements of tbe people. Now, gentlemen, 1 am coming to a matter of great importance, one in which the people of this province have shown considerable interest, and on which I may be supposed to speak with eome authority—the Native question. Since tho Goveniment have been in office, under the able administration of Mr Bryce very large reductions have been made in the Native department, and the whole administration has been redneed to a more commonsense form. The last Native Lands Act which was brought in is tending very much more to tho settlement of the country than anything that went before, and wbon we think of what has taken place in the Waikato, and of tho general temper of the Natives throughout tbe colony, we have grout reason at the present t’'me to congratulate ourselves. [Applause.] Now, with regard to affairs on the West Coast. It is a matter of great gratification _ to the Government to feel, as they are justified in doing, that they have tbe support and sympathy of the people and in the main of the Press of the colony, in undertaking to suppress tho difficulties that have arisen at Parihnka. The Government have had a very trying and anxious time in that matter. They have had to take whatsis considered, and what no doubt is, to some extent, abnormal action, to mset nn abnormal state of circumstances, and throughout the country tl ey have had, what has been most encouraging to them, an expression of sympathy from the people. Not only has that come from on their own side and of their own following, but tho question has been very much divested of party feeling, and felt to be a national danger which had to he met in a national spirit, and every encouragement has been held out to the Government to deal, as they have done, firmly and strongly with the difficulty [Applause.] I may mention with great satisfaction that men like Mr Sheehan, even Sir George Grey himself, and other members in opposition to us have spoken of the course wo have taken as ono deserving cf support. It has been somewhat strange to me that men like Mr Stout—-men who feave had experience in public affairs—should have rushed wildly into print and written as Mr £tcut did with regard to the action of the Government on the Coast. He is, I think yon will admit, a man of a somewhat eccentric character. He is a man who on many accounts is to bo respected. He is a man of considerable ability. Bnt I think that in the letter he has written on this matter ho has shown that ho has not fully appreciated the responsibility that attaches to a man who has once held office, as ho has done, of an important character. Nor did he, I think, when he wrote ns he did, appreciate the fact that ho himself was AttorneyGeneral and Minister of Lands in the Government which initiated tho survey on the West Coast before any attempt bad been made to pottle tho difficulty and to define the reserves. [Applause.] 1 think the letter to wrote was entirely unworthy of a public man dealing with a question so serious as this. The Government had upon it at the time tho very heaviest responsibility. At any moment there might hava been bloodshed, nud tbe whole cf that coast might have been desolated, and have beccisaa the scene of a desultory war for years. I do not think it is tight for a man in Mr Stoat's position towrito in this strain- , "I suppose, amidst tho general rejoicing a et the*

prospect of a Macri war, it is useless for anyone to raise his voice against the present Native policy. I do so more r.s a protest than with any hope that any one colonist can ever aid in preventing ' the murder of the Maoris, on which, it seems, we, as a colony, are beet. The race is dying, and if we wore at fill affected with the love of humanity we should strive to preserve it, or make its dying momenta ns happy as possible. To this end I think wo ought to have given To Whiti and his people a Crown grant of tho Parihika block, and allowed them to remain there unmolested. If they disturbed settlers on other lands, why not treat them as wo treat European disturbers of the peace—bring them before our Courts Justicot” Now I ask you what have we done ? "Why wo have prevented tho murder of tho Maoris, T ho course we followed was taken, alike in the in* toresta of the Maoris and of the Europeans to prevent bloodshed, and I thank Gjdwe have succeeded in doing so. (Applause.) Ko says at the end of this letter—" Wo are powerful and they are weak, end that is tho only explanation that the future historian will give of ouv conduct.” 1 think, go-t'emen, if it bad not been for the way in which the volunteers of tho colony came forward—if it had not been for tho steady and active determination of tho Government to bring together sufiicient force to prevent a disturbance, we should have had bloodshed on the coi&t. It seems to mo as if there aio people in the colony who expected bloodshed, and who do not know what to mako of it that there was not bloodshed. My belief is that the course wo took was a reasonable one, and that it was in consequence of that course that there was not bloodshed. [Applause.] Now, gentlemen, I wish you to listen to what I am about to quote from what Sir George Grey said on tho subject. As I said before I think in this matter be has expressed an opinion that is well worth listening to. It is curiously put, hut it is very instrucCve, and I think contains a great deal of truth. Ho says—- “ I was brought up in my youth partly by a very clever but rather curious man. He afterwards rose to great eminence. He held this idea which was very early impressed on my mind. His belief was that a great danger threatened the community, particularly a barbarous community, from false prophets arising. Ho said there is no telling when a man says he is a prophet, whether he Is a true prophet or a false one. Ha believed there had been true prophets, and if a man said he was a prophet, ho would bo sorry to believe he was not so, but if he was not a true prophet he might do much mischief to a community. Now, ho would shut such a person up. If he were a true prophet shutting him up could not do him much harm, for an angel, perhaps, might como to deliver him, or some interposition of Providence would take place on his behalf. My friend b.-lieved that tho matter would be righted in some snob way as that. But if he was a false prophet, it would be a great profit to the community to shut him up. [Laughter ] Such a person must bo either a maniac or an imposter. If he is a maniac, it is prop:r ho should be put under restraint. If ho is an imposter, shutting him np is what he deserves. Now I am in favour of shutting np the false prophet, hut I think tho false prophet should have been shut up long ago. The most fitting time was when the fa'se prophet was willing to be shut np himself.” Ton will see from this that Sir George Grey does not at all disagree with Te Whiti Joeing abut up, but regards that step as one in the interests of the community at large, ns well ns in the interests of the prophet himself. However, after this he proceeds rather curiously. I may say that during last session, whan it was my duty to tell the House that I thought would to bo necessary to make some provision for preventing a Native outbreak on the West Coast, Sir Qeorgo Grey expressed himself in a way that I thought did him groat credit. He said that whatever we did wo should do strongly and firmly—that to act decisively, and to make tho Natives feel our power, was the most merciful way in which we could deal with this difficulty. In that respect we have followed Sir George Grey’s advice. But he makes one statement which I think you would like to hoar, because with tho exception perhaps of that wonderful letter to the 11 Wairarapa Standard” as to tho bombardment of Auckland, it seems to me to bo one of the most curious statements that this gentleman has over ottered. Referring to the downfall of the Roman Empire, he compared tho Government to a Roman Senate which determined who were to be consuls, who were to bo tribunes who were to have the great estates and to fill tho public offices ; and then ho went on to say that in order to do this the more effectually they felt it necessary to fill men’s minds with excitement. Ho said the Romans liked war ; they liked shows of gladiators : they liked shows in the arena, where numbers of persons were killed. These things were done invariably before an election took place. At such times they tried to engage the public mind in some disturbance of the kind. People forgot their true interests ; they thought nothing of their lands, or of their revenue, or of their representation. Lot ns then, I say. keep our minds studiously clear from such things. It is curious to me to thick that there could be any connection between the actim taken in the establishment of gladiatorial shows and public exhibitions on the eve of elections and tho danger of an outbreak which existed just previous to this election. It sesms to mo perfectly monstrous to suppose that tho Government could have been in any way privy to Te Whiti’s speech of the 17th September, which had the effect of frightening the settlers from one end of the coast to the other. ’J he supposition that tho Government had anything to do with bringing this on before the elections would imply that Te Whiti and the Government were in collusion in the matter. I think you will see, gentlemen, that there could be no more dangerous or difficult position for a Government to bo in before an election, than a position which involved tho possibility of a disaster occurring such as would result from an outbreak of the Natives. Sir Geo. Grey is not the only person v/ho has ventured to throw out a hint of this kiad. He has dona it openly and in the course of political warfare. Bat there are at the present time I am grieved to find, and I have heard it in several quarters, a knot of people who in tho name of philanthropy, and justice, and truth, are imputing motives of this kind to the Government, which I need not say are absolutely false and without foundation. [Applause] I thiuk those paragraphs 1 have read from Sir George Grey’s speech are very instructive I have in my hand something on the same point which is not only instructive but amusing. We have heard a good deal from one section of tho Press in Canterbury about the wrong-doing of tho Government in respect to the West Coast. They have talked of justice of mercy, and of everything that was right being set at nought by the Government. They have talked of our cruelty, of our wrong doing, and no exprea-ions which they could p?n were strong enough to convey the abhorrence they would have the public believe they felt at the course of action tho Government were taking. I don’t wish to beat about tho bush, gentlemen. I am speaking of the articles that have appeared in the ‘‘Lyttelton Times,” and I crave your attention to what I am going to say. I should not have taken notice of tho matter except for reasons that will appear when you hear what I am going to read to you. During tho year 1879. when the late Government were in office, that newspaper, in common with every newspaper in the colony, wrote its opinions on the state of Native affairs on tho West Coast. Tbo general tenor of the articles in tho ‘‘Lyttelton ’limes”—you will ■find them in the files of May-, Juno, and July, 1879—was to this effect: —“ Do notfight, whatever you do ; it does not pay. The flour and sugar policy is infinitely bettor than fighting. The land must como into our hands sooner or later.” That was the general tone and the impres-ion that they conveyed by the articles that appeared in this branch of tho Press at that time. In the m:nth of July news came that a chief called Wheteri, a Mokan Native, had como in to the Government, and that the Maoris in that part of the country were determined to follow a peaceful course and abstain from helping Te Whiti, or any operations that might take place—that they did not nt all sympathise with Te Whiti, and might be relied on to stand aloof. Now comes an article, to a portion of ■which I crave your attention. It appeared on the 4th of Jnly, 1879, and runs ns follows : “Them dn point to be noted is, that acl ivo disaffection does not now exist at the Mokan. Wo may infer that it will bo confined to the Waimato plains : at all events, the attempts on the port of Te Whiti to get allies, if any harm been made have failed. The occasion is propitious for a decisive blow. Oao cf tho •rumors that has reached us speaks of tho plmning of a raid on Parihaka, and another mentions that the Government hope soon to bag Te Whiti and Titokowaru. We can only hope ■that these rumors are true. If Mr Mackay, the new commissioner at Taranaki, can signalise tho beginning of his career by tho seizure of tho Maori prophet, be will cover himself with glory, and effectually secure tho peace of the colony.” f Laughter.] Can yon believe it, gentlemen ? It reminds mo of two philosophers of olden days, one of whom laughed and tho other wept over the foibles and vices of society. My first impression when I read this was to laugh, but on thinking over it, it does seem to me a somewhat sad thing that one of those elements of our system of popular Government—tho criticism of the Press—should loso the influence it ought to have by changing and chopping upon an important question of this kind, and practically trading on the credulity of its readers in tho woy it does. The articles that have appeared in that paper could only have been written presuming on the ignorance of facts which the majority of its readers were in, and for that ignorance of facts, or misrepresentation of facts, the paper itself was very largely responsible. It has been said that the Government is acting without law, and doing what it has no right to do, in the detention of such men as Titokowaru. It may ho that tho Government has taken a serious responsibility upon itself in the course it has adopted with regard to tho detention of these Natives who are in custody. But it has done it cheerfully it has done it firmly, and it will continue to do it—[Applause]—because we feol we have got in our

hands the protection of a number of helpless people, and wo will take care that wo do not abuse tho trust that is reposed in us in this matter. [Applause] I ask you whether you can deal with these datives in tho same way that yon ordinarily deal with Europeans. Aro you, at a time of great excitement among tho Natives, as this must ho, to allow a man like Titokowaru, who only a few years ago desolated tho whole coast, to bo loose and to he a standing menace to the people in that part of the country ? In his own interest—to keep him out of mischief—and iu tho interest of the happiness of tho people on the const, I maintain that tho Government is doing what is right. A number of yon will remember, I doubt not, a letter that appeared written by this man. Ho is no doubt one of the greatest warrior chiefs that there has been in Now Zealand—a man whoso namo as a chief aid a leader in war is a household word amorg tho Maoris. I ask you just to listen to a letter that was written by him during the last war, and to judge whether it is any wonder that people who recollect tho horrors of that war should congratulate themselves that tho Government has seen fib to take that man and to keep him out of tho way at tho present t ; mo. He says io a friendly chief:— “A word to you. Cense travelling on the roads. Stop for ever tho going on the roads which lead to Mangamanga (camp Waihi), lest you be loft on the roads us food for tho birds of tho air and for tho beasts of the field, or for mo, because I have eaten tho European (Smith, trooper), ns a piece of beef; he was cooked in a pot. Tho women and children partook of tho food. I have begun to eat human flesh, and my throat is constantly open for tho flesh of man. I shall not die; I shall not die. When death itself shall be dead, I sh ill be nlivo. That is the word for you, extending to Matangarara. That is a light (ccnr) word to you, extending to all yenr boundaries. Cease (step).” I say that this is no time to be quibbling about technicalities of law in regard to the detention of a man of that kind. [Applause.] I should like, if yon could bear with mo, to give yen a statement upon this Native question in respect to matters as to which tho action of the Government has been called in question, and as to which the public have a right to information. Of course it io not natural that tho public generally could carry their minds back to the time cf the confiscation, and follow its history up to the present time. 1 will endeavor. in a few words, to put before you tho position of the confiscated lands. After the Wuitara war the whole of the West Coast was do lured adi trict within which blocks of land could bo taken for tho establishment of military settlements. It was a district under the New Zealand Settlement Act, in the same way that the Waikato country was proclaimed a district. That was in the month of January, 1865. Bnt the whole of the country was not then confiscated. It was cu’y declared a district within winch blocks cf land would be absolutely taken and confiscated for tho purpo es cf military settlement. When Mr Weld’s Government bad been in office a little time they found that tho Natives were returning upon these confiscated lands, that they were settling irregularly, and that tbo question of title would become very much confused, and the prospect of pacifying tho country would hecomo daily more and more complicated. They therefore de‘ermined to confiscate the whole of these blocks—not only to leave them, as they were previously, districts within which blocks could ho taken, but to confiscate the whole of them —to mako them Crown lands, and then to grant them hack from the Queen to loyal Natives, and also to rebel Natives who were willing to como in and live upon those lands under Crown grant. The principle upon which this was done was laid down in the peace proclamation which was issued in the year 1865 in there words:— “Out of tho lauds which have been confiscated in the Waikato, and at Taranaki and Ngatirnanui, tho Governor will at once restore considerable quantities to those of the Natives who wish to settle down upon their lands, to hold them under C.own grants, and to live under tho protection of tho law. For this purpose Commissioners will be sent forthwith into the Waikato, and tho country about Taramki, and between that place and Whanganui, who will put tho Natives who may desire it upon lands at once, and will mark out tho honndar'es of tho blocks which they are to occupy. Those who do not como in at once to claim the benefit of this arrangement must expect to be excluded.” Tbo instructions which were issued to tho Commissioners who wero to set out those blocks of land are published iu the printed papers that appear in the Parliamentary books of that time. Bnt I will just read yon a paragraoh from the instructions cf the Waikato Commissioner, Dr. Pollen, which shows what tho mini of tho Government was at that time in regard to tho confiscation—how thoroughly they were determined that tho whole of the Native title should bo wiped out, and that fhn title which should be re-established iu tho different localities and different spots should be a title accepted by the Natives from tho Crown, and in no way complicated by past tribal claims. The paragraph is ns follows: “ Jnmarkingout blocks of land for the Natives it is, of course, desirable not to abandon to them mote than is necessary for their wants, not only because to leava them in possession of largo tracts cf country which they cannot use ia to kindness, but because by the speedy sale and settlement of the remainder their own lands will become more valuable, and the settlement and occupation of the country will bo effected. Bnt the Government feel that the matter of fir t importance in tho permanent pacification cf the country is to indnee the Natives finally to accept the fact that the land is confiscated, and to consent to hold what is now returned to them under Crown grant. To attain this end the Government would sanction a far more liberal disposition of land to the Natives than would on other considerations be desirable.” I read that to you in order to shew that there was no pcssiblo doubt in tho mind of tho Government that tho Natives at that time had explained to them thoroughly the effect of the confiscation, and that it is perfectly idle now to raise tho question of whether the confiscation was technically all that might have been. As you aro aware, a question has been raised, in consequence of a promise contained in this proclamation, that the land of the loyal Natives would not bo taken, but would bo returned to th-m. What was the case in the Waikato? The Commissioner there. Dr. Pol'en, a gentleman of very considerable administrative ability, aided by Mr James Mackay, carried out these instructions, and the same difficulties never nroso there that have occurred on the West Coast; and the reason why the West Coast tract of country was not dealt with iu the same way that the Waikato waa treated was this—that tho Natives themselves did not admit of tho settlement of the question on the Coast. In the Parliamentary papers for ISG7 yon will find letters which show that To Whiti’s pe-ple at Parihaka —I don’t say Te Whiti himself, because there is no particular evidence as to him personally—but that his tribe rendered settlement on the coast by tho Europeans impossible. The question of dealing with these lands was rendered impossible, not through neglect of tho Government at that time at any rate, but through the impracticability of the Natives. Now I wish you to bear that in mind. It is not reasonal ie to say that the Government allowed the confiscation to pass by in this case, when practically they wero debarred, except at the risk of bloodshed and of difficulties, which in tho then financial condition of the colony, they wero not prepared to face, from making use of the land and carrying out those arrangements which they proposed. Well, time went on. I for my part always thought that this thing was getting, to use a common expression, into a mess. In tho year 1809 I was in Parliament. I had known of these previous transactions in respect to tho confiscated land, and I brought down resolutions in tho House recommending tho appointment of a commission to inquire into tho question, and to wind up these transactions, because it appeared that over a considerable portion of this country there was a possibility cf settlement; that, though there wero, of course. Natives who throw difficulties in tho way, there wero others who were pleading for settlement, and whose claims I thought, and, I believe, rightly, ought to he regarded, and that an attempt ought to bo made at settlement. That Commission never was appointed. Titolco xarn’s war swept over that country, and it was for some time practically deserted. I will not go into the further intermediate stages, bat will take np from the time when the present Government took office. When I was then asked whether I would join Mr Hall, one of the first things I put to him was “ Will you agree to a Commission being appointed to settle this question of tho apportionment of tho lands on the West Coast ?” The result, yon all know, was tho appointment of a Commission, under an Act of Parliament, to determine what was a fair apportionment of tho lands and a fair settlement of tho difficulty. The report of that Commission has been largely quoted from by other people, and I do not propose to go into it at length. I observe that one candidate recommended the electors to read it three times. Well, I think it is a very difficult matter to understand for anybody who has not a considerable amount of reading and knowledge of tho matter besides that afforded by the report of tho Commission. But, what I want to point ont is this —That Parliament deliberately adopted the report of tho Commission as a fair settlement of this difficulty ; and not only was it a fair settlement, but a most liberal one. It was a settlement iu excess of the awards that wero made by tho Compensation Court in respect to the claims of loyal Natives under tho proclamation. It was a mos“ litoral interpretation of tho promises of the Government ; and when yon consider that throughout this confiscated block lands to the value rf I think something like a million of money were appointed by that Commission to Natives not exceeding 3000 in number, I think yon will agree that those Natives are not on the whole being ill-used—-that the fact of the settlement by Europeans on that coast would give a value to those lands remaining to tho Natives which they never conld othsrwhe have bad, and that the endowment of an annual income of something like J£loo.ooo w as not a thing that conld be talked of a a

illiberaTy treating the Natives on that coast. [Applause.] After the Commissioners had reported as to what should be done, they were re-appointed to meet and carry out tho apportionment of the reserves among the different hapus of tho tribes, and to settle the Natives upon the land. Well, what has been going on on the Coast ? On some portions—on this side of tho Waingongoro down to the Patoa rivor—tho Natives have been accepting their reserves, hut Titokowaru’a people have recently been living pretty constantly at Parihaka. To Whiti has been there congregating around him Natives who have no more interest in the particular block of land at Parihaka than you and I have. He has been collecting oronnd him all the discontented spirits of tho Wanganui tribes—tribes that have never lost an acre of land to the Government, and who conld not bo said to bo going there to pot rid of their own wrongs at tho hands of tho Government. He was congregating around him the Ngatiruanr i—tho people who under tho report of tho Commissioners had 25,000 acres of some of tho most beautiful country I havo over seen in the world apportioned to thorn. He has had around him tho tribes to tho north of Taranaki ; ho has had a fow men from tho north of Auckland ; bo has had Waikato and he has oven had Natives from Raupnki and other places in this island. Te Whiti, with Tohu, found himself, whether ho would not, in a position, from which his natural self-love would not allow him to retreat, of being the head of an aggregation of discontent, occupying country with people tho majority of whom had no right whatever to do so; and he has been unable to shako off tho position that has been forced upon him. I am perfectly satisfied that, sooner or 1 ter, very potions difficulties would havo arisen if the Govtrnment had not taken tho course which it did. To Whiti declined to go to tho Commission. He declined to have anything to say to tho settlement of tho land that was to bo made. As was stated in tho proclamation that yon have all read, when tho prisoners were released and when William King was let out, the Government sent a letter to the Natives which showed them its intention with reference to tho reserves. Whin tho present Governor arrived, ho sent to ask Te Whiti to moot him, to endeavor to settle this matter. Constantly tho tGovernment, through friendly Natives through Natives who wero partly under this hraldom of Te Whiti and partly friendly to tho Government-endeavored to bringinflaoncetohoar upon To Whiti—to bring him to the common sense view of accepting tho benefits which tho West Coast Settlements Act proposed to confer upon him. Well, as you know, wo sold considerable portions of land on the Waimato Plains, and, as I have already stated those lands havo been settled upon. We sold largo quantities of land, as recommended in the Cammissionors’ report, in the Parihaka block, to the seaward of tho road that was constructed by Mr Bryce and tho constabulary. For a time all things went well. Tho position was this : We had some 300 or 400 prisoners in gaol. It was obvious that the time must come, sooner or later, when we could no longer detain those prisoners in gaol They had to bo released, and we had to deal with tho whole question. There was then no demonstration on tho part of Te Whiti which would lead tho Government to suppose that ho would have done otherwise than passively and silently acquiesce in what was going on, and they hoped ho would allow tho settlement to go on, and there would be no further obstruction on his part. Ho had, ns you are aware, shown when the late Government were in office that it was not any particular reserves that he cared about, else why did he plough down near tho Waingongoro ? Why did he plough up towards the Wnito Cliffs? Why did he plough all over ? It was an assertion of his "mnna” over tho whole country, and of the fact that he was determined to assert his sovereignty as against that of the Government. A few months ago tho same thing began again. He commenced fencing and cultivating lands, some of which had been sold by tho Government. He and his people felt that they were relatively much stronger than they were before the prisoners were let go, and of course there wore among his followers turbulent spirits which, whether ho wished to do so or not. To Wbi i could not very well resist. And thoro is no doubt that about the month of September iu this year, when that speech was made by Te Whiti, ho had got into that position that ho could nothing hut express the mind of tho people that were gathered round him. The Government, of coarse, had a very difficult task before them. They had to act firmly, without irritation, and without any desire to nse force, and so long as there was any prospect of effecting a peaceful settlement they did their best to achieve that result. When Parliament rose I, as Native Minister, wont up to Pnugarehu. I found things in a condition iu which they conld not be allowed to remain. Our drays had been turned back into the camp, fences were being erected where tho Government had persistently warned tho Natives they ought not to placo them, and on ono occasion a display of force had been made by the Natives which showed that an outbreak waa imminent. The course the Government took was not to raise a panic of alarm, ft was to arm tho settlors along the coast quietly, and to place them as volunteer forces in a position to defend themsolves. This, mind yon, was after the 17th September and the delivery of that speech which had created snch alarm along the coast. Tho Government recruited tho constabulary. _ I determined that the first thing to do was quietly to pul ourselves in such a defensive state that the Maoris could not mako any headway against the positions we held. At the same time I placed myself in communication with friendly Natives who were also in communication with To Whiti, because you must knew that theao Parihaka meetings wero frequented by almost every Native on tho const friendly and not friendly and I informed them carefully and precisely cf the intentions of the Government with regard to tho reserves. I told them that the present state of confusion could not last. I told them, in tho words of the Commissioners, ns thoy_ appeared in the Proclamation, that the time had come when they must accept once for all the offers of tho Government, or the promises that had been made would no longer be open to them. I took every occasion to impress upon their minds tho fact that the existing state of things must coase. Finally I placed myself in communication with To Whiti through a gentleman who know him well personally, in whoso father’s house Te Whiti, in his younger days, had lived, and who was on exceedingly friendly terms with that chief. And now I wish to refer tsi the point which I see the public papers havo taken np. They have asked the question—Was To Whiti aware of the report of tho commission ? Was he aware of the reserves that wero intended for him ? And did ha know where ho might go, and where ho might not go. Now this gentleman took him the report; he explained fully to him tho position of the reserves, which I may say was pretty well known beforehand, and he told him directly from mjsslf what I had indirectly conveyed to him through other Natives - namely, that after the speech he had made in September it was impossible that tho present state of things conld continue—that tho peaceful European settlers could not tolerate that their wives and their children should bo frightened by language such as he bad used on that day; that it might bo all very well to say he talked allegorically, and that ho meant one thing when he said another, but that having talked as ho had done wo must come to some definite understanding ; Things wore not as they had boon, and wo must now know whether he accepted tho proposals of the Government or not. The negotiations, if I may call them so, which this gentleman had with the Natives terminated in an interview which I had with Te Whiti myself. That interview was not of a satisfactory character. He mot mo in a very friendly and courteous way to begin with, but be absolutely declined to admit the right of the Government to share tho lands on the Coast with him. Ho took my hat in h’s hand, and ho said, “ What is the good of your hot if it is cut iu two.” He said, “ If yon have como to ask me to sharo tho blanket with you, I am not the man to help you.” “ As for the Commission,” ha said, “ yonr Commissioners are tho people who were themselves interested in tho wrong that was done, and I decline to recognise the Commission at all.” From what I heard before, from To W’hiti indirectly, my own opinion is that his desire would have been, if ho dared have done it in the face of hia people, to com-j to some understanding with the Government. Bnt ho could not do it. He had assumed a position—that a man through whom the Atua (the Divinity) spoke—from which ho could not rcced 3 with any satisfaction to himself; and he felt that in the eyes of his people he was done for- if I may use the expression—if he gave way to the Government. It was quite clear to rao after that tbatthore was no use innegociating. Before I go any further I would like to make ono or two further observations ns to this question of whether To Whiti knew of tho reserves. Ho had tho whole of tho report of tho Commission translated into Maori and read over to him by tho gentleman I have mentioned. Not only that, but before it was translated into Maori ha had it in English, and ho has in Fatihaka as good English scholars as there are in this room. He also knew perfectly well, by tbo way which is most familiar to Natives, the lands upon which he conld go and those npon which he could not. Tho fact of the surveyor’s chain never having been npon the land to tho north of the road meant that the Natives were not to be disturbed upon that land; and when, on the other side of the road, they wont upon lands they should not go upon they wero consistently and persistently warned where they might not go, and allowed to go where they might go. There could have been no more practical way of explaining to a Maori where reserves were than saying to him —“ Hero you may go, and there you may not go.” But apart from that, there were, as I have said, Natives who were thoroughly acquainted with tho boundaries of theao reserves —they had seen the chain go over them. The reserves were set apart by Mr Parris in company with Natives, and there is not ths slightest doubt in tho world that Te Whiti knew as much about the intentions of the Government as the | Government did themselves. Gentlemen, my

story has now come to an end. Ton know the latter part of the proceeding!! ns well as I do myself. It came to this, that the Government issued the proclamation which yon have seen, which has my name at the bottom of it, and which told To Whiti in formal and decisive terms what I had previously told him by letter. I may say that after my interview with To Whiti I wrote him a letter in the hope still that circumstances might admit of his taking a wiser view of things, and if you will permit I will read that letter. It was written on the 10th October—many days before the proclamation was issued. I thought it was well that he should have before him a statement of the case. I may say that I had told him previously through the gentleman I have mentioned, Mr Eicmensncider, that with regard to reserves on the seaward side of the road, the Government were prepared to make tho most liberal concessions ; that they bad no wish whatever to take pieces of land for which ho had any predilection, and that with regard to lands of that character which hid not been sold, ho hsd nothing to do but to point them out and tho Government would be prepared to moot him liberally in respect to them. The letter I wrote was to this effect : “ Pungnrehu, 10th October, 1881.—I came to see you because I was told you wished to see mo, and 1 am glad that we have met face to face. Ton have now heard from my mouth the desire of the Government to deal with yon ns a friend, and to arrange for the settlement of both races cn tho land in peace I came also because things are not now in a satisfactory position, and became the Europeans and tho Natives alike have been disturbed by tho reports of what yon have said, and the acts which are said to bo done under yonr sanction. I had heard that what you had said was misinterpreted. I had beard, too, that yon did not clearly understand what were the proposals of tho Government, and I desired to exp'ain them to you. Yonr friend RimciO (Riamenschntider) has told yon plainly what I was willing to do if you listened to my words. Our meeting is over. Whether it is for good or for ovi! is yet unknown. If it brings good to both races we nhill have the bless.ing which belongs to peacemakers. If no good comes of it tho blame will not rest with me and tho Government. It will bo with yon. Ihe present confusion and uncertainty cannot last. Iho proposals of tho Government cannot long remain as they are. Enongh of that which has already been told yon.” This is tho final sentence which told him what was to bo done—that ho must stop what was taking place—tho fencing under our very eyes of land that was sold and belonged to Europeans, and in respect to which the Natives had had tho most ample warnings. ‘There are fences erected on land which is not sot apart for Natives, bat which is sold to Europeans, and also across roadways ; and those who have pnt up these fences have been told that they were doing wrong and breaking tho law, and are liable to punishment. The reply they give is that they are acting under yonr instructions and with yonr approval. There are some even now fencing on European land. This is wrong and cannot bo permitted. Itmustba stopped. W. Eolleston.” That was a definite intimation to To Whiti of the determination of tho Government. I came down to Wellington to see my colleagues, and we determined to take further action after giving him ample time —this was on the 10th October—to think over tho thing, and then wo issued the proclamation which yon have read. What did the Natives do? Did they show tho slightest disposition to meet ns F Not a bit of it. They went on in a way that showed their determination to persist in tho fencing. Of conrso wo could not be stopped. This, I may say, was before tho Volunteers arrived, and before they realised wbat was coming. The Government determined to make tho demonstration of force which they did make, and yon know the result. It was to my mind eminently satisfactory. | Applanso. | Gentlemen, I have done. I am afraid I have wearied yon ; tho time is late. I havo done my best to moke a somewhat difficu’t subject clear to you. If it is not clear I shall bo most happy to give any further explanation or information that you may require. I am here to answer any questions, and nothing will give mo greater pleasure at any time, whether at a public mealing such as this, or privately, to meet my conctitnents and learn their views and wishes in respect to their public requirements. I have to thank yon very kindly for the way you havo listened to me, and for tho influential attendance here this evening. I am sorry I conld not condense my remarks into a shorter space. I thank you very much for yonr attention. [Mr Ilolloaton resumed his seat amidst considerable applause.] In answer to questions, Mr Eollsston would not like to give a hasty opinion in favor or otherwise as to the establishment of a National Bank of Issue. He considered if all property was taxed on tho Government basis, a very desirable result would follow. As regarded the remission of the customs’ duties on tea, sugar, lice, &c., and tho substitution therefor of n progressive land tax on block holders of 1000 acres and npwards.it was a question he should like a little' more time in which to arrive at a decision, as it was a very important one, and ho would like first to know if tho proposed progressive land tax would bring enongh revenue to meet tho deficiency thus caused. He was not at present prepared, however, to advocate a progressive land tax, and did not think it advisable to drop the easily collected Custom a revenue in favour of another imposition. As to all public works being undertaken by the County Councils, the funds for which should be raised by rates levied on the district, bnt provided bv the General Government, and thus preventing log-rolling in Parliament, he thought log-rolling was to some extent inherent in human nature. It would be very desirable to separate local from general finance if practicable, but there were some districts unable to raise money themselves, and to which an absolute rule could not bo laid down. The Parliament of the day must deal with that question in the best way it could. Ko believed that the principle referred to was theoretically tho right one, and that they should try to work as near to it possible j but if asked whether ha thought it possible to effect that object at tho present time, he would say ho did not think it was. [Applause] He had omitted to touch upon the education question owing to want of time, bnt he would express his opinion on the matter, having had to do with it from the beginning. From the coarse then adopted by him he had never deviated, and his decided opinion was that the national system was the one that must be adopted. 1 Applause ] He did not wish to be misrepresented, or to trim or hedge his remarks with any qualification, because ho felt very strongly that the system of educ tion in the colony mn‘i continno to be a national one, and ho had endeavoured to make it as fair to all clas.es of the community as possible. [Applause ] Tho Jockey Club charged one shilling for admission to tho racecourse by virtue of an Act passed by the Provincial Council. The race meetings depended largely on funds being so raised, and he thought tho course adopted a fair one. As regarded taking a portion of the four hours devoted to secn'ar instruction in tho schools of the colony, for tho purpose of imparting religions teaching, he did not think oar system of instruction conld be mixed np with denominational considerations. [Bond cheers.] Ho could not say he would repeal tho Gaming and Lotteries Act. Ho had had very little experience in such matters. The present Act was a copy of tho English Act, and he did not see the wisdom of repealing it. As to the Property Tax Exemption, he had never seen why the arbitrary line which had been drawn should havo been adopted. Ho had always held that everybody should contribute according to their moans to tho advantage of tho commonwealth of the country, and ha saw no reason why any exemption should be made. [Applanso J A good deal of nonsense had been talked about giving tho Natives an opportunity to prove their claim to the West Coast lands in a Court of Law. Ho did not believe in making an offer to refer to a Court of Law that which was a foregone conclusion. Tho Courts of Law would not go beyond the laws of the country. No Court would order that land sold by tho Crown, and occupied by Europeans, ehonld be given back to the Natives. There was no question that tho West Coast Settlements Act, which ought to bo looked upon by tho Natives as tho charter of their liberties, could not bo set aside by any Court of Law in tho country. [Applause.] Therefore it was a mockery to offer such a resort to the Natives. What was the good of sending them to a Court of Law which was guided by the law of tho country, when wo knew what that law was to begin with ? [Applause.] With reference to tho reduction in tho pay of the Armed Constabulary not applying to tho officers of that force, so far as he recollected, the officers had been previously dealt with, and placed at a fair rate ; bnt he could not give a conclusive answer, as ho was not at that timein charge of tho department. As to the dismissals from tho police force, ho supposed some were wanted and some were not. There was, no doubt, good reason for the dismissals. Tho amended Drainage Bill allowed certain differences in tho taxation of different districts. The borrowing powers of tho Drainage Board had come to an end, and tho burden must bo borne in tho way as arranged. At tho same time it would be as well if each district was so rated as to only pay for what it got. As to opposing the concession of fresh borrowing powers to that body, and taking care that Papanni did not pay for what it did not got any bonefit from, he would do his beat, but they must remember he was only one amongst many. The question as to the proportion paid respectively by the Papanni and tho Avon districts was determined by the machinery appointed under tho Act. Ho remembered Mr Kruse and others, some three or four years ago, asking that a fresh railway shed should bo erected for the reception of grain at Papanni, and his impression was that some additions had been subsequently made. If, however, more accommodation was required, and tho matter brought under his notice in tho usual manner, ho would bo very glad to attend to it. Mr John T. Matson moved that tho meeting accord a hearty vote of thanks to Mr Kolleaton, and expresses its confidence in him as a fit and proper person to represent tho district of Avon