PARLIAMENTARY.

Globe, Volume XXIII, Issue 2318, 8 September 1881, Page 3

PARLIAMENTARY.

la i _ . I Wbekhidat, Sbp. tembbs I The Cod’ oo *! met at 2.30 p. m- , ~ ~ On the Von- 3. T. Peaooc * a Akaroa High Bill, the l second reading of Which was * p . previous sittin J Mt down for tho 860001 ' [ reading next day. a j ; ,g I The Hon. Captain .Feasbb movfiv ,l ,1 I was carried—“ That in the opinion t %te--11 Council, Government immedu j I appoint a qualified medical Bu'oerintendent. . ( the Otago Lunatic Asylum.” , I The Waimate Racecourse Rjlfirvtf JJtfl, . j Waimate and Temuka Public Schools Sites

, I Bill, and Roxburgh Recreation Grossi . I Management Bill, were read a second time, i j Other business was deferred, and Cl , I Council rose at 5 p.m. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Wednesday, Sbftbitbeb 7. I The House reassembled at 2.30. I QUESTIONS. I Replying to Mr Reid, I The Hon, T, Dick said that a revised seal I of fees in the Resident Magistrates’ Obnrts wa J under the consideration of the Government I and would shortly be produced. Replying to Sir W. Fox, I The Hon. T. Dick said the Oovernmenl I had private, bat no official, information thal a person who had been degraded from th( I Christian ministry in Scotland on account oi habitual intemperance was appointed to the I mastership of a Government school in Otago district by the Board of that districtthat he has since, on account of intemperance and gross neglect of duty, been removed from that school, but reappointed to another, and repeatedly removed and reappointed to other I Government schools, the last of such instances having occurred only a few weeks ago; also, that the person alluded to is in receipt of an allowance of £SO a year on account of his possessing an University degree, a bonus which presumes superior fitness in the person enjoying it. It was a matter which belonged to the functions of the Education Board, and Government bad no right to interfere. He believed, however, that what was stated was quite true. In view of one or two cases of this kind reported to him, he had caused a circular to be issued calling upon Local Boards to report all such cases, with the view of getting the defaulters’ certificates cancelled. One or two such oases hod been reported, but the case of the individual in question had not been reported. Replying to Sir W. Fox, The Hon. T. Dice said that a report had reached Government, and further enquiries would be made, with the view of bringing the accused person to trial if there were grounds, into the circumstances attending the inquest on the body of a child at Grey town, shown by the evidence to have been scalded to death, and in which case, after a verdict amounting to manslanghter against the medical man employed at the birth of tho child, a charge of manslaughter was further brought before the R.M. for the district, Mr Wardell, who summarily dismissed the case. On a formal motion for adjournment, Mr Bunny gave an account of the circumstances of the case, which completely exonerated the medical man from the charge imputed to him.

Sir W. Fox denied that the account given of the affair was correct, adding that it was a well known fact that the medical man in question had within a few weeks previously been under restraint, arising from excessive drunkenness. Mr Bunny admitted that such was the ease, but demurred to the fact relied upon for the purposes of the question tabled, the whole affair was tho result of rivalry on the part of certain of tho local medical men, who desired to drive the accused man out of the district.

Replying to Mr Barron, The Hon. W. Rollbbton said the Government had not yet decided the form in which the sum of £IOOO on the estimates for volunteering purposes should be distributed, whether by capitation grant or allowance for clothing. As already stated, it would depend on a report to be obtained from a board of officers. Replying to Mr Hutchison, The Hon. T. Dice said that the remarks made by Dr. Philaon, the medical officer of the Auckland Board of Health, remonstrating against the relaxed quarantine regulations, would be remitted to the General Board of Health for consideration.

MISCELLANEOUS. Id the absence of Mr Sheehan, the Hon. Mr Whitaker introduced a Bill to make further provision for extending and securing the liberty of the press, which was read a first time. On the motion of the Hon. W. Johnston, the Fisheries Bill was read a second time. The Crowns Sait end Parliamentary Pri. vileges Bills passed through committee, the former being read a third time and passed. On the motion for going into committee on the Post-Office Bill, Mr Mobs said he wished the Government to state the course of business intended to be followed. He felt that the old relations existing between the Chair and the House bad been destroyed. The wish of a number of members, in common with himself, was that the Government should bring down the estimates and allow these Bills to be dealt with by a Parliament better constituted. The Hon. J. Hall said that, consistent with the duty they owed to the country, the business would be proceeded with as fast as possible. He reprobated the reflection cast on the conduct of the Speaker, and challenged him to proceed in that matter by formal motion.

Mr Mobs replied that he would do so, but there was no prospect of a motion being allowed to come up this session. The House then went into committee on the Post-Office Bill, which was passed and reported. The House adjourned at 5.30. EVENING SITTING. The House resumed at 7.30, THIRD READINGS.

The Timaru Harbor Board Bill passed through committee, and, together with the Post-office Bill, was reported, read a third time, and passed. NEW PLYMOUTH HARBOR BILL. The Hon. J. Hall moved the second reading of the New Plymouth Harbor Commission Bill. Mr Kelly submitted that it was to all intents and purposes a local Bill, and as such it ought to have been notified by advertisement in the district or locality affected by the Bill. Since the abolition of provinces, this precaution had been rendered absolutely necessary, and it was a wise precaution, as many valuable rights might be done away with without the parties interested knowing anything about it. The Bill in question proposed to take away valuable endowments and revest them in the Crown. In that way the Bill ought to be dealt with as a local Bill, and made subject to the Standing Order re advertising such Bills. The Speaker ruled that the House having on a report of a committee, ordered the Bill to be introduced, and as it dealt with large colonial interests, it could not be held to be a local Bill.

Mr KbMiT further argued that it was a money Bill, and ought to have been introduced in committee of the whole House. In support of that contention he quoted from May, page 47. Then again it was a Bill which affected trade, the Harbor Board having powers to levy tolls, &c., and it was proposed to vest these powers in the Governor. In its character of a money Bill clause 12 was an appropriation clause. Again it gave power to the Governor to levy a rate, and as such it ought to have been introduced in committee of the whole.

The Speakee said the main object of the Bill was to enquire into and report upon certain works, and as such he ruled it was not necessary to introduce it in committee of the whole.

The Hon, J. Hah. then proceeded to move the second reading. He reminded them that the committee had recommended that the works should be (topped, and that the Government be recommended to take over the whole. Subsequently it was agreed that a Parliamentary Commission should be appointed to enquire into the whole matter, and this Bill was introduced to give effect to that determination. He then proceeded to give a general outline of its provisions. The Government recommended that three Commissioners should be appointed, and would suggest that Mr B. C. J. Stevens and Captain Bussell be appointed, as also a professional engineer, upon whom the Government had not yet decided. The duties of the Commissioners, and the purposes of the Commission, were next detailed. For the present Government would taka over the property of the Board, as well as its functions. That was deemed necessary to protect the interests of the bondholders under the loan contracted by the Board. He did not per-

sotally approve of the course now propose to be adopted. It would have been better a commission had at onoe been appolntoi with power to say whether the works shoul go on or not. That course would have bee i better, as it would have removed the deoisio ) from all political influence; but the Si k proposed to fulfil the terms already agreed t 1 Mr Wakefield said it appeared to hii that it would bo an exceedingly unjust thin ; to put a stop to the work at once, and su; i gested that the question should be left for tb commission to determine without interferenc ■ on the part of the Legislature. He believe that the land fund endowment was the sol justification for the House now interfering i the way proposed with a local body. But fo h at he could not be a party to the Houa rfering with the Hoard at all. The com , no 6 k a d time to enquire into ol mira»v 0 f the case, and he felt that the; the fax - e( j a t a foregone conclusion. Wha bad arrs> ted was, that they should make i

he depresa. on this work, and thereby esta political ssft ngerous precedent. Indeed,! Diisb a very da ft wou i d pi aoa any similai that were done, , of ft political party. Or body at the - 000 gni 6 ed the important the other hand, *. , blic interests. In com of protecting the pw d make tho oommi g. rnittee he would try aa» svoners' decision Shall vr_ Umiß j ' luo “ that was said Mr Hwrbt agreed wit!& x The aotion by the previous, speaker.. . in his opinion, posed committed tho colony,. j t waß no t to a very important precedent ag tbe b d so much the saving of £l'oo;<3£o ] ead t h e precedent cf doing anything to . nk t hat creditors of these local 1 bodies- to- BJv their the colony was really to take arcs , ; liabilities. He would test their Reeling*, committee on this, on the 11th and’ lV ' i clauses, by moving that the payment s\x taken out of the consolidated fund of Kiwi colony. They wsuld still be accepting the- I liability, but he would do his best to guard 1 \

the colony by acting in the way he had indicated. The work might be of value ter the district of Taranaki, but it would not be of any use as a harbor of refuge. He would support tho appointment of a commission) advocating tho view that the question of pro- | eeeding with the work or not should be left in the hands pf the Commissioners. He looked upon the step proposed as a most important one, establishing, as it was calculated to do, a precedent fraught with many serious consequences. He referred to the removal of the seat of Government as an instance of the bad effect resulting from an action similar to this. In that case no compensation was given to those who had been induced to settle in Auckland on the strength of its retaining the seat of Government. In this case, however, he thought it would be only fair that persons similarly misled should be compensated for the loss occasioned by the action proposed by the Government. He also reproved the House for the reckless way in which it had been going on, endowing this and that Harbor Hoard, arguing that it encouraged the inauguration of these reckless and ill-considered undertakings. Mr Stewaet agreed in the opinion that the ultimate fate of the work should be entrusted to _ the (Commission. He would prefer seeing the Commission solely composed of professional men. If the progress of the work was arrested the Government could not step in and ask the inhabitants to contribute a rate for a work that was never completed. He scouted the idea of paying oompenaation to parties settling in the districts if the works were stopped. Parties settled in these places were subject to any exigency that might arise, and no question of compensation could be entertained. The Hon. Major Atkinson said that, speaking as Treasurer, be spoke at a disadvantage, as his judgment was liable to be warped. As being a member of the district, the Bill, he ventured to say, was nothing less than a oolonialiaation of the whole of these local loans, and but for the position in which he stood he would take a very different stand. He asked in whose interest was this Bill taken. He ventured to say it was not in ths interest of the settlers of the district. Then, again, could the colony profit by it p He argued that by no process could the colony get out of it without incurring a loss of from £17,000 to £22,500. He denied that the conclusion arrived at by the committee os to the rating powers of the district was reliable. The rating area would be at least doubled in twelve months, and in tho course of ten years it would be equal to £20,000. They had 50,000 acres in the hands of Government, and there was at least half.a-million acres more which would also come under tho operations of tho rating danse of the Act. As Colonial Trea- ' surer be gave it as his candid opinion that the area would be quite capable of hearing the 1 rate. If this Bill passed the only persons ' who would benefit by the transaction would ' be tho bondholders, and their property would be increased in value by the colonial guarantee. He could see no reason for passing this Bill, unless they were prepared to oolonialise the ' whole of the liabilities of these local bodies. As representative of the district he referred first to the 25 per cent, land fund endowment. \ He denied that that was an unfair advantage. It was that moderation that had placed them in the present position. Had they asked for an endowment of 50,000 or 60,000 acres there could be no doubt but they would have \ got it. The total amount they could receive under the endowment was £124,000, so that 1 under the land endowment they would have been infinitely better off. When the landed estate was handed over to the Southern provinces, £36,000 was handed over to Taranaki, the balance of which was subsequently swept back to the consolidated fund. Then, again, Taranaki was done out of its proportion of the fund set aside for the purchase of a landed estate for the North Island'. These two sums amounted to considerably more than the half of the landed endowment for Harbor Board purposes. He ventured to say that under these circumstances the grant was not by any means an unreasonable one. Then, again, he pointed out that the Taranaki people had backed up their opinion by imposing a rate, and he believed that if asked to-morrow the majority would still be prepared to back their opinion in the same way. Ho then reviewed the different districts of the province to show the state of feeling existing in connection with this work, summing up the whole by saying that the parties more immediately interested, and who would be benefitted, were quite willing to see those who were not likely to be benefitted by the work, relieved from the rate and the excess thereof imposed upo a those who were so willing to be rated. No better guarantee of good faith could possibly be afforded. The House was afraid the work could not be done far the money. That was no ground for interfering, otherwise the interference of the House would be endless, as it would have to interfere in almost every public work carried on under local supervision in the colony. He was one who resisted this work until the best possible engineering opinions on the subject had been secured. As Minister of Marino, he thought the committee should have called him as to the probable cost, seeing that all the papers had gone through his hands. They asked the marine engineer to furnish them, with the probable cost of the work, and before it was furnished they brought in their report. He thought the committee might have explained that fact to the House. Ho had since ascertained that the engineer’s estimate since made was that the work could be carried out to Y. T. for a sum of £37,000 more than the Board had got, which was £1X5,000. With the money it had in hand, the breakwater could, according to the committee, be carried out to ten or twelve feet walls, and, according to the estimate of tho marine engineer, to a depth of sixteen or seventeen feet. He hoped this House would not bo a party to suddenly stopping the work. He agreed to tho rating power, and was willing that those districts which objected should bo exempted. He would not object to the second reading, but in committee he would do his best to get the prosecution left in the hands of the commission. He concluded by saying that ho hoped they would not do the district an injustice simply because Mr Wright, the chairman of the committee, had taken up tho role of political reformer. Sir G. Obey said that Sir John Goode was an old friend of his, and before leaving the colony that gentleman had expressed to him the very highest opinion of Mr Blackett’s ability and reliability as an engineer. He himself had been educated as an engineer, and in 1848 he, and some eminent military engineers then in the colony, had planned a harbor of refuge at Now Plymouth, estimating the cost at about £IOO,OOO more than Sir John Goode's estimate. He had all along believed in and advocated the construction of such a work. But then came a new race of men foremost, amongst them the Colonial Treasurer, who for a very long time indeed resisted that opinion. He deprecated tho idea of the Government interfering in such work at all, stating that ho was strongly of opinion that if they onoe stepped in and acknowledged their liability to the breditors of local bodies they would be establishing a

d very bad precedent indeed. They ought not to if act hastily in the matter. He was astonished 1, at the sudden fury with which this report d was taken up. A competent commission a should be appointed, with power to dispose 0 finally 5* question. To stop the works il now would be a most disastrous course. He 1. therefore counselled them to pause in a they were doing. There was no need to g appoint the commission in a great hurry, • and having appointed it they should e leave all to them. He was afraid that a the rating areas had not been fair. His 1 mind on that point had been relieved by what 9 the Treasurer had said. That objection re--1 moved, he could see no possible objection to r the proposal by previous speakers. A further 3 expenditure for two or three weeks could do . no harm compared with the harm likely to I arise from the steps now proposed to be taken r of stopping the work suddenly. ; Mr Kelly complained that there wefe 1 other witnesses besides the Treasurer who might have been called but were not by the the committee. Again, some of the witnesses who were examined were dismissed in a curt and improper manner, and were refused an opportunity for amending their evidence, a privilege always given to witnesses. A great deal more care should have been taken by the committee. The people of Taranaki had been charged by Mr Wright with duplicity in the statements they had made about the establishment of a penal settlement there. That charge was perfectly unfounded. A statement of the facts of tho case having been made he (Mr Kelly) invited Mr Wright to apologise for the accusation. He then went on to criticise the estimates and comparative estimates put forward by the commission in its report, arguing that they were altogether erroneous. With the cash in hand they could carry out the breakwater to 17ft. at low water, which was sufficient for enabling steamers the Me of the Hawea to came in at all states of tide. He went on to argue that the harfl nd its prevailing winds and currents were "L Me to the construction of such work. au- 'rt of the harbormaster was that 300 mV he year steamers could discharge at ayr m- Bv nd tbe rema i n i Dß fif tT tbev CQn M

th« wharf' . remaining niuy laey COUId lie in safety a, ' anchorage outside. At least : three-quarters' v. lf . tha ratepayers were m favor of the" work he. completed, buildings had been erected, and heavy engagements entered upon. ° nly i st J erly proposed to set up , S Zf. \ ma ° ufaot °7* He mentioned then? . faot * to '<*? greafc inconvenience sol 088 bo occasioned- if the ' ror s r T?* bo suddenly pub a> stop- V * Jie t “°ught that Taranaki would have & \ ery for compensation if that eota. w ®f a lowed. He instanced a eaae ant, er ,, t “, e * m ’ perial Government where relief ol “M had, to his knowledge, been afford*. course proposed would be to- open the v ’ loor ™ speculation, as those bonds wouH . assuredly be bought up for the sake of . guarantee if the Bill was parsed. Proper. \ in Taranaki bad already gone down, and it the works were permanently stopped the-’' permanent decrease would be from 15 to 30 per cent. He therefore hoped the Bill would be changed in the direction of leaving the whole question to be dealt with by the proposed Commission. Mr Weight said he had little to reply to. The course followed in the debate had been * * no case abuse counsel for the opposite side.” He read a number of communications from public meetings held in the district concerning the report, and thanking him for his efforts to put an end to what was described as an abuse of the public expenditure. He defended the estimated price of the respective works set forth in the report. Founded on these facts, he argued it was ridiculous to say that the work could be executed at anything like the cost alleged by the member for New Plymouth. At Timaru and Oamaru the conditions were greatly superior. The cost of cement work per cubic yard was 335, and it was nonsense to say that at New Plymouth it could bo done for 255. He had been blamed for not having called certain witnesses, especially Mr Carrington. The Commission decided that it was not necessary. Mr Carrington did tender his evidence, but as the report was closed, he told him that if he thought his evidence important, he should communicate it to the Speaker. In contradiction to what had been stated, he was convinced that nine-tenths of the settlers were not content to be rated for this work. They had been told as to the area of rating land, but they had not been told as to the validity of the land. He had reason to believe that the available area was greatly overstated. The expenditure ■ was £16,000 per annum, and tho revenue was altogether uncertain. The sources of revenue were to a great extent deferred payment settlers, and they had evidence in that House how very uncertain that source was. They bad made a boast of not having taken a landed endowment like some of the other provinces of 50,000 o 60,000 acres, whereas the faot was that they had not that extent of land to take. Their modesty was therefore readily understood. The plea of depreciating the value of property was counteracted by the evidence of the Chief Surveyor that the imposition of tho shilling rate had driven away men of means from settling in the district. He trusted they would not consent to give the power to the commission of deciding whether or not the work should be gone on with. He quoted from the “ Taranaki Herald,” in which it was stated that the harbor had been in great difficulties before, and in all probability it would be able to pull through this. That gave them an insight into the character of the undertaking. He had been talked of as a young reformer. Last year he was one of those who supported the Bailway Commission, and on that occasion the Treasurer did not taunt him. The faot was that that report suited his particular views rather better than this report did. Mr Eichaedson spoke in favor of the Commission being left to say whether or not the work should be gone on with. Sir W. Fox supported a similar view. The House would be bound to accept the decision of the Commission, and there was no reason why operations should be postponed. He blamed the disputes that bad been going on between the Board and its engineer and servants as a great source of the whole difficulty. The enquiry, so far as it had gone, had not been uncalled for. Mr Montgomery expressed a similar opinion. Mr McOaughan argued that the expenditure was out of all proportion to the commercial importance of the place. He was well pleased that Mr Wright had at last succeeded in unearthing this hydra-headed monster Taranaki, a place with an export trade not exceeding £66 per month. Mr Weston spoke in favor of the commission having the final disposal of the question. Mr Fulton defended the report of the commission, Mr Pitt thought the House should reserve the final disposal of the question to itself. Mr Ballance considered the Bill objectionable from beginning to end. The responsibility of going on with the work should not be left with the commission, but the Government should take the responsibility. Mr Moss agreed in that opinion. It was evident that the work had been undertaken without due regard to the probabilities of the Board being able to carry it out, relying on the colony to see them through any difficulty. He was afraid there were many similar bodies in the same condition, and for that reason a more active supervision of such undertakings should bo taken by the Government, Mr Saundbes said it was evident enough that tho whole thing was out and dry, and it was perfectly absurd to go through the farce of appointing this Commission. This wasteful expenditure was evidently to go on, and it was nonsense to go through the farce of passing this Bill. The two members named for the Commission were simply an outside executive, and it was well known how their report would go. Mr HtTESTHOtrsE supported the Bill. Mr Tdbnbull expressed his entire confidence in the two Commissioners named. Ho believed the commission would do its duty in accordance with the evidence adduced. Other persons interested said they could adduce further evidence, and this Commission would offer an opportunity for so doing. He wss glad to find that they were disposed tJ Rive tho requisite power, and not delay all further operations until next session. He did not believe that there would bo any loss, even although the Government had to take over the work. As an opponent of the harbor works he said it ought to be decided as fast as possible. The Hon. J. Hail replied ho did not think Mr Saunders was justified in the remarks be made in reference to the Commissioners named. He had asked Mr Eichardson to act, but ho positively declined. He would be glad to see the alteration made in the Bill in the direction indicated. The motion for the second reading was put and carried, and the Bill ordered to be committed for Friday.