PARLIAMENTARY.

Globe, Volume XXIII, Issue 231, 6 September 1881, Page 3

PARLIAMENTARY.

[press association telegram.] HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Monday, September 5. Tbs House met at 2.30 p.m. notices op motion. Mr Gibbs gave notice of motion, to the effect that the action of the Chairman of Committees on Friday evening in refusing to put a motion proposed by Mr Gisborne for reporting progress, with the view of getting his ruling reviewed by the Speaker, was contrary to Parliamentary practice, ’ended to curtail the freedom of debate, and was calculated to strike a blow at the liberties of the people. The Hon. J. Hall gave notice of motion for moving sittings for Wednesdays and Thursdays for the despatch of private members’ business. prbsonal. Mr Sheehan called attention to a series of Parliamentary sketches which appeared in the columns of the “ Otago Daily Times ” on Saturday, September 3rd, which he characterised as reeking with libel. He specially drew attention to a statement to the effect that, second to Mr Sheehan, there was no man in the House who showed such evil contempt for Parliamentary authority than Mr Seymour George. Ho concluded by moving that the registered printer and publisher be summoned to appear before the bar of the House. Ho explained that he had merely made the motion to enable him to draw the attention of the House to this abuse of journalistic probity, and, having done so, he asked to be allowed to withdraw the motion. Leave was given and the motion withdrawn. QUESTIONS. Replying to Mr Pitt, The Hon. T. Dick stated the Government saw no reason why the sentence of Newman Burley, at present confined in Nelson gaol, should bo farther remitted. It would expire next year. Replying to Mr Shanks, The Hon, Major Atkinson said that Government would follow the recommendations of the committee in the petition of Sophia Eidd. Replying to Mr Reeves, The Hon. W. Bollbston said that Government did not see the necessity for establishing an 'arsenal in the colony for the manufacture of gunpowder and other explosives. Replying to Mr Reeves, The Hon. T. Dick said that a former resident magistrate in Canterbury, who some time since retired on a pension and left the colony for England, and recently returned to the colony, has been re-appointed Resident Magistrate for Lyttelton at a salary of £IOO per annum in addition to his pension, and it was also true, that owing to enfeebled health, another magistrate had for a few weeks acted for him, and the Clerk of the Court at Lyttelton had sat upon the Bench as a J.P., but on the attention of Government being called to the fact he was directed to resign his J.P.-ship, which he did.

Replying to Mr Wright, The Hon. J. Hall said that the obstruction to the public business was the reason why the New Plymouth Harbor Commission Bill had not been circulated, and although they had no power to suspend the Board’s operations, Government had no reason for supposing that the work at the breakwater was being still pushed on. Replying to Mr Hutchison, The Hon. Major Atkinson said that changes were in contemplation regarding the use of adhesive stamps in payment of fees, and alto for the payment of office charges and legal penalties in cash instead of stamps. Replying to Mr Hutchison, The Hon. T. Dick said he had looked into the newspaper report of the case Edgar v Montrose, tried by Mr Northoroft, R.M., at Cambridge. It looked as if there was something unjust in the proceedings, and the Government would institute a formal enquiry into the real facts of the case.

Replying to Mr Pitt, The Hon. T. Dice said he was not aware it was possible by means of a bonus to promote the weaving of woollen goods by cottagers and others. Replying to Mr Gibbs, The Hon. W. Rollbston said provision existed for exploring and opening up the country inland from Oollingwood, and Government would be prepared to consider the necessity for supplementing the same. Replying to Mr Wakefield, The Hon. W. Eollebton said that certain concessions had been made by the Waste Lands Board of Otago to the Ooswell Sound Marble Company, leases of 320 acres having been granted. Governmeift nad also made certain concessions to the company for the conveyance of their freight in tho Government steamer.

Replying to Mr McDonald, The Hon. W. Roblbston said that Government declined to go on in the meantime with the surrey of the To Koutu block, near Ohinomutu. KBW BUM. The following Bills were introduced and read a first time :—To enable persons entering upon the tenancy of houses where gas is laid on, to be supplied with the same without being called upon to pay the arrears of previous tenants (Mr Hutchison) ; The Patents Act Amendment (Hon. T. Dick); The Waipawa Land Dispute (Hon. W. Rolleston) ; The Leaseholders Qualification : a Bill to enable the Governor, on the petition of a majority of the electors of any county, to declare that the Counties Act 1876 shall be enforced therein (Hon. J. Hall) ; To protect the property and goods of persons from unreasonable distress and seizure (Sir G. Grey). THB BEPEESBNTATION BILE, The debate on the third reading of the Representation Bill was resumed by Mr Gibbobne, who argued ot some length that the Bill, os it stood, was one which would encourage plurality of voting. Mr Habris said if the Bill passed, separation would be the best thing which could happen for both islands. Mr Seddon said that if the property qualification was abandoned, and each man limited to one vote, all opposition to a redistribution of representation on a population basis would be done away with. Mr Taiaeoa said that if the Government was determined not to increase the special representation, why did they not allow the Maoris to be placed on the electoral roll and bo benefited by the European representation. The debate was interrupted by the 5.30 adjournment.

EVENING- SITTING. The House resumed at 7.30. REPEESBNTATION BILL. Mr Taiaeoa continued tho debate. Mr Eebyes followed, saying that he felt his hands tied and hie mouth gagged, but still he must oppose tho Bill to tho utmost. Sir G. Grey complained of having when speaking on Eriday been ruled out of order when alluding to the consequences which might result from tho concentration of political power in a few governing families. He held that the Bill should be entitled not a Representation Bill but one to further limit the electorate rights of the people of New Zealand. If full freedom of speech was not accorded him to speak as a statesman should do at all time then it was no use his speaking at all. He would, however, proceed to speak fully and openly, and he hoped he would be permitted now to do so. New Zealand was he believed in a more desperate condition on tho land question than oven Ireland. Tho people had been plundered by chicanery and the manipulation of political power. The Premier had certainly stolen his clothes often enough, but this Bill was not of his garments. Ho explained the difference between this Bill and tho one he had drafted. Ho had never offered unfair opposition to tho Bill. Even the very night before tho coup d'etat, he and Mr Macandrew had boon engaged in drawing up a compromise, which ho believed would have been accepted, that the towns should not bo divided ; that no additional power should be given to property, and that the case of Nelson should be submitted to tho House in a separate clause. When the action of Eriday night was taken, however, he saw that all hope of a peaceful settlement was at an end, and determined to have nothing more to do with men capable of such conduct. He was not at all ;jealous of increased representation to the Middle Island. He wanted the representation of all the colony according to population. The Maoris in the North Island he thought, should be taken into account, but he would not even insist on this if equal voting power was secured to every elector in the colony. He spoke at length on tho acquisition of large landed estates in the colony. Ho would suffer anything to expose the wrongs already perpetrated and likely to be perpetuated by this Bill. The state of land matters in New Zealand was

more alarming than in Ireland. In the latter country there were 135 persona bolding over 10,000 acres, and in New Zealand 250 parsons; 90 holding 20,000 acres in Ireland, and 118 persons in New Zealand; fourteen persons _ held over 50.000 acres in Ireland, and in this country | 36 persons. In Ireland three parsons held over 100.000 acres, and in Now Zealand there were seven. That was the state of things as between Ireland and this country. In Now Zealand these large proportions were acquired by—lst, the gridironing system ; and 2nd, what was called the pre-emptive right. The modus operandi followed in both cases was described, after which the speaker wont on to say that nothing more unfair could possibly be conceived. Under the pre-emptive system 350.000 acres were alienated, and as it allowed the selectors ton years to complete their rights, the colony by that means was robbed of the interest on their 350,000 acres, or as a money consideration, £350,000. It was against such wrongs as these he lifted up his voice, and he would continue to do so, even although he went through New Zealand hooted by every man in the country. Was it reasonable that the country should be trusted in the hands of men of the class indicated above. That was the question they were brought face to face with. These wore dangerous truths, and it was in view of that fact that the Premier sought to shut their mouths. They also endeavored to bribe others by granting them increased voting powers. If this design succeeded, he could foresee suffering humanity amidst a few wealthy men, perhaps not living here at all, but spending their ill got gain in another country. Foreseeing this be would not, he could not remain silent. How was this state of affairs ever to be got right it a Bill of this kind passed, which gave the man who had committed the wrong in the first case eight or nine votes as a reward for that very wrong doing. The time would come when these things would bo understood, and understood with bitterness in New Zealand. The enormous area of 1,100,000 acres in New Zealand, had been divided amongst 1632 persons, These were the men who were steadily fighting on to ride over them, serfs, aye, and serfs of the lowest grade. It was against such a doom as this they had to strive. Leave this Bill as it was, and it meant the power of sending a majority of that class to the House. It meant the whole control of all offices, as well as of the lands, in short, it meant the means for seeming greater power than it yet had. Not only would it be a moans of inflicting further injury, but it would bo the means of validating past wrongs, as witness the Validation Acts from time to time passed by this very Government and its predecessors. He told them that he would resist every step through which this Bill must yet pass, even though he stood solitary and alone.

Mr Sattndbbb said they had heard that hind of deolamation night after night, despite the fact that those who uttered it knew that it was wholly groundless. The Bill which was now denounced was in reality,’as had been shown, the Bill of his (Sir G. Grey’s) own Cabinet. They had also been told that he dissented from it. It was remarkable, however, that that dissent did not take the form of a resignation on his part; that of itself was a most significant fact. There was no great danger to bo apprehended from property. The tyranny was to be apprehended from the opposite class, the ne’er-do-well unemployed and others who never did anything worthy of respect or consideration of the country. He was proceeding to say that there was no reason for any honest man to be unemployed in this country when his remarks were interrupted by howling and hooting from the public gallery. The Speaxbe said if any interruption took place there he would cause the gallery to be cleared at once. Mr Tuenbuix said he would call attention to strangers being present. The Speaxbe said he had sufficient authority, and would exercise it if necessary. Mr Satodkbs then proceeded, protesting against the efforts made to set class against class. Mr Hutchison maintained that there were many industrious hard working men who had been unable to find employment, a faot which he attributed to the action of the Government, He did not look upon the Bill as at all calculated to do injury to the colony or to the North Island. Bor that reason be would vote for the third reading as a step in the right direction. He apprehended, however, that they were getting this Bill at a humiliating sacrifice. The majority had had to ooeroo the minority. There was a great deal said about the right of minorities to 'coerce majorities now, but he reminded the Government that about the time they came into office they held their seats when decidedly in a minority until it suited their purpose to allow the question to go to the vote after securing a majority. If ever there was a sitting of committee which required great deliberation it was on the schedules of this Bill, and yet they had been told that they would have to swallow the schedule just as it stood. Then, again, partiality was shown, as some persons were allowed to speak on a variety of subjects and others were not allowed to speak on any subject. He had himself had something to say, but he felt there was no use in attempting to say it. He did not wish to bo stopped by the Speaker as some others had been. What he wished to say was that he was not very sure but that they were getting this Bill at too dear a price, at the price of a limitation of fair debate and criticism.

Mr Hurst contended that the representation as between the North and South Islands ought to have been left unaltered. He contended still that it was only right that the Maoris should have been included in the population basis. He was not so sure but that the inequality would eventually lead to the dismemberment of the colony. They had a series of resolutions in that direction at present on the Order Paper, and ho believed that both North and South, from different reasons, might desire it again, and he believed that the passage of the Bill would probably lead to the seat of Government being changed, and he thought very properly so, as the site was fixed for the convenience ot members, and that of the majority could be best consulted by meeting at Christchurch. Sir G. Grey had voted for the second reading, although he now objected to the Bill, whereas be himself bad opposed the Bill from the very first. Ho would support the amendment for reading that day six months, although he know that the Bill would pass. Mr Lundon criticised the remarks made by Mr Saunders, which he characterised as “ rot.” On being called to order ho went on to say that Mr Saunders had attempted to speak down the working man, when he was stopped by a howl of indignation from the gallery. He was again called to order. Ho stated that there was one class of men in the Assembly who could say what they liked, while the other was allowed to say nothing. The Hon. J. Haiti then called attention to the statement, and the speaker was again called to order. He concluded by saying ho would vote against the Bill.

The question for the third reading as against the amendment was then put, and on a division there voted—Ayes, 48; noes, 20. Division list:—

Ayes. —Messrs Allwright, Andrews, Atkinson, Bain, Barron. Beatham, Bowen, Brandon, Brown, Bunny, Dick, Driver, Fisher, J. B. (Buffer), Fisher, J. T. (Heathcote), Sir W. Fox, Messrs Fulton, Hall, Hurst, H. (Wallace), Hutchison, Johnston, Jones, Kenny, Levin, Macandrew, MoOaughan, McDonald, Montgomery, Murray, Oliver, Pyke, Bolleston, Saunders, Seymour, Shanks, Shrimski, Stevens, Stewart, Studholme, Sutton, Swanson, Thomson, Trimble, Turnbull, Wakefield, Wallace, Whitaker, Why to, Wright. Noes— -Messrs Ballance, Collins, George, Gibbs, Gisborne, Hamlin, Harris, Hurst, Hursthouse, Levestam, Lundon, Pitt, Reid, Bussell, Seddon, Sheehan, Shephard, Speight, Tole, Weston. Pairs —For —Messrs DoLautour, Finn, McLean, Richardson. Against—Messrs Ormond, Reeves, Moss, Sir G. Grey. A second division on the third reading resulted —Ayes, 48 j noes, 19. On the question that the Biff do now pass. Mr Seddon moved an addition ot the words “ provided it shall have no force or effect until after the next general election.” The Speaker ruled that this was substantially the same as a proposal already negatived that the Biff should not come into force until after next session of Parliament. Ho could not therefore receive it.

Mr Seddon spoke on the question that the Bill do now pass.

Messrs Sheehan and LEVESTAii also spoke on the same question. Mr Huksthottbe, in a few remarks, said that although circumstances might compel him at times to vote, as on this occurrence, with Sir Q-. Grey, ho never could bring himself to believe in his sincerity. His speech that night had been wholly at variance with his action.

Messrs Pitt, Sheppard, and Gisborne spoke at length agahsst the Bill, and Messrs Montgomery and Swanson in support of it. The Hon. J, Halt,, referring to Sir O. Grey 's speech, eaM that every statement made by him could easify bo refuted, but the hon. gentleman’s statements were so notorious that it was really not worth while replying to them. The Nelson men, he admitted, had fought a sturdy battle. What course they would take in the future he knew not. He had found his task a most unpalatable one, but ho had been bound to act towards Nelson as he had done, even it they lost valued political support by it. He denied that the prosperity and population of the South were due to the public works expenditure, and he did not not believe the Bill would increase the power of the wealthy. Cutting up the city electorates into wards would greatly lessen the cost and trouble of elections. He scouted the idea that the Bill would tend to produce either separation or a change of the seat of Government. To have longer delayed a fair readjustment would have had a more dangerous tendency in that direction. Ho quite admitted the bright prospects of the North Island, and in 1887, if he had any say in the matter, ho would be prepared most fully to recognise its rights, and to give it increased representation if it were entitled to it. He impressed upon the people the necessity of electing men of character and position rather than those pledged to a particular cry, or leader, or party. The country would hail the passage of the Bill with a sigh of relief, and it would have an important effect on the political progress and material welfare of the colony. The House divided on the motion that the Bill do now pass.—Ayes, 33 ; noes, 8. After some discussion on the title of the Bill, it was carried by 32 to 9 at 4.10 a m. The House adjourned until 7.30 p.m. today.