THE "STONE WALL."

Globe, Volume XXIII, Issue 2313, 2 September 1881, Page 3

THE "STONE WALL."

The following remarks by the Premier in reply to Sir G. Grey's speech on Tuesday night are taken from the "New Zealand Times," and at the present moment are worthy of careful perusal:— Mr Hall said—l am precluded by the form of the discussion from referring to the Representation Bill, for which I am very sorry, because I should have liked to have shown how very unreasonable the Opposition on the present occasion has been. I should like to have recalled to the attention of hon. members how patiently the arguments upon the whole subject were listened to and considered before we entered upon this deplorable contest, but all that must now be taken for granted, and will be so taken, I believe, by the majority of the House. The question now is a much larger and more important one. It is whether, when a serious difference of opinion arises between the minority and the majority in this House, and when it is found that that difference cannot bo reconciled by patient and protracted argument, whether the opinion of the minority is then to prevail or that of the majority. That is the issue at which we have now arrived. [Hear, hear.] Mr Seddon—Put it to the people. Mr Hall—The hon. gentleman induces me to say that the question now to be settled is whether the majority in this House is to be forced to give in to a small minority of headstrong men wbo make an unscrupulous use of the forms of the House. [Applause and cries of "No, no."] Mr Seddon—That is a word, Sir, which I submit shrold not be used here.

Mr Speaker—What was the word ? Mr Seddon—An " unscrupulous " use of the forms of the House.

Mr Speaker—l wish that no stronger words were ever used by hon. members. Mr Hall—l say, sir, that the question raised, and which wo have now to deoide, is whether a minority, by perseveringly abusing the forms of the House by putting those forms to a use for which they were never intended, shall either impose its will upon the majority, or shall paralyse the action of Parliament. [Hear, hear.] That is a question to which there can be no answer certainly from the Government, I am confident, or from the House, and undoubtedly not from the country. [Applause.] Mr Seddon—Try it. Mr Hall—We as a Government should be untrue to the high and important trust committed to us if we did not maintain at all hazards and at any inconvenience, the great fundamental principles upon whioh the system of representative institutions rest, namely, that the will of the majority must, and shall prevail. [Applause.] That is a principle, to abandon which would be to sap the very foundations of our institutions, Mr Seddon—The cloture.

Mr Hall—Although 1 cannot refer to any proceedings on the Representation Bill upon the present question of adjournment, I may say that we have now had introduced a form of discussion to wbioh the House has hitherto been a stranger. We have not merely had an indefinitely protracted discussion upon the principles of the Bill which is in question, but by motions for adjournment as soon as the House meets we have praotically come to this, that no business whatever can be proceeded with, everything being brought to a standstill; and this has come not from hon. gentlemen with whom we may sympathise, though we cannot agree with them—the members for the Nelson distriot—but this hitherto unknown mode of obstruction was intrcdnced by the hon. member for Auokland City East, who iias nothing whatever to do with this matter.

Mr Speight—Ab much as anybody else. Mr Hall—As I have said, one might sympathise, if not agree, with hon. members whose district is to suffer a deprivation of political power, but the hon. member for Auckland City East is not at all in that position. It is not proposed that his district shall be affected. Day after day the bueinesß of Parliament has been brought to a standstill by this abuse of the motion for adjournment, and this is done when the House has been nearly three months in session, and when we have on the Order Paper a largo mass of legislation which the country Is anxiously waiting for, and which is of itself of great importance. For three days we have had to Bubmit to this obstruction, and there is no indication whatever that those who have been engaged in it do not intend to continue it as long as they possibly can. [Applause.]] I say that this is the most grievous, the most soandalous abuse of the forms of the House that I have ever witnessed. It is a state of things that no other deliberative body in the oolony, whether Borough Council, Road Board, or County Council would ever allow itself to be brought to. These taotics cannot succeed. [Applauso.] Every day that those who are so abusing the forms of the House detain us here, they are increasing the anger with which the greater part of the country is regarding them and their proceedings. [Applause, and cries of " No, no."j It is my duty to try to gauge public opinion, and it is my conviction that what I have just said is a statement of fact. Every day that this obstruction is continued must make more impossible anything like concession. Such concession as might possibly have been made out of regard for the peouliar nature of the case, it is impossible should now be made in the face of proceedings of such a kind as we have witnessed. It is said that we have proposed a compromise. I say that the Government have proposed no compromise and will make none. The Government will lay aside all other business. They will not go on with anything else until the Representation Bill, has been dealt with by the House. [Appla jse.] I speak with no unfriendly feeling towards the Nelson members. They know that I appreciate highly the support they have given the Government. They know, too, that if consistently with what I feel to be my duty I oould have proposed any other arrangement than that which is proposed in the Bill I would have done so. But a sense of duty has compelled the Government to propose certain arrangements, and our sense of duty will compel us to adhere to them until the Bill has beoome law. [Applause.] So much for the Government and its intentions. I trust that the House will accord to the minority its fair and full rights. I have been too often a member of a minority not to be sensitive on that point. Were it possible that the minority in this Hous3 represented a majority in the country, obstruction might, to some extent, be justified, but that is not by any means the case in the present instance. When a minority is taken by surprise, then, to a considerable extent, opposition may be justified, but in the present instance there has been nothing of the kind. There has been nothing but a determination by sheer physical endurance to force the will of the minority upon the majority. That is a thing to whioh we cannot submit, but I trust the House will make the fullest allowance for the minority. If this fails, and if patienoe fails, as we are ! told it will, then I say that the House will not allow itself to be set at defiance—[hear, hear] —nor will it allow itself to be made what I fear it is beooming, the laughing-stock of New Zealand. The House will in such case assert its paramount authority to regulate its own proceedings, so that the majority shall rule and the public business of New Zealand be proceeded with. [Applause.] WEDNESDAY NIGHT'S PROCEEDINGS. WELLINGTON, September 1. The stonewall was kept up all last night by Mr Sheehan, Mr Lundon, Mr Beeves, Mr Shephard, and Mr Taiaroa, the last named talking against time, moving that the chairman leave the chair, and obstructing the business just like a European stonewaller. The talking was miserable stuff, and the whole affair was thoroughly degrading, every spark of genuine spirit having departed, and all the more responsible participators in it being heartily ashamed of it, though they doggedly hold together. Sir George Grey is now the prime mover in the business. About halfpast two this morning there were two sharp snooks of earthquake which made the House crack and tremble in a very alarming fashion. There was a stampede of members from the middle of the House where they were in no slight danger from the heavy plate glass in the lantern. Mr Beeves was talking at the time, and he bolted to the far corner of the House, amid laughter and cries of " Don't run away." As soon as the tremor ceased he returned, and made use of the earthquake for a little variety in the oourse of his speech. Mr Seymour was relieved in the chair by Mr Bryoe at three o'clook, and Mr Beeves began to adopt an offensive tone to the acting chairman. Mr Bryoe let him plainly know he would stand no nonsense however, and insisted on a much stricter observance of the

rules of debate than Mr Seymour had required. About six o'clock Mr Bryce was replaced by Mr Hamlin, and Mr Beeves then broke all bounds, and made a very gross attack on the aoting chairman, declaring that be was a partisan, and that he had only taken the chair to put down the Opposition, with a great deal more in the same strain, alternating with satirical compliments and small wit of a very poor order. Mr Hamlin bore it all wonderfully well, and succeeded by great firmness in repressing his assailant, the oommittee warmly supporting him. Mr Sbeehan endeavoured to dispute Mr Hamlin's rulings, and to support Mr Reeves, but Mr Hamlin was quite resolute, and put them both down without resorting to any unusual means of keeping order. Mr Hamlin is not a member of the Government party, and his impartiality is beyond suspicion, but Mr Beeves seemed determined to pick a quarrel with him. The Government easily kept a house all night, though Mr Sheehan tried every dodge to count cut or weary the members out by incessant divisions, and bv forcing every member to piss between the tellers, instead of the names being taken while they sat or lay in their places. Thenumbors all night were 22 against 4, with a variation of one or two occasionally when some member was out at supper. The twenty-two Government members who did night duty were released at eight o'clock this morning, after being in attendance eighteen hours. The sides are becoming more clearly defined on the issue of the stonewall, many members who at first opposed the Bill and sympathised more or less with the obstructionists, having now gone dead against them, and joined cordially with the Government to push the Bill through at all hazards. There is not now a single Otago or Canterbury member supporting the stonewall, which is really confined to about twenty membors. Even these few are not in harmony, but at loggerheads among themselves on many points, and openly avow that they are working for euite different objects. Sir George Grey's sole aim seems to be to foment as much mischief as possible, and plunge public affairs in confusion. The Northern stonewallers do his bidding, besides having their own personal ends to serve, while the Nolaon men are merely standing out to please their constituents. They know they cannot gain anything, and some of the better men among them are disgusted by the false position they find themselves in. YESTEBDAY'S SITTING. This morning Mr Macandrew made a very strong speech upon the shameful nature of the proceedings, which he condemned in unqualified terms. He is working heartily with the Government to resist coercion and to pass the Bill, and there is an excellent understanding between the Canterbury and Otago members. Sir George Grey has put it about that he is going South to-morrow to address public meetings in the Middle Island in opposition to the Bill, but I doubt if there is any truth in it. Suoh a soandalous impropriety would be so manifestly impolitic that he is not likely to do more than threaten it, with a view to intimidating the weaker vessels among the supporters of the Bill. The Southern members all say that they don't care a fig for anything Sir George Grey may do, and that they are not going to be bounoed by him or anybody else. The flood of drivel has gone on uninterruptedly all day. Mr Seymour, on resuming the chair, having somewhat eased the task of the stonewallers by ruling that they might read extracts not striotly relevant to the question, Mr Seddon read the Hokitika electoral roll for more than an hour. The Government will probably take no active steps to suppress obstruction before the end of this week, depending on the growth of public opinion to support them in any action that may be deemed advisable after that. The worst effect of the delay is that all local Bills and private business are sacrificed, and all committee work, including some of great importance, is at a standstill. Things oame to a olimax about four o'clock, when Mr Tomoana, the Maori member for the Eastern district, asked the Chairman whether it would be in order for him to sing a song about Sir George Grey. Colonel Trimble, who was aoting chairman at the time, rose and made a statement to the Oommittee on the proceedings generally. He ruled that Mr Tomoana would be out of order in singing a song in the House, but not more out of order than members who hadjboen obstructing public business during the last twelve hours. The conduct of those members had reduced the proceedings to a farce. He was satisfied that wilful obstruction of the business was an abuse of the Standing Orders, and therefore a contempt of the House. He read extracts and precedents in support of this contention, and ended by urging members to have a regard for the dignity of the House, and to adhere to the preprieties of debate. After this the stonewallers became more discourteous in their behavior, but persisted in their obstruction, Mr Collins deolaring that they would never give in.

LAST WIGHT. This evening Mr Hursthouse concluded a two hours' speeoh by saying that the Nelson men would agree to Canterbury and Otago getting their increased representation, if that of Nelson were decreased gradually. They were prepared to suffer some diminution, but not all at once. Sir George Grey then carried on the stonewall, but before he had spoken half an hour the House thinned so much that there was no quorum present, and the bell had to be rung to make a House. The Nelson men left the House when Sir G. Grey rose, and did not return when the bell rang, evidently not wishing to be identified with him ha any way. They utterly disclaim his leadership, and dissent from his views on representation. Sir George Grey ooncluded his speech by oharging the Chairman of Committees with "gross tyranny," because he insisted on his observing the rules of debate. The Chairman severely rebuked him for using such language. Mr Swanson, the member for Newton, who is essentially a working men's representative, replied to Sir G. Grey, and gave him, perhaps, the severest dressing down that he ever received, declaring that his pretended advocacy of the poor was nothing but " bunkum," and that he had betrayed the people who had returned him and his followers to the House. He thoroughly exposed all the hollowness of Sir G. Grey's professions, and showed bow completely he had deoeived the people. Mr Swanson is a very influential man in Auckland from his intimate relations with the working-classes, and he had a great deal to do with returning the Greyite members at the last elections, and his speech to-night was a pregnant sign of the extent to which Sir G. Grey has forfeited confidence. Sir George replied by a very coarse attack on Mr Swanson, whom he described as a man ho would not act with in public affairs. This statement was received with loud cries of "Oh, oh" from all parts of the House, beoause there is no man whose company Sir G. Grey has more courted in public affairs than Mr Swanson. The debate has been very animated and interesting so far to-night, but the dismal talking against time is to go on after the adjournment.