PARLIAMENTARY.

Globe, Volume XXIII, Issue 2303, 20 August 1881, Page 3

PARLIAMENTARY.

[PEESB ASSOCIATION TBLEGBAM.] LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Thursday, August 18. EVENING SITTING. In the Legislative Council this evening the Lisensing Bill was further amended in committee, and notico given for its further recommittal. The Council's amendments in the Gaming and Lotteries Bill were insisted on, and managers appointed to draw up reasons. Tho Fisheries Bill passed through csmmittee with numerous omendments. Fbiday, August 19. Tho Council met at 2.30 p.m. The Hon. J. B. Acland was givon loavo for ton days from August 25th on urgent private affairs. On tho Hon. G. M. Watebhouse'S motion, the Standing Orders Committee wa3 directed to consider whothor the Hon. Captain Baillie is disqualified from sitting in tho Council through taking forage allowance. Tho Education Act, 1877, Amendment Bill, and tho Fisheries Bill were read a third time. Tho second reading of tho Timaru Harbor Board Endowment Bill was moved by the Hon. N. Wilson. Several Councillors spoke strongly against tho Bill on tho ground that tho Timaru harbor is certain to fill with shingle, as predicted by Sir J. Coode and two Government engineers, and which is now happening. On the Hon. F. Whitaeee's motion the debate was adjourned. The Council adjourned from 5 to 7.30. EVENING SITTING. Tho Council resumed at 7 30. The Hororata Water Kace, Parliamentary Oaths, Pensions, and Kakanui Harbor Board Bills (all from the Lower House), were read a first time. Tho Dentist Act (1880) Amendment, Otago University Beserve Vesting, and Oamaru Harbor Bills were passed through committee, with amendments. Tho Auckland Beserve Exchange and Change of Trust Bill was read a second time. Other business was adjourned, and the Council rose at 9.30. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Thubbday, August 18. EVENING SITTING. GOLD DUTY ABOLITION BILL, The motion for going into committee on the Gold Duty Abolition Bill was agreed to. In committee, Mr Sbddon, who was in charge of the Bill, moved the amendment as agreed to by the gold fields committee — " Thot the duty should altogether cease from the Ist January, 1883 (it being reduced in the meantime as proposed in the original Bill)." After considerable discussion, tho motion to report progress was lest by 28 to 15. Mr Reeves moved as an amendment—- " That the duty cease from the Ist January, 1E82."

On division, Mr Seddon's proposal for 1883 was carried by 26 to 10. Mr Shebhan proposed a new clause, leaving the abolition optional to local bodies. This clause was carried by 22 to 18, and it was added to the Bill on divisoin by 32 to 8. The Bill was then reported with amendments, and at 3.20 a.m. the House adjourned until 7.30 in tho evening. Fbiday, August 19. The House mot at 7.30 p.m. PfIIVILBGE.

Mr Pxkb rose to a question of privilege. Ho wanted to know whether the Speaker had power to alter a notice of motion given by a member. On one occasion he said a notice of his had been suppressed altogether; then again at yesterday's sitting he gave notiee to the effect that the Parliament should be prorogued, so as to allow the Governor to visit the Western Paoific and members to recruit their wasted energies, bodily as well as men tally. Ho had called on the Speaker in his chambers, and the Speaker had told him that ho would not allow the motion to appear on the order paper as given. He now complained of the manner in which it appeared. He was aware that there was a precedent in tho House of Commons for what he had done, but he oontended—

The Spbakeb interrupted the hon. member, saying he fully understood the point at issue, and wag prepared to meet it. The first motion to whioh Mr Pyke referred appeared to him to be wholly irregular and intended as a burlesque, and as to the other he looked upon it as couched in improper terms, and it brought the Governor's name into question. It was for these reasons that he had acted on both occasions as he had done.

Mr Pykb was about to speak, when The Speakeb said he had disposed of the question of privilege as stated, and he would hoar no more on the subject. Mr PrKa still persisted in speaking. The Speaker—l have already informed the hon. member that the question has been disposed of, and that I will hear nothing further on tho subject. Mr Pyke—l claim my right to Bpeak. The Speakeb— Sit down. I have told you to sit down.

Mr Pykb—Then am I to understand you refuse to allow me to address the House as a representative of the people ? The Speakbb--I have already told you to sit down, and I muat appeal to the House to support my authority and enforce obedience. The Sergeant-at-Arms will attend to receive instructions.

Mr Pyke—But, sir, I ineiet upon my right to spoak as a representative of tho people. The fi-'PEAKEB-Kcep silonce, sir; I will hear no more. I am only waiting for a formal motion being made to deal with this matter. Mr Pyke still persisted in addressing the House, when The Hon. J. Hall said it was his painful duty to move—" That tho hon. gentleman, having veiatiously interrupted the orderly conduct of the business of this House, has been guilty of contempt of this House." It was not the first time that tho hon. member had interrupted the proceedings and refused to obey tho chair. Thoy had seen the Speaker's authority openly and persistently disregarded. It would be his duty to move this resolution unless tho Speaker thought a milder step would most the exigencies of the case. He repeated, however, that it was absolutely necessary that tho authority of the Chair should be asserted.

The Speaker that he would afford Mr j Pyke an opportunity for tabling a motion to bring his conduct in this matter under the consideration of the House. If he (Mr Pyke) would bo satisfied with that course, and submit to the authority of the House, then he would allow the motion read by the Premier to be put. That was the only concession he would make, and if the hon. member would not recognise the authority of tho Chair on that condition, then ho would proceed to put the motion, Bud deal with the refractory member accordingly. Mr Pyke intimated that he would accept the conditions offered, and tho motion waß not put. At a later stago of tho sitting, Mr Pyke gave notice that he would move that day eight days that it was ultra vires of the Speaker of that House to omit or mutilate any motion tabled for tho consideration of tho House, unless tho samo bo of an improper naturo.

Tho Speaker—l would prefer that this should come on for consideration at un earlier date than this day eight daya ; that it should come on on Monday. Mr Pyke—Very well, on Monday. NEW PLYMOUTH HAEBOB WOBKS.

Tho Houbo then proceeded to the consideration of the report of the select committee on tho Now Plymouth harb.'/r works. Mr WiiianT said hio attention had beon directed to the magnitude of these works by reading a report by Sir J. Coode recently published, after being two years in official pigeon-holes. Tho two ideas on which the work seemed to have been sanctioned were (hat it was a colonial necessity to build a harbor of refuge there, and that tho colonial penal establishment Bhould bo there. The ovidenoo and Si- J. Coode's report showed that a harbor of refuge was not wanted there, and if tho works wero even comploted it would only be useful for small coasting steamers. K-.TS-hia Harbor, within oixty miles of Now Plymouth, had all tho natural advantages of a harbor for shelter, and there oould bo'no doubt but that in the present aspect of the Maori difficulty tho harbor in question would soon bo available as a harbor of refuge. Tho penal establishment view of the question was disposed by the settlers themselves, and he wont on to point out that the settlers had not asserted their views on that point until after the landed endowments and borrowing powers had been secured. He next alluded to the £200,000. The chairman of

the Harbor Board frankly admitted that this was cot looked upon by the settlers as the beginning and end of the expenditure on the work. Keferrinjj to the poouniary profit to be derivoa Dy tne settlers themselves by the work, ho showed that the direct saving would only be 2s per ton on goods landed. That was all they got in exchange for the tax of Is per £ imposed for the work. The expenditure on plant and works not forming part of the breakwater itself amounted to the enormous sum of £70,000, whereas the plant for similar works at Oamaru did not exceed £6OOO and that at Timaru £9OOO. Ho had no desire to see the twenty-five per cent, of the land fund taken away from Taranaki, but he conaidercd it might bo spent to better advantage than on this work. The task he had undertaken was a most unpleasant one; still it was a duty they owed to the color.y to put a stop to reckless and unproductive expenditure, whether it was by the Government or any local body. He moved that the report be adopted, and that the Government be requested to bring a Bill this session to give effect to the recommendation.

Mr Kelly contended that tho whole proceeding bore on the faoe of it not only a want of inquiry, but also to some extent a predisposition to the result arrived at. Kawhia had been alluded to as a harbor of refuge. Tho fact was it was a bar harbor, and could not <n bad weather be approached at all, and tho Natives would not allow a vessel to enter it. Then again, the country between Now Plymouth and Kawhia was utterly impraot icable, so that tho latter could not possibly bo of any service to Taranaki. Ho denied that tho people of New Plymouth had prevented the establishment of a penal establishment. It was stopped by a resolution of that House, to tho disappointment of New Plymouth. Even although a few thousand pounds had been misspent on the work that was no evidence on which to found a charge of malfeasance. They knew that Ministers and engineers and various local bodies had from time to time wasted thousands of pounds in this way, and yet nothing was said. He complained that the committee had acted unfairly, and that they had not givon a proper consideration in connection with its proceedings. It was only tho other day that a large landed endowment had been granted to Timaru, and he asked why it was purposed to deal with New Plymouth in the exceptional manner proposed by tho report. He argued upon the importanoo of maintaining good faith with the various parts of the colony, and yet this report proposed a direct breach of faith with an important part of the colony.

The Hon. J. Hall said the motion was one of importance, as forming a precedent. The whole question had been fully considered year after year by the House before the determination to perform the work referred to had been arrived at. He did not mean to say that if it could be shown that tho expenditure was inoperative it would not be right for Parliament to reconsider the question. When such interference was made it ought only to be done in extreao cases, and when it was shown that interference was absolutely necessary. Had that been shown ? It was true that the matter had been investigated by a committee of gentlemen in whom he had perfeot confidence. They, however, had not had time to give the matter full and fair consideration. They should have visited the harbor itself, so as to make themselves personally acquainted with the work. He thought no full and exhaustive inquiry such as would warrant them to take the serious step proposed—a Btop which would look to many like repudiation—had been made. He thought, however, enough had been shown to warrant the House stepping in and putting a stop to any further expenditure until a more complete enquiry had been made. He wculd suggest that an Act should be passed authorising the gentlemen named to make a full and exhaustive enquiry on the ground, pending which the further prosecution of the works should be stopped. He believed a step of that kind would be aoquiesced in by the country, and he moved, as an amendment

" That this House is of opinion that the Government should at onoe bring in a Bill to appoint a Parliamentary Commission to enquire into and report on the New Plymouth harbor scheme (a) as to its suitability and praotibility, (b) as to its financial position and prospects ; (c) as to tho fairness of rating, equally or otherwise, all land inoluded in the present rating district; the commission to have full power to slop all expenditure on the present harbor works." Mr Fulton controverted tho statement made by Mr Kelly that he had been dealt with unfairly by the committee. He reminded that gentleman that he had been requested by the committee to furnish all the evidence and information forthcoming, so as to enable tho committee to arrive at a correct estimate of the case. The committee had gone about the inquiry wholly unprejudiced, and with no feeling but a sincere desire to see the public funds honestly and fairly disbursed. The point on which the committee was most unanimous was that the expenditure should be stopped at once. The proposal of the Premier was bad, unless the preoaution was taken at once to prevent the Harbor Board entering into contracts, or doing any other thing calculated to commit the colony to the prosecution of the work. If Mr Kelly was the best advocate the Board had to put forward, his arguments were calculated to show them the justice of the report of the committee. The Hon. J. Hail said that he had intended it to be understood that the works Bhould be stopped at once, pending the result of the inquiry.

Sir Or. G-bet counselled them to act in the matter with prudence and justice. On the faith of this work large numbers of men with families had gone to the place and acquired legitimate interest in it. He hoped the interests of these parties would be looked at, and ucdor these circumstances he counselled them to adopt the course suggested by the amendment. He was anxious that that should bo done. He believed that the area of rating had been made unfairly largo, and that was an additional reason why the course suggested by the amendment should be followed.

Sir W. 3Tox considered the remarks of the previous speaker as fair and considerate, and would be prepared to follow the suggestion made. He thought there ought to be a further and local inquiry, Buoh as that proposed in the amendment. Sufficient time had not been allowed the committee to oarefully inquire into all the facts of the case. The first mistake made by the Board wub that they committed themselves to a person as engineer who was wholly untried, and who knew nothing whatever about such work. In all future undertakings of this nature he hoped the Government would take cognizanoe of the character and antecedents of the men to whom the execution of such works were entrusted. Certainly no such body as the Taranaki Harbor Board could be further trusted. The engineer's correspondence with Sir John Ooode showed great presumption. Speaking from a lengthened experience in the neighborhood of oountry districts, he knew that tho feeling was against the execution of such works, and that the money would be better expended in opening up the interior of the country. BDT/CATION ACT AMENDMENT BILIi. The Education Act Amendment Bill was received by message from the Legislative Council. On the question that it bo read a first time, tho voioes were given in the negative. Mr Ttjehbtjxli protested against the injustice of killing a measure of this kind without allowing its purpose to bo made known. Ho would ask for leave to introduce a meaßure of tho some kind, to allow Bible reading in schools en tlu very first opportunity. Tho Hon. J. Hall also complained of the uncaronionious manner in whioh the Bill had bocn thrown out. He said that they were bound to give the same consideration to a mensuro passed by the other Chamber which they expected that Chamber to give to any measure passod by them. Mr Sbddon blamed the Government for not having explained tho real naturo of the Bill.

Tho Hon. J. Hail said ho did not, when ho moved its first reading, know the real object of tho Bill. Mr Fulton said he was to blame, as he had intended to move that motion, but was detained outside the Chamber longer than was expected. Mr Hamlin quite understood what was being done when they gave their voices against the motion, and he hoped they would not recant. Mr Shebhan said he believed that there had boen a mistake, still it would only bo protracting the Bill's existence for a very short time, as he knew that it could not possibly pass. Ho knew that a Bill of this kind would give offenco to a largo section of the community. In consideration of the respect due fco the Uppor House, he thought they might have passed it, but he know it would bo

■imply prolonging its existence for a very short time.

Mr Speight protested against the Bill being introduced, alleging that it would onlj be wasting the time of the House to put it on the order papers at all. Mr Kbixy, although determinedly oppoeod to tho principle of the Bill, thought it should receive some consideration as a measure from the Upper House. Mr Babbon thought that they were quite prepared to deal with the Bill, and go to a division at once. In that case it would be wrong to waste valuable time Mr Fulton gave notice that ho would move the first reading of the Bill on Tuesday. NEW PLYMOUTH HABBOB WOEKS. The debate on the New Plymouth Harbor Board was resumed by Mr Ballakce, who said that he did not think this report should end the matter. Further enquiry was demanded. Ho was not sure but that a harbor could be made at Now Plymouth. Ho bolioved the proposal for a commission would receive the support of the House. Mr EICHABDSON considered that the committee made out a good prima facie case for tho recommendation they have made. Ha thought if the Government proposal was adopted, full powers should bo given to stop the work in tho meantime, ar.d he could not see that any injury would thereby result to the work itself.

Mr Gisbobne suggested that the Bill should provide that no further expenditure should take place until after tho report of the commission had been considered by Parliament.

Mr Sheehan characterised the roport as being one of the most complete and exhaustive ever placed on that table, and no recommendation could bo more warranted by the evidence. Captain Fairohild, for example, one of the witnesses, was most competent to speak on the point, and he would believe him almost before any man on such a subject. They had been asked to consider tho effect this recommendation would have upon the people of Taranaki. He would ask them to consider the effect this useless work would have on the people of this colony, whose interests wore languishing for want of money, whilo it was being thrown away on this useless work. He would be disposed to stop tho work at once, but looking at the fact that the House had from time to time encouraged tho carrying on of the work, he was disposed to agree to the opinion that they should come to some compromise. He would therefore say, let the inhabitants of the district have an opportunity of showing that the work should be prosecuted. In the meantime he would suggest that, as it were, an injunction should be granted, and no further work done or money expended until the whole thing had been fully considered. They could not guarantee that the Bill proposed would pass the Upper House. What, under the circumstances, he would suggest was that the debate be adjourned till this night week. In the meantime Government could bring in an urgent Bill, and if it passed the Upper House then this motion could be discharged. If not, they could deal further with the report. The report of the Commission tabled, however, would have to be subject to the review of Parliament before any further expenditure was agreed to. Mr Babbon hoped the recommendation of the committee would be agreed to, and that no commission would be appointed. The Hon. J. Hall Baid he would agree to the proposal that no further expenditure Bhould be incurred until the report of the commission had been considered by Parliament. He would not agree to the proposed adjournment, as he had every confidence that the Bill he proposed would pass through both branches of the Legislature. Mr Weston defended the committee against any imputation of partiality, and Mr Montgom eby spoke in support of the amendment by the Premier.

Mr I/BVESTAir would not consent to the proposed commission until he knew who would compose it. Col. Trimblb blamed Parliament for having passed the Bill authorising the work in 1877, in the face of a remonstrance signed by 800 settlers and now proposing to stop operations suddenly to the great detriment of the place. He believed the district would oonßider the proposal of the Government for the appointment of a commission to slop the work if they saw fit It was a fair thing, he'c&stended, that they ought to consult the feelings of the distriot, having allowed the expenditure to go on for four years without the slightest intimation of any stoppage such as has had been proposed. His own belief was that the work once stopped would never go on. Still they ought to convince the people. Mr Sbddon supported the appointment of a commission, if absolute power to settle the whole question was given it. Mr Lundon supported the Taranaki Harbor scheme as a colonial work which should be carried out.

The original motion was then put and negatived. The Premier's amendment having become the substantive motion, Mr Db Latjtoub moved the omission of the last paragraph, and the substitution of the words " the Bill to provide for the cessation of all expenditure until the report Bhall have been considered and ordered upon by the House, except such expenditure as may be necessary to preserve the works from injury, and pressrve the material belonging to the Board, such expenditure to bo administered by the Government, and defrayed out of the funds belonging to tbe Board ; the Government and the Chairman of the Committee to be agreed on this." Mr Kelly and Mr Sbddon and Colonel Tbimble protosted against this alteration. After some further discussion, tbe Hon. J. Hall's motion, as amended by Mr DeLautour, was agreed to, and the House rose at 1.30.