PARLIAMENTARY.

Globe, Volume XXIII, Issue 2295, 11 August 1881, Page 3

PARLIAMENTARY.

[PBBBS ASSOCIATION TELEGRAMS.] LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Wednesday, August 10. Beplying to the Hon. Colonel Brett, The Hon. F. Whitakbb said that Government had no knowledge whatever as to the proceedings re Sergeant Provo at Dunedin, In reply to the Hon. W. Bobinson, The Hon. E. Whitakbb said he had no knowledge respecting the arrival and nonquarantining of the Wakatipu at Wellington that day. The Medical Practitioners Society Bill and the Parliamentary Privileges Bill were read a third time and passed. Several unimportant Bills were passed through committee, and the remainder of the sitting till 5 p.m, when the Council rose, was occupied in debating the second reading of the Auckland Beserves Exchange and Change of Trust Bill, the debate being adjourned. HOUSE OE BEPBBSBNTATIVES. Wednesday, August 10. The House met at 2 80 p.m. petition. Mr Tohoana presented petitions from Natives praying that the Crown and Native Lands Taxing Bills be not passed. THE QUARANTINE BEGULATIONS, Beplying to a question put by Mr Hutchison without notice. The Bon. T. Dick said tnat the reason why the Wakatipu from Sydney had come alongside the wharf was that the health officer must have been satisfied that all the men and passengers had been recently vaccinated, and could not tram mi t the infection. Any one not so vaccinated would be removed at once to Quarantine Island. Mr Gbobgb asked if the mails had been fumigated. The Hon, W. Johnston replied that notice should be given of the question. Mr Andrews protested against a curt and evasive reply on so important a matter, and ta allow the House an opportunity of discussing it, he moved that the House do adjourn. Mr Gbobgb urged that the precautions taken against the introduction of smallpox were not sufficient. The seeds of smallpox might be amongst the cargo, and thereby distributed all over the colony. The regulations by which the vessel was allowed to come to the wharf had only been issued the previous day, apparently owing to some strong local influence, and he questioned very much if they were effective. Mr McLean said that the vessel had secured a clean bill of health before leaving Sydney. No other colony had taken the same amount of alarm as New Zealand, or insisted on quarantining Sydney vessels. The fact was that they had smallpox at Port Chalmers, and in what state would they have been placed had other colonies taken the same course as New Zealand, He also stated that every possible precaution had been taken by the Union Company, as well as the authorities at Sydney, to guard against the spread of the disease.

Mr Hubst complained that the restrictions should have been released in Wellington and yet retained in the more northern ports. The Hon. J. Hall said that it was quite reasonable that Government should ask time to answer the question put by Mr George. They were not on board, and before they could say whether the mails were or were not fumigated, they must obtain a report. The new regulations had been framed under the advice of the beat available medical authorities.

Mr Ma Candbbw said that this was a most unnecessary scare, and that the sooner the smallpox and every other disease was acclimatised amongst them the better. All these quarantine regulations created a worse evil than could be created by the presence of the disease.

Mr Hutchison complained that more publicity should have been given to the alteration in the regulations, and that he, as Mayor, should have been consulted.

Colonel Tbimble said that experience had shown that countries where these regulations were most stringent, were the very places where the disease prevailed most. Imagination had a great deal to do with the propagation of the disease. It was necessary that Government should understand that there were members who entertained just as strong views on that side as those who entertained views on the other side of the question. Mr MoCaughan said that after the way in which the disease had spread from Sydney to Brisbane, it was an outrage for the Government to relax the regulations.

Mr Pykb spoke in favor of the vessel being ordered into quarantine until it was placed beyond all doubt that disease did not exist. Mr Bowen reminded them that ships were arriving regularly from London and other parts of Great Britain, where the disease existed and bad all along existed. Mr Reeves replied that a four months’ voyage was sufficient for eradicating any seeds of the disease. At the same time he did not altogether concur in the alarm which had from time to time arisen on this subject. Bir G. Obey said that the idea suggested to his mind was that there had been certain quarantine regulations in force, and that those had been broken.

Mr McLean said the health officer had

visited the vessel early that morning, and that some fifty of the crew and passengers had been vaccinated. To remove any misapprehension on the point he had to inform the House that he knew nothing whatever about the quarantine regulations alluded to until ho saw them in print. He was in no way instrumental in getting them framed, or any alteration made from the previous regulations. The motion for the adjournment was withdrawn. QUESTIONS. Beplying to Mr Reeves, The Hon. W. Rolleston said it was not true that after the estimates were passed last session many sergeants and constables were reduced in rank and sixpence per day taken off their pay, besides the 10 per cent, reduction. Replying to Mr Gisborne, The Hon. T. Dick said that a sum of £SO had been placed on the supplementary estimates as compensation to James Johnston, who prayed for redress in case of an alleged miscarriage of justice. Replying to Mr McDonald, The Hon. Major Ateinbon said that the allegation that £IOB7 had been paid to a contractor by the Cook County Council above what he was entitled to, was a subject that Government had nothing to do with.

Replying to Mr J. B. Fisher, Xho Hon. Major Atkinson said that in consequence of irregularity in postal communication, landowners in some instances bad

not received proper notice of the sitting of Appeal Courts under the Property Assesement Act, but it was understood that the shortcoming had been specially provided for. Any particular case of hardship not so pro- ! vided for, if mentioned, would bo attended to. ) Eeplying to Mr Oolbeck, The Hon. Major Atkinson said that Government bad under consideration the propriety of granting licenses, instead of leases, to dig for kauri gum, and the result would be communicated before the end of the session. Eeplying to Mr Hutchison, The H°n. T. Dick said that Government was aware that a fine of £2O had been inflicted by the Wellington Court for selling r. hare without a license. They considered the fine out of all proportion to the magnitude of the offence, and steps had been taken to amend the law thereanent.

Eeplying to Mr Sheehan, The Hon. T. Dick said that the 10 per cent, reduction had been refunded to Judge Harvey, and, on the representation of Judge Weston that he was equally entitled to the refund, Government Jaad acceded to the request. The refund was made since papers on the subject had been laid on the table. Eeplying to Mr Pyke, The Hon. T. Dick said he was bound to admit that neglected and criminal children had been indiscriminately committed to the same industrial school, and he could not see that the matter could be remedied, for the present at all events. NEW BILLS. The following Bills were introduced and read a first time; —Auctioneers, Appraisers, and Agents (Mr Levin), Protection of Crops (Mr Saunders). WEST COAST MAIL SBBTICH. Mr Qisboenb moved—“ That this House, on the following day, will go into Committee to address the Governor, praying his Excellency to cause to be placed on the supplementary estimates the sum of £IOOO for a mail steam service between Hokitika and Puseygur Point Lighthouse, so as to secure the periodical visits every six weeks of a small steamer at the ports on the west coast of the Middle Island." Carried. FINANCIAL PECPOBALS. Mr Safndbbb moved—“ That no financial proposals will be accepted if not based on the strict adaptation of the annual expenditure of the colony to its annual revenue without any assistance from borrowed money, and that do not aim at the complete separation of colonial and local finance, and the entire emancipation of the latter from the control or interference of this House." He argued that the various departments cost far too much. It appeared as if these departments were worked wholly according to a preconcerted scale of extravagance, as was the result of living on borrowed money, instead of living on legitimate sources of income. He also complained that the audit office appeared to be arranged for the express purpose of finding employment for a class of men otherwise useless, and whom it was desirable for the Government to get quietly out of the way. Instead of protecting the finances of the colony from abuse, it was found that every department actually contributed to the abuses. In token of that he recited in detail the circumstances under which Mr Gisborne had secured bis pension. He further argued that it would be well for the colony if this department waa swept away, root and branch. It would be far better to leave the whole thing in the hands of one honest man—not a man at £IOOO a year, as it was arranged in Wellington was necessary. The result of a man so paid was that he mixed in what Wellington called its good society, attended its balls and parties, and the result was that he was exposed to all the softening influences occasioned thereby. He believed that a great deal of abuse to the public purse had arisen out of this very fact. What they wanted was a hard-working, moderately-paid man, who was not at all likely to be exposed to such pernicious influences. They must come face the fact that it was imperative to spend only what they made, and to avoid dealing with borrowed money at all.

The Hon. Major Atkinson said that if the motion were carried it would not affect the finance, local or general, in any way. It was defective inasmuch as it failed in indicating any real practical aim. He disagreed in the opinion expressed that the colony was in a bad financial condition. The colony had baen greatly benefitted by the public work* «chcm«. The revenues of the colony, the rate cf wages, and also taxation showed that the present state of matters compared favorably with the state of things as they existed prior to 1870, the date from when the scheme was inaugurated. The facts should make memhers cautious in such wholesale denunciations of the scheme. He was also at issue with the previous speaker as to the true importance of borrowed money. Hoads and bridges must be made, and until they were made a proper state of development could not be promoted. He admitted that it was necessary that a careful estimate should be made of the works upon which borrowed money should be expended. It would be folly to attempt to do all necessary works out of the income proper, and he quite believed that the country wan with him on that point. He aJmiiieci that the audit department required reform, and that reform would shortly be proposed, but ho could not agree that it should be swept away. Ho far from pandering to individuals, the department was rather too independent in his opinion. He desired to see local and general finance separated as far as possible, but a complete separation was not possible. The power of the local bodies must, to a great extent, depend upon whst that House chase to fake for general purposes. Mr De Lautouk expressed sympathy with the motion, and, while he did not discountenance the system of borrowing as laid down by the previous speaker, he thought some restraint ought to be placed upon these borrowing schemes. They should, he thought, avoid further borrowing until it conld be shown that a substantial interest had been yielded from the works already constructed out of borrowed money. Mr Thomson briefly supported the motion, although ho did not by any means agree with all Mr Saunders had said.

The Hon. W. Rollkbton agreed with much that had been said by the mover re borrowing. The remedy he said was to people the waste places of the colony, and by doubling the population to make the burden more easy to be borne by the multitude. The time was coming when immigration would have to be revived. The debate was interrupted by the 5.30 adjournment. EVENING SITTING. The House resumed at 7.30. TARANAKI HAEBOE WOBEfI. Mr Weight brought up the report of the ommittee on the Taranaki harbor works. He moved that the consideration of the report be made an Order of the Day for Wednesday evening next. Mr Kelly complained of the unfair manner in which he had been treated by the committee. Before the report was made he applied to have a copy of the evidence for perusal. It was promised but not given to him. A proceeding of this kind was altogether unparalleled in the transactions of committee business in whatever respect. Tub conduct of the committee had been very wrong. The report itself was like a public worts statement, and it was impossible to follow it. He protested that the investigation had been unfair and that his constitnents and the Harbor Board had been most unfairly treated. In the Legislative Council it had been stated days ago that the report of the committee of that House was likely to be adverse to the Harbor Board. Colonel Tbimblb thought the time allowed for considering the report was inadequate. The evidence would not be before them till Tuesday. He would therefore ask for a few days longer. If they were going into the report at all, they should do so with their ayes open. Ha apprehended that they wanted to do justice. He would move that the time be Friday. Mr Mubbay suggested that the date should be made Monday week, and that in the meantime all expenditure on these works be stopped. The Hon. Major Atkinson agreed in the propriety of further time being given. Mr Weight said that Mr Kelly’s complaint about the evidence not being shown him was not well founded. The committee could not, without involving serious and unwarrantable delay, have supplied the evidence to Mr Kelly for perusal, but Mr Kelly had been allowed to give all the evidence he could. The report was ordered to be considered on Friday week. MISCELLANEOUS. Sir G. Obey moved “ That all the intervening orders of the day be postponed for enabling him to bring in a Law Practitioners’ Bill.”

The House divided—Ayes, 43 ; nors, 13. The Hon. W. Johnston, in reply to s que*-

tion put in the early part of the day, stated I that the mails per Wakatipu had been fumi- I gated. LAW PRACTITIONERS BILL. Sir Q. Grey moved—“ That the House go into Committee on the Law Practitioners Bill.” Mr Stewart said that if this Bill were passed incalculable injury would be done. Ho denied that the profession as it stood was a close one. Ha argued that they should go in quite ao opposite direction from that named by the Bill. Mr McDonald, in illustrating the high standing of the profession as it stood, instanced a case in Dunedin, in which one of the leading firms had a sum of £BOO struck off their bill of costs. Mr Oliver could not support the Bill. The admission in this colony was much easier than it was in many other countries. He warned them that if they adopted this Bill they would bitterly regret it. i&r Shbimski spoke of the bad taste displayed by Mr Stewart in being the first to raise his voioe against the passing of the Bill. They had heard a great deal about the respectability of the legal profession. He reminded them of how many had been struck off the rolls in New Zealand alone for malpractices. Mr Kelly supported the Bill. He said that the public interest was invariably the pry raised in cases of this kind. When hanging for trifling offences was done away with, society was cautioned that its best interests and safety would be endangered. There was no fear to be apprehended for the public ; they ware able to look out for themselves. They were told that the lawyers would be benefited by this Bill, and yet, strange to say, the only opposition came from lawyers. Colonel Trimble spoke against the Bill. He pointed out that at Home, notwithstanding a university education, it was found that a special training was necessary. Mr Whitaker said the question was one of public interest. To his mind it was un■workable, and in its present shape it would be soon repealed. His objection, however, ■was to the manner in which it was proposed to take the Bill into committee. He knew that there were members who had amendments to propose, and might not have expected it to be brought forward at this time. • ... Dr. Wallis pointed out that thirteen members had stood aside with Bills, in which they were interested, in order that this Bill might be brought in. That was all but unprecedented in that House, and showed the estimation in which the Bill was held. Sir G. Grey said that in committee, in deference to the opinions of the House, he would ask to introduce the words sons, although he believed that women would yet be enabled to take their place as practitioners at the bar. The effect of this measure would be to promote a learned race instead of a depressed one. Such men as reporters and others who could devote their evenings to learning would do so. Probably many would fail, but they would have all the advantages of their studies, instead of as was too much the case at present, spending their leisure time in questionable places and pursuits. Then again it would have the effect of freeing young men from the drudgery of the lawyer’s office. One great object of the present drudgery was that lawyers might have a good supply of cheap labor. The study of the law was better than any given amount of general education, so that the tendency of the Bill was to elevate the masses. America, where the principle of this Bill existed, had produced some of the greatest Judges who had arisen, and whose opinions were quoted all over the world. The opposition came from the lawyers simply because knew that some of the ablest men would be enabled to come to the front.

The motion for going into committee was carried on the voices. In committee, Sir G. Grey moved that the word “ male” be added, so as to confine admission alone to males.

Mr Oliver objected, stating that he did not see why females should be debarred. The question was put, that the clause stand as printed. Ayes, 25 ; noes, 21. Mr Stewart moved, as an amendment, that the words “examination in general knowledge ” bo inserted in clause 3. The House divided. Ayes, 24; noes, 25. Sir G. Grey moved, that the words be altered to read “ examination in law by any one o£ the judges of the said Court shall be entitled to enroll the candidate, &a.” Colonel Thimble moved to report progress, to obtain time to consider the fall effect of this. The amendment waa lost on the voices. Mr Stewart proposed, that the words “on payment of ordinary fees ” bo inserted. The question was put, that the words “ without fees ” stand. Ayes, 28; does, 13. Sir G. Grey’s amendment was put and carried on the voices, and the Bill reported with amendments, which were agreed to. Sir G. Grey moved the third reading, Mr Whitaker moved an amendment, that the Bill be re-committed on Wednesday next. The House divided and the amendment was negatived by 26 to 17, and the Bill read a third time and passed. SECOND READINGS. Sir Q, Grey moved the second reading of the Parliamentary Oaths Bill. Mr Gisborne doubted whether the Bill wae not ultravires, as conflicting with clauee46 of the Constitution Act, which the House had no power to alter, Tho Hon. Major Atkinson said that, while sympathising with the object of tho Bill, he regretted the loss of the Bill, which was not within the power of the Assembly. He was advised that grave doubts existed whether the measure was not ultra vires. Sir G. Grey said that he had considered and would further consider the points of objection, and if well founded he would in committee propose amendments to remove the objection. Mr Shrimski moved the second reading of the Kakauui Harbor Board Borrowing BUI. The Hon. T. Dick objected, as the Bill offered no security, Mr Maoandrew supported the Bill, stating that no one was likely to lend money without security, and the Harbors Act sufficiently provided for the objection. BUI read a second time. TIMARH HARBOR ENDOWMENT. On the report of the Timaru Harbor Board Endowment Bill being moved, The Hon. W. Kolleston moved its recommittal for the purpose of altering the schedule. Negatived. Mr Whitaker objected altogether to the principle of the BUI. The House divided on the question that the amendments be agreed to. Ayes, 21 ; noes, 9. The amendments were agreed to, and on the motion for the third reading, Mr Whitaker again objected to the principle of the BUI. The motion for adopting the amendments vm carried, and the Bill read a third time and passed. The House rose at 1 a.m.