PARLIAMENTARY.

Globe, Volume XXIII, Issue 2289, 3 August 1881, Page 3

PARLIAMENTARY.

[PBEBS ASSOCIATION TELEGRAM,]

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Tuesday, August 2. The Council met at 2.30 p.m , end immediately went into committee on the Licensing , Bill, The Hon. F. Whitaker gave notice to strike out all the clauses concerning clubs and to insert a series of new clauses far more favorable to clubs than those in the Bill as it came from the Lower House. Several minor amendments were made, and there waa an animated debate on clause 12, providing for an elective Licensing Bench. The Hon. H. Millbb moved its rejection, but the elective principle was carried by 19 to 9.—The following is the division list: For the elective principle—Hons. Acland, Brett, P. Buckley, Chamberlain, Dignan, Fraser, Grace, Henderson, Holmes, G. Johnson, Martin, Menzies, Peacock, Pharazyn, Scotland, Waterhouse, Whitaker, Williamson, Wilson. For the nominative rystem—Hons. Hart, Lahmann, Miller, Nurse, Peter, Pollen, Reynolds, Richmond, Wood. The Council adjourned from 5 to 7 30. EVENING SITTING. The Council met at 7.30, and sat till 10, when it had reached clause 134 of the Licensing Bill. Numerous unimportant amendments wore made, and several clauses postponed. Progress was then reported, the committee to resume to-morrow. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Tuesday, August 2. The Council met at 2.30 p.m. bill passed. On the motion of Mr Stevens, St. Paul’s Presbyterian Church, Christchurch, Trustees Incorporation Bill Report was agreed to, and the Bill was read a third time and passed. NOTICES OP MOTION, The Hon. J. Hall gave notice that he would ask leave to introduce the Railways Construction Bill. The Hon. T. Dick gave notice that he would ask leave to introduce the Town Districts Bill. Sir G. Qbey gave notice that he would ask if the 10 per cent, reduction had been made from civil servants’ salaries last month, and if so, by what authority. RIMUTAKA RAILWAY ACCIDENT. The Hon. T. Dice laid on the table papers referring to the Rimutuka railway accident, which were referred for consideration to the public petitions committee. THB PAYMENT TO MB BEES. A communication was read from the Auditor-General, stating that the sum of £3OO illegally paid to Mr W. L. Rees had not been refunded. The Hon. J. Hall moved that the communication be referred to the public accounts committee. Mr Stkwabt objected to this matter being kept constantly cropping up in the House. The cost of it, between printing and debating, had been far in excess of the sum claimed. It was beneath the dignity of the House to be constantly troubled with this matter. It should be referred to the law officers to advise what should be done. The Hon. W. Johnston agreed that it had been already too often before the House. The Auditor-General, however, was not an officer of the Government, and they had no control over him. He had seen fit to refer the point to this House, and Government was in no way responsible for his action. The motion was agreed to. REPORTS. Mr Bunny brought up the following reports from the waste lands committee on the East Coast Land District Bill and the Lands Act, 1877, Amendment Bill, recommending that the same be passed without amendment. On the petition of the Thames County Council, praying that an enquiry may bo instituted into the nature of certain titles of timber leases—that the committee does not soe its way to recommend any interference, and recommend the petitioners, if they feel aggrieved, to take such steps as they may be advised to test the validity of the lea-es. QUESTIONS. Replying to Mr Stevens, The Hon. T. Dice said that the hospital and charitable aid body proposed to be formed under the new law would be the proper body to make provision for a site and buildings for a benevolent institution in Christchurch. Replying to Mr Harris, The Hon. J. Hall said that Government would cause inquiry to be mode in Auckland into the grievance of railway employes in respect of pay due them to the date of the present reduction, with the view to the redrees of their grievances. Replying to Mr Bain, The Hon. J. Hall said that an additional supply of timber waggons was being prepared to meet the requirements of the trade in Southland. Replying to Mr Sutton, The Hon. W. Johnston said that Government would inquire into the alleged impossibility of obtaining convictions for breaches of the Arms Act, in consequence of the very severe punishments provided, with the view of having the punishment made commensurate with the offence. Replying to Mr Pyke, The Hon. W. J OHNBTON said that inquiries would be made into the condition of affairs existing at small telegraphic stations, with the view of relieving the operators from duty on Sundays. Replying to Mr Pyke, The Hon. W. Johnston said that with the view of preventing confusion, instructions would be given to designate Alexandra (Otago) Alexandra South, so as to distinguish it from Alexandra in Auckland. Replying to Mr McOaughan, The Hon. T. Dice said that Government considers the precautions already adopted in view of the spread of smallpox in New South Wales and Queensland were sufficient, and they would not suspend for the present all communication with the port of Sydney. Replying to Mr Murray, The Hon. T. Dick said that, in addition to the salary of £225 per annum, the architect of the Auckland Board of Education received a commission of 24 per cent, and travelling expenses on work executed under his supervision. Replying to Mr Swanson, The Hon. J. Hall said that Government deemed the law as it existed between landlord and tenant unsatisfactory, and that if "time permitted steps would be taken this session to remedy the evil. NEW LULLS. The following Bills were introduced and read a first time—lnvercargill Gasworks Site (Mr Bain), Christchurch Municipal Council Empowering Municipal Corporations Amendment (Mr Stevens). THE BEPBBSENTATION BILL. The Hon. J. Hall moved for leave to introduce a Bill to re-adjust the representation of the people. Mr Babbon moved, as an addition—“ That it be a recommendation to the Government in framing the Bill that the present number of representatives should not be exceeded.” Ho disclaimed all intention of raising any party question, stating that he moved the amendment in accordance with a general feeling prevailing throughout the House. The Hon. J. Hall said that the unusual ciraumstanoes under which the amendment was proposed, as also its unusual character, compelled him to suggest that it should not bo passed. It would be hardly doing justice ) to the amendment itself. It was one requir- 1

ing debate and coneiderition, and that could he beat given on the second reading of the Bill.

Mr Brown spoke in favor of the amendment being passed. It would be well to give the Government such an expression of their opinion as would guide them in framing the measure. Instead of increasing the number | he thought it would be very wise to reduce it to say sixty members instead of the number returned at present. Mr Bowen agreed in 'the inconvenience of discussing the point at present. He thought that great injustice would arise from having too few representatives. Over representation was no doubt attended with serious inconvenience, but on the other hand under representation would be attended with still more serious consequences. Mr Lbtestam concurred in the inexpediency of the question being discussed at present. He also objected to the opinion of a district caucus being thus med to influence the Government in preparing its measure. Mr Macandeew denied that the intention

was to influence the Government by a district caucus. He thought this an eligible opportunity for discussing the point, and it need not be a protracted debate. He was in favor of the number of the representatives being reduced. The whole framework of the Bill would, he apprehended, depend upon the number of members to be provided for. Mr Shephard, without committing himself in any way, denied that an increase in number of representatives would necessarily delay the despatch of business. Within the last few years the representation had been largely increased, and jet the length of the sessions had not increased within the last twelve or fourteen years. He agreed as to the inexpediency of the amendment being discussed at this time.

Mr Moss contended that the present was the most opportune time for settling the point. If they waited until the Bill had been brought down and the motion for the second reading brought on, a motion of this kind would be accepted as a vote of want of confidence. A position of that kind would be embarrassing to be placed in. At the same time, it was absolutely necessary that the point raised should be fully ventilated. If the Government was strong enough to establish an efficient system of local government, forty members would be quite sufficient for that purpose. Mr Andrews said that this persistent opposition was a mere subterfuge to prevent the Bill coming forward at all. He would oppose the amendment, so as to get the Bill before them as soon as possible. Sir G. Grey suggested, if the Government would aeoopt it, that the debate should be adjourned. The amendment had taken many of them by surprise. Ho moved a motion to that effect.

The Hon. J. Hale opposed the adjournment, reiterating that the present was not the proper time to discuss the point. That had been shown by the whole tone of the debate. Mr Db Laptops did not think that the Government would allow any alteration to be made if once the Bill wss brought down. This was the only opportunity they would have of guiding the Government in framing this Bill. Once it was brought down they would find Government putting their foot down and asking their supporters to assist them in pass’ng it without material change. He hoped that the amendment would not be withdrawn.

Mr Moktgomeet was opposed to an increase of the number of members, but he objected to the amendment being forced at this time.

Mr Sheehan thought that eighty-eight members were sufficient for the work ; still he was not prepared to reduce the number, as had been proposed. Government was to blame for this discussion, because they had exhibited a plan of the proposed readjustment of districts to certain members. What he proposed was that the schedules of the Bill should be submitted at the earliest possible moment in order that all doubt on the subject might be removed. It would be impossible to alter these schedules once they were brought down in the Bill. By following the course he proposed it would enable members to assist the Government in passing the Bill, instead of having it, as was very probable, indefinitely postponed. The motion for adjournment was put and negatived on the voices.

Mr Speight thought that if the Government would give an assurance that they would divest the discussion of all party considerations then they would have no difficulty in making a good workable Bill that would pass without much difficulty. He was afraid that no proposal would be looked upon as satisfactory unless it relegated to the representatives of local bodies the opportunity of having a say in the fixing of electoral boundaries. Ho also spoke in favor of the proposal for restricting the number proposed. The question was put that the amendment stand part of the motion. Ayes, 22; noes, 40. The following is the division list:— Ayes —Messrs Barron, Brown, De Lautour, Finn, Fisher, J. B. (Buffer), Sir G. Grey, Messrs Hurst, W. J., Hutchison, Macandrew, Montgomery, Moss, Murray, Beid, Saunders, Bhrimski, Speight, Stewart, Swanson, Taiaroa, Thompson, Tole, Wallis. Moes—Messrs Andrews, Atkinson, Bain, Bowen, Brandon, Bryce, Bunny, Oolbeok, Dick, J. T. Fisher (Heathoote), Sir W. Pox, Messrs Fulton, Gibbs, Gisborne, Hall, H. Hurst (Wallace), Hursthouse, Kelly, Levestam, Levin, Lundon, MoOaughan, McDonald, McLean, Pitt, Richardson, Bolleston, Seymour, Shephard, Stevens, Btudholme, Sutton, Tawhai, Trimble, Turnbull, Wakefield, Whitaker, White, Wright. Pairs —For: Messrs Harris, Jones, George. Aga.net: Messrs Beetham, Bussell, Johnston. The Bill was introduced and read a first time. The House adjourned at 5.30, EVENING SITTING. The House resumed at 7.30 On the motion for going into committee of supply, it was agreed, on the motion of Mr Bowen that a sum of £2OO should be appropriated for preserving seeds and roots of valuable indigenous plants likely to become extinct on Buahine, Tararua, and other ranges. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY. The House went into committee to consider the estimates. Claes s—Postal5 —Postal and telegraphs, £227,650. The Hon. W. Johnston said that by the amalgamation of these two services they had been enabled to dispense with the services of thirty-one officers, saving in salaries alone £5931, and in other respects the saving had been equally great. In all, they had been enabled to bring down a sum this year leas by £33,700 compared with those of the previous year. That saving had been effected without the least impairing the effioiency of the service.

Mr Sheehan, Mr Thenbuxli, and Sir Q-. Q-bey complained that as the estimates had only been in the hands of members for a couple of hours, they should not be gone on with until time had been allowed for their perusal. The form of having the whole class as one vote was also objectionable, Mr McLean said that no mature consideration was needed for this particular class. It was evident that they could not mate any change, however long they might ponder over them. There might bo departments come up that required more mature consideration, and when they came up it would be time enough to consider the proposal for postponement. Mr Eichaedbon agreed that no discussion could possibly bo provoked on this class. In reply to o question put by Mr Mont-

gomery, The Hon. W. Johnston said that the 10 per cent, reduction had been practically abandoned, but reductions had been otherwise made in accordance with the circumstances of each case. The salaries had been fixed at what was fair, and would be paid as printed. Mr Baixanci said that it was not fair to expect them to deal with these salaries in this offhand way. Time ought to be allowed them to consider the point. Mr Macandbiw concurred in that opinion, and suggested that progress bo reported. Mr J. B. Fishes supported the motion for reporting progress.

Mr Eebtbs suggested that if the Government insisted on going on that members on his side of the House should leave the Home and allow them to do as they pleased. Mr Stewart moved that progress be reported. He blamed the Government for attempting to force the estimates upon such a very short notice. They had been a considerable time in session, and the time bad been frittered away in dealing with Bills of little or no use, and then to come down and insist upon them dealing with £3,000,000 without giving them time for reflection was most extraordinary, and he ventured to say unparalleled in the history of parliamentary procedure.

d I Mr McLean pointed out that they could ie pick out any item to which they might think 1 fit to object, and he saw no reason for the !• postponement. e The Hon. J. Hail said it was a mistake to r say that the Government attempted to force e on the estimates. He contended that the r proper time to have objected was when they t moved that the House go in committee of r supply. No objection having been mads. Government concluded that the committee f was ready to go on with the estimates. If t desired, Government would not object to the i postponement. • Mr Sheehan said that if the Government ) would agree to a sub-division of the various r departments of the class so as to enable them to--1 discuss the various il.oms, he oculd promise them that the Opposition would be prepared • to back them up in the reductions they proposed. i The question for reporting progress was put s and carried. > NEW BILL. The Inspection of Machinery Bill was introduced by message from the Legislative Council, and read a first time. SA3IINS AND LOTTERIES BILL, The Gaming and Latteries Bill was further considered in committee. Clause 24. Police may outer premises where billiards, &c., are played, was amended by the other games ynentioned being excised, and passed. Mr J. B. Fisher moved that progress bo reported, giving it as his opinion that the BUI was not required, that it was cot seriously meant to pass it, and that if passed it would be a most unjustifiable interference with private life. The Hon. T. Dice stated emphatioaUy that the Bill was urgently demanded by the country, and that it was seriously meant to be passed. He opposed the motion to report

progress. The motion was negatived on the voices. Clause 25. Penalties for obstructing constables authorised to enter suspected houses— The term of imprisonment was, on the motion, of Mr Stewart, reduced from six to three months. Clause 28—The penalty for keeping a gaming house was altered from twelve to three months’ imprisonment. Clause 29—Justices may require persona apprehended to give evidence. Mr Dr Latjtobr moved that the clause be struck out. The House divided on the question that the clause stand as printed Ayes, 30 ; □oes, 24. Mr Berths moved that progress be reported. Mr J. B. Fisher supported the motion, stating that the policy of the Government appeared to be to make every person they possibly could criminals. The Bill »m quite unnecessary, and, with the exception of Otago, there was no demand for it.

The House divided—Ayes, 19 j noes, 37, Clause 30 was passed without amendment. Clause 44—Penalties appropriated—waa amended so as to leave it discretionary with the Judge to allocate a portion o£ the penalty to the informer or not. Clauses 46 and 47 were struck out. Clause 48—Mr Shbphaed moved that it bo struck out. The question was put that it be retained— Ayes, 22 ; noes, 18. The Hon. T. Dick moved the addition of the following amendments: —After paragraph 1, section B—Every person who uses, exhibits, or keeps any book, paper, writing or other means or substance for the purpose of enter* ing, recording, or noting any bet, wager, or game for any purpose by this Act declared to be unlawful, or who invitee, solicits, or

procures any person to bet or make any wager, or enter into any such game as aforesaid, shall be liable to the penalties prescribed by this section. After section 28:—After the passing of this Act it shall not be lawful for any person to print or publish, or permit or suffer to be printed or published, any notice, handbill, placard, card, or advertisement for the purpose of inviting attention to, or in any way making public any reference to any combination, transaction, undertaking, agreement, subscription, or any other matter or thing, howsoever designated, which is by this Act declared to be unlawful, and whether such contribution, transaction, agreement, subscriptions, or any other matter or thing shall be called or known by any name, sign, or device or not; every person knowingly committing or suffering a breach of this provision shall be liable to a penalty of not less than £lO, nor more than £IOO, in respect of every such offence. Mr McLean objected to these clauses, and remarked that he fully expected the next

Bill they would introduce would be one to compel persons to go to Church and attend Sunday Schools. Mr Mobs said that if they insisted upon this extreme class of legislation, they would simply bring the whole lav on this subject into contempt, and the last state of the case would be worse than the first. The words—“ For any purpose declared by this Act to be,” &0., were struck out. Mr Hamlin moved that the Chairman do now leave the chair. The House divided. Ayes, 8 ; noes, 34. Messrs Sutton, Bonae, Gibbobnb, and others, declared that the new clause was going too far. It would make it illegal to bet a pair of gloves or a shilling at whist. If it passed they would oppose the Bill. The Hon. T. Dick expressed his willingness to withdraw the new clauses, Mr Jones strongly objected to the withdrawal, The first new danse was carried by 21 to 14. The Hon. T. Dick then withdrew the second one. Mr De Lautoub moved a new danse rendering the proprietors of Chinese gambling house* liable to a penalty of not exceeding £SO, or in default of payment three months’ imprisonment with or without hard labor. The Clause was added to the Bill.

A new clause, that the Bill should come into operation on November Ist, 1881, was carried. The schedule was passed, and the Bill reported as amended. The House adjourned at 1 a.m.