PARLIAMENTARY.

Globe, Volume XXIII, Issue 227, 21 July 1881, Page 3

PARLIAMENTARY.

[PBBSB ASSOCIATION TBLBSBAM.] LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, Wednesday, July 20. The Council met at 2 30 p.m. The Vaerant Act Amendment Bill (Hon. Col. Brett) and the Licensing Bill (from the Lower House) were read a first time. The Wellington Queen’s Wharf Sale Bill, Regulation of Elections Bill, and Oamaru Harbor Board Bill, were read a second time, the latter, on a division, by 14 votes to 10. The Public Reserves Bill and the Employment of Females and other Bills wore read a third time. The Companies Bill was passed through committee with numerous amendments. The other business was postponed, and the Connell rose at 5 p.m, HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Wednesday, July 20. The House met at 2.30 p.m. NOTICE OB MOTION. Mr Macandbew gave notice to move for the appointment of a committee to consider the best means for establishing direct steam communication between Now Zealand and the homo country. QUESTIONS. Replying to Mr Hutchison, The Hon. J. Hall said.it must depend upon the development of public events as to when the publication of the Governor’s dispatch bearing upon the state of Native affairs and the imprisonment of the Natives could be published without prejudice to the public interest. He complained that in stating his question, Mr Hutchison had taken a liberty in explanation, which was calculated to complicate in relation to the Natives, and draw the Government into explanations impolitic under the circumstances. He (Mr Hall) said, in reference to this, that the same reason which prevented the Government producing the dispatch referred to prevented the Government from explaining as to when it would be consistent with the public interest to do so. Replying to Mr Levestam, The Hon. W. Rollbston said that the power of inflicting a penalty equal to 1000 per cent, on the rent due in the event of a tenant of Crown lands in Nelson district not paying his rent on the day it fell due was conferred upon them by law. Ho would look into the matter, and if it was bad or inflicted a hardship he would see what improvements could be made in the law.

Replying to Mr Stevens, The Hon, T. Dick said the law as it stood was sufficient to prevent the public health being endangered by impure milk supplied to customers. The Health Boards had power to inspect and clean dairies, and take what action might otherwise appear to bo necessary for the public protection. Replying to Mr McDonald, The Hon. W. Rollbston said the Government had undertaken to subscribe £2OO towards the erection of a flour mill for the Ngatipukeo tribe at Whakatane, and he assumed that the money would bo paid on the work being gone on with.

Replying to Mr Turnbull, The Hon. T. Dick said that prison officials would be promoted in accordance with their merits, and the recommendation of the prisons inspector of appointing retired naval and military officers would not be given effect to. Replying to Mr Reeves, The Hon. W. Rollbston said it was not their intention to bring in a Bill this session to legalise marriage with a deceased husband’s brother.

Replying eo Mr Sutton, The Hon. W. Rollbston said that he would inquire as to the necessity for introducing a Bill for the extension and operation of the laws relating to goldfields over the various water race reserves.

Replying to Mr Seddon, The Hon. W. Rollbston said that Government would see what could bo done in the way of instructing the manager of the Waimea water-race that for the future all European and American miners who were residents of the Waimea and Stafford mining districts prior to the construction of the Waimea water-race, shall have a first right to the water from the said race. His impression at present was that one person was as much entitled as another to the water so long as they were prepared to pay for it. WANT OF CONFIDENCE DEBATE.

In the absence of Mr Fulton, Mr Lbtestam resum sd the debate on the motion for the second reading of the Grown and Native Lands Rating Bill. He said that ho would confine his remarks to a statement of the reasons for the vote he proposed to give. The proposals the Government would not recommentDkthemselves to the country. Ho came to use bis judgment to the best advantage, and it was in respect of that of opinion that ho came to the conclusion he had done. These proposals appeared to him to embody the worst piece of government that could possibly be conceived. In the first instance, they did not appear to have any intention of bringing forward proposals of the kind, and it was only when

I the necessity was forced upon them that Ministers consented to bring down a scheme. In that respect their conduct was similar to that of last year when retrenchment was forced on them, and executed in a similarly clumsy manner. The real secret of good local government was to set aside a fund for the localities, to be distributed in accordance with some well digested scheme, leaving those bodies to expend the money to the best advantage. He also objected to the proposed con stitution of the Board of Works. He desired to see it elected by the districts, and not in the mode proposed. He demurred to the statement that this House was the place where grievances should bo best redressed. He had been told that the number of petitions before the public petitions committee prevented substantial justice being done. He believed to a large extent in the propositions stated by Mr Saunders, and thought that while under provincialism in its old form the money was not fairly distributed, under the modified scheme pr< pounded by Mr Saunders that difficulty would bo remedied, He did not agree with the proposal of the Treasurer to reduce the property tax. That appeared to him to be a piece of class legislation. It was true a reduction was also proposed in customs, but he did not believe that the reduction in that direction would bo felt to any appreciable extent. They were told that the property tax had been paid readily. Why, then, not continue it and use the surplus amount in colonising schemes ? Unless Government took hack their proposals, and substituted others, ho would be bound to vote against them.

Mr Collins said that the country had been renewing its social and political strength under tho wise administration of ministers. If this vote of want of confidence was carried, it would moan a return to the former unsatisfactory state of affairs. Considering the condition of tho country, he thought it would be most inadvisable to disturb the present administration. Ho had made no promises when elected, but he intended to vote for the Government, in the exercise of a strong conviction that he was doing what was best both for his constituents and the colony. Their proposals were not revolutionary. They were simply an endeavor to make the institutions they had more useful. They had been invited to discuss various schemes for local government but to his mind none of these were so satis, factory as the one put forward by the Government. To ask them to go back to provincialism was simply to invite them to disinter a fossilised animal and feast on its carcase. Then the Government had been taunted with the statement that when the districts had asked them for money they had given them a machine. Ho was willing to accept that definition. What was required to secure the money was a machine, a taxing machine, like the Bill complained of. The complaint about the non-redress of grievances he did not understand. He knew of no grievances remaining unredreseed which [could —as would seem to be implied—have been redressed by Erovinoialism. With Mr Saunders’ speech e was both sorry and disappointed. If once they attempted to restore provincial institutions they would not stop until provincialism hod secured for itself all the obnoxious powers it previously had borrowed. He also demurred to the proposal to leave the outlying districts wholly unprovided for, and to concentrate all their energies upon centres of population. A more vicious proposal, and one which would more seriously damage his (Mr Saunders’) district of Kaikoura could not possibly be conceived. The Roads Construction Bill before the House would be of great benefit, inasmuch as it would enable these districts to secure a fair and reasonable share of the expenditure. The speech of Mr Ormond showed that he was dissatisfied with the Government proposals, but it was defective, inasmuch as it gave no indication of what he really wanted in their place. The objection to the £IOO,OOO proposed to be advanced to the local bodies was that it was to be given at too low a rate of interest. That was an objection in which he concurred, but it was one which could easily be remedied in committee. The objection to the Native land rating, that it was an attempt to rob them of their land, was absolutely wrong. The land must be enormously improved by these roads, and it was surely not unfair that they should be asked to contribute towards them, Mr Mubbat said it was most unusual in cases of this kind to find all the speeches made on one side of the House. Their opponents must surely have a poor tale to tell when they were so loath to tell it. It would have been fairer and more straightforward to have tabled a direct vote of no confidence, and not try to bring about such a result by means of a side issue. He did not concur altogether in the proposals of tho Government. The Native lands had been vastly improved by the public expenditure, and yet they had not contributed a penny towards the general impetus to advancement. It was also but right that the Crown lands should be made to bear the cost of the money expended for their advance. The proposal for opening up Crown lands he would wish to see altered, so that provision was made for making roads before and not after sale. The complaint that proper redress of grievances could not be got was not peculiar to this House. The same complaint existed against the provincial Councils. He would vote against the amendment.

Mr Tubnbull contended that the improved state of the colony was not due to sagacity on the part of the Ministry, but to the buoyancy of its natural resources. If the Bill was not a good one, and he contended that it was not, then their duty was to put their foot upon it at once. There was no use wasting night after night in committee. By far the best way was to take the issue upon it at once. Ho objected to the proposed constitution of the Board of Works. The proposal that members should be elected, by the House simply meant that the Board would be elected by the Ministers of the day. The result would bo, that in case of petition from the district of a friend, and another from the district of an opponent, the former would get the money, and the application of the other would be neglected. In one word, it would simply amount to the appointment of three new Ministers. He also objected to the method in which the money was to be raised, and as to its distribution,'he’oharacterised it as a complete anomaly. The debate was interrupted by the 5.30 adjournment. EVENING SITTING. The House resumed at 7.30 p.m. WANT OF CONFIDENCE DEBATE.

The adjourned debate on the no-confidenoo motion was resumed by Mr Tubnbfll, who charged the Government with asvmg practised false economy in the matter of retrenchment. Instead of helping the country on they had driven away the bone and sinew of the country in disgust. The Bill before the House would have, tke effect of throwing a great deal of patronage into the hands of the Government and in that way would secure a fresh lease of power for them—a lease they could not otherwise expect to secure. He enumerated the various duties devolving upon the central government, designating education as one of the more important. He desired to see the present system modified, but so as not to destroy its efficiency. The other functions devolving on the state were postal and telegraphy and law and justice. The rest of the administration should be left in the bauds of the districts. He looked upon Mr Saunders’ proposal as the most reasonable, and being a friend of the Government they could not do better than adopt bis hints. A great drawback to provincialism was the tendency of that House to exercise a control over it. Mr Saunders’ system, ho thought, would obviate that difficulty. The effect of its adoption would be to curtail their labors, and in that way the Legislative expenses would be similarly curtailed. It would relievo the Government from the unseemly pressure brought to boar upon it in connection with the Public Works.

Mr Tn WrtEOEO criticised the proposal for rating Native lands. The object of the measure wag to swallow up the lands of the Natives. The principle of the Bill in this respect was monstrous. It meant allowing Ministers to have control over Native lands. The Bill simply meant that Government was to mortgage the lands which were to bo rated at 6s 8d per acre, and he asked if Government would give that for the land. Its effect would be to stop transactions in Native lands, and the result would be that the rates would accumulate, the ultimate end being that the land would bo confiscated altogether. Last year the Natives had asked if their lands were liable for repayment of the borrowed money, and the reply was no. In spite of that they were now asked to pay for that money. The borrowed money was never employed in the improvement of their lands. What the Natives wanted was the powsr to manage their own affairs. Had that power

been granted there would have been no diffi culty to deal with. The House had besn too selfish altogether, and that was what caused the Maori to bo suspicious of the doings of Parliament.

Mr Tawhaio said that the Colonial Treasurer, as member for Taranaki, hod already had a taste of the sweets of Native lands, ana he was now anxious to have another bite at them. The conduct of the Treasurer reminded him of Ahab when he coveted Naboth’s vineyard. He for one was not prepared to yield up the lands of his forefather. He would like to see a mill stone tied round the neck of this Bill and have it thrown into the depths of the sea 10C0 mile* from New Zealand.

Mr Wakbvibld regretted that those gentlemen who were acquainted with the Natives had not given them a fairer estimate of the contents of the Bill. It was plain from what had transpired that they had been but illinformed on the point. He denied a statement made by Mr Ormond to the effect that his demand for local government was in any respect similar to that of Sir G. Grey. The two claims were diametrically opposite. In this matter he desired tobeinnoway associated with the action of MrOrmond. He hadsaidthat he would support any statesmanlike scheme for local government independent altogether of party consideration*. Sir G. Grey proposed to restore Provincialism, and with that issue Mr Ormond had identified himself. He (Mr Wakefield), on the other hand, advocated an extension and improvement on the present system. That was the difference between Mr Ormond’s proposals and the suggestions he had made at the beginning of the session. The Government scheme, to his mind, was the most statesmanlike, and to that proposal he consequently gave in his adherence. Mr Ormond was a member of the Ministry who abolished the provinces and brought in the Counties Act in 1876. He was one who spoke most warmly in support of the latter. They were to bo subsidised and otherwise provided for. As time wore on it was found that they could not be thus well provided for, and he now came down and sought to abolish the very system he had helped to establish. Ho was no doubt frank in telling them that in aiding abolition he made a mistake. That might be an honest admission, but it was a sore blemish on his political reputation. Who could say but in course of t'me he would turn round and tell them that ho had made a mistake in the course he was now pursuing. Altogether he had said enough to prove that ho was not a safe guide in politics. As a supporter of the Government who was not satisfied with their proposals ho ought to have gone to the Government and pointed out the defects. In that case Government would cither have given way to the wishes of their friends, or asked them to support the measure for reasons of larger policy. Instead of doing that, without lotting anyone know, he suddenly got up and moved an amendment that if carried must of necessity cause the Government to leave those benches. Although he did not let his friends know of his intention be let the Opposition know of his intention. Mr Osmond absolutely denied the statement.

Mr Wakefield said ho was glad to hear the denial, and he believed it ; but, at the same time, he must Bay that appearances had been against him. Mr Ormond bad been on confidential terms with the Government party. Ho consulted them during the early part of the session as to what should be done, and the last impression left on their minds was that he had any intention of injuring the position of the Government. Despite these facts ho now turned round with a motion which, if carried, must turn them out of office. For himself he would like to see the Government bring down a bolder scheme than they had done, giving local bodies a definite position and larger powers. Their scheme, however, went in the right direction—the direction of rendering local bodies more uecful and efficient than they had been. He had watched the operations of the county system since it was first inaugurated, and he had seen enough to convince him that it had a very great deal of local self-government in it. He instanced its operations on the west coast of the Middle Island, and then traced the operations of the system in Canterbury, where a great many of the Road Boards had been absorbed. Indeed, taking the whole colony through, it would be shown that amidst many disadvantages it had worked well. In Olive, the county to which Mr Ormond belonged, it had worked so well that they had made the whole of the roads county roads. Indeed, he had been surprised at the success that had attended this system all through. The Government proposals were of a nature to effect much needed changes without causing any great disturbance of the system in operation. Even if that had not been the case it was no reason why the Government should be turned out. It would then have been their duty in committee to make the required amendments. Had they not been found workable when in committee, the fact would have been intimated to the Government when they would no doubt have withdrawn their proposal. In that case temporary provision would have been made for local bodies, and on the first opportunity an improved system brought down a system more in harmony with the opinion of the House. Despite the attempt aside by Mr Ormond to gloss over the fact, the amendment was a vote of no confidence, and the Government must either resign or else go to the country if it were carried. Mr Ormond took that step with the knowledge that redistribution of seats was anxiously desired by the country, and that redistribution could not take place in time for the election that would then be rendered imminent. They must assume that if beaten the Government would resign. That was what they had to assume in the first instance. In that case Mr Ormond would have to form a Ministry ; he would have to form a Ministry out of a party with whom he had never worked, and with whom he was at daggers drawn. In that case they would have Mr Ormond at the head of the Government, Mr Sheehan Native Minister, Mr Ballance Treasurer, and in all probability Mr Speight would have a portfolio too. A more brilliant Government could not bo imagined. What kind of policy could such a combination produce ? What kind of local government would they get from such a Government ? The whole thing would mean that they would have a change of Ministry but no change of local administration. That was palpable from the component parts he had enumerated. There were men on the other side of the House fit to form a Government, but they could only form a good Government by coming into office in a proper way, and not under the wing of one who had all along been their opponent. Looking back on the last two years, he could not but be struck by the success that had attended the administration of the Government. They were men of the highest personal character, and they had been successful in communicating that high character to their administration. They had been an economical Ministry j they had reduced the expenditure to a degree that they now managed to do what they had never done before, that is, live within their income. Then again in Native affairs, they had wrought a great improvement compared with what had been the state of matters under the administration of the late Government, The Native office and all its corruptions had been swept away, and yet despite the predictions of the late Native Minister there had been no bloody war. Under the late administration thousands were squandered in attempting to open up negotiations with the King Natives. This Government had let the Natives alone. They had no trouble with Tawhaio. They told the Natives that they would be governed the same as the Europeans, and what did they find ? Tawhaio was now moving quietly about in the European settlements, no notice being taken of him. And what did they now find ? They found these Natives bringing in their followers and delivering up their arms. Had this taken place under Sir Q. Grey’s Government it would have been heralded all over the colony, and great work otherwise made over the event. What did this Government do under the circumstances? They did not even announce the fact to the House until the House questioned them on the point. The country would not believe that it was a good thing to remove these men who had been so successful from office. He believed it would be a great disaster if they were to be removed from office at this time. The Government would be justified in putting the issue to the country as one between the restoration of provincialism and the placi local bodies in a better position, with larger powers. He believed that the Government would be perfectly safe to go to the country upon this. He believed that they would be safe to go to the country on their past administration, and also that they were prepared to go on with redistribution, bur were prevented

from doing eo by the Opposition. Were ho at the head of the Government he would not go to the country, but resign, and throw the onus on Mr Ormond of forming a Government out of the material he had at hand.

Mr Osmond explained that ho had been, as stated, on terms of intimacy with the Government party this session. He had had communications, but not of the nature attempted to be eet up by the last speaker. He had been carefully reticent with - tho party. Government quite understood his feeling towards them, and he had not by word or otherwise given the Government to understand that ho continued a member of the party on a confidential footing with them. In addressing his constituents months ago he had clearly defined his position.

Tho Hon. Major Atkinson rose to contra, diet this statement, but was ruled out of order.

Mr Wakefield said he had spoken cn information, which ho believed to bo reliable. Mr MoLeak said his communications with Mr Ormond led him to believe that ho was a supporter of the Government.

Tho Hon, W. Rollbston said that he had been on intimate terms with Mr Ormond. Their communications were such as to cause him great surprise at finding Mr Ormond taking up tho position ho had done. Mr Wood agreed with the previous speaker as to the character of the Government administration, and yet he would be found in one lobby and Mr Wakefield in another. The reason was that Mr Wakefield had never touched the real question at al 1. The Maori speakers had grasped the question very well, and there was no one who was not blinded by party ties but was convinced that what they said was correct. Mr Wakefield had charged Mr Ormond with having been associated with the Opposition, although the former in commencing hia speech had distinctly said that ho was associated with no one in the action ho had taken. He charged the Government with refusing to accept the real issue, and with endeavouring to throw something else on tho floor to fight over. They had been told that the Government proposals wore tho most statesmanlike and practicable before them. Ho agreed ; but that was not saying much, as they had only the one proposal. There was only the one question before the House, the one on the Order Paper, and it was on that alone ho would either speak or vote. He denied that Mr Ormond wanted to throw everything in disorder. He wanted things to remain as they were, and to prevent the passage of a most mischievous Bill. Mr Wakefield had told them what to do if they were dissatisfied with Ministers’ proposals. They wore to go to Ministers, and say this or that mnst be altered. That was altogether wrong ; it was Government by caucus. The Government brought down their Bills, and it was when these made their appearance in the House that they objected to them. That was the proper place to object. Had Mr Ormond not moved an amendment on the proposals, then he (Mr Wood) intended to have done so. He had communicated bis intention to do so to Mr Ormond, and finding Mr Ormond intended to do so he gave way to him. Mr Ormond then stated that it would be no question of putting the Government off the benches. Last session the Treasurer brought down a financial statement full of all sorts of proposals, not one of which were carried, eo that this motion would not put the Government in a worse position than it was in last session. There would be no question about going out at all if the amendment was carried. They would accommodate themselves to the situation as they had already done to the circumstances, division or no division. This Bill could not pass through committee that was what Mr Ormond achieved ; no member on the Government side of the House had attempted to answer the complete analysis of their proposals in in the speech delivered by Mr Ormond. They had heard nothing about these local government Bills in the Governor’s speech, nor yet in any of the Government speeches or statements prior to the session. Sir G. Grey had intimated his intention to bring down a Bill of this kind and then down came the Government proposals. The question of getting redress had been incidentally alluded to. He considered that a matter of far more importance than might at first sight be assumed. In support of that fact he instanced the case of a person in Auckland who claimed compensation for wrongful imprisonment, and communicated the many obstacles encountered in seeking that redress. He did not go the length of arguing that a new constitution was required; something more simple in the form of a local committee might he made to suit the purpose. Reference had been made to the movements of the King Natives. He had just received the following telegram :—“ Do not listen to what you see in the newspaper. At the end of this movement you will be informed of tho truth. Do not believe anything that is said by the Government or any other person.” That telegram was signed by one of the King party, about whom they had heard so much. He opposed the Government proposals upon two grounds :—First, they involved additional taxation, and second, further borrowing. The Government puff what they called the prosperity of the colony in a manner that was not warranted. They did not find English statesmen boasting of the extraordinary prosperity of the country. The ground of this boast was that money was easy. That simply indicated that there was no outlet for the money. When trade was good money was never cheap, but when trade was slack and business scarce money was cheap, because there was no investment. The money all came from England, where it was plentiful from the causes h® had named. Take Wellington and they found building after building for eale or to let. That was not a sign of prosperity. In all parts of the colony there was a cry of want of employment. That was not a sign of prosperity. Within the last twelve months wages had decreased 15 to 20 per cent. Then, again, Ifc millions of money in sovereigns had to be sent to England out of loan. It was questionable if they would ha able to continue doing this. This was a process of depreciation constantly going on which would be watched with anxiety by every economist. It was upon these grounds that he opposed the intentions of the Government to re-open the sluice gates of borrowing. He denied that the country districts generally of the North had been benefited by tho railway expenditure as alleged by the Treasurer, and yet the inhabitants of those districts had to pay their share of the expenses of the railways. The rating of Crown lands was a proposal bad in principle as they were producing nothing. They were the lands of the people, and the people wore asked to tax themselves to pay rates to themselves. Then how long would it be before both these lands and tho Native lands eat their heads off. Ho had known landoffered to any one who would pay the rates. Upon what principle of justice could they impose rates on Native lands that were not held by Drown grant. It would eventually fall on tho purchaser. These lands were generally sold at 3s and 4s per acre, and when tho rates exceeded that it meant confiscation. Then the Natives did not want roads ; they even objected to allow telegraph lines to pass through their lands, yet the Government proposed to force them to pay for what they did not want. If they went on advancing until the rates exceeded the value of tho land where was tho security. A much shorter way would be to subsidise the Road Boards if they had any money to spare. Then as regarded the opening of Drown lands by roads, tho proper course was to make the roads, and then the lands would acquire a higher money value. Tho proposal to create a fund for main and district roads was next discussed. When the Treasurer had no other source of wealth he immediately had recourse to an imaginary fund. In 1876 this land fund was operated upon by means of Treasury bills, and these had never been taken up yet. When a fair test was applied to this land fund it altogether vanished into thin air. Tho proposal to give a free grant of £IOO,OOO was proposed in tho face of a statement that they would have to tax themselves. This was nothin.; more than a proposal similar to the many proposals made on one day to give eo much for so much, which was completely swept away immediately after. Instead of hoodwinking them in that way, they ought to say either there wore no funds available for the purpose, or that they must tax themselves for the requisite funds. Ho believed that there was still an alternative between borrowing more money and the total suspension of all works. They had spent one million of money on acquiring a landed estate in the North Island, which was paying nothing. Out of the balance of the public works fund a sum of £200,000 should, he would propose, bo employed in the opening up the lands. In that case they would get back their million of money, and provide for a continuous stream of land fund. He proposed to take tho

opinion of the House on a proposal of that kind at an early date. The resolutions he should propose provided that this money should be allocated amongst the different districts—£so,ooo north of Auckland, £50,000 to Wellington, and so on, and the rest to be expended by the local bodies. In the allocation he would purposely leave Taranaki cut, as he could not see a spot in that favored province where there was room for any more expenditure than they had already had. Mr OLITBB said that usually when votes of this kind were proposed, grave charges were adduced. On this occasion the only charge was that certain proposals affecting only a few interests in the colony were not satisfactory. These proposals had only been submitted in a general way, and the Bills to give effect to these proposals were not all before them. He had never known the existence of a Government threatened on such frivolous grounds. The only real demand by the local bodies was to provide them with the funds necessary to carry on their work. This was the only demand that came to them from the country itself. What was proposed on the other side to take the place of the present form of local government was a modified system of provfncialism. What power would such bsdleo have to redress grievances more than they had. He did not think that the country was prepared to go back to such a system of provincialism. Superintendents occupied, no doubt, a happy position, but he ventured to say that, had they continued to the present day the colony would have been bankrupt. It was carious that Mr Ormond should throw aside all his past political associations for a not by any means very important principle. If the proposals were seriously considered in committee they would, succeed in making them into a very acceptable measure. All they wanted was nothing very much different from what they had. Ho twitted Mr Ormond with a desire to return to the position he had already held in Hawke’s Bay—that of Superintendent feeling, rs ho no doubt did, that since he lost that position he had lost much of his personal importance. He recognised tho fact that they would of necessity have to take action with tho view of completing their line? of railway. The proposal for rating Native lands was a step in the right direction. What was wanted was to make the Maoris fully recognise their responsibilities, and this was a getting in of tho thin end of the wedge. He also spoke in favor of the proposal to rate Crown lands. It was simply the measure of the necessary contributions that the localities had a right to expert from the Government. He believed that the country would blame Mr Ormond most severely for the action he had taken, and he defended the Government against the imputation made that they had attempted to disguise tho real state of their finances. He believed this action i f Mir Ormond would he disastrous. It would comprise the issue on which they would go to the country, as there would be no time for a redistribution of representation before the next election. They would have a dissolution, and then they would have to dissolve again in, say, six months, and Mr Ormond would be responsible for all that trouble and expense. On the motion of Hr Beetham, The House adjourned at 12.15.