PARLIAMENTARY.

Globe, Volume XXIII, Issue 2247, 15 June 1881, Page 3

PARLIAMENTARY.

[FBBSB ASSOCIATION TELEGBAM.J LEGISLATIVE OOUNOIL. Tuesday, Jtjne 14. The Council met at 2.30 p.m. The Hon. F. Whitakbb laid five batchesof papers on the table. A long addreee, mainly formal, in reply to the Governor's speech, was brought up by the committee. The Hon. Mr Lahuask gavo notice to move its adoption next day. In reply to the Hon. N. Wilson, The Hon. F. Whitakbb said that the return of all monies paid to Sir J. Vogel by the colony would be presented immediately. The Hon. F. Whitakbb gave notice of a now Bill to prevent fraud and improvidence in alienating Native land, and to extend the jurisdiction of the Land Court to the lands of deceased Natives.

The following committees wore elected, on the motions of the Hon. P. Whitakbb and Captain Baillie—Local Bills (three), Waste Lands, Standing Orders, Private Bills, Reporting, Selection, Printing, Library, and Petitions. The two last were chosen by ballot. The Council adjournod at 3.35.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

Tuesday, Junb 14. The House met at 2.30 p.m. NBW MEMBEB. Mr Leyestam, the member for Nelson, was formally introduced by Messrs Pitt and Shophard, and took his seat. NOTICES OF MOTION. The following amongst other notices of motion were given— Sir G. Gbby—To ask for all correspondence relative to the visit of the detached squadron and Royal Princes, the places they are Likely to visit. Mr Macandbbw—lf the Government intended making any provision for a direct steam service to Great Britain. Mr Hutchison—lf the Government woula produce all the circulars issued by the Inspector of Prisons. Mr Mtjbbay, to move—" That in the opinion of this House local government is conducted under great disadvantage : —(1) From defects in the system ; (2) from local funds from the payment of rates to effect local improvement, being absorbed by the General Government expenditure; (3) from tho counties being deprived of 20 peroent. of the land fund, except in the case of New Plymouth; and that (the Government be requested to bring in a Bill this session to remedy the above causes of complaint, and others which may be established during the debate on this resolution ; " also, to ask if the Government will give effect to the recommendation of the Committee on Agriculture to impose some duty on maize, as on other imported cereals ; also, to move—" That for administrative economy and publio convenience, postage stamps should, tip to oertain limit, be substituted for revenue stamps." ■ questions. Replying to Mr Maoandrew, The Hon J. Haxl said that Government had received an invitation to attend the opening of the Danedin Industrial Exhibition. They regretted that they could not attend. Every faoility would, however, be afforded members desirous of being present, and in the event of a sufficient number being so desirous, the Hinemoa would be placed at their disposal. Replying to Mr Hutchison, The Hon. Major Atkinson said that Government did not propose to make any amendment of the Shipping and Steamers Act, or to legislate so as to prohibit small steamers in the coasting trade from going to sea insufficiently manned. The Act, as it stood, was based on the English Act, and unless a strong case was made out, they did not see any necessity for interfering with the regulations presently in force. Replying to Mr Hutchison, The Hon. T. Dies said that Government would introduce a Bill to consolidate and amend the existing legislature regulating Lunatio Asylums. Replying to Mr Hutchison, The Hon. T. Dior said that Government desired, as far as possible, to avoid interfering with free labor by the introduction of prison labor competition, but it was absolutely necessary that employment should be found for prisoners, and it was but right that that employment should be made, as far as possible, reproductive. Replying to Mr Levin, The Hon. T. Dick said that Government had just received copies of two Bankruptcy Bills introduced in the Imperial Parliament. After looking into their contents, Government would be prepared to say whether or not an amendment on the Bankruptcy Act would introduced this session.

Replying to Mr Hutchison, The Hon. J. Hat.t, said that the Government had reported to the Colonial Offico regarding Native affairs, especially aa they hear on the imprisonment of Maoris with and without trial for alleged political offences. He hoped shortly to lay the despatch on the. table.

Replying to Mr Hutchison, The Hon. T. Dick said it wonld be impoesible to pnt the House in possession of the census returns of the number of children of school age within a few weeks hence, as all these returns would most probably not have been reoeived. FIBET EBADIFGS. The following Bills were introduced and read a first time :—Licensing, Hospital and Charitable Institutions and Distribution of Charitable Aid, and Chinese Immigration. COMMITTEES. The following Sessional Committees were appointed s Library.—The Speaker, Messrs Bowen, Bunny, G-isborne, Sir G. Grey, Messrs Oliver, S wanson, Tole, Wallis, and Header Wood. Local Bills. Messrs Ballance, Bowen, Finn, J. B. Fisher, Fulton, Ormond, Seymour, Shephard, Stewart and Tole. Native Affairs.—Messrs Bowen, Bryce, Sir G. Grey, Messrs Hamlin, M'Lean, Russell, Sheehan, Tairoa, Tawhai, Tomoana, Te Wheoro, Trimble, Wakefield and Rollooton. Waste Lands.—Messrs Bunny, Collins, Driver, Fulton, Hurst, Bastings, Macandrew, Ormond, Thomson, Rolleston. Ooldfields. —Messrs Brown, Do Lautour, Sir Qr. Grey, Messrs Hirst, Fyke, Beeves, Seddon, Gibbs, Rolleston. Reporting Debates.—Sir G. M. O'Rorke, Messrs Bain, Ballance, De Lautour, Hutchison, Hall, Eeid, Saunders, Wakefield and Whitaker. Standing Orders and Petitions Distributions.—Messrs Barron, J. T. Fisher, Harris, J. B. Fisher, Hirst, Levin, Luudon, Mason, MoOaughan, Shanks, Sutton. Petitions Classification. —Messrs Allwright, Andrews, Barron, Kelly, Kcnney, Murray, Richardson, Swanson, Turnbull, Dick. Dr.WAiiLIB criticised adversely the selection of the members named to serve on the committees, and entered his protest against the names of those selected for the Waste Lands Committee. BExmurs. On the motion of Mr. Bxjsjst, it was agreed that a return should be furnished showing the names of members of the Civil Service whose services have been dispensed with since the Ist January, 1880, stating the departments they severally belonged to, and the salary paid to eaoh, also the compensation received by eaoh; also a return giving the names of persons appointed to the Public Service from the same date, showing the department to which each is appointed and the salary payable to each, and if the services of any so appointed had previously boen dispensed with ; this return to show_ whether the compensation received was repaid to the Treasury, or in what manner the same was dealt with. Mr Hutchison, on a motion for the appointment of the Petitions Committee, drew attention to the perfunctory and unsatisfactory manner in which petitions were usually dealt with. Mr Gisbs, to some extent, coincided, and suggested that the work was too heavy for one committee to do justice to all petitions. At 4.30 the House adjournsd to 7.30 p.m.

EVENING SITTING. The House resumed at 7.30. ADDBEBS IK BBPIY.

Mr Collins moved the Addresß in Reply. He said that they might fairly reciprocate his Excellency's congratulations in view of the improved state of affairs throughout the oolony. He characterised tho speech as temperate and statesmanlike, and he had no doubt that the House would readily accept it in the spirit it breathed, and adopt the motion proposed of making a respectful

Address in Boply. Not only had they reduced the cost of the public service, but had done it without impairing its effioienoy. In fact, he w»b o£ opinion that the effioienoy of the servico had boon inoroaaed. The railways were paying as they bad cover paid before, and he could apeak from personal knowledge when ho said that the efficiency of their linos hr.d bi'STi greatly improved. He did not foel bound to adhere strictly to the policy whicn had beor. adopted, and ho believed in some respects that it might bo improved. Large reductionn, aa a matter of courso, must ontau hardships on some, at the same time the colony ought to be very careful that it did not underpay its public servants. That was a danger ho hoped the Government would be careful to Ruard against. He was not however to be understood as finding fault with their general policy. He heartily approved of it. The railway return of 31 por cent, was better than they could have reasonably expected. The proposal to assist companies in making railways was wise, but he had some doubts that unless carefully guarded it might lead to serious complications. It might throw into the hands of suoh companies groat political power. At the game time, he was alive to the importance of opening up the country and its resources. They should not depreoate railways because they might not happen to pay at the very outset. The fact that these lines were now paying as they were, showed that they tended to promote settlement. He congratulated them on the aspeot presented by the Native officers. It was their duty to fulfil all the promisos made to the Natives, but at the same time it was equally necessary to deal fairly with them. In a word, what he aimed at was to impress upon tbem the necessity of doing their duty by the Native population, and at the same time compelling the Natives to do their duty to them. He was sure they were all glad to hear that the systematic laying out of roads through Crown lands had been oarried on. He hoped that the system would be carried out all through the colony. It was a fact that some parts of the colony of which he knew something had been neglected both as regards roods and railway works He spoke in favorable terms of tho good likely to result from the intercolonial conference. It would tend he belloved to strengthen their position, and enable them to understand each other better than they hsd done. The position taken by New Zealand in the Melbourne Exhibition was next alluded to, and lorgely attributed to Dr. Hector's energy end ability. That position would, he contended, raise New Zealand in the estimation of the general public, and stimulate themselves to further endeavors in industrial pursuits, as well as scientific attainment. He moved the reply, whioh was an echo of the speech. Mr Ftotok seconded the motion, and he congratulated the previous speaker on his return to political life. It was satisfactory to find the position of Native affairs such as they were. To a great extent this satisfactory state of affairs was due to the firm and enlightened course pursued by Mr Bryce while he was in office. He also paid a similar tribute to the good offices of the Native Commissioners, and congratulated them upon the release of the Native prisoners. They all felt that these prisoners were being exceptionally treated without being guilty of any crime, but they had to bear in mind that the ciroumstanaes of their case were altogether exceptional. He concurred with the previous speaker in the necessity that existed for great care being taken in concluding any arrangement with companies as the contractors for a railway. He believed that muoh larger redactions remained to be made in the Civil Service. The railway returns were most satis • factory, and went to prove the vast undeveloped resources of the coloay. His Excellency must have been well pleased with the reception whioh he met with in his recent visit through the colony. He turned with satisfaction to the expressions that it was only with God's blessing that they could expect to succeed in their undertakings. At the same time, he acknowledged that it was a duty incumbent upon them to do their best towards promoting that means. Sir Quo. Gebt said that be was disappointed with the Governor's Address. What they had to consider was whether the policy »et forth in the Address was adequate to the circumstances of the colony. The Address was not adequate to these oiroumstanoes. He would tell them what the Address ought to have contained to meet these oircumstances. The steady progress of the colony was not due to the measures of the Government. The fact was tbot these measures tended to retard the national progress. He denied that public oonfidenoe had been increased, and although tirade had revived, the cause was that the people now knew they had obtained suph liberal measures. He denounced the imprisonment of the Maoris as a most unjust procedure. Then they had been congratulated on the sale of the Waimate Plains. Who benefited by that sale but the Colonial Treasurer and his Taranaki friends ? A great injustice hod been done for the purpose of enriching these men. The more distant ssttlers ought to have been relieved from such a burden as the New Plymouth harbor. But no attempt was made in that direction. How could he rejoice in view of such a state of matters. It was an insult to ask them to rejoice under suoh oiroumstanoes. A groat deal had been said about the Intercolonial Conference. What hod that conference done for them ? Its only outcome appeared to be the Chinese Bill. Surely they could frame a Bill without the intervention of aa Australian conference. Then they were told that the leases of certain runs would fall in shortly. He asked why these leases had not fallen in long ago ? It was the fault of the gentlemen on the Government benchos. Suoh boing the case how was he to know that there was any security in the promise now given. The Government had by their past actions as individuals ruined the landed estate of Canterbury, and what confidence could they have in the honesty of the professions now made. He could not trust the persons who had already abused the public trust so flagrantly, to do what was right in the future. He scouted the talk about renewed confidence, and charged the Government with having industriously circulated reports to the prejudice of the oolony. The statement made by the Colonial Treasurer had caused widespread alarm. He referred to the letter from Sir Julius Vogel, reeently published, in support of what he said. He did not believe that any large reduction had in reality been made in the expenditure. He found that the deficiency in the publio accounts for the past year amounted to £259,000. He could see no cause for joy in that state of things. The whole tendenoy of the taxation imposed was to relieve the rich, tho holders of large estates, and cast it on tho shoulders of the poor and the struggling. Ho oould tell them that they would yet have to revert to tho system of a land tax suoh as his Government had imposed. That done they would have to out up the large estates that had been given away. One large estate, Paterere, had been given away since last they met. " He believed it had been illegally dealt with, and that a system of taxation would have to be resorted to which would have the effact of breaking up suoh estates. If these estates were properly dealt with they would have ample funds to defray all tho cost of hospitals, oharitable aids, and other suoh proposals as those mentioned in the Governor's address. Nothing could have been more unfair than the 10 per coat, reduction on the income of civil servants. It was nothing short of taking from persons who could not resist the taking away. Was it fair then for the Governor to speak of congratulation under these circumstances. He said no. They ought rather to mourn that the Governor was made to say that he trusted God, in His goodness, would maintain the stability of these institutions. He would say that he trusted God, in His goodness, would overthrow suoh institutions. These institutions did not deserve to bo made stable ; they were abominable and detestable. He believed that the wish from North to South of New Zealand was that these institutions might be overthrown. G reat wealth had been given to a few, and much misery to the many. The great omission of the speech was that no allusion was made to the question of self-government. If no measure of that kind were'attempted, he himself would introduce suoh a measure. What he said on that score was that two or three counties should be grouped together and made into one, their powers being similar to those of the old" provincos. By that means they would lessen tho power of the General. Assembly. By that means they would confer on the districts the blessings of local self-government and theroby enrich them by giving them „. control over their own revenues : and in proi,\ portion to population, endowing them from -rtithe general rovenue. He already had given i it aa his opinion that one Chamber was all that was necessary for the good government bl New Zealand. In that opinion he was more than ever fortified by recent authorities elsewhere. If not, he would have the second

Chamber elective in its charaoter. He was resolved that the opinion of New Zealand as a whole should be taken as to his proposals for looal self-government, and would lose no time in bringing in his Sill. Mr Wakefibld said that the previous I speaker, instead of throwing now light on the subjects of the day, had raked up old sores, and otherwise given a most improper tone to their debate at this early period of the - session. Ho felt sure the speech had not ] expressed the view of one stogie individual. It had been inspired, not from above, but i from below. They had been told that such measures would bo passed, and such other | things would be done. Suoh language should have come from one enjoying the confidence ot the House and the country, whereas he (Sir G. Grey), stood amongst them, solitary and alone, after having been ejected from office which he had abused. Indeed he questioned very much if he enjoyed the confi dance of a single member, even of that seleot cirole over which he onco reigned. They were congratulated in the Governor's speech upon what they one and all know were facts, not congratulated upon something that might possibly occur. As a sample of Sir G. Grey's blunders, the member for Grey and Bell had been stigmatised as having aided the New Plymouth Harbor Board scheme for the purpose of benefiting his own property, whereas the fact was that that soheme had not a more bitter opponent in the House than the member in question. He thought it was quite necessary that the question of New Plymouth Harbor should be discussed, but not in the vindiotive spirit adopted by the previous speaker. He was not in favor of approving of the measures alluded to in the Governor's speech until he saw them, at the same time he deprecated the idea of condemning them until they saw what they really contained. He was astonished at the statement of the previous speaker that the Legislative Oounoil had been filled by the friends of the present Government. Now the faot was that wh en Sir G. Grey was in office he put no fewer than seven gentlemen into that Chamber, and the present Ministry have abstained from calling a single individual to that House since they were sworn in. Sir George Grey had a singular idea of what was truth, and that faot itself was a striking example of the faot. He agreed in the remark that there was a great deal in the Governor's speech for oongratulation. Two years ago the state of affairs would hardly have warranted them in anticipating that there would have been oause for suoh a speech. Begarding Native affairs, he differed from oortain steps they had seen fit to follow. He now frankly admitted that the results had proved that the course pursued was the right one, and that his opinions on the subject had been wrong. Ho contrasted the previous Native question with the present, and drew a flattering picture of the latter. There was one blot whioh atlaohed itself to the administration. He referred to the Bill under whioh the Native prisoners were kept in custody. Last session they were given to understand that the Natives would hardly be imprisoned at all, and the term of- detention would be limited to three months at the utmost. On that assuranoe they passed the Bill. Unfortunately the term of imprisonment at the last moment was left open on the understanding that it wbb merely a formal provision. What did they find ? The Maoris had been imprisoned three times longer than was originally contemplated. In hu belief no necessity existed for the lengthened detention of these men in prison. He was aware that they had been well treated, but that to bis mind was no great compensation. These men ought not to have been looked upon as prisoners at all. That was a blot on the present Administration whioh he hoped would be more fully explained. . They had been told that the only result of the conference had been the Chinese Bill. The faot was that a Bill of that kind had been introduced last session and thrown out. In hie opinion the conference had been disappointing in the very last degree ; it was an absurdity from beginning to end. Until they saw the measure for constructing the railways by public companies, they oould not express any opinion on the point. As he understood it, the Government did not intend to stop proceeding themselves with publio works Government must go on with railway works, but at the same time they would have to do so in a rational way. If they did so boldly, he believed they would command the support of the House. Ho was disappointed that the speech contained no reference to the question of local self government. What they wanted was local government. The introduction of a Bill suoh as that proposed by Sir George Grey would only damage the cause of looal government. He trusted that the Government would take that subject in hand. He was disappointed that the Government had not already given them some assurance on the subject. When abolition was carried they were assured that the whole work of looal Government would be reconstructed in three months. That assurance had not been made good, and op to the present time the whole question had remained in utter oonfusion. He had voted for abolition, but if he could have foreseen the present state of affairs he would not have so voted. He denounced the subsidies, stating that in reality they had debauched the districts. It had enabled certain counties to roll in wealth, while others were left literally destitute. Promise after promise had been made that this state of matters would be remedied, but down to the present time none of these promises had been made good. The country would not stand treatment of that kind, and he had to warn the Government against pursuing the oonrse they had done longer. The present state of matters tended to make them local in their operation instead of regarding the publio interest of the oolony as a whole. They had to go to that House for every little bit of a road or a bridge that might be wanted. Not until that state of affairs was reversed would they rise equal to the occasion and leave their petty local jealousies behind them, and betake themselves earnestly to the work of the State. The present was a most opportune period for dealing with a question of this kind. They were enjoying a period of political tranquillity. The Opposition was most reasonable, and the majority on the side of the Government well assured. He hoped they would take advantage of this state of affairs, and set about honestly to grapple with this most important question. If the Government did not bring in a measure of the kind, he hoped some member would bring in suoh a measure, and if it was at all reasonable and statesmanlike in its proposals, he would support it. He believed that the measure could not be in safer hands than that of the Government, if they would only apply themselves to it with the. same careful consideration they had disployed in connection with other branches of the administration.

Dr. Wallib considered the speech dull, vague, and unsatisfactory. It neither guided, instructed, nor diverted them. It dealt a fatal blow to party Government, and that was what they had all along been aiming at. The framers of the speech appeared to have been destitute of political prinoiple. They were neither Liberals nor Conservatives, but just a bit of each by turns, but neither long. Their inconsistency was most apparent. The Hon. Mr Hall of the Upper House was a different person altogether from the present Premier, and the Colonial Secretary, a gentleman returned on the Bible-in-schoola ticket, now appeared before them as the head of an educational system quite different in its aims and objects. He admitted that Native affairs tended to peace, but contended that it was the Grey Government that laid the foundation of that satisfactory relationship, and the present Government were merely walking in the footsteps of their predecessors. Tho Chinese Bill was merely a fißhing for popularity, while the more important questions dealt with by the Australasian Conference were never once mentioned. The omission of all reference to local

government was most marked. Colonel Tbimblk, in reference to the imputations made against Taranaki in connection with the New Plymouth Harbor soheme, said that he had done his best to prevent that expenditure while it was possible to do so. He gave a long history of the scheme, and showed that the country settlers in Taranaki had been generally opposed to it. He entirely approved of the abolition of the law of entail, and thought that Sir George Grey showed himself a thorough Tory on this point. Ho considered that it would be dangerous to make the Legislative Oounoil elective, as it would then be too powerful. Major Atkinson had not in any way exaggerated tho gravity of the financial position when he took office.

Mr Bunny moved the adjournment of the debate.

The Spbakbb, on the voices, said the ayei had it.

Mr Speight oalled for a division on the adjournment, whioh was carried.

The House rose at 11.65 p.m.