THE PREMIER AT LEESTON.

Globe, Volume XXIII, Issue 2231, 27 May 1881, Page 3

THE PREMIER AT LEESTON.

The Hon. John Hall addressed his constituents at the Town Hall, Leestos, last night. There was a very good attendance, the hall being filled at an early hour.

On the motion of Mr Hall Mr W. J. G, Bluett took the chair. The Chairman briefly introduced Mr Hall, stating that he had once more come forward to meet them as their member. He hoped the meeting would be conducted in a fair and impartial manner, as all Locston meetings were. Any questions which might be desired to be asked of Mr Hall, he would be happy to answer at the end of his speech. He now begged to ask Mr Hall to address them. [Cheers.] Mr Hall, on rising, was loudly applauded. He spoke as follows :—Mr Chairman and Gentle men, before proceeding to treat of questions of general colonial importance, I wish to say a few words upon a matter of local interest to this district. 1 received, a short time ago, an application from the North Hakaia Board of Conservators, and also a memorial signed very largely by residents in the district, asking me to promote the passing of a Bill to enable the members of that Board to be elected, instead of being partly nominated and partly elected, as at present. I have done so. The Bill is drafted, and is in your hands. I shall be very glad, when I know the wishes of the district generally, to do my best to promote the passing of the Bill through Parliament ; bnt I understand that there is some difference of opinion upon the subject. [A Voice—“ A strong difference.”] I must, therefore, ask you to endeavour to make up your minds as to what yon want before you ask me to take any action in the matter. When that is done, I shall be glad to devote my best energies to the passing of this measure. [Hear, hear.] Now. turning to general matters: I am not at all anxious for anything like a platform controversy with other members who have recently spoken, bnt if I were not to notice a speech lately delivered at the Thames by the gentleman who is now said to be the leader of the Opposition, I might perhaps be accused of discourtesy. I should also, 1 think, allow to remain on the public mind a wrong impression as to the part taken by one of my colleagues, the Hon. Major Atkinson, in the matter of an advance of public money to Patoa, which is part of the district that be represents. X must, therefore, refer to the speech of Sir George Grey on that subject. Upon that occasion, Sir George Grey quoted from the report of a meeting held by Major Atkinson at Patea, from which it appeared that the chairman of the Harbor Board, who contested the Egmont seat in the Greyite interest against Major Atkinson, had visited Wellington to obtain a loan of money for his Board; and it also appeared that the gentleman in question applied to Major Atkinson, as member for the district for assistance, and Major Atkinson told him in a jocular way—“Go to Sir 6. Grey, tell him yon are contesting the seat against me, and yon will no doubt get the money.’’ Upon this tir George Grey expresses great indignation, declares the whole proceeding to be a diabolical plot, and although the report of the speech is not very clear, loaves an impression that, practically, the sum of .£IO,OOO had actually been improperly given to the Patea ] Harbor Board by Major Atkinson. These are the words which Sir George Grey uses—“ I I firmly believe that those sums of money have been applied to promote the views of the members of the Ministry and their friends, and I cannot bring myself to think that this is not the first transaction of the kind that has taken place. ’ ’ This was, of course, leading the audience to understand that the Ministry which was guilty of this improper transaction was the Ministry of Major Atkinson. After dilating at some length upon this question, Sir George Grey declares it is a moat disgraceful affair, and states, “ Now let ns drop the curtain upon this disgraceful transaction.” Now, I do not think it quite fair to drop the curtain at that particular moment. [Laughter.] It should be kept raised rather longer, in order to enable us to see what the transaction in question really was. The facts are these la the month of July, 1879, the Grey Ministry was in its death struggle. A vote of want of confidence was pending, which it was pretty well known would be carried, and that a general election would then be at hand. At this time Mr Sherwood, the chairman of the Harbor Bo rd, who contested the election for Egmont as a Greyite candidate against Major Atkinson, comes to Wellington to obtain money for for his Harbor Board. On the 28th of July ho applies to Sir George Grey in writing for an advance of .£2500 from the annuities department. You know, many of yon, no doubt, what time it generally takes to receive an answer to an application to the Government in Wellington (especially when it is an application for money. But upon this occasion an unusual result followed. Mr Sherwood applies on the 2Sth of Jnly, and on tho very same day this fortunate opponent of Major Atkinson gets a reply to say ho can have tho money, provided the law officers consider the debentures he has to offer aro a legal security. The law officers, however, declare that it was not a proper

security; that they cannot recommend the money being advanced upon them, and he is notified to that effect. On the 29th July, the 1 vote of no confidence in the Grey Ministry was passed. On the next day, the 30th July, this opponent of Major Atkinson time to the Postmaster-General, and his previous communioations with the Government appear to have been of so encouraging a character that, instead of £2500, he now applies for £IO.OOO. You will, I am sure, agree that those communications must have been very encouraging—in fact, he says in his letter to the Postmaster-General that Sir George Grey received his proposition most favorably. And he boldly asks for .£IO,OOO. Again, remembering the pace at which Government Departments usually answer letters, is it not remarkable that on the next day this gentleman should get a reply from the Government, saying ha can have the whole of the £IO,OOO. If Sir George Grey denies any one of those facts, I will prove to yon every one of them. | Applause.] Now, then, can we believe that the remarkable success of Major Atkinson’s opponent ia obtaining this money was entirely nnoonreeted with the fact that he was to bo a candidate for the district in support of the Grey Government? Knowing, as we do, the time it usually takes to receive an answer from a Government department; remembering that Mr Sherwood was opposing Major Atkinson as a supporter of Sir George Grey ; remembering, as we do, that it was of great importance to his success to be able to go back with a promise of £IO,OOO, and that quickly, in order that ho might begin his canvass ; and seeing as we cannot fail to see, that the £IO,OOO was granted to him with unusual rapidity; I ask, can we believe that all these circumstances were a mere innocent coincidence ? I say that if so, the coincidence must be considered miraculous. To my mind, the transaction is not creditable to the Government of the day. The speaker at the Thames goes on to denounce in very strong language the system under which such transactions are possible, and therefore we might fairly expect that during the two years Sir George Grey held office he had done something to abolish the system which ho declares to be so improper—he oonld have done it with a stroke of his pen. But he did nothing whatever; he left that system which ho so much condemns in full vigor during the whole of the time during which he held office, and when we came into office we found it so. What took place then? Soon after we took office Mr Stevens moved in the House that the question of the investment of the trust funds bs referred to the Public Accounts Committee. The proposi- i

tion was supported by myself as Premier, and carried, and during the last session of Parliament the Public Accounts Committee passed a resolution recommending that the trust funds should be invested in Government securities only. This would obviate any possibility of giving them away to Town Boards or Harbor Boards. [A Voice—" Hirer Boards."] Tes, or River Boards. [Laughter. ] Although this resolution was not binding on the present Government, we have strictly conformed to it ever since. [Applause ] Therefore the system to strongly denounced by Sir George Grey, and which ho condemned as such an improper use of the hard earnings of the poor man—the poor man, it will have boon observed, is always brought out on these occasions—this system so energetically denounced, was left in full vigor by the immaculate Government of Sir George Grey, and was put an end to by the wicked Government of Mr Hall. Now, gentlemen, that you are in possession of these facts, I am quite willing that the curtain should drop. I think it was ill-advised of Sir Gsorge Grey, for his own sake, that he raised it at all. [Applause.] I ought to notice before I leave these speeches, a remarkable made in that at Coromandel, in which Sir George enunciated a political doctrine, against which I beg to emphatically protest. In answer to a question on that occasion he spoke ns follows :—“ No Government conld rise superior to the temptation of according that patronage to friends. The best way of effecting a cure would be to adopt the American system,which gave each Government a right of turning out presumedly hostile officials, and filling their places with men more friendly disposed when in office." Th it is to say, that it would be a right and proper thing in New Zealand that civil servants should ba kept in office—not because they were useful and valuable servants, but because they were the politi.-al friends of the Ministry of the day. I sincerely hope that this proposal will have no chance of being adopted in this_ colony. A more demoralising political practice, and one which is more deplored by all wise Americans, does not exist. There are many other statements in these speeches which would be as easily disposed of as those I have alluded to, but it is not necessary forme to refer to them. I cannot, however, help deploring the tendency which Sir George Grey displays to constantly depreciate the future of this oolonj, and to breed ill-feeling between one class of the community and another. It is exceedingly unfortunate, and can only be the outcome of a diseased imagination, or a love for reckless platform oratory. I will now turn to the speech made by Mr Macandrew, the leader of the Opposition last session, at Port Chalmers, which I onght to notice, considering that gentleman’s position. I am sorry to find that speech breathing the same spirit which has helped to bring this colony into its financial difficulties. Summarised, the propositions of Mr Macandrew are as follows:—Go ahead with the vast railway scheme of 1878; at once resume immigration ; repeal the property tax, and put nothing in its place; and provide for everything by the issue of Government paper money. Now, it is excessively unfortunate that men in Mr Macandrew’a position should propound doctrines like these. I quite believe he desires the advancement »of _ the _ colony, but I am equally certain that if his proposals were given effect to, the advancement would be by jjiant strides to an inevitable catastrophe. I would not refer to the proceedings of the last session, as they have frequently been discussed by honorable members on occasions like the present, were it not that there appears to prevail a very important popular delusion respecting it. It has been generally asserted —in the first instance by members of the Opposition—that the session was a very barren one, and was made so by the large flood of Bills which the Government introduced. If the Government had attempted a large amount of legislation I should certainly not be ashamed of the fact, for there is really much legislation to do; and it appears to me that the chief business of a Legislature is legislation. I deplore the excessive amount of time the Legislature , chose to give, as X think, to other and less important subjects. But is it a fact that the Government did introduce an extraordinary number of measures last session ? I have a return, which I [asked from the officers of the House, in order to clear up the matter. Setting aside Bills sent down by the Legislative Council, as to which I have no particulars, I find that the number of Bills introduced into the House by the Government during the session of 1877, was 67; in 1878, 60; in 1879, when the work was divided between two sessions, 72 ; and in 1880, when, as yon are told, the number was excessive, how many do you think there were ?—IOO, at least, you will no doubt suppose—but in fact there were only 61. So that the Government introduced to the House last session a smaller number of Bills than the average for four sessions, _ I have also obtained an analysis of the manner in which the time of the House really was occupied, and it shows exactly what I expected—that much of that time was not given to the consideration of Bills, but to a multitude of miscellaneous motions of comparatively trifling interest or value. The motion for going into Committee of Supply when any amendment may be moved was intercepted no less than sixteen times. The time occupied on those occasions varied of course ; but in one instance, at least, it occupied two days and a half. In addition to this, one whole fourth of the session was occupied in discussing a vote of want of confidence in the Government, which from the very beginning everybody knew could not lead to any practical result. I quite admit that a large portion of the time of the last session was wasted, but it was so, not by a flood of Bills, but by a flood of talk. [Laughter.] I entirely deny, however, that the session was a barren one. Amongst its minor results was the passing of Acts which consolidated and swept off the statute book no less than ninety-two old Acts. In respect of electoral reform a measure was passed providing for the trial of election petitions by the Supreme Court, instead of as hitherto by cornu ittees of the House, and thus removing, very properly I think, questions affecting the decision of who were elected members of the House to a tribunal not influenced in its decision by anything like party feeling. The tariff was amended chiefly by relieving from duty many raw materials which are required for colonial manufactures, and various measures of social reform were passed. There was _ an Act which, though short, was very important, for enabling effect to be given to the recommendations of the West Coast Commission—a Commission appointed, as yon will remember, to inquire into Native grievances on the west Coast. That Act enabled the Government to taks steps, which are now being taken, to carry out long-standing promises to Natives m that part of the colony—to make ample reserves for the nse of the Natives there—and to throw the rest of the land open for sale. In consequence of these steps, a large portion of the land has been thrown open and been sold, bringing a considerable sum into the and the land is now being settled hy industrious settlers. [Applause.] A further consequence of the working of this Act is that the Armed Constabulary—about which, and the cost of which, yon hear so much—is being gradually reduced. We have also been able to liberate more than onehalf of those Maoris who had been detained in prison, and 1 hope it will not be long before the remainder of them are sent to their homos. [Applause.] While speaking on this subject, I cannot omit to express my great regret at the loss to the colony through the resignation of the late Native Minister. Mr Bryce has himself told the story of his resignation, and I need not repeat it. Mr Bryce and his colleagues differed as honest men will differ : we

parted as friends, and with the greatest regret. I am sure that the colony will not soon forget the good work Mr Bryce did. [Applause ] He lot light into the abuses of the Native Department, and of the Land Purchase system, which 1 hope will render impossible the recurrence of such abuses. [Applause.] Ton may remember that in addressing you last year, I raid, that the work of the Commissions we had appointed, and which wore then being sneered at, would, as I believed, justify the action of the Governmo t. I say now, that that action has bsen amply justified. The outspoken report of the Civil Service Commission evoked a feeling in the House and the country which rendered possible the large retrenchment that has been effected. The report of the Railways Commission showed that the expenditure on some of the works proposed in the railway scheme of 1878 was unjustifiable, and it has been stopped. The Local Industries Commission collected, and thoroughly digested, a vast mass of information which has materially assisted the Government and the people of the colony in establishing and developing local industries, which has recently been effected to a much larger extent than is generally known, I repeat therefore, that the appointment of the several commissions was justified, and the result has amply proved this. [Applause J During the session of 1880 very full consideration was given .to the financial condition of the colony, which consideration and its results would alone have been sufficient to save the session from any charge of barrenness. The most careful examination, and the fullest discussion, proved that the statement made by the Colonial Treasurer, Major Atkinson, on taking office, as to the alarming financial position of the country was not only not an exaggeration, but was within the truth. Printed, audited, and certified accounts have been laid before Parliament, which place that fact beyond a doubt. The Colonial Treasurer has been charged | with having, for merely party purposes, made the position of the colony appear worse than it really was; and it has been alleged that he thns depreciated the credit of the colony in the English market. In the first place, I do not believe that any truth should be withheld, even if thegivingit forth should temporarily depreciate the credit of the colony. I believe that when speaking the truth is followed up as it was in this case, it cannot permanently injure the credit of any country. [Hear, hear] It It is perfectly trne that when our position was first made known —when the alarming gap between income and expenditure was first pointed out—there was a depreciation of onr securities ; but when it become known how the Government and the colonists had faced the difficulty and grappled with it—when it was recognised that we had practically bridged the great gap—then the value of our securities began again to rise, and now they are quoted in the London market higher than they were before. [Loud applause.] But what would injure the credit of the colony was such disparagement of its prospects and misstatements as to its present condition, and such wild proposals for expenditure and paper money, as we have recently had in speeches from the Thames and Fort Chalmers. The session of 1880 was also notable tor the progress made in the retrenchment of public expenditure. The estimates were introduced at an unusually early period of the session; this gave the House time for a full consideration of them, and the Bouse took advantage of it. It has been said that retrenchment was forcel upon the present Government. But that waslscarcely doing justice to the Government. We brought down certain proposals for redaction of expenditure, stating that we believed considerable further reductions could be made daring the recess, and if the House passed those estimates we would devote ourselves to effect that farther retrenchment after it had risen. The House desired, however, to see the estimates farther reduced before they were passed, and the Government fell in with this view. But the Government has not confined itself to the redactions effected then. We have been working at further reductions ever since, and a painful, unpalatable task it has been. Wo have succeeded in effecting retrenchments which will enable us, as stated by Major Atkinson, to present estimates to the next session of Parliament smaller by nearly £250,000 than were the estimates presented last year. Now, as I have said, the task of retrenchment is an unpopular one. At first sight, it may appear that it is not so, but, although in the abstract the public highly approves of it, every particular case of redaction is strenuously resisted by the locality affected. 1 will give you tan amusing instance of this. I mentioned one in this province last year, and 1 will now refer to another in another part of this island. Th ere is a town —I need not name —situated on a railway line. , Its total postal revenue is rather over £59 a year, and its telegraphic revenue something over £4O. This town possesses at the Railway Station a Post and Telegraph office. When, however, I became Postmaster-General, I found that a new building for Post Office purposes was nearly completed, at a cost of £6OO, about a quarter of a mile from the other office, and that a second staff was to be appointed, at a cost of about .£l7O a year. That was considered to be quite the correct way ot spending public money. I objected to it altogether. The district was represented in Parliament by an energetic member, who brought strong pressure to bear on the Government to have the arrangement carried out. I was also assailed by petitions pud remonstrances from the district. I persisted in objecting to such a waste of public money, and to provide against its being done hereafter I had the building removed to a place nearly 100 miles away, where it was really wanted. [Applause.] Thereupon the townsfolk were so indignant at my economy that they burned me in effigy. [Laughter.] On the subject of the property tax 1 would not now have said anything, had it not been for some remarks which have fallen from Mr Ormond and Sir George Grey, and which are calculated to leave a wrong impression. Mr Ormond, in a speech at Waipawa, is reported to have stated that the tax had been imposed on the people of the colony without their having hod an opportunity of being consulted. I entirely dissent from that statement. At the last general election there was hardly any question more freely discussed than the relative merits of the property tax and land tax. I entirely deny that the property tax was imposed without the people having had a chance of saying whether or not they approved of it. [Applause.] Sir George Grey stated at the Thames that he has been compelled by the property tax to dismiss some men —he did not state how many—and that is made to appear as a good reason why the property tax must be considered a bad tax. Bnt if Sir George Grey’s property is so large, that a penny in the pound, upon it is equal to the wages of say two or three men, I can see no reason why he should not pay his share of the general taxation. I pay twice as much under the property tax as I did under the land tax; bnt I do so cheerfully, because I know that now my wealthy neighbours are also bearing their fair share of the burden ot taxation, which they did not do under the land tax. The most serious statement in this Thames speech is that in which Sir G. Grey contends that the Ecglish holders of New Zealand bonds should be charged with the property tax. He did not say how much, but on a previous occasion he proposed to raise £370,000 a year in.this way. He states that when he mentioned this in the House I looked at him with horror. That is perfectly true. Let ns see what are onr obligations to the English bondholders. The case stands thus : The colony of New Zealand, on condition of a certain amount of money being lent to it by London capitalists, agreed to pay to those lenders every half year a certain sum by way of interest. That was the bargain that was entered into, and a bargain is a bargain all the world over. Now, it is proposed, because onr necessities are large, that we should, say to these creditors, who are receiving their interest in London, “ Gentlemen, you must receive so much less than we agreed to give you,” That appears to mo to be absolutely dishonest—a broach ot a bargain : it appears to me to be repudiation. | Hear, hear.] We have a right to tax people upon their incomes in New Zealand, but if we bargain with people in London to pay them a specific rate as interest every year, that bargain we are bonnd, as honest men, to keep. [Applause.] I.say further, that to tax the English bondholders would be worse than a crime—it would be a blunder, because those bondholders and capitalists generally would ask —“ If this New Zealand Government can to-day stop or refuse to pay any portion of agreed interest —5 per cent, or 10 per cent., as may be — what is to prevent its stopping 20 or 30 per cent to-morrow? How are wo to know, no matter what the colony undertakes to pay. how much it will really pay P” Such a state of things would, I say, effectually damn our credit in London, and would coat ns a hundred times more through loss of credit than any amount wo might contrive to filch from our creditors. [Applause.] Isay, also, that it is nothing less than a colonial misfortune that such doctrines should be propagated by men holding positions such as that of the late Prime Minister of New Zealand. [Applause.] When last addressing you in this hall I stated the principles which the Government thought should prevail with regard to purchasing Native laud. I showed the scandalous manner in which sums appropriated for this purpose were squandered ; the demoralising effect which the previously existing svstem had upon the Natives, and the quantity of worthless, unsaleable laud it threw into the hands of the Government. I stated that the Government proposed as quickly as possible to withdraw from that system, and that policy of withdrawal has for some time been steadily pursued. In cases where we found that purchases had been nearly completed, wo have completed several transactions, and wo are endeavoring to complete others. In other cases, where considerable sums had been advanced, but the negotiations were far from complete, we have, with the consent of the Natives concerned, obtained, or we are obtaining, concessions of land equivalent in value to the amount of advances, and we are releasing the remainder of the blocks from the Government embargo. Whero very small sums only have been advanced, we are, with the consent of the Natives, abandoning negotiations altogether. I hope

that in six or nine months all negotiations of this kind in which the Government are involved will be wound-np, and an end put for ever to the system of Government purchase of Native lands. _ [Applause.] With regard to the future, we believe that it is a great misfortune for the North Island, and, indeed, for the whole of the colony, that large tracts of land, the property of Native owners, should be left unoccupied and unused. We believe that the amplest reserves should be made for the use of the Native’, and bo effectually secured to them, and that then there should be no such interference ns to prevent Native lands coming into the possession of Europeans, being beneficially occupied, and thus adding to the wealth of the country, while bearing a fair share of the country’s burdens, which at present it does not do. [Applause.] I had intended to say something respecting what is called Fatotero, of which you have no doubt he »rd a great deal, and particularly as to the iniquitous way in which, as it is said, the Government have dealt with that block. Time will not, however, allow mo to enter upon the question ; but I will say this—lf Sir George Grey will next session move for the re appointment of the Committee he obtained last session, but did not make use of, to inquire into the whole question, I will second the motion. I am most anxious that [ this should be done ; and I will also that the circumstances under which an adjoining block has been negotiated for by Messrs Howard and Dilworth shall also be included in the inquiry which the committee are to make I will now pass to a different subject, A Mr Bradlaugh, a member of the House of Commons, has, in his place in the House, been patting questions and making charges against the Government of New Zealand, with regard to their treatment of the Maori prisoners. He complained of their illegal detention, unjust treatment, cruel and harsh usage. He has done this, as we know, at the instigation of men who are opponents of this Government, and whose characters ho does not know. Ho was not encouraged by the Colonial Office, which pointed out that the management of Native affairs rested with the colonists. The Colonial Office promised, however, to ask for information, and it has been I cheerfully given. It is now some years since the management of Native affairs, with all its responsibilities and burdens, was transferred to—l might almost say was imposed upon the colonists of New Zealand. We have tinea then striven to discharge those responsibilities, and we have borne those burdens without a murmur. [Hear, hear.] That those burdens have not been light, the public debt and your knowledge of the history of the colony will amply testify. But as the responsibilities are enrs, so also must be the power and the control. [Applause.] It is my duty, as the head of the Colonial Government, to declare that, while possibly our management of the Natives may not have been without faults, we assert that it has been neither unjust nor ungenerous. The Natives are exempted from much taxation to which all onr European settlers are subject. Onr laws have, in many oases, been adapted to their special circumstances. While wo bear these burdens and endeavor to show that wo rightly appreciate the responsibilities, the Government will not allow any interference with the management of the Natives on the part of any outside authority. [Loud applause.] It would bo unjust to the Europeans who are settled here, and a misfortune to the Natives themselves, if any such interference were admitted. [Applause ] It is most desirable, in every respect, that nothing should be done, or he permitted, that might lead the Natives to imagine that they have any other authority to look to for the redress of possible grievances than the Government of New Zealand. [Applause ] I have now to make a remark which I shall do with some hesitation, because it will be trenching upon delicate ground. As a rale, the name of the Governor of the colony should never be brought into a discussion of this kind, because bis actions are the actions of his Ministers; they are responsible, and if anything wrong is done, they should be blamed. Bnt the name of the Governor has been introduced into discussions on this Native question ; and, therefore, it is not only the right, but it is, I think, the dntyof Ministers to notice statements which they knowto bo nt just to the Governor. Ton may remember that, upon a recent occasion in Christchurch His Excellency distinctly declared bis acceptance of the principles of responsible government, as practised in this colony. Notwithstanding this, newspapers, both in this colony and the mother country, have stated that his Excellency has interfered unconstitutionally in the matters of the mission to Te Whiti and the release of the Maori prisoners; that be has brought unconstitutional pressure to bear upon his Ministers in connection with each of those matters. I state distinctly thattbat assertion is entirely untrue—[Applause]—that there is not a word of truth in it. It is wholly unfounded, and it is unjust to the Governor. There has been no departure from constitutional practice. The mission to Te Whiti was sent—the prisoners have been released or detained—on tlio apontonoonfl advioe of Ministers themselves, and they are responsible for those proceedings. [Applause.] I notice that in the Otago district an agitation has been commenced by Mr Vincent Pyke, a member of Parliament, on the assumption that the Government do not intend to do what they ought to do, or what he supposes they ought to do, with regard to the disposal of a large area of Crown lends, the pastoral leases over, which will expire in about two years. Such an assumption is entirely unfounded. What the Government propose to do is to classify those lands, before they are released from the existing tenures. Dividing them first into agricultural and pastoral, the agricultural portions will be surveyed into blocks for village settlement, for sale npon deferred payment, and for sale for cask. It is hoped that by bringing different classes of holders together they will assist each other. It was thought desirable not to have a community composed only of deferred payment holders and another composed of those who had purchased for cash and won'd require labour, but to give facilities for mutually beneficial assistance. With regard to the land not suited for agricultural purposes, it would be divided into two classes—the batter and the less good. The former would be surveyed into blocks of not exceeding 5000 acres, to be sold on what was known as tko pastoral deferred payment system; while the latter would be surveyed into smaller runs than at present, to be leased by auction in the ordinary way. I hope tbat this explanation will remove any impression that the Government do not intend fully and fairly to carry out the provisions of the law with regard to the land which has been referred to. I had intended to refer to the question of railway freights, bnt I find I must pass it over. I must, however, in justice to myself, express my great regret that circumstances have deprived the colony of the services of the late Minister for Public Works, Mr Oliver. It fell to his lot to take offies at a time when expenditure on public works had to be largely reduced. He had the unpopular task of redneiog it, and ke had the additional, and also unpopular task of raising more revenue than had been raised from existing public works. It should be said to his credit that while he found the railways of Now Zealand paying only per cent, on their cost, he, by economy in management and prudent administration, left them paying 3 \ per cent, on that cost. I add for myself that I know that in losing Mr Oliver the colony has lost an able, painstaking, and conscientious administrator. [Hoar, hear.] Now, with regard to the business of the next session. In the first place, the measures that were left incomplete last session will fnrnish a very considerable amount of work. There are, primarily, the measures of electoral reform. The Bill for regulating the conduct of elections will have to be re introduced, and, I trust, will pass without difficulty. The chief alterations which, as far as I recollect, that Bill will make in the existing law are an extension of the hours of polling, and the making of such provision as will satisfy voters of the absolute secresy of the ballot. I myself believe that it is now secret, bnt the impression prevails in some quarters that it is not so, and therefore any further precautions that can be taken to remove such prejudices will be taken. It will also probably bo provided that the elections shall all take place npon one day. [Hear, bear.] My friend Mr Gammaok cheers that remark. Will he help ns over this difficulty ? As the members of the Government represent constituencies in different parts of the colony, nr,A aa it will be very inconvenient for them to be all away from Wellington at the same time how are we as Ministers to get elected? [Mr Gammack —“ Oh, the Lords.”] I do not think my friend wonld be satisfied to be governed by the Lords. However, perhaps this difficulty is one which further experience may enable us to get over. Another Bill which failed to be passed last session was that for the prevention of bribery and corruption at elections. I wish to say frankly that I think this is the least pressing Bill of the series. So far as my own observation goes there is very little bribery and corruption at elections. [A voice—‘‘No, not here” —Laughter.] No; in this district I must say elections have been of a most satisfactory character, and as far as my information extends the charge of bribery and corruption cannot fairly be made against New Zealand gene rally. Still, prevention is better than care, and therefore an endeavour will be made to render the law as perfect as possible. One provision of the Bill will pro bably be the closing of pnblicbonscs during the hoars of polling. [Hear, hoar, No, no. and laughter.] I very much wish it wore possible to introduce some provision to punish the circulation of false statements and misrepresentations, evil speaking, lying, and slandering at onr elections, which ore now, I am afraid, con_ sidered somewhat excusable; bnt I cannot ho.n out any hope that we have found a enre for that sort of thing. The most important Bill of this series—in fact, the Bill of the session will be that for the re-distribntion of the representation. The principles upon which it will Ik baaed I stated last year. They are, that the primary consideration in allotting members should he population ; bnt that there are

' other circumstances that should not bo lef out of consideration, snch as the settled or the migratory character of the population. Then, as far as possible, we should avoid creating fresh boundaries, and avail ourselves of existing districts. We should endeavor alsonot to leave any important district of the colony entirely unrepresented ; and inasmuch as countrydistricts do not possess the same facilities for bringing political influence to boar as is possessed by towns or town districts, I think it would bo but right that, in proportion to population, a somewhat larger representation should be given to the former than to the latter. Precise or rigid equality in representation is not obtainable, and if it were, would I think really cause greater disadvantages than arise from a slight departure from such precise equality. I believe it is of the utmost importance that considerable minorities should not be unrepresented. That may be avoided or attempted to be avoided in n variety of ways. The manner in which we proposed last year to solve that difficulty to a certain extent was to have no constituency returning more than one member, so that certain sets of opinions not preponderating in one district, but which might preponderate in another, would get some representation. Smaller constituencies than we have had are, I think, desirable for this reason aleo, that the cost of contesting them is less. The cost of contesting elections in Christchurch or Wellington or ilunedin, or any other of our large towns, is now becoming a considerable evil, and should be as far as possible diminished. I think that would be done by the single-member constituencies. Yon will, perhaps, desire to know how these proposals will affect this particular district. So far as was shown by the retarns available before the late census the population of that part of the district south of tho Solwyn would have been sufficient to entitle it to one member. What will be the result when tho census is completed I cannot, of course, say, but I hope the position will ho still the same, because I recognise that the district has unity of interest, and if the population is sufficient under the provisions of the new Bill, it would be satisfactorily represented by one member. Sir George Grey has distinctly stated that this Bill will not pass ; I suppose that means not if ho can help it; but tho Government will do their utmost to pass this Bill, and in my opinion Parliament will fail in its duty if it does not, in what will be its last session, pass a Bill for the readjustment of the representation. Bat this readjnstment does not appear to me to be the only reform in the Legislature which is desirable. It has been alleged recently—in fact it was stated by Sir George Grey last session, that we ought to sweep away the nominated Governor with .£SOOO a year, and sweep away also the Legislative Council. [A. voice—Hear, hear.] I am glad to find that be has a representative here. Perhaps we shall hear some reasons for the proposal. This doctrine has been again enunciated at tbe Thames—that it is desirable to abolish the Legislative Conncil, and to rely upon a single Legislative Chamber. The question of an elected Governor was I think dealt with last

year, and pretty well disposed of. I do not believe it is likely to be adopted by the people of this colony. With regard to a second Chamber it is my belief that in any country in which representative institutions exist a second Chamber discharges very useful—aye, necessary fnnetions. It is desirable that there should bo a cheek upon tha hasty action of the popular branch of the Legislature. In times of excitement, which will occur in a popular Chamber, its members might be hurried, under the influence of as. eloquent and unscrupulous leader, into action which, on more deliberate consideration, they would regret, and which the country, if it had an opportunity of expressing its opinion, would certainly not approve of. On those occasions a second Chamber exercises a most useful and moderating influence. It does not and ought not to permanently oppose the matnred opinion of the country, but it does postpone very often tbe decision of important questions until the House and the country have bad time for reflection, and so to come to a careful and deliberate decision. I object also to tbe abolition of a second Chamner, because the consciousness of tbe possession of absolute power by any man or by any set of men is injurious and dangerous. It is apt to bring about an overbearing and tyrannical mode of thinking and acting. As a great writer, Stuart Mill, well puts it, “The same reason which induced the Homans to have two Consuls makes it desirable that there should be two Chambers, namely, that neither should be exposed to the corrupting influence of undivided power.” The Legislative Conncil of New Zealand, I believe, has shown a due appreciation of its legitimate functions. It has time after time vastly improved our legislation. It has resisted no measures upon which the deliberate approval of the country has been expressed. It has on. more than one occasion saved the colony from dangerous proposals. I may instance the proposal made some years ago to sanction unlimited Provincial borrowing, and the proposal, of a comparatively rooent date, to give tho Maoris much larger electoral privileges than tho Europeans. Those proposals were rejected by tho Legislative Council, and the wisdom of their action is proved t>y the fact that those proposals have never been renewed. But while I say this I admit that the present constitution of the Legislative Council is not satisfactory. Members are chosen practically by the party leader of tbe day, and there may—there probably will—be a tendency to give greater weight to the exigencies of party than to the personal qualifications of the members appointed. Also, as the number of the members is not limited, it is possible that a headstrong Minister with a pliant Governor might remove the restraining influence of the Council at the very time when its nse to the country would be most valuable. For those reasons 1 believe that an alteration in the mode of appointment to the Legislative Council is desirable. [Hear, hoar.] The question is, however, a very difficult one. It should not be entered upon rashly, nor, if possible, bo dealt with in a time of excitement. The plan which I am most inclined to favor is one which was discussed in the House of Representatives on the motion of Mr Curtis two years ago. It ia that the number of members of tha Legislative Council should be half the number of the House of Eepresentatives; that as vacancies occur they should be filled up by election by tho House of Eepresentatives, and that the election should be by ballot, in order to deprive it as far as possible of anything like a party character; that as the Legislative Council would then bo limited, in tho event of a prolonged difference of opinion between the two Chambers, to prevent anything like a deadlock, the two Chambers should sit together, and so sitting should decide tbe difference in question by a majority of votes. Some such system as that would, I think, proservo for us the moderating influence of an Upper Chamber, and secure that Chamber being brought into hatmony with tho public opinion of the country. It would aleo. I think, have this advantage, that men who had made a name for themselves in tho colony by distinguished ability and high character, or by their services in Parliament, on the Bench, or in any other judicial capacity, would have a better chance of be’ng elected than they have now. No doubt to this, as to every proposal, objections can be taken. I am not at all stating that any resolution has been come to on the subject, but I am anxious that the ' question should bo considered, and considered at a time when there is no excitement in consequence of a conflict between the two branches of the Legislature, and when, therefore, there is probably the best prospect of our solving with success that most difficult problem which meets Colonial statesmen, namely, bow best to constitute a second chamber in a new and progressive country. Gentlemen, it ia ns yon know very often asserted for political purposes, that the land cf this country ia going to pass into a very few hands—that our great grandchildren will all he serfs for the benefit of a few landowners —they will cko out a miserable existence and so on—you know the old story. I believe that is pure moonshine. As a matter of fact, figures show and have shown that in New Zealand the ownership of land is more distributed than in almost any country of which we have an account; and in my opinion the circumstances of the colony rather tend towards the disintegration of large properties than towards their accumulation. I do not think, therefore, that is an evil which we have to fear. But tho law on the subject of land which we have brought with us to this colony from England is, no doubt, in cue respect very mischievous. It is possible under that law for a person to tie up property by what is called entail for a considerable number of years—to prevent its being sold or dealt with m a variety of ways. Ho may so tie it up in some cases for as long as a hundred years to come, and leave it so that it cannot be sold or dealt with, and therefore cannot be improved or beneficially occupied, as it ought to be. T hat is an evil It is an evil to the land of tho country, and it’ does no good whatever to the owner. Now when this Government find ft, practical evil they do not go about the country weeping and wailing about it. but they sot to work to find a practical remedy ; and having arrived at the conclusion that the law of entail is an evil, we intend to propose to Parliament tho abolition of tho law of entail—[Cheers]—and to onsnro that no land shall be unsaleable except, perhaps, during the minority of tho then owner, and that all lands shall bo capable of being freely dealt with and used for tho best purposes. I think that will be an improvement worth all the declamation wo have heard on the subject of land for a considerable time past. [Hear, hear.] I wish to warn yon, gentlemen, against a proposal which may possibly be submitted to the colony before long—something which will be called a comprehensive financial scheme, baited with offers to spend largo suras in public works, and involving the sale of our railways. I have reason to believe a proposal of that kind may be made. I hope yon will turn a deaf ear to it, for depend upon it such proposals will be framed in the interests not of the colony, but of the capitalists from whom they will proceed. Our railways at tho present time are not so valuable as they will bo before many years are over. It is

most unlikely that any capitalist would give us anything like their protective value. It is most unlikely that they would bo worked by them as anything but a commercial speculation; whereas if they remain in the hands or the colony, they will always bo worked it is true to rotarn interest on the expenditure, bnt mainly in the interests of the development of tho resources of the colony. That is most likely to be done so long as the railways remain in the hands and under control of tho colonists themselves. I trust, therefore, that if any proposals of the kind I h:ivn indicated arc made they will not bo ontortained. [Hear, hear.] But there are Other proposalswith regard.to construction ot railways which are not open to tho same objection. You are, no doubt, aware that tho proportion ot the loan available for public works has now become exceedingly small. Tho expenditure, oven during tho last year, has necessarily been very large—to a very great extent in discharging liabilities which we inherited from tho previous Government, lot Mr Macandrow say what he may. 'Che amount left is insufficient to go on with many works which would bn of considerable public utility lines which have been authorised and in some canes commenced. Under these cii-oum-stances it is believed that companies would very probably undertake tho completion of certain railways on their own account, if they were assisted by tho Government with grants of laud to tho extent of a certain proportion of the cost of these works. Now, whore wo find ttmt the proposed lines run through tracts of ] a:u l which would not bo available for settlement unless made accessible by railways, and where companies, if assisted to a moderate extent with grants of land, would make them so available for settlement—where wo see littlojprospaot of their being completed out of tha present pecuniary resources of the colony—there I think we may consider favorably any proposals which may 'be made to us for completing railways upon that system. I believe that tho land wo would have loft after the completion of these lines would probably exceed in value that of the who.o which WO possess thereat the present time. It would, of courso. bo necessary that any scheme of that kind should bo surrounded with very careful conditions, framed to secure tho active settlement of tho land given. Of the Bills not pissed last year which will be introduced this year, is one for the management of hospitals and charitable aid. This, gentlemen, is a most pressing question at present. It is more pressing now oven than it was this time last year ; for now in many parts of the colony the Colonial Government is paying the whole coat of maintaining hospitals and providing charitable aid, while the actual management is in tho hands of the local bodies. In other parts of the colony voluntary associations are providing part of the cost. It is obvious that such a system as that cannot continue. Ton may remember that last year I stated that the Government proposed to divide the colony into districts which have a community of inlsrest in this particular subject; that the local governing bodies in thoss districts —County Councils, Hoad Boards, or Municipalities—were to provide half the cost of maintaining those institutions ; that the Government were to provide tho other halt; that the local bodies were to elect a board which should manage the expenditure on these objects. Substantially that will be the Bill which_ will be introduced this year. We shall by it have a local body responsible in It he district la every part of tha colony there will bo, as there is not at tho present time, some body responsible for tho maintenance of hospitals and for providing charitable aid in the district. Some alterations will bo made in the Bill in tho way of giving greater recognition and assistance to existing voluntary associations which are found in many parts of the colony. And it will also be proposed that, as we contribute halt of the expense, tho Government should appoint a certain number of tha members of the Board. A very important Bill, which last year, I am sorry to say, made little progress, will bo introduced without delay : that for regulating the licensing ot public houses. _ I explained last year the principle upon which this measure would bo framed, namely, to make tho law strict bnt not unjust to existing license holders ; to give local option with regard to new licenses —in other words, not to allow new licenses to bo granted in a district unless with the consent of the inhabitants of that district; bnt not to apply that principle to existing houses. Because wo do not think it just to deprive hollers of licenses who conduct their business well and respectably, and who by a long course of legislation have received an implied promise that they will not bo disturbed unless for misconduct. I say we do not think it fair to deprive such holders of their licenses without giving them compensation, and wa do not see our way to provide that compensation. I received a letter just before coming into tho hall, which I have hardly had time to read, in which tho writer asks ma to state to this mooting what tho mala points of the Licensing Bill are likely to be. I do not think I can explain those points any further than I have done. The gentleman writing tho letter wants to know how wo propose to deal with tho local option question, and ho asks also what probability is there of tha Bill being dealt with in Parliament this session or of any new Licensing JBill being passed. I should bo very glad if he could tell mo that, _ It is what lam anxious to know. I cannot give him any more information than I have done. There ia one question which has become an important one since last year, and which will have to bo dealt with in this BUI. It is tha increase of drinking establishmenta in some parts of the colony under tho guise of Working Men’s Clubs. Now, a bona fide Working Men’s Club ia an institution which I shall do my very host to support. But in some towns in tho colony those so-called Working Man’s Clubs are started not by working men, but very often by men who have actually been refused or have lost their license. They start •What they coll a Working Men’s Club, provide tha most easy aud trifling terms of admission, in fact, entirely evade the licensing law, and so carry on a liquor traffio without control, without any regulations, and without any license whatever. That appears to mo, gentlemen, from what I have seen in other parts of tho colony, to bo ono of the moat threatening evils at the present moment, and we propose to deal with it. After much oonsideration, it appears to us that the beat way of meeting the difficulty is to provide that all establishments for the sale of liquors, whether they are working men’s clubs or gentlemen’s clubs, or public-houses, shall take ont_ a and skill all be placed under police supervision. (Cheers.J In the year 1879 the Government introduced a Bill for restricting the influx of Chinese into this colony. Tho Bill did not pass; an! since then, as the number _ of Chinese ia tha colony has been diminishing and not increasing, tho question did not appear to be a pressing one. The small number of Chinese who are iu the colony now I do not think an ovU; in fact, they have been found a conveniS ce. But I strongly object to any large infusion of the Chinese element into the population of this colony. [Hear, hear.] I believe they bring with them habits and diseases which, if possible, should be kept out of the colony. We propose, therefore, to reintroduce on an early day of the session, tho Bill of 1879, which I may explain is almost the same as the existing law in tho colony of Queensland, and at tha late Conference of Delegates from tho several Australian colonies held in Sydney, was approved of aa a suitable measure, and will t e proposed to Parliament in the other colonies. We shall introduce that Bill at an early period of the session, and hope soon to see it passed into law. [Cheers.] Amongst other business for next session, I may mention that tho work of consolidating tho statutes has been going steadily on. and that Bills will be laid before Parliament for sweeping eighty of tho present Acts off tho Statute Book. If time permits, other questions of social importance will be dealt with_ after tho disposal of the more urgent ones to which I have referred. There are many questions that call for legislation—the regulation of fisheries, fencing, and a variety of subjects of that kind. I should have liked to speak to you to-night upon other questions, bnt time will not permit, and I must draw to a conclusion. 1 have indicated tho principal measures which tha Government will bring before Parliament. What their fate will be must depend in some measure upon the mode in which members on the Opposition benches think it right to conduct Parliamentary business. Wa are told now, gentlemen, that there aro two distinct political parties in the colony. I hope that is not us great n myth as. last year, the existence of the compact Opposition proved to be, of which we hoard so much before tho ssesion and saw so littio during tho session. It is true that on one aide of tha House a body of gentlemen were stated who, laying aside minor differences of opinion, supported tho Government in tho work of constitutional reform and in maintaining an economical and efficient administration To thoso gentlemen tho Government owes a debt of gratitude for their loyal and generous support, and not least for tho patience with which they refused to be drawn into wasting the time of the seseion by replying to long and numerous Opposition speeches. Gn tho other side of the House wo sow o body of gentlemen united as far aa I can see in nothing but opposition to tho Government, having no common political principles, no unity of purpose and action, none of the qualifications which would enable them to discharge the useful constitutional functions of an Opposition party, to render good service to the country, and to earn the respect of the people. ("Cheers.] I hope for better things during the session now to come. Wo are told that a gentleman of great influence is forthcoming ns the leader of the Opposition. We havo recently heard from him a partly new political programme. The planks of the platform ou which this Opposition ia to stand appear to bo—first, the abolition of tho Legislative Council and tho substitution of a single chamber; second, tho abolition of the Qaeenappointod Governor and tho substitution of an elective Governor; third, tho taxation of tho EngUsh bondholders to supply the necessities of tho New Zealand Treasury; and, fourth, tho

dismissal of all Civil servants whoso political I opinions do not coincide with thoso of the I Government of tho day. [Canghter and cheers.] and this, gentlemen, forsooth is called liberalism! I say that it is but a thinly veiled^ despotism of a roost oppressive and dangerous kind. [Cheers.] To this platform the late leader of tho Opposition, Mr Macandrew,proposes to add acouplo of planks. They aro—reverting to a lavish expenditure on pubic works, and the issue ot Government paper money. I call this national bankruptcy. The Government of Russia has bean called a despotism tempered by assassination. If this political rrogrammo is carried oat, tho Government ot New Zealand will bo a despotism tempered by national, bankruptcy. The| party with which I am associated have] not, and “° not| intend to nut forward any new platform From s. a We ask the people of New Zealand to judge us by our actions. Wo B*7 daring the eighteen months we have hell office we have amended the constitntion.of the colony by broadening and deepening the foundations ot political power. Wo have passed some measures and framed others for distributing that power on tho fairest practicable basis, and for preventing abuse iu its exorcise. Wo have faced a condition of finances than which nothing cou.d be more alarming, and by a careful reduction of expenditure and by increasing the public revenue wo have restored the colonial credit. Wo have stopped the cnaandoring of public money in tho Native Department, by which the Europeans woro being robbed and the Natives were being demoralised, Wo have extended to the best of our ability tho facilities for settlemen; upon the land. Wo have settled, and peaceably settled, many threatening Native difficulties. We have done our best to encourage by all legitimate moans tho development of such local industries as afford employment to the laboring population. Wo leave to others the task ot talking liberalism upon public platforms. Wo contend that we have fairly earned for ourselves the name of working liberals, and as such we ask ths House and the country to continue to us tho confidence which wo have hitherto en[The hon. gentleman resumed his sent amidst groat applause, having spoken for about an hour and forty minutes.] . . Tho Chairman—lf any gentleman wishes to ask Mr Hall a question, he will be quite ready to answer them. Aa time ia valuable, however, I hope they will bo put aa shortly as possible and to the point. Mr Ronnio—l should like to ask Mr Hall what benefit will be derived from tho expenditure of the .£I2OO for the passages to the colony of Messrs Grant and Foster, the Lincolnshire delegates, to come out here to buy land for Lincolnshire farmers ? Mr Hall—Let me explain tho position of this matter. Messrs Grant and Foster were deputed by n large body of tho farmers of Lincolnshire—one of tho best farming districts in England to come to New Zealand to see whether it, was a country suitable for the settlement of men of that class. [A Y O ; C0 _'< They should have paid their own expenses.”] They were persona of position and highly respected in their own locality, and their report, it was probable, would havo the effect, indeed, I may tall Mr Ronnie that it has had the effect of sending several settlers to New Zealand. Besides this, Messrs Grant and Foster have written one of the moat practical and interesting little works on Now Zealand and its resources as an agricultural country which has yet appeared, and this probably will have the effect of inducing tha settlement amongst us of a very desirable class ot settlers. That is the practical benefit of the expenditure spoken of by Mr Rennie. [Hear, hear.] , ~ _ , - Mr Rennie—Will it have the effect ot bringing these formers to settle on the land ? Mr Ball—Some farmers are coming ta_ settle on it. I do not know whether they are Lincolnshire farmers or othir farmers. The first instalment of payment for the land was only made a short time ago. . . Mr Lockhead-Can Mr Hall tell us what arrangements were made by the Government with reference to tho payment of this money ? Mr Hall—l really cannot say on the spur of the moment. I am speaking from memory and without book, but I believe it was an arrangement made in England, I am not certain on that point. , . . Mr Gammaok—Then you mean to say that they were paiddelegatos sentout by Mr Vogel. Mr Hall—As I have said, they were requested by certain Lincolnshire farmers to come out to seo whether this country was suitod_ to their occupation aa agriculturists ; and in view of tho good likely to be derived to the o lony by bringing it under the notice of the agricultural class as a desirable field for immigration, the Government agreed to pay the expenses of the delegates. [Hear, hoar.] Mr McLachlan—l should like to ask Mr Hall if he considers it right that the Government of which he is a member should offer bonuses for the encouragement of local industries such as tho production of butter and cheese when the products are a perfect drug in the market already? Does he not consider that the Government might as well offer a bonus for the production of wheat at Is 3d or 2s per bushel ? I think it is interfering with what tha Government havo no business to do. Let them stick to legislating for ns. Mr Hall—l understand the question to be : Why did the Government offer a bonus for the manufacture of cheese and butter in factories ? I say the reason ia ijhia : The manufacture of butter and cheese in factories is practically a new industry, and likely to provide a market by export which will rot be created in any other way. [Hear, hear ] flh) manufacture in factories of butter and cheese gives a guarantee of uniformity of quality which is necessary to ensure a ready acceptance in a foreign market. [Cheers.] It is a well-known fact that America, because of the factory system, is enabled to carry on a very large export trade to the English market, and we trust to arrive at the same result here. [Cheers.] Mr Atexr. McLachlan—l should like to ask if the Government intend to introduce game laws into Canterbury ? [A Voice—“ We have them already.”] Mr Hall—Does Mr McLachlan mean to ask whether the Government intend to alter the present law ? Mr McLachlan—l did not know we had any game law now, Mr Hall—l will answer the question by stating that tho Government do not intend to alter the present law. Mr Gammack—Mr Hall in his address has spoken of the intension of tha Government with respect to tha registration of electors, and I agree with him that it has broadened the boundaries of political power, but I don’t think the law is properly administered by the Governor in so far as the appointment of registrars goes. Will Mr Hall say if he is in favor of giving greater facilities for putting electors on the roll by appointing resident registration officers ? Mr Hall—Mr Gammaok can scarcely expect mo to reply to such a general question as this* If any case is brought under my notice where the present law is not properly administered I will endeavour to have it rectified, bnt I am not aware of tho existence of any such state of things. An Elector—ls Mr Hall of opinion that the .£SOO exemption from the property tax should be lowered ? Mr Hall—The Government does not intend to take any steps to reduce it. Mr Cunningham—l have a very important question to ask Mr Hall upon a subject to which none of tho representatives who have yet spoken have referred, except Mr Turnbull at Timaru. I want to aak_Mr Hall whether the Government can do anything with regard to the introduction of a conscience clause into the Education Act, and the fixing of tho election of school committees at a time when persons in tho country can attend. [Hear]. Mr Hall —As regards tha latter part of Mr Cunningham’s question. I only say that I entirely sympathise with him, and tried my best when the Bill passed through the Legislative Council to get the time ot the election of committees altered, falling as they do just at harvest. But I was mot by members from other parts of tho colony, who pointed out that this was legislation applying to all parts, and that their harvest came at the time proposed by mo to be inserted in the Bill. I did not quite understand the first part of the question. Mr Cunningham—ln the old Canterbury Provincial Ordinance power was given to tho committee to introduce the conscience clause. Mr Hall —Speaking as Mr Hall, I sympathise with Mr Cunningham, and I havo never made any secret of my opinion; but whan one joins a Government, one must adhere to tha policy which that Government advocates. Tt is not the intention of the Government t> introduce the alteration as proposed. An Elector—Last year land owners had to pay half a year’s land tax, and when tho property tax came in a fall year’s tax was charged, bo that we had to pay twice on onr property. I should like to ask Mr Hall how this was. Mr Hall—lt is quite true, as the gentleman asking tho question has said, that tha land tax and property tax overlapped each other by one quarter. It arose in this way. It was resolved in 1879 to increase the Customs duties at once, but it _ was found necessary to postpone tho coming into force of the property tax. Therefore it was considered that as property-holders had got the benefit of tho postponement of the property tax, and tho nonholders of property had increased Customs duty to pay at onco, it was only fair that the former should pay fsr the period for which the loud tax overlaps the new. Mr Miln —I wish to ask Mr Hall about another question, viz., the extension of our railroad system to tho West Coast. You have condemned Mr Mscandrew’s speech in no measured terms. Now, there ia an agitation going on at tho present time for a railway to the West Coast to be constructed by a company. Will your Government support this project, and havo another railway tacked on to us, and pressure brought to bear on tho Government to make them take over a half finished railway, though tho prospectors had obtained largo grants of laud. Would your Government be

prepared to support the giving of large advantages to the promoters of the railway ? Mr Hall —I havo stated that tho Government will consider favorably this proposal to connect the East and West Coasts, and to 'assist the projectors by grants of land if possible in the vicinity of tho line. I think that answers the question. Mr Lockbrad—l don’t quite understand tho question of tho taxing o( the English bondholders referred to by you in yonr address, though it horrified you Mr Hall. How is it when I borrow money from England that yon tax mo upon it ? Mr Hall—l don’t understand your question. Mr Lo:khcad—l borrow money from England, and you make me pay a tax ou it. Why should you not be horrified at taxing me as well as the bondholders? Mr Hall—lf you borrow money from England, and state that yon will pay a fixed interest for it, you must do it if you are an honest man. Wo havo borrowed money in England, and agreed to pay 4 per cent, or 5 per cent , or whatever it may be. If wo deduct anything from this sum, we are breaking our bargain with onr creditors, and thus depreciating tho credit of the colony. [Cheers.] _ ... Mr J. McLachlan —There 5s a question with regard to tha working of tho Property Tax Act which I should like to ask yon, Mr Hall. I noticed some time ago that tho Hon. Mr Tollemache paid in a largo sum of money under the Property Tax Act, though ho was not bound by law to do sc. I should like to ask Mr Hall if ho does p.ot think it necessary that a clause should be inserted in the Act compelling thoso who are not perhaps so honest as Mr Tollemache to pay the tax ? Mr Hall—The case of tha Hon. Mr Tollemache was a peculiar one. Ho had made arrangements whereby lie could, if he liked, escape the tax. but it is not bo with all absentees. Indfed, lam informed that absentees pay property tax on property in the Wellington district alone to the amount of more than a million. There is no doubt that a defect exists in tho Act, and I should like to see it dealt with. , . Mr Frankish—Will the Government assist us to destroy these birds which havo been introduced by public money. Mr Hall-Tho Government has not, so far as I know, given any money to introduce birds. They have dsno so for the introduction of salmon. Mr Frankish—Then there is no chance of the ('• ovornmont assisting us to destroy these birds? Mr Hall—l am afraid, in tho present financial position of the colony—[Roars of laughter]._ An Elector— How is it that so largo a portion of the land fund has been devoted to the Taranaki Harbor Board. Mr Hall—The reason is this : tho Government had no option in tha matter, aa an Act passed some five or six years ago enacted that 25 per cent, of the proceeds of tho sale of land in that locality should be paid over to the Taranaki Harbor Board. It is tho law cf the land, and we are advised that we must carry it out. An Elector—Cannot tha Government get the Act repealed as well aa others ? Mr Hall —Parliament could repeal the Act, no doubt, but tho Taranaki Harbor Board_ have borrowed £200,000 on tho security of this endowment, and wo should have to pay this £200,000 if we repealed the Act. An Elector asked Mr Hall whether the Government intended to introduce a new Bankruptcy Bill next session ? Mr Hall— Ihe question of a new Bankruptcy Bill has been very fully considered and reported on by a Committee of both Houses ; but it is a question whether time will_ permit_ of the Bill being passed during the coming session. Mr Gammack—Can you tell ns whether under the provisions of the Election Petitions Act, in the case of an election for two districts, such as Sir George Grey for the Thames and Christchurch, a choice of feats could be made as in England ? Mr Hall—l don’t think th- t point is dealt with in the Act, but 1 am only speaking from memory. An Elector —I should like an explanation ot the reasons which led the Government to offer lump sums for bonuses te local industries, instead of paying a percentage, as recommended by the committee on local industries. Mr Hall—The Government considered that the principle of guaranteeing a fixed percentage would be very unsatisfactory. They believed that if producers were left to depend on their own exertions, assisted by a bonus, the result would be far more satisfactory. [Hear, hoar.] In renly to further questions, Mr Hall said, generally speaking, that ho did not think a school committee should have power to dismiss a master without the concurrence of the Board. The Government did not intend to buy the railways to which grants of land, as referred to, might have been made. The time token up in discussing the various measures in Wellington was so great that he did not think it probable that any amendment of the Education Act would bo undertaken. The Government, in order to reduce as much as possible tho cost of education without impairing the efficiency of the system, had decided that no allowance should he made for children under five years of age attending the schools. Be would not be favorable to the abolition of the Boards of Education, and the establishment of a central Board at Wellington, as it was not desirable that the superintending body should be located at such a distance as Wellington. So far as could be seen tho expression of opinion throughout the colony was adverse to the imposition of school fees. Mr J. McLachlan moved the following resolution — ‘‘That this meeting thank the Hon. John Hall for his very able address this evening, and take this opportunity to express their confidence in him aa their representative in Parliament, and their great satisfaction at the high position he has been called on to fill with so much advantage to the colony.” Mr Miles seconded the motion, which was pnt and carried unanimously amid lond applause. Mr Hall said he desired to thank them most heartily for the patient manner in which they had listened to him, and for tha very flattering resolution which they had just passed. It was always a source of deep gratification to a member to feel that he retained the confidence of his constituents, and to receive from them, as he had that evening, so warm an assurance of that fact.

A vote of thanks to the chairman concluded the meeting.