GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Globe, Volume XXII, Issue 2020, 14 August 1880, Page 3

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

[per pbbss association special wibb.J LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Fbiday, August 13. In the Legislative Council, The Hon.' G. M. Watebhouse gave notice to move—" That in the opinion of thiß Council the Now Plymouth Harbor Board should_ be called upon to refund the land fund receipts they have spent contrary to law, and that failing a refund the members Bhould be proceeded against individually to recover tho money." The Hon. N. Wixson gave notice to move —" That the 'Hansard' reporters should be called upon to furnish a correct transcript of thoir notes of the debate on June 4th, on the stock inscription, and which had been suppressed in 'Hansard.'" A motion was carried for the production of all correspondence relating to the Waipa land dispute. The Hon. G. M. Watebhouse stated that unless the Government were prudent in this matter the never ending trouble on the West Coast would he transferred to tho East Coast, He advised tho Government to acquire tho disputed land for £3OO or £4OO under the Public Works Act and restore it to the Natives. Ton notioeß of motion were postponed to Wednesday. The Debtors and Creditors Act Amendment Bill was read a second time. The Crown Grants Act Amendment Bill and Inchclutha Act Amendment Bill were read a third time and passed. A number of small Bills were dealt with in Committee, and a large amount of minor business disposed of. The Council rose at 4.45.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Eeiday, August 13. The House resumed at 2 30 p.m. QUESTIONS. All the questions set down on the Order Paper were postponed at the suggestion of the Government until next sitting day. THE BAIIWAY COMMISSION. The adjourned debate on going into Supply and Mr Pyke'g amendment on the Railway Commission was resumed by Mr Wbight, who said he was perfectly well aware that he would have a very heavy task indeed if he undertook to convince all disappointed members that the labors of the Commission were fair and impartial. Referring to the Otago Central Railway, he said that most of the members of the Commission were disappointed in finding how very little the interior of Otago had to justify railway construction. All the recommendations of the Commission had been unanimous, both in that and every other instance. The Commissioners condemned a scheme Btrongly advocated by the late Premier ao well as one advocated by the present Premier. Then again they condemnod a project in which the chairman of the Commission himself had long taken an interest, Damcly one of tho proposed Nelson lines. In making their estimate it was necessary for them to ascertain whether tho land would warrant the cost proposed; that was whether it was land

like that between Newmarket and Riverhead, which would hardly carry a beast to the square mile, or like that between Wanganui and Hawera, which would carry a beast to tho aero. It had been stated to the House that tne cost of working the Dunedin station for a certain period was £909, while the cost of the Ohristchurch one was £I2OO. That was a wilful peryersion of the truth, as the fact was that the guards were included in the one case and not in the othor. The Commissioner of Railways found out the truth soon after the statement was made, but took no steps to correct his misstatement. He feared that this same officer had misled the Minister for Publio Works in more instances than this. Mr Seddon had charged the Commission with not having taken any evidence in Hokitika, but that was not the case. The question of the divergence of the railway line from Hokitika to Greymouth was gone thoroughly into. He had heard of rotten boroughs, but in Westland he had seen such boroughs for the first time, and these were the places they were complained against for not having recommended railway communication. When they arrived at Greymouth the magnates of the place were not prepared to give evidonce. The next day, however, they took what evidonce they could get up to 11 a m., He denied that they ever attempted to delegate their authority in that place to others to take evidence. It had also been stated by tho member for Rodney that they had never visited that district at all. After tracing their movements in that locality, he went on to say that, on making enquiry as to whether thoy could get through to that particular district,they were told that it was quita impossible, even although they were to attempt it on their hands and knees. The proposal to make a railway to Wangarei wbb about one of the maddest projects ever heard of, as the district was supplied with splendid water carriage—in fact, they had seen quite enough to justify the conclusions at which they arrived. Mr Sheehan had complained that the report was calculated to revolutionise the Works Policy. Ho looked upon that as ore of the highest compliments that could be paid to their labors. It was that Public Works Policy which required revolutionising and unless it was revolutionised it would be a bad thing for tho colony. Mr -Gisborne had talked about the Commission scouring the country. It was not necessary that they should have proceeded at a snail's pace to ascertain what thoy required. Certain members had condemned the work in anticipation, particularly the member for the Dunstan. Before the report came down he and others had condemned it. He (Mr Pyke) had oharged them with ruralising when they were in his district. He could recall the fact of some travelling theatrical company being in the district at the time, and when they enquired as to tho whereabouts of that hon. gentleman they found that he was starring tb e Vincent county with tho prima donna of the troupe. Charity, they say, begins at home, and he would leave the House to judge how far oharitable intentions had to do with the proceedings of the hon. gentleman and the prima donna. The Commissioners had gone through tho Hindon gorge, a portion of the route proposed for the Otogo Oentral line, and yet the tact was that the Engineer-in-Chief had never been through that gorge himself. Ho mentioned that to show that thoy had dono thei best to do every possible justice to the work. After making every possible enquiry he had come to the conclusion that it would be better for the colony to make a present of the whole district to any company that would undertake to make the line, rather than that the colony should go to the cost of the work itself. Referring to the Wellington and Foxton railway, he said that in dealing with this question the member for Rangitikei spoke on the subject as if the shortest route to his own door was all that had to be considered. He apprehended that there were other questions to be kept in view. They had to consult the interests of the Hawke's Bay district. All the benefit y that it would be to Foxton was that 'it would save them a distance of thirty miles. Now it would pay the Government to carry the products of the Foxton settlers free'6f dhargo rather than incur the responsibility of that route. The country between Masterborl and Woodville was worth all the line of n <¥oju.ntry between this and Foxton. It had been attempted to throw discredit on the evidence of Mr Fraser, but he believed that Mr'Frkser's evidence was thoroughly honest. They had used their own observations, and they found that what he stated was strictly correct. Then again the evidence they got from Mr Fraßer was confirmed by Mr Stew art, tho Government engineer. The value of land on the Masterton-WOodville line was about equal to that of four to one of the other, i He was not at all astonished that young and inexperienced members should do "things thoy would not otherwise do were it not to set themselves right with their constituents. But for an old ard experienced statesman like Sir W. Fox to do so was utterly disappointing. Then, again, the line was complete to Masterton, and they could very well direct further traffic on to that line, so as to make it pay better than it was doing. He was disappointed with the Public Works Statement. Had the report been adopted in its entirety it would have been much better. Ho was afraid that the Minister for Public Works laid too muoh stress on the coal measures of the country and too little on tho agricultural interests. Tho statement, to his mind, showed the overruling influence of the engineer for the Middle Island. In support of that view, he mentioned the Otautau to Nightcaps line, and Lumsdento Maraoa. Both of those were worthless works compared to others in the district recommended by the Commission. The secret was that those two lineß were favorite projects with tho engineer-in-chief for the Middle Island. The two lines whioh ought to have been made were the Riverton-Ore-puke and Edendale-Fortrose. Theße were lines whioh would have 'paid, whereas the payable prospects of those provided for were very doubtful. He again referred to the Otogo Central. Tho first estimate of the cost of that line to Cromwell was £600,000; next year thoy got nn estimate for the same work, carrying it on to Albert.on, IS miles further, of £1,100,000. His | estimate, however, was that it would not be short of £1,500,000. Now he cantended that they would not be justified in incurring such an expense Bimply to open up 212,000 aores of land, for that in reality was the main contention in its favor. Ho thought that the Minister for Public Works had not sufficiently explained many of hie proposals,. He mentioned the very large Bum of money proposed to be spent on the Kawakawa line. It was tho more necessary that they should have had explicit information as to the data of this work, seeing that a distinguished member of the Executive was personally interested in the work. The estimated cost by Ms Blair of the Greymouth harbor works was £600,000, and judging from the character of the estimates made by that gentleman in connection with other works the probability was that the cost would be very much more. He took it that that expenditure was wholly unjustifiable. Again, there were wharves at Wellington, Bluff and Foxton which were in excess of the requirements of theeo places. It was high time that this recklessness should bo checked. The Commissioners recommended that the railways should be removed from political influence. They had Btrong evidence of the necessity for that. If no better scheme could be devißed, he was in favor of allowing all employes to share in the profits, that was ovor 4 per cent. He vontured to say that an arrangement of that kind would have the effect of bringing about a great reform in the economic and efficient working of the lines. If tho motion was carried it would reflect more upon tho House than upon tho Commission. The House adjourned at 5.30.

EVENING- SITTING. The House resumed at 7 30. THE BAILWAY COMMISSION. Mr Babbon quoted from the report of the Select Committee re the Otago Central Railway to show that the report of the Commission was in error. A few weeks ago some of the poorest land in the district, mere hill tops, had been sold at 20a per acre. Mr Macandbew said that thoy had as much of their loans available just now as would enable them to go on with all the lines undertaken, and carry them on to 1832. He did not consider that the opinion of the Commission was in any respect better than that of any other member. His own opinion, so far as Otago was concerned, ought to be of greater importanco than that of a gentleman who simply made a hurried run through the district. The mistake made by the Commission was that they wore guided by the existing population. His contention was that if the country was fit for eottloment it was fit for a railway, and population was bound to come. The Shag Point I line was mentioned aB an unproductive line, for whioh the Government had paid £17,000.

That was altogether wrong. The cost was £3200, and tho money was paid not by the Government but by the Coal Mine Company. That line had paid very well; over 150 tons of coal went over it daily, and it had saved the Government thousands of pounds per annum in the supply of coal for locomotive purposes. He agreed that the new wharf at Wellington was a mistake, but he imagined that the depression would not last long, and that the wharf would yet be linod with shipping. Replying to the charges made against himself by Mr Saunders, he undersDood the ground of his offending was that he had left a number of railway carriages exposed to the weather, and that serious charges had been made against himself for having spent money needlessly for the purpose of building sheds for railway carriages. Tho evidence of the Civil Service Commission was, when looked into, of very little worth. It was given in many instances by discharged servants and others, who had personal or perhaps political bias, and he for one was quite prepared to boar such contumely. Reverting to the Otago Oentral line, he said that they had abundance of evidence in favor of the lino, more than would overtop that by the Railway Commission. Ho agreed with the resolul ion, and he could not well see how any hon. member could dissent from it. The invidious comparison that had been made betwoeu the working of the Dunedin and Christchurch stations were but very small affairs. Tho reference to the railway guards he did not quite understand, but he supposed it must have been a mistake on the part of the officer who furnished the data.

Mr WsiOHT explained that the Government had furnished the Commission with particulars of all proposals for railways before commencing its duties. The Hon. R. Oiivbb read the following telegram from the Commissioner of South Island Railways, Mr Oonyers : " Dunedin, August 11th.—Hon. Minister for Public Works, Wellington—Mr Richardson stated in the House that I had deliberately altered tho figures representing the cost of working the Ohristchurch and Dunedin passenger stations. This I positively dor.y. Every return or statement supplied is, so far as I have the means of knowing, correct. The accountant first supplied me with the cost of working the stations, both having been prepared in Christchurch. The Dunodin Manager was oalled upon to correot the Dunedin one. He said that the accountant had included all the employes on the station master's pay sheet including shunters, level crossing keepers, guards &c, not oonnected with the working of the passenger station. The manager's correction was telegraphed, his veracity being undoubted. After my return the accountant was telegraphed direct to from Wellington for his figures, and ho of course roplied the same aa he had sent me. This accounts for the apparent discrepancy.—(Signed) W. CONFESS." The Hon. E. Riohabdbon said he would not have mentioned the matter had he not been challenged to name a case of inaccuracy on the partjof the Commissioner. Mr Satjndebs Baid that despite what had been said to the contrary he did not place implicit confidence in the investigation made by Select Committees. Royal Commissions were different. They were carefully selected for their special fitness for the work, and they were enabled to go about and see for themselves that what was stated was correct. He was much struck by the remark made by the member for Coleridge, when he stated that the recommendations made by the committees invariably went in the direction of works in which some big man was specially interested. He could nob imagine how a Commission could have been selected with more care than the Railway Commission, and he looked on their report as more disinterested than the recommendations made by any Select Committee, any Civil servant, or yet any Minister of the Crown. Mr Bbandon said that the evidonce taken by the Commission was at variance with the judgment given by these gentlemen. Captain Colbeck described the report as a most unjustifiablo one as regarded the North of Auckland Railway. Mr Johnston spoke in favor of the Wei-lington-Foxton line, contending that it had been sanctioned by the House, which, therefore, virtually affirmed the principle that Wellington was entitled to have two railways. Ho considered that the Commission had gone outside its proper funotions. The impression was gaining ground that the Government was treating this part of the country most unfairly, and he confessed he thought there was good ground for the impression. Mr Tjttndon would support the report, as from his knowledge of the North he thought the report a fair and honest one. The Hon. Major Atkinson referred at some length to the calculations as to loan expenditure mado by Mr Johnston. He had listened with pleasure to the speech of the member for Coleridge. He did seem to impute to the Government blame for entering into a contract for the Kawakawa line and reducing the freights on the Waikato line. That statement marred the effect of an otherwise good speech. The Kawakawa was an agreement with the provincial Government, and the present Government had to take up the engagement. The hon. member was not justified in imputing wrong doing in the matter Bimply because the Attorney-General had had some connection with the company years ago. He had no doubt but that the recommendation was wise, and that neither directly nor indireotly had the AttorneyGeneral anything to do with it. Generally speaking tho report was a valuable one. Dike others, he waß disappointed that the line between Stratford and Waverley had not been recommended. Still he was not one who would say that tho Commission had not given the matter that careful consideration which would warrant them in setting the report aside. He hoped they would see their way to reject the motion of the member for the Dunstan by a large majority. Tho Commission was appointed with the full approval of the House. There was not a single objection to the Commission, and yet this resolution was condemnatory of tho Commission. In that case the House would simply be condemning itself. The Commission had only done the duty they were appointed to do. If any one was to blame it was the Government, by whom thoy were appointed, and the resolutions ought properly speaking to be directed against the Government, and not against the Comi mission.

Mr Montgomeby said that the members of the Commission were most respectable gentlemen of experience, who worked hard in the worka devolving upon them. The member for Coleridge was an expert, and from him above all other men, a reliable report was to be looked fpr. He could not understand how the House should think about passing a vote of csnsure upon such men. If there was anything wrone, it was not the Commission that was to blamo but tho Government by whom they were appointed. He expected a different Public Works Statement from the one they had got. They knew that money was scarce, but still they expected something more than a mere string of memoranda. Begftrding the sum on hand for Native land purchases ho ventured to say that there was no such intention on the part of the Government to Bpond that money on Native lands. What wbb intended was to keep it over, and next session, when they wore about to go to tho country, that money would be a very neat sum to have at their baokß. The Hon. J. Hall moved that the debate be adjourned. The motion for the adjournment of the debate was carried on a division by 34 to 21. CHABITABLE AID BILL.Major Atkinson moved that all the other orders of the day be adjourned, so as to allow them to bring on the Hospitals and Charitable Institutions Bill. Mr Pxkb objected. He said that he had already charged tho Government with not being able to lead the House. He now charged them with misleading the House. The debate just adjourned would be brought up again and kept on all day on Monday. Major Habeis said that the Government ought to have time to consider their position and to allow them to see whether they could face the House any longer. This debate would be renewed, and then the public estimates would come od when the Government was, as usual, aßleep on the benches. Tho Houso divided. Ayes—37. Noes—27. Mr Shebiian moved the adjournment of the Houbo. Ho said that the work they were attempting to do was absurd. They had baen sitting thero since eleven o'clock, and the committee work was going on at the same time. Such a state of matters had never been attempted in Parliament before. Mr Shepheed supported the adjournment. Mr Pi-KE asked the Government to say what they really meant to do. They sat there and did not seem to know what thoy were about. The position was a most extraordinary one.

The motion for the adjournment was lost on a division by 32 to 33. Mr Shrimski hoped that the Government would give in now that they had only a majority of one. He had been there till three o'clock this morning and back at eleven o'clock this morning. It was much too severe. No one man could stand it. Mr TtfHNßUlili said it was quite evident that no business would be gone on with that night. They had better adjourn. Mr Seddon said that the Government had promised to adjourn at twelve o'clock. It was now only ten minutes to twelve, and what could they possibly do in that time ? Mr Bunny moved that the debate be now adjourned. He was a supporter of the Government, yet he told them that with their majority of one they would be able to do nothing. Mr Reeves was sorry to see tho humiliating position of the Government, and did not believe it had precedent in parliamentary experience. He hoped that the Premier would show that he bad some good common eor.se left. Mr Hamlin said that he was not a supporter of the Government, but the conduct of tho hon. gentlemen opposite led him to give them his support. The motion for the adjournmsnt of tho debate was put and lost on the voices. The House went into Committee on the Hospitals and Charitable Institutions Bill. After roading the first two clauses the Hon. J. Hail moved that progress be reported, and at 12.20 the House adjourned.