GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Globe, Volume XXII, Issue 2017, 11 August 1880, Page 3

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

[PBB PEBSS ASSOCIATION SPECIAL WIHB.J LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Tuesday, August 10. In the Legislative Council, The Diseased Cattle Proclamation Bill, the Crown Grants Act Amendment Bill, and the Otago Road Rates Validity Bill were read a first time. The Ashburton County Council Waterworks Bill was read a second time. On the motion for the second reading of the Malvern Water Race Transfer Bill, it was pointed out that the measure, though called a private one, contained powers which should only be in a public Bill. The Bill was therefore postponed. All reports from Sir J. Goode as to harbor works were ordered to be laid on the table. The Hon. N. Wilson gave notice that he would move for a return of all moneys Sir J. Vogel had received from the colony since 1869. Mr Taiaeoa sent in a petition asking to be allowed to give evidence re his disqualification. The Hon. N. Wilson gave notice for the appointment of a Committee specially to consider Mr Taiaroa’s case. The Disqualification Committee reported that after examining the law they found it necessary, on a member becoming disqualified, that the Council should pass a resolution to that effect, and communicate it to the Governor. The report was ordered to be considered next day. The Hon. Col. Whitjiobk gave notice to ask why the rule of appointing discharged civil servants to vacancies in the public service had not been followed in appointing a bailiff at Napier. The Hon. E. Whitaker communicated officially to the Council the coming change of Governors, He stated that Sir H. Robinson had made arrangements for a lengthened stay, and was sorry to go, but could not decline the request that had been made to him. He was sure that hon. members would regret the Governor's departure, for the relations between him and Parliament had been most amiable. He believed that Sir A. Gordon, who was now on a cruise among the islands, might shortly be expected. The Hon. Colonel Whitmoeb asked the Hon, P. Whitaker to make a statement as to public business, so that the Council might bo guided in its action for the rest of the session, and not be debating Bills to fee ultimately dropped. The Hon. P. Whxtakeb said he could add nothing to what had been said in the Lower House on the previous day. The Public Health Act Amendment Bill, Oamaru Waterworks Act, 1875, Amendment Bill, and the Invercargill Drill Shed Site Bill were read a third time and passed. The Hon. P. Whitakeb gave notice to bring in a Bill to amend the Debtors and Creditors Act. The Council rose at 4.40.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Tuesday, August 10. The House met at 2 30 p.m. PETITION. Mr George presented a petition from the residents of Great Barrier Island, I praying that the subsidy for a steam service be continued, and that a resident J.P. be appointed. NOTICES OF MOTION. Mr Seddon gave notice that he would ask if Government intended introducing a Bill this session to reduce the salary paid to all future Governors. Sir G. Grey gave notice that he would ask if the Government intended making any provision in the supplementary estimates for volunteer corps who, on the faith of a continuance of the capitation allowance, had incurred liabilities for uniforms, &o. Mr Bain gave notice that he would ask if any report had been received from the Royal Commission appointed to enquire into the circumstances attending the death of John Wilson, a prisoner in the Invercargill gaol. Mr Maoandbew gave notice that he would move that a new clause be added to the Native Lands Sale Bill, affirming the principle that an equal number of Natives be associated with the Waste Lands Board in ) dealing with the Native lands question. ' The Hon. Major Atkinson gave_ notice that he would move that for the remainder of the session the Speaker leave the chair on going into Committee of Supply without the necessity of first putting the question. THE GILCHRIST SCHOLARSHIP. Mr Bowen asked what stops the Government propose to take to give effect to the offer made by the trustees of tho Gilchrist Scholarship of £IOO per annum, tenable for three years, to tho candidate who passed best at the London University Matriculation held in New Zealand. The Hon. W. Rolleston was glad that opportunity had been given to refer to this matter. Recently a communication had been received from the authorities _ in England that the’ scholarship in question had been opened for competition, and examination papers had been received, and would have to bo sent home as soon as the examination could bo held. It was somewhat unfortunate that the notice should be so short, but it could not be helped, and the.offloial notice would appear

in the next “Gazette.” The value of the scholarship was £IOO per annum for three years, and would be held upon condition that the holder goes home to England and attends either the University of London or Edinburgh to prosecute the study of law for medicine. Ho hoped that short as the notice was, it would bring some one of the young men of the colony to the front. PRODUCTION OF EVIDENCE. Mr J. B. Fisher applied to have the evidence taken by the Select Committee produced in a case now pending before the Supreme Court. The Hon. J. Hale said that as this was likely to establish a precedent of some importance, it was right that the point should bo carefully considered. Mr Kelly objected to the evidence in question being produced. It was given by witnesses without being put on oath. He pointed out that it would be an easy matter for the Court to compel the attendance of a witness and have him examined on oath. Mr De Lautode thought the remarks of the last speaker liable to lower the tone and worth of the evidence given before these committees. Ho could conceive nothing worse than to have it go forth that these investigations in committee were not reliable simply because the evidence was not taken on oath. The Hon. G. McLean said that the Committee took evidence that would not be allowed to be given in a Court of Law. The result would be, if this motion were carried, that evidence would be imported into the proceedings before a Court of Law that could not otherwise be imported into such proceedings. Under the circumstances he would vote ugainst the proposal. Mr Bowen thought that applications of this kind should be remitted for inquiry to Committees, and each case decided on its own particular merits. Mr Pitt quoted a Parliamentary authority to the effect that evidence of this sort was entrusted to the proper officer who could produce it in Court. The Hon. E. Richardson opposed the granting of leave. The motion was negatived on the voices. QUESTIONS. Eeplying to the Hon. B. Richardson, The Hon. E. Oliver said that there was no truth in the statement in one of the Christchurch evening papers of yesterday, that a new office had been created in Dunedin viz., that of Assistant Paymaster on Railways. Eeplying to Mr McDonald, The Hon. J. Beych said that £6OO, being a year’s salary, had been paid to the widow and children of the late Judge Young. Replying to Mr Tole, The Hon, T. Dick said that a report had been received from Mr Mackie, veterinary surgeon, relative |to the alleged pleuro-pneu-monia disease in the Waikato District.

Replying to Mr Hutchison. The Hon. W. Rolleston said that Government has had its attention directed to certain proposals for obtaining land on deferred payments, made by the men employed at road works on the Waimate Plains, and that the land would be opened for selection by everyone, but Government did not intend to deal with these proposals in any special way. Replying to Mr Swonson, The Hon, J. Hall said that at this late period of the session it would not bo possible for Government to take any action with regard to the petition of certain leaseholders in Auckland, praying for the restoration of the franchise. They would consider the question carefully during the recess. NEW BILLS. The following Bills were introduced and read a first time A Bill to declare and explain the trusts of the Auckland College and Grammar School endowments and for other ’imposes (Mr Tole) ; the West Coast (North Island) Bill (Hon. J. Bryce); the Thames and Waikato Railway Bill (Sir G. Grey), Replying to questions put, The Hon. J. Hall said that the Local Industries Commissioners’ Report was in the hands of the printer, and would be before the House in a day or so. The Hon. Major Atkinson said that the Beer Duty Bill would be brought down in a few days. MOENINQ SITTING. The Hon J. Hall gave notice that he would move that the House at its rising adjourn till to-morrow at 11 a.m., and at its rising at 2 he would ask that it adjourn till 7.30, to allow of members attending the funeral of Mr Hunter, some time ago a member of this House. Sir G. Gbby spoke in favor of the adjournment. BILLS DISCHARGED. The following Bills were discharged from the order paper—Town District Fisheries; Education Reserves Amendment; Public Entertainments Prohibition; Cemeteries; Pire and Marine Insurance Companies; Gaming and Lotteries; Hawkers and Pedlars ; Peace Preservation. THE PHAEMACY BILL. The amendments made by the Legislative Council on the Pharmacy Bill wore agreed to on a division by 44 to 25. LOCAL GOTEENSIBNT. Mr Tuenbull resumed the debate on the motion for going into Committee of Supply. Mr Lundon moved the adjournment of the debate. Mr Moss, speaking to the question of adjournment, blamed the Government for attempting to suppress the question of local administration, but cautioned them that the outside public would not be so easily silenced. The Government sat there day after day doing nothing more than the work which should bo done by an undersecretary, while the House was discussing large and important questions. He only desired to raise a debate that would tend to guide public opinion. He would rather withdraw his motion than see it go to a division on a silent vote. He had brought the matter forward altogether free from party feeling, and he could only regret the very poor reception it had met with at the hands of the Government and its supporters. Mr Swanson contended that the proposal was unworkable. If a commission was to be appointed they ought to have been appointed out of the House. He was very glad that the motion was going to be withdrawn, despite the strong feeling he had on the question of local self-government. The Hon. T. Dick said that had the Government entered into the debate they would simply have been encouraging an endless debate, out of which nothing could possibly come. It would be necessary that they should first ascertain that this was the wish of the people ; after that they would have to get something definite and not indefinite proposals put before them. That that was the opinion of the House was evident from the fact that in the debate the motion was left altogether out of the question, and other matter debated. Mr Reeves said that this was one of the most important questions of the session. They saw the Premier come down that day and withdraw a number of Bills upon which they had wasted a lot of time. He could compare them to nothing more than a fortyhorse power engine driving a mangle. He had no wish to see a return to provincialism, but he contended that some better provision was required for local government. Referring to the public works statement, he denounced it as a perfect abortion —a jumble up of figures of which any fourth-form school might be ashamed. Mr Pyke said he did not know but what a return to provincialism would be better than to go on as they were going. He saw nothing so very objectionable in the motion. He wanted to know what the Government thought about the matter. He asked the Government to lead the House, but it did not. They saw the extraordinary sight the Opposition members going into the lobby the other night to save the Government from its own friends. _ The Hon. J. Hall said that the Government had endeavored to lead the House in really practicable measures. The Opposition, however, had done its best to impede that progress. Mr Sheehan said that abolition had been a failure. Half of the time of the House was taken up discussing parish business. They had just seen a number of important measures slaughtered, while their time was being occupied with questions of roads and bridges. He did not think they could go back to provincialism, but they could do this - they could adopt a modified system of provincialism, and thereby relieve this House of a deal of business that v as not only keeping the really useful business book, but was actually demoralising the House. There had been an unfair distribution of public money. Really needful districts were to get nothing, and other districts were to get more than their fair share. There were a number of most important works for which no provision was made in the Public Works Estimates. Among others he instanced

the Thames-Waikato railway. They were told that there was no money for these works, but, he could tell them where money was to be got if they were at all honest in looking for It. There was a liability against loan of over £1,100,000 for Native land purchases. Now, they were going to abandon these purchases so that fund would be available for public works purposes. Reverting to the motion of the member for Parnell, ho said that while he did not think that the motion would be carried, still he felt that something was needed to relieve this House of the burden thrown upon it by abolition. The Hon. W. Gisborne was disappointed with the character of the Public Works Statement. He had expected to see a document with a broader grasp of the subject, and one which dealt more fairly with the different parts of the colony. The debate was interrupted by the 5.30 adjournment.

EVENING- SITTING-. The House resumed at 7.30. IIOCAII GOVBBNMENT. The Hon. W. Gisboenh resumed the debate. Ho argued in contradistinction to the report of the Railway Commissioners, that it would be more advantageous to carry the line by the West Coast than to continue the lino by way of Maaterton and Woodville. He would be in favor of the railways being sold to a private company, believing that in the hands of such a company they would be much more economically and otherwise better managed. In that case he would apply the proceeds of these lines to a redemption of the public debt. He next alluded to the injustice proposed to be done by the Public Works proposals to the gold mining industry on the West Coast of the Middle Island. If a valuable gold field broke out on that coast, as there was every indication, it would bo of incalculable benefit to the whole colony. He would, therefore, say, be prudent, be economical, but at the same time be enterprising and be liberal where liberality and enterprise were deserved. The Hon J. Ham said that it could not be said that the West Coast had been unfairly treated when the documents before them showed that a sum of £1,300,000 had been spent in the district. When they considered the expenditure to which the colony had become accustomed, they were not astonished to find that they have to retrench, and that the statement would be received with disfavour. What was urged on them was to shut their eyes and go ahead. It was not denied that there were breakers ahead, but what they were counselled to do was to go on, and all would come right. That was not the policy of prudent men. It was a financial crisis through which they were passing, ard he did hope that members on the opposite side of the House would assist them in the emergency. They were told that it was not a statesmanlike Public Works Statement. Had it scattered money broadcast then it would have been a statesmanlike production. But he would contend that it was a thorough statesmanlike document. It dealt with the question of the unemployed, and it also dealt with the question of how the railways were to be made to pay. He contended that these were subjects in all respects statesmanlike. They had prepared the material for revising the railway tariff, and so soon as they were relieved from the cares of Parliament they would at once proceed to elaborate these proposals. They were in that position when they must not only provide for the current year, but in consequence of their inability to go into the money market till 1882, they had to finance up to that period. It had been suggested that as they had a certain amount of money to spend they should spend it at once. That was the course followed some years ago, hut after it was done they found the appetite for railway works increased. It was their aim to bring back the colony to its normal state. In doing so they were exposed to unpopularity and discomfort, and if they consulted their own popularity they would abandon their seats to those who were less scrupulous. In following that course they believed that the time would come when their services in that respect would be fully recognised. Before sitting down he wouldrefer to the remark made by the member for Cheviot, He had described Mr Blair’s letter as disgraceful. There ho differed from his hon. friend. What Mr Blair showed was that these waggons had not been made by contract, for which he was responsible. He believed that his hon. friend had done a great injustice to a valuable servant, and he could not agree with him in the conclusion arrived at.

Mr Satjndebs aaid that the report itself simply left the blame upon the dual system, and there could be no doubt that he (Mr Blair) was responsible for the slovenly way in which these waggons were turned out. Mr Babeon hoped that they would not borrow any more money for the payment of interest on loans, and that they would be enabled to trust to the internal resources of the colony. He believed that there were districts in which railways could be constructed by means of setting apart large tracts of land. He mentioned the North Taic-ri railway as a case in point. He hoped that their desire for economy would not lead them to under pay the railway employes, to whose care and attention the lives of hundreds of people were entrusted. The motion for going into Committee of Supply was put and carried on the voices, no division being called for. THE ESTIMATES. Class 10.—Vote Mines, £22,850. The Hon. R. Olivee, in the course of a discussion, said that there was an intention on the pait of the Government to redistribute the portfolios, end that the mining interest would receive more attention than had been given. The item was reduced £l5O, and the balance passed. Class 11. —Vote Railways, £608,918 4s Bd. The Hon. R. Oliver proposed to reduce the item £47,889. Mi- Hutchison enquired if no attention was to be given to the report of the Civil Service Commission in dealing with this vote on the question of reduction. Mi- Speight asked if it was meant that cleaners set down at 6s 6d and 6s per day were to be reduced ten per cent. The Hon. E. Oliveb replied that they did not undertake to make ten per cent, reduction on every item. On some they might make more and others less. In reply to a question put by Mr Andrews, The Hon. R. Oliver said that they were not at all likely to require any more engines for some years. Mi- Hubst said that in the North they had railway workshops, and he could not see why it was that railway carriages, even although they cost a little more, should not be made in the colony. The same thing would no doubt apply to Dnnedin. It was a pity that the colony could not retain this class of labor within itself.

The Hon. E. Eichaedson pointed out that on some sections wages were set out at per day and others at per week or per year. This rendered comparison difficult. He saw a large item for stores, and would like to know whether stock had been taken lately, and whether, if so, the value could be stated. The Hon. E. Ohvbb said that stock had been taken lately, but he regretted that he could not at the moment state the value of the stock on hand. He still more regretted to state that within the last week the AuditorGeneral had discovered a very serious deficiency in the store account, one amounting to nearly £IOO,OOO, since the initiation of the public works policy. He might add that no charge of misappropriation was,, made against any particular officer, but the matter was being inquired into. Mr Shbimski could not understand how such a discrepancy could have occurred if there were an annual stock taking and balance. Mr Stevens thought that a full enquiry should be made into the matter, and the result made known to the House before it rose. The Hon. B. Omveb said that the matter had been brought under their notice by the Auditor-General, and he was waiting further information. These deficiencies had accumulated from 1871. Eeplying to Mr Hurst, The Hon. B. Oliveb stated that the material sent out from London had not, as had been stated, proved to any very groat extent defective. The item as proposed to be reduced was passed. Architect’s office, £1485. Mr Baebon moved that it be reduced £485. The item as printed was passed. Government Domains, £ll9l 4s, The item was carried on a division by 34 to 14. Public Buildings, £20,585 ; agreed to. Inspection of Machinery, £I9OO ; agreed to. Progress was reported, and the House adjourned at 1.5 a.m.