GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Globe, Volume XXII, Issue 1996, 17 July 1880, Page 3

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

[PBB PBBSS ASSOCIATION SPECIAL WIBB.] LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Fbiday, July 16. In the Legislative Council, The Bank of New Zealand Act Amendment Bill was read a third time. The Sydenham Borough Council Empowering Bill, Bluff Harbor Foreshore Leasing Bill and Invercargill Drill Shed Bill were read a first time.

Returns were ordered, on the motion of the ] Hon. Dr. Pollen, of the number of voters ( under qualification, and the amount of license t fees received in each distriot during the last i three years. e The Hon. G. M. Watbkhouse asked the Attorney-General whether the Government 1 had any power to stop the representation of a i play about the Kellys about to be played in j Wellington, as had been done by New South t Wales, on account of its injurious moral 1 effect. The Hon. F. Whitakeb said he should t like to stop the piece, but the Government i had no power. t The Hon. J. T. Peacock moved that j Councillors should not take the honorarium ( this year. In speaking at some length to the j motion, the mover said he believed that the < present depression was not temporary, but i deep rooted, and the Council might set an ex- j cellent example to the country. j Sir F. D. Bell and the Hons. Scotland, Col. i Brett, and Mantell opposed the motion, which i was rejected by 29 votes to 1. 1 In moving for the printing of an education 1 return, the Hon. G. M. Watebhouse alluded t to the vast disparities between the cost of i education in different districts, and also the i great difference in cost of working central - Boards. The cost per child was £8 a year, | and the total cost was a fifth of that of England i for education. He pointed out several ways I for large retrenchment in the costs of education, i On the motion of the Hon. F. Whitaebb i the debate was tdjourned. The Rabbit Nuisance Bill was recommitted : and further amended, and the Council rose at i 4.35 p.m. i HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. \ Fbiday, July 16. , The House met at 2.30 p.m. new bills. , The following Bills were introduced and read a first time :—ABhburton County Coun- , cil Waterworks, Malvern Water Rice , Transfer. QUESTIONS. Replying to Mr Whitaker, The Hon. J. Bbycb said that Mr White first commenced his labours in reference to the compilation of the Maori history in 1835. £562 had been paid to him as sixteen months' salary, but when the work would be completed Government had no idea. Replying to Sir G. Grey, The Hon. J. Bbycb said that some correspondence had passed between them and Mr Amos Burr in relation to claims of Natives to land on the Waimate Plains in the Taranaki district. Sir W. Fox asked the Government whether, in reference to the " spurious vouchers " mentioned in the report of the West Coast Commissioners, page 34, they are prepared to take action by moving that the subject be referred to the Public Accounts Committee to report to this House on the following points—(l) Who is responsible for the appropriation of the Bum of £2OOO, which having been obtained on imprest for a specified service was expended on an entirely different service ; (2) who is responsible for the preparation and signature of the vouchers in a form calculated to mislead the financial officer of the Land Purchase Department and Auditor-General, and for the suppression of the sub-vouchers, which if produced to those officers would have exhibited the actual application of the money; (3) how the Waimate Plains purchase, or ' takoha' account, which now stands charged with the expenditure represented by such spurious vouchers, may be relieved of the same, and to what other account that expenditure may and ought to be charged." The Hon. Major Atkinson replied that, without expressing any opinion as to the rights or wrongs of this expenditure, Government thought it would be desirable that a thorough investigation should take place, therefore they would he prepared to furnish all tho requisite vouchers for having the accounts bo investigaied by tho Public Accounts Committee. Mr Hamlin asked, without notice, if the attention of the Government had been called to a dramatic representation entitled, " Tho Kellye," advertised to be produced in tho ■ Theatre Royal, Wellington, to-morrow even- ', ing, and if so whether or not Government l intend to interfere for tho prevention thereof. i He said it would be within the knowledge of , most of the members that a representation of I that kind had been suppressed by tho police 1 in Sydney. } The Hon. J. Hall replied that the attention of the Government had been called to J the matter. They disapproved of auch re- . presentations, but had no power to stop theca j or that course would be followed. In Sydney e some special Act must have existed for the 2 purpose. Government, however, would be e prepared to submit proposals to tho House, 8 asking for authority to bo given in cases of t the kind in future. ' Replying to Mr Fulton,

The Hon. W. Rollbston said that to establish sohools on the principle o£ the kindergarten Bohool would involve an expenditure at the rate of £lO per head of the pupils. He would see how the education vote was dealt with in_ Committee of Supply, and be guided in the matter accordingly. For his own part he thought that the benefits were not commensurate with the expense. Replying to Mr Shrimsk'*, The Hon. R. Ohvbb said that Government was not aware that the alleged faultily constructed wagons referred to in the Civil Service Commissioners' report as having been built in the Government workshop, Dunedin, were in reality built at Oamaru years ago, by Messrs Brogden and Son, but a searching investigation would bo made into all the facts of the case.

Replying to Mr Tamoana, The Hon. J. Hail said that the West Coast Commissioners' report would be printed in Maori, but Government had not yet decided as to the propriety of following a similar course with the evidence.

Replying to Mr Barron, The Hon. W. Rollbston said that there was a school established for giving instruction in agriculture in Canterbury. It had a landed endowment of 100,000 acres. It was for the whole colony, and the education afforded was, practically speaking, free. Replying to Mr J. B. Fisher, The Hon. Major Atkinson said that under the Act no bonus would be declared upon policies in the Government Life Insurance Department until the House had decided as to the amount and mode of division.

Replying to Mr Murray, The Hon. Major Atkinson said that Government was in correspondence with the Banks to secure a renewal of the silver currency on the favorable terms offered by the Imperial ourrency. The amount circulating in New Zealand standing in need of renewal was something like £67,000. Replying to Mr Sutton, The Hon. J. Bbtcb said that the building known as the Native hostelry was not the property of the Government. They had a fourteen years' lease of it, which would expire in 1887 ; but he believed the lease could be broken on cither side.

Replying to Mr Ireland, The Hon. W. Rollbston said it was not the intention of the Government at present to amend the Land Act in connection with deferred payment lande, so as to deal with euoh lands under the ballot instead of the auction system. Mr Tolk asked what action the Government had taken, or would take, so as to give effect to the report of the Waste Lands Committee on the 'petitions of Rudy and Thomas H. White, of the Volunteer Force, Auckland.

The Hon W. Rolleston replied that Government saw no reason for extending the time unless in the case of the parties already named. IMPBBST SUPPLY. An Imprest Supply Bill for £250,000 was introduced by message from the Governor, acd passed through all its stages. MB SHBBHAN IN EXPLANATION. Mr Shbbhan stated that certain imputations had been made to the effect that he had attempted to time the departure of the Hinemoa from Auckland, with the members, to suit his own personal convenience. He appealed to Mr Bryce who acquitted him of having done so. Mr Sheehan also complained that other imputations had been made against him in his absenoe, which, when he got the opportunity, he would be quite able to repel. He would take the first opportunity of doing so. MAOBI PBISONEBS BILL. On the motion for the second reading of the Maori Prisoners Bill, Sir G. Gbey asked that a list of the Natives and the crimes charged against the prisoners should be produced. Mr Bbtcb said that a list of the kind had been laid on the table last year, so far at least as the prisoners' names were concerned. The offences were matters of public notoriety. He had no wish for haste, but the fact was that the Act on which these prisoners were detained would expire in a few days, and it was absolutely necessary to proceed with the measure at once.

Sir G. Gbey replied that no such return had been made, and if it was not made the result would be that this debate would be greatly prolonged. Certainly a return giving the prisoners' names was prepared, but not a list of the offences.

The Hon. J. Bhxce replied that the return ; asked for would be prepared and produced in a few hours. In the meantime he hoped that the motion would be allowed to go on. He proceeded to Bay that the condition of affairs , on the West Coast had for the last ten years presented a problem which eaoh successive ' Government had attempted to solve. He , reviewed the proceedings of various Governments down to the present time. When the present Government came into office they found the difficulty waiting for them in an aggravated form. A sum of £55,000 had ' been voted for the opening up of the district by roads, and the late Government left a body of men well trained for the work. The work done by the Government had been highly beneficial, despite what had been said to the contrary. Since the Assembly roso in December last Government had taken the matter fairly in hand. On the one hand Government had shewn the Natives that they were determined to do them substantial justice, and on the other hand they had shown them that they were determined firmly to carry out the work of settlement. Public works of all sorts had been stopped on that coast for years. That state of things was having a bf d effect upon the whole country. Now, however, the position was changed. The road works were going on, and the Maoris had, upon the whole, shown a ready acquiescence. 'She position might be critical, but so far as they could judge there was no real danger. Before tbis House met again he hoped to see hundreds of euoUera estaohshed on these plains. It might bo that.the Natives would interfere, but he hoped not. Returning to the prisoners he said Te Whiti's influence had been going on growing amongst the Natives to such an extent that the Natives now came to regard him as a man endowed with supernatural power. After the removal of the surveyors from the plains the Natives seemed to think' they must do something more by way of asserting their title. Their object was to take possession of the lands which had formerly belonged to them. That was not an ordinary trespass. The difference that divided the line between peace and war was a very fine one indeed. The accidental discharging of a gun might have plunged the colony into a Native war. It mattered very little whether they had been brought to trial or not. If convicted they would not perhaps get more than twentyfour hours' imprisonment for their technical offences. The trial meant nothing so far as the detention of the prisoners was concerned; they would have gone back in a body, and in that case Government would not have answered for the consequences. It would do little harm to allow a few of these men to go back to their district from time to time, but if they were allowed to go back in a body he felt convinced that the consequences might bo serious. There was a fair prospect of the West Coast difficulty now getting settled. Still it would not be a proper time to procipi tate matters in any way. Government thought it essential that these men should not be allowed to go back to their districts in a body. That was what the Bill aimed at, and ho hoped members would pause and consider the consequences before they gave it a very actire opposition. Mujor Te Whkobo said that if they allowed the Bill to pass, next session an application would be made for their further detention, and by that means they would never be liberated. He did not think a proceeding of this kind wbb likely to satisfy the Natives. Ho called upon the Government to allow the trial to proceed if the prevention of a disturbance was aimedat. He could not see but that the prisoners could if so disposed havo created a disturbance when they were arrested. Mr Stbwabt said the effect of "the Bill was to deprive theso prisoners of tho right to apply for a writ of habeas corpus. The position was one involving aorious consideration. These prisoners were charged with an offence which it was absurd to suppose would have entailed the punishment they had already gone through in this lengthened detention. What thoy had done was thiß : They had got possession of a number of men, and thoy had kept them in gaol on some pretext without bringing them to trial. This Bill was, practically speaking, an acknowledgment that theso men had been illegally imprisoned, and ho believed they would have a claim for compensation for injury sustained against the Government. He strongly dissented from the Bill.

Mr Tomoana believed that the Bill, if passed, would have the effect of exciting the

minds of their friends, and they, too, would be guilty of some outbreak. It was a most unfair proposal, and one which should not be listened to. Mr Tubnbull dissented from the Bill. He thought if they would release these men, and place them on the reserve made for them, telling them at the same time that any breach of the peace would result in forfeiture of the reserves, it would have the desired effeot. The debate was interrupted by the 5.30 adjournment. EVENING SITTING. The House resumed at 7.30. MAOEI PEISONKHS BILL. Mr Tubnbull resumed the debate. He said that the Natives had always proved themselves a straightforward people. The safety of the district rested on dealing with the Natives honestly. They had provod themselves a brave people, and we had not treated them as such. It was not yet too late to do them the justice he had claimed on their behalf. Sir G. Gbey regarded the Bill as an unnecessary measure—one which violated almost every principle of law. It was in point of fact, a penal statute—a measure hurriedly conceived, and none of the ordinary precautions or safeguards were enacted. It proposed to inflict penalties on persons who might be innocent. It was different from any other measure ever before the House. It said these persons were to be imprisoned at the pleasure of the Government of the day, and all ordinary means for legitimate escape were to be taken away, and then, at the will of the Government, they were to be cast forth upon the world with a stigma upon their characters, and no hope of redress. Then, again, there was no precise identification of the persons affected, so as to avoid the possibility of any other person being included in the wrong. The name of each person ought to have been inserted in the Bill, but instead of that, the language was vague and indefinite, so much so that any Native might be punished. No Legislature should be asked to assent to suoh a vague measure. What could be more cruel than to imprison a number of men who had been faithful in many respects to Europeans. The proposal was to detain these men so long as the Government pleased, and then they were to be cast loose without any enquiry being made into their case. It was unjust to aßk the Governor to assent to such a proposal. The Governor was the fountain of justice, and this was a proposal to make him the executioner of a cruel law. He would go on when the Premier chose to give him his attention. After a pause, Mr Johnston asked that the mover bo called upon to reply. The Spbakbb, ruled that as Sir G. Grey was still on his legs he had possession of the House.

The Hon. G. McLean rose and said he wished to make a few remarks on the motion before the House.

The Spbakbb ruled him out of order. Major Habbis asked to be allowed to move the adjournment of the House. The Spbakbb refused to allow the motion to be put, and hoped that Sir George Grey would now go on. Sir G. Gbby said he owed a duty to the Native race which forbade him going on until he had received the attention of the Premier.

After a further pause, Mr Brandon said that surely it was the duty of the House to insist upon the member for the Thames proceeding. Mr B. Wood said that a precedent for this proceeding took place some years ago in the House of Commons. A speaker got up and stood on his legs for four hours withcut uttering a word. It was then ruled that the Speaker could either compel him to go on or sit down. The Si'kakek asked the member for the Thames to proceed. Sir G. Gbby replied that he could not proceed until the Premier was pleased to give him his attention. He would remain on his legs till to-morrow morning if he could not get his attention. Mr Macandbbw suggested half an hour's adjournment, so as to give the Premier time to correct his proof of his speeoh. The Spkakeb said that the member for the Thames could move the adjournment. Major Habbis desired to know if all this silence would appear in " Hansard," After standing for half-an-hour in silence a chair was handed to Sir George Grey, with which he propped himself upon his legs. Mr DeLautot/b called attention to a Standing Order, and moved that the member for the Thames be allowed to sit down, and yet retain the floor of the House. The Speakee could not see how the motion could be put unless the member for the Thames, who was in possession of the House, gave way, bo as to allow the motion to be put. Mr DbLatttoitb aßked if the member for the Thames sat down until the motion was put, would he lose possession of the House. The Spbakeb ruled that he would.

Mr Kkbves attempted to speak, but the Speaker ruled that he oould not be heard. Mr Johnston contended that the member for the Thames was guilty of contempt, and Huch being the case the House oould deal -with him.

The Speakee ruled that the member for the Thames had not been guilty of contempt. Mr Macandbbw considered it a very lamentable state of things, and thought that now the member for the Thames had entered his protest against the discourtesy of the Premier he should proceed. The Hon. Major Atkinson said that the Premier had not been inattentive to what was going on. He paid close attention and had a complete note of everything that had been said. The attack made on the Premier was a most unjustifiable one. Sir G. Gees' said he saw the Premier engaged correcting the proof of his speech. The Hon. G. McLean held that when a member was standing and not speaking, any other member had a right to correct his speech. Sir G. Obex said it was the custom of all representative assemblies for the Government to pay attention to the speakers, especially on matters of importance like this. Colonel Thimble asked for a ruling as to whether Btanding on hia feet and saying nothing could be ruled a portion of this debate as indiceted by the Standing Orders. Various other members rose to points of order, duricg which Sir Geo. Grey remained propped up on the back of the chair. The Hon. G. McLean rose to a point of order, and moved that the strangers withdraw. He thought it was a pity that strangers should be allowed to see the lamentable exhibition which the member for the Thames was making of himself. Sir G. Gbby asked that the words should be taken down.

The Hon. G. McLean aßked in what way the motion could bo put. Sir G Gbey said that he did not give way to Mr McLean. The Spbakeb ruled that Mr McLean was out of order, stating that the motion could not be put unless the member for the Thames chose to give way.

Sir G. Gbby—l don't give way ; remember that.

The Spbakeb—Will the hon. member give way to me for a moment ? Sir G. Gbby signified that he would. Tho Spbakeb—Then I will resume the chair in half an hour.

The House adjourned at 8.45, Sir G. Grey having been on his feet an hour without continuing his speech.

On resuming, Sir G. Gbby said he hoped that the Premier would give his attontion. The Hon. J. Hall—l assure the hon. gentleman that I have been giving him my attention all along.

Sir G. Gbey—l will not answer that. The hon. gentleman might have said so before thiß. He then went on to ask when the Natives were to be released from gaol. It was subjoet to a provision that the Governor might prescribe any conditions. The prisoners that had never been tried were to be subject to any condition that the G-overnment of the day might impose. They might insist UDon their wearing a particular dress, residing in a particular locality, or any other thing tho Government might think fit. Again, the Government told a deputation of tho Maori members that the prisoners would be tried in January or February. He was quite clear on that point. Ho felt sure that Ministers had assured the Governor that they would be tried at that time. Now the House should not put the Governor in the position of breaking his solemn promise. He had shown that the proposals of the Bill were unjust and opposed to British law and unconstitutional in every respect. Not only did this Government promise that they would bo brought to trial, but tho same promise was made bv the previous Government. He asked them to lay aside all party feeling, and come to a consideration of this Bill like Christian gentle-

men, and not pass a law cruel in its nature upon a olass of men deserving of our encouragement and support. He would say no more on the subject. Mr Tawhai said that the late West Coast Commission were guilty of much trouble, and he could not see that persons guilty of the offences could be judges of the offences. That was the reason he refused, although appointed as one of the Commissioners, to act. The Government had boasted of their bold polioy, but he would like to know how it was to be called a bold policy, when 'they were afraid to liberate a mere handful of prisoners, 130 of them, and allow them to go back to a place where there were 800 soldiers. The fact was that Government was simply doing battle against the word of one man. He considered the action of the Government on the West Coast was simply inciting all the Maoris to rebellion. He did not see one good feature in the whole polioy. What he said was, let the prisoners be tried at once, in order that their offenoes might be investigated, and if they were guilty let them be punished accordingly. He would like to see a clause inserted providing that the trial should take place within three months. Sir W. Fox said the last speaker must have had his mind poisoned by some of those wicked white men by whom he had been misled, and tales instilled into his mind that had no foundation in fact. He charged Sir E. IX Bell and himself with being the original cauße of the trouble. The fact was that when the Becond war broke out he was on his way to England, and when the third war was proclaimed in 1863 he was living in the Rangatikei as a private gentleman. Sir E. D. Bell stood exactly in the same position as himself. The fact was that the last speaker held his seat on the commission for a considerable period. He came down from Auckland at the expense of the Government and then asked for an advance from the Government. That was refused. A tew nights after a letter appeared in the evening papers announcing his resignation before the Government ever heard of it. These were the facts of the case. Ab regards the member for the Thameß, if speeoh was, as it generally was, silver, then they would all agree with him in saying that his silence was golden. He had made a great talk about the professed injustice of this harsh and arbitrary law, and said that there was no precedent for such Acts. In 1863 Sir G. Grey was Governor of the colony, and a law was . assented to by him for the suppression of the rebellion, which instituted a series of court martials. Where were then his specious ideas about the liberty of the subject and all that. Here was a law suspending every man's liberties, and even endangering his life, and placing them, in the hands of a court martial. Some years after they had another and more stringent Aot. Both these were framed to meet the particular circumstances of the day. That last Act actually superseded the Constitution altogether, and yet the member for the Thames stood up and told the galleries that that there never was ouch a wicked Act as the one now before the House passed by any constitutional authority. He had now disposed of both these gentlemen. They had both been drawing on their imaginations for pictures, but what was the real fact. These pictures had no foundation whatever. This was a case suoh as not unfrequently occurred, a case in which it was necessary to adopt extraordinary precaution for the general safety. Had the late Government not gone out of office they would have been in a war. Statements, at all events, had been made to that effect. Now he would ask if it was only the Natives that were to be considered. Were they to have no consideration for those settlers whose lives and properties were at stake. Te Whiti, he believed, was very glad to be relieved of the presence of these prisoners. He did not want them to be tried. He said they never would be tried. He believed that the Government would have the satisfaction of rooting out all vestiges of the rebellion, but the work would have to be gone about carefully and prudently. One false step might plunge the colony into a war. Such being the case, he asked if it was to be mere feelings of sentiment by which their actions were to be controlled. He did not

like the Bill, but then they had to face the urgent necessity that existed for it. That was what they had to consult, and not a mere feeling of sentimentality. He congratulated the Government on the activity and good sense that had actuated them in the conduct of the West Coast difficulty. He extolled the semi-military officers in command of the plains, and expressed implicit faith in the conduct of delicate affairs entrusted to their direction. The constabulary were likewise to be congratulated on the able and efficient services they were rendering. Referring to the ploughing operations, he said that he did not believe that active hostilities were contemplated. Had the negotiations with Te Whiti been conducted with earnestness and activity, he believed that all this trouble might have been saved. The circumstances connected with these negotiations convinced him that there was no hostile intention whatever on his mind. There was a section of the Preaa that did its utmost to hamper the Government. One of these was a leading newspaper, and that paper went to the expense of keeping a correspondent there. Now, if the instructions given to that newspaper correspondent had been to pick up every item of intelligence for which there wbb not a particle of foundation, then that correspondent discharged his duty with the utmost assiduity. They all knew about that remarkable individual and his story about a gigantic swamp. He would not charge that individual with being a false fabricator, he would rather describe him as a small-minded individual, who was hoaxed by every gutter tale that went about. The result was sensational and unfounded telegrams, these telegrams misleading the newspapers and confounding the public.

Mr Sheehan said that this was not a party question, but the last speaker made it a strong party question. He charged Sir W. Fox with having hunted down Sir Donald McLean. He wanted also to hunt him down, but he would have to be up pretty early in the morning. Sir W. Fox had told them that ho was on his way home when the war broke out, but the fact was he left the war behind him. Te Whiti had at last found an apologist. He could not have found a more fitting one than Sir W. Fox. They were both fanatics, they were both unfair and ungenerous. The characteristics of the hon. gentleman were these : if a newspaper spoke in favor of him there was nothing too good for it; if it went against him it was a mean trifling print unworthy of his notice. He intended to vote for the second reading of the Bill. In that Bill they were carrying on the policy! of their predecessors. Secondly, if he were Native Minister he would just have brought down a similar measure. If a war broke out at the present time it would ba a war of extermination, and he thereforo held that this was a Bill for the benefit of the Natives themselves. What, however, he contended for was that, although it might be desirable to keep them twelve or eighteen months, when they were liberated they Bhould be liberated by trial. If they were found innocent and compensation deserved, let them have a chance of obtaining it. They had no right to be liberated without a trial. He believed they would be found guilty of a minor offenco. If they allowed these people to return there was every prospect of war. He knew Te Whiti was not disposed to peace. He was in the background at present, but the reason of that was that none of his prophecies had como to pass. If they wanted to destroy his power they would just do as they were doing. He would support the Bill, and in Committee move an amendment in the direction he indicated. Mr DeLautoue could not agree with the last speaker. He believed that the West Coast Commissioners had been induced to look for the cause of the difficulty in a different diroction, dictated by their own political bias. Ho agroed in the opinion expressed that this matter should not be dealt with as a party question. There were two principles in life, the expedient and the right, and ho contended that they should choose the right, even although the heavens should fall. There was no reason why a short period of detention should not be provided for, but to ask power to detain them for a whole year was asking far too much, and the House should not agree to it. He would be found voting against the Bill, and would not allow it to be Baid that such a measure passed with the unanimous voice of the House. He recognised the good services of the West Coast Commission, still he believed that thoy had not got at the root of the legal question on the confiscation. They Bhould have stated that they refused to hear the lawyers retained by the Natives. Mr Readeb Wood said that Sir G. Grey was quite right in laying that no such law as this was ever brought before an independent

Legislature under such circumstances as those now existing. The Act of 1866 wag passed in time of war, when an engagement was actually fought twenty miles from Auckland. There was no comparison between the circumstances thenandnow. In considering the question he simply asked would it pay the Natives who .were imprisoned to fight. They had not wanted to make war or they would have done so. They had simply tried to make their case heard, and adopted the moßt peaceable method open to them to insure this. The Government were now proposing to punish the Natives for the faults of successive Governments. Waß anything more monstrous ever heard of ? An armed force was required to complete the West Coast survey and an armed force at a CDst of £200,000 a year would be required to protect any settlers who might be placed on the road. The colony could not afford it. The question was not a paity one, it was one of money. Unless the Natives would acoept their reserves, and allow us without an armed force to occupy the remainder we had better stop at once where we were. We could not afford to go on. Keeping these men in prison was likely to cause reprisals and far more danger than could result from their release. The balance of reason was in favor of the measure for mercy, for whioh the member for the Thames contended, and he would not vote for the Bill.

The Hon. Major Atkinson said that the blot on our Native administration was that we had always treated the Natives as children. We were not afraid of them, bet we respected them, and were afraid of anything which might lead to their extermination. If this Bill were thrown out it would mean war, and he would not remain an hour longer in office. It was not true that the Natives had been forced to the ploughing to prove their rights. Was it not known that the late Premier had sent two messages to Te Whiti ? Sir G. Gbey—l never sent any message to Te Whiti.

Major Atkinson said he would prove it on a future occasion. To be more precise he would suy that the late Goverment offered to bring the Native case before a court of law, and to pay the costs. The late Government went even beyond the limits of prudence in that offer, but Te Whiti set up an independent authority, and all his actions went in support of that position. For himsolf he believed that to have used force of late years would have involved war. The day had actually been fixed when the pakehas were to be driven into the sea. We had only escaped a great misfortune by the bareat chance, and he warned the House that the release of these prisoners meant war almost to a certainty. What they are required to do is to do justice and maintain the law. He believed that the House would do justice, but it would be madness to do justice by returning desperate men, suoh as they had in prison, to the district. If they could see their way to return these Natives, they would be only too glad to do it. What did the fencing across the road day by day mean ? That had a meaning, and it would be well for them to study it. The circumstances in 1869 were not a bit more critical than they are at present. As men charged with the peace of the country, he had no hesitation in saying that it was quite possible they had not asked sufficient power. He did not know how soon the followers of Te Whiti might resort to temporal in lieu of spiritual means for the attainment of their ends, and that would mean a very serious state of matters. He felt the responsibility so great that if he could leave the Government without any loss of credit he would do it.

Mr Moss would vote against the Bill as it stood.

Colonel Tbisible briefly supported the Bill, and then Mr Hall moved the adjournment of the debate. The House rose at 1.30.